Did Sears ever sell Plomb WF rats?

[RubiconJK]

Here's what I could find in newspapers. Paper date and location in the title of each pic. A search in conjunction with "Sears" produced no relevant results.

Thanks Todd.

Searching on "SR" and "S.R." is mind-numbingly difficult, as you can imagine. I have tried it before to no avail. But Twertsy worked some of his google-fu magic and found a 1950 newspaper ad for an "S.R. SOCKET SET" that he shared with me this morning. It is part of a larger ad with other tools and such from a no-name hardware store. The figure of the set is blotchy. Maybe he'll post it later. Or I'll see if he's busy and post it for him.

Yes it is! Spent a couple hours scouring the web again last night on this to no end.

 

[r_olson_06]

Here's what I could find in newspapers. Paper date and location in the title of each pic. A search in conjunction with "Sears" produced no relevant results.

O wow there is socket boxes!!! I would say this is the biggest development in a while on this front. Well done sir, well done.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[JoCoSawdust]

What if (and this is just conjecture on my part), Plomb sweetened the pot with Sears while negotiating the Craftsman Circle U contract(1944-1948) by offering up a bunch of surplus, but previously unmarked WF drive tools for Sears to do with what they wanted? Sears, not wanting to be responsible for warranty on these tools, wouldn't want them marked in a traditional manner and might have not sold them through normal channels, but instead sold them in bulk to another reseller in a part of the market that wouldn't cannibalize sales of Craftsman tools? Again, just a theory to offer up for consideration.

That's my best guess as well Rubicon and like you, I have nothing to back it up. I think it makes sense as a cheap way for Sears to burn up their stock of NB sockets as they were phased out.

 

[RubiconJK]

That's my best guess as well Rubicon and like you, I have nothing to back it up. I think it makes sense as a cheap way for Sears to burn up their stock of NB sockets as they were phased out.

I don't think I've seen any of the S.R. drive tools that looked like New Britain though. I think there is no doubt they were Plomb made.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I don't think I've seen any of the S.R. drive tools that looked like New Britain though. I think there is no doubt they were Plomb made.

While I find the conversation about the S.R. mystery fascinating, it has nothing to do with my original proposal that Sears used unmarked Plomb WF ratchets in their midget sets at one point in time. I see it going down like this:

SEARS: Damn we have a metric **** load of NB 1/4" sockets we've got to dump. We have enough open gear NB rats to use in the tool sets but we don't have enough to stock the midget sets with ratchets.

PLOMB: Well we'll sweeten the Circle U deal by throwing in some old WF 1/4" ratchets.

SEARS: Can you put "Craftsman" on them?

PLOMB: That'll cost extra.

SEARS: No thanks, we'll take them as the are.

Win/win for both companies.

OR....some artist for Sears was tasked to draw the new midget sets, didn't have a Circle U rat to look at, knew they were coming from Plomb, looked at a Plomb brochure and drew a WF rat. I find that doubtful as at least two NB midget sets have been spotted in the wild with an unmarked WF rat in it. The biggest issue I have against that theory is that I can't find a distinctly Circle U midget set in the round corner clam shell case in any catalog. One thing I'm sure of, we'll never know for sure.

 

[r_olson_06]

While I find the conversation about the S.R. mystery fascinating, it has nothing to do with my original proposal that Sears used unmarked Plomb WF ratchets in their midget sets at one point in time. I see it going down like this:

SEARS: Damn we have a metric **** load of NB 1/4" sockets we've got to dump. We have enough open gear NB rats to use in the tool sets but we don't have enough to stock the midget sets with ratchets.

PLOMB: Well we'll sweeten the Circle U deal by throwing in some old WF 1/4" ratchets.

SEARS: Can you put "Craftsman" on them?

PLOMB: That'll cost extra.

SEARS: No thanks, we'll take them as the are.

Win/win for both companies.

OR....some artist for Sears was tasked to draw the new midget sets, didn't have a Circle U rat to look at, knew they were coming from Plomb, looked at a Plomb brochure and drew a WF rat. I find that doubtful as at least two NB midget sets have been spotted in the wild with an unmarked WF rat in it. The biggest issue I have against that theory is that I can't find a distinctly Circle U midget set in the round corner clam shell case in any catalog. One thing I'm sure of, we'll never know for sure.

Sorry sir. I have a tendency to go on a tangent.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[JoCoSawdust]

No apology necessary and hope I didn't come off as being an ***. I was just trying to clear up that I wasn't implying that S.R. tools were made by New Britain. I'm as curious as everyone else as to what the heck the S.R. indicates. I hope the conversation keeps going!

 

[Username already in use]

There are a couple of Craftsman BE series 1/2" drive sets on ebay right now that look mostly complete, both with unbranded Plomb WF series ratchets.

