Ok to hardwire a range/oven?

[frankd]

Just wondering if there could be any potential safety issues with hardwiring a 240v range in the kitchen. I'm replacing one that was hardwired and it would be easier and cheaper to just hardwire the new one. The wiring is in good shape and I'm guessing that the current wiring was installed with the last range (~10-15 years ago). Looks like 8/3 romex on a 40amp breaker.

I think NEC says that it needs to be wired as per the instructions on the range...which say to use a 3 or 4 prong range outlet.

Installing an outlet would just be a pain because of where the wire is protruding from the drywall so I'd need to cut open the drywall and because I'm **** I'll need to tape/compound after reinstalling the drywall.

So I'm leaning towards just hardwiring it but wanted to make sure there are no safety issues before I do so.
Thanks!

 

[rlitman]

Installing an outlet is not a pain. Just get a surface mount one.

 

[frankd]

Installing an outlet is not a pain. Just get a surface mount one.

ok, maybe not a "pain" but because of where the wiring is protruding from the drywall I would need to cut out a decent sized section of drywall.... and because of where the current wire is, that piece of drywall that I remove can only be re-fastened on one side as the other wall stud is behind the cabinet. Not a big deal as the taping will hold everything together and it's behind the stove anyway. But if I can just hardwire it I'm saving an hour of my time and $30.

So back to the original question, any safety issues or other concerns with just hardwiring it?

 

[ripperd]

you can use scab some 1x or 2x or anything really to provide support for the other side of the drywall. Just hold the piece in place, put some screws through the existing drywall into the scab. Now you have a backing spot to attach that side of the new drywall to.

And if the drywall is behind the stove, there is no need to fix it all pretty. I also vote outlet.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

if the current one is hardwired then what is the issue here? just wire in the new stove and be done with it.

 

[frankd]

if the current one is hardwired then what is the issue here? just wire in the new stove and be done with it.

That's what I'm saying! It's easier, it's faster, less connections, so less potential failure points. I see no reason not to. I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Now I'm not trying to be a ****... I do appreciate all the feedback...but I never understood why when someone posts a question on a forum everyone else has to chime in with non-answers. I'm not asking whats hard or easy. I've been doing drywall work since the mid 90's. I just want to know if there are any safety issues or other concerns with hard wiring the range.

 

[rlitman]

...I just want to know if there are any safety issues or other concerns with hard wiring the range.

Nothing big that I'm aware of. I'll admit to having hard wired a few. I just prefer plugging them in. It makes it easier to slide the range out and disconnect it for cleaning or service, but it isn't technically necessary.

Also, the range cord will use finely stranded copper that folds up nicely behind the range. The hard wired version will be a much stiffer wire that you have to wrangle as you slide the range in.

If you're just looking to save a few bucks, then save the bucks, but I find the plug to be so much more convenient.

 

[frankd]

Nothing big that I'm aware of. I'll admit to having hard wired a few. I just prefer plugging them in. It makes it easier to slide the range out and disconnect it for cleaning or service, but it isn't technically necessary.

Also, the range cord will use finely stranded copper that folds up nicely behind the range. The hard wired version will be a much stiffer wire that you have to wrangle as you slide the range in.

If you're just looking to save a few bucks, then save the bucks, but I find the plug to be so much more convenient.

Thanks...i'm on the fence. I know the plug is the "right way". and I dont really care about the $30 after spending so much on the range. its really just convenience for me. I need to get the range cord at lowes 20 miles away but it looks like they dont have the plug in stock so I then need to go to home depot. Then need to deal with the drywall.

But I think I'm just going to do it the right way to avoid any potential issues down the road. thanks

 

[rlitman]

To be fair, hard wiring it is not the "wrong way". Lots of people do it that way. But then you've got to shut the breaker, etc.

What part of the Island are you on that's 20 miles from Lowes? (maybe don't answer that)
Anyway, this is the surface mount option from HD:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-50-Amp-Thermoplastic-Power-Single-Outlet-Black-5050/202066671

edit: did I mention that the softer wires of a proper range plug are also easier to get into the connections in the back of the range.

edit2:
Here's the Lowes part:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Black-50-Amp-Round-Industrial-Range/4064012
Every Lowes I look at on the Island has them in stock.

 

[dledinger]

You need to have a disconnecting means, which is why they have plugs.

 

[Norcal]

If the range is hard wired a breaker lockout installed on the circuit breaker supplying it will serve as the disconnect.

 

[ddawg16]

Thank God we are not talking about PVC airlines.

Hardware the ***** and call it done. It's not like you plan to pull it out on a regular bases.

My oven is hardwired. I have messed with it twice. Once when I installed the first oven....again 17 years later when I replaced it.

 

[dledinger]

If the range is hard wired a breaker lockout installed on the circuit breaker supplying it will serve as the disconnect.

I don’t disagree at all, unless the panel happens to be in the kitchen

 

[u2slow]

This is one of those times where there's many ways to do a quality install, but Code decides on one way.

I just got through wiring up a set of double ovens. All the wires come out of a single length of metallic flex conduit. It asks for a 240v/30a circuit for each oven, and a 120v/15a circuit for the controls. Sorry, not doing cord plugs on this one!