Ebay item # 223510158174

Ebay item # 372681401115

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Yeah I saw one of those. It's a head scratcher. I don't see any catalog illustrations depicting a WF rat in larger drive sizes but I think it's impossible to know everything going on at Sears in the post-war push to modernize. Those set could be purely coincidental or they could have been assembled that way and never depicted in the catalogs. I want a time machine!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

FWIW, for me, the 1/2-inch drive sets that pop up with all NB pieces and unbranded Plomb WF series ratchets actually lend more credibility to the theory than additional examples of 1/4-inch drive sets with unbranded Plomb WF ratchets, regardless of the catalogs. Because (a) I am still not completely sold that the catalog image of the midget rat in question is a Plomb, and (b) whether the 'use wartime surplus until obsolete' approach originated with Sears, Roebuck & Co or Plomb, there is no good reason why the idea would've been only confined to one drive size.

EDIT: To be fair, and completely objective, it is a can of worms that keeps opening wider and wider, because it does make me wonder why, by the same token and theory, we don't see sets that are brand-mixed further than just ratchets. While Plomb, like most mfgrs, sold pieces (sockets, handles, extensions, etc) individually and in sets, I find it problematic that they would've been left with that much more surplus of ratchets than, say, flex heads, for example, or extensions, etc. The production I think would've been relatively balanced. But we don't seem to find an unmarked Plomb WF series flex head or an unmarked Plomb WF series extension in Craftsman sets loaded up with mainly NB BE or Circle-H pieces with the same frequency - if at all.

Just thinking out loud, obviously.

 

[Username already in use]

I find it problematic that they would've been left with that much more surplus of ratchets than, say, flex heads, for example, or extensions, etc. The production I think would've been relatively balanced. But we don't seem to find an unmarked Plomb WF series flex head or an unmarked Plomb WF series extension in Craftsman sets loaded up with mainly NB BE or Circle-H pieces with the same frequency - if at all.

This set needs come cleanup, but it came with mixed BE an (H) sockets, Craftsman (U) ratchet (Plomb made) and an unmarked extension. The box has the square corners and is identical to the NewBritain and post war Plomb boxes that I have.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Interesting points Lugz and yes I think there's no end to the mysteries of that era of Craftsman. Unaiu, yet another interesting mixed set!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

That's a cool set, Unaiu, and it might make me remove the 'if at all' qualifier, but I am less convinced by the Circle-U rat than I would be an unmarked WF series rat that it was factory that way instead of cobbled later.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Lugz, are there other examples of unmarked WFs showing up outside the possible Craftsman connection?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you mean solo, yes. I would say more often than in Craftsman sets. But others can weigh in on that. But mainly if not exclusively ratchets.

 

[d42jeep]

My unmarked ratchet in post 5 was a solo.
-Don

 

[Rileysan]

FWIW, for me, the 1/2-inch drive sets that pop up with all NB pieces and unbranded Plomb WF series ratchets actually lend more credibility to the theory than additional examples of 1/4-inch drive sets with unbranded Plomb WF ratchets, regardless of the catalogs. Because (a) I am still not completely sold that the catalog image of the midget rat in question is a Plomb, and (b) whether the 'use wartime surplus until obsolete' approach originated with Sears, Roebuck & Co or Plomb, there is no good reason why the idea would've been only confined to one drive size.

EDIT: To be fair, and completely objective, it is a can of worms that keeps opening wider and wider, because it does make me wonder why, by the same token and theory, we don't see sets that are brand-mixed further than just ratchets. While Plomb, like most mfgrs, sold pieces (sockets, handles, extensions, etc) individually and in sets, I find it problematic that they would've been left with that much more surplus of ratchets than, say, flex heads, for example, or extensions, etc. The production I think would've been relatively balanced. But we don't seem to find an unmarked Plomb WF series flex head or an unmarked Plomb WF series extension in Craftsman sets loaded up with mainly NB BE or Circle-H pieces with the same frequency - if at all.

Just thinking out loud, obviously.

We have no insight into contract negotiations or manufacturing numbers but maybe it's as simple as NB not being able to provide enough ratchets to meet Sears sales needs, and Plomb, having expanded their manufacturing capacity during the war, was able to immediately ship product.

Judging by the short-lived relationship between Sears and Plomb, I would imagine the two corporations couldn't agree on a long-term contract.

Brian

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Agreed. Although I think part of that brevity might be attributed to a different approach by Sears. While NB can viewed as a primary and, for a brief period, exclusive supplier of socket drive tools, Sears did experiment with several non-exclusive suppliers early (Hinsdale, Snap-on, NB) and again in the late 40s (NB, SK, Plomb), but went to an exclusive supplier in Moore Drop Forge thereafter.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Another one of these popped up on eBay. Everything BE except the rat.

 

[Semi-hole mechanic]

I have the remnants of my dad's 1/2 drive set from the 47 catalog. The breaker and speeder are both original long c circle h marked. They are the only pieces that I know for certain are original (other than the box).

 

[Bamacruiser98]

Came across this thread and found it interesting. I came into a huge tool lot from three generations, one of which men I’m pretty sure worked in an auto plant up north. This set was amongst that lot.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Came across this thread and found it interesting. I came into a huge tool lot from three generations, one of which men I’m pretty sure worked in an auto plant up north. This set was amongst that lot.

That’s a nice set!