 

[Terry D]

I would say I have seen a couple in my day hardwired. I assume you are talking about a free standing electric range, not a wall oven that goes inside a cabinet. I would not do it if it was mine. The cord and plug attachment allows you to unplug and remove the range out of the way with ease. Plus the jacket on the range cord can take a lot more abuse than that jacket on that romex. Its just the right way to do it in my opinion. I hardwire electric cooktops and wall ovens, just not freestanding ranges

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I would say I have seen a couple in my day hardwired. I assume you are talking about a free standing electric range, not a wall oven that goes inside a cabinet. I would not do it if it was mine. The cord and plug attachment allows you to unplug and remove the range out of the way with ease. Plus the jacket on the range cord can take a lot more abuse than that jacket on that romex. Its just the right way to do it in my opinion. I hardwire electric cooktops and wall ovens, just not freestanding ranges

Cannot use Romex as a whip

the proper way to hardwire a range would be with FMC and THHN conductors.

 

[madison069]

When hardwiring a range, I suspect you have to contain the wire inside an electrical box with a cover to allow the range wires to go through without getting damaged.

Don't do what the previous owner did to my house and just let the wires hangout in the air with the wire connectors exposed under the range top.

 

[Zeke]

Get a gas range, problem solved although you will need a 120v recep.

But seriously, gas ranges are tethered and limit space to pull out so why is flex conduit any more trouble?

 

[Norcal]

Get a gas range, problem solved although you will need a 120v recep.

But seriously, gas ranges are tethered and limit space to pull out so why is flex conduit any more trouble?

Gas ranges are filthy. One of the reasons I took gas out of the rental kitchen.

 

[Terry D]

Cannot use Romex as a whip

the proper way to hardwire a range would be with FMC and THHN conductors.

Sorry if you misunderstood, I never meant that you can use romex as a whip on that kind of application. That would be insane, I've seen it done, definitely not right. We still hardwire our dishwashers with romex. some of the contractors I do work for, wants them on a cord and receptacle attachment. Some Bosch dishwashers come with a cord already installed. Same with disposals, I always install a receptacle and a cord on the disposal. I install a lot of air switches, and they have to plug in. The only proper way, and once again, I mean in my area, is to have a receptacle and a range cord with a plug. Im sure you could hardwire it with Sealtite or greenfield or even the proper size MC cable. And I don't want to start a whole new argument here. Its just not the way we do it here

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Cord and plug is the only way to go for disposals and dishwashers.

NM-b is not proper for dishwashers.

 

[Norcal]

Cord and plug is the only way to go for disposals and dishwashers.

NM-b is not proper for dishwashers.

If a disposal or DW is hard wired a lockout on the circuit breaker or another suitable disconnect must be used. Cord & plug is the best way, EZ disconnect and less for appliance service technicians and plumbers to screw up. Although knowing which wire is the neutral on a flat cord is helpful that is one way they can mess things up.

 

[dledinger]

Hardwired with a switch on the backsplash is how I most often see dishwashers setup these days. I don’t like it, and homeowners don’t understand it.

 

[ddawg16]

Gas ranges are filthy. One of the reasons I took gas out of the rental kitchen.

But a whole lot cheaper to cook with.

Not sure what is filthy about them............

 

[rlitman]

But a whole lot cheaper to cook with.

Not sure what is filthy about them............

I pay some of the highest electric prices in the country, and can't say that a range really registers on the electric bills here.

Natural gas certainly isn't filthy, though propane can soot a little if set up wrong. NG ovens create moisture that may or may not affect your cooking process. In particular, it makes dehydrating things not so effective in comparison to electric.

Sealed gas tops can be difficult to clean if they're poorly designed (i.e. flat). If they're recessed enough so that the surface stays cool, they clean MUCH more easily than ceramic topped electric ranges.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Gas ranges are filthy. One of the reasons I took gas out of the rental kitchen.

I will take a gas range and gas oven any day over electric.

Cant stand electric cooking.

But please explain to me how gas ranges are filthy. Im really lost on that one.

But if you dont like gas cooking, perhaps you would fit right in, in Berkley, who just passed an ordinance banning natural gas service to new buildings. They said down the road they they would ban it in existing buildings as well, making people rip out the gas lines and replace gas appliances with an electric one.

they created a new position on the city payroll to enforce this monstrosity @ $275K yearly salary.

So stupid

Many professional chefs on social media were complaining about it.

But a whole lot cheaper to cook with.

Not sure what is filthy about them............

yes a lot cheaper to cook with. and ive never noticed them to be filthy.

I pay some of the highest electric prices in the country, and can't say that a range really registers on the electric bills here.

Natural gas certainly isn't filthy, though propane can soot a little if set up wrong. NG ovens create moisture that may or may not affect your cooking process. In particular, it makes dehydrating things not so effective in comparison to electric.

Sealed gas tops can be difficult to clean if they're poorly designed (i.e. flat). If they're recessed enough so that the surface stays cool, they clean MUCH more easily than ceramic topped electric ranges.

what are your electric rates?

 

[rlitman]

...what are your electric rates?

Between the cost of the electricity and the transmission/distribution and everything else, it works out to roughly 21 cents/kWh on Long Island (i.e. that's what I get if I take the total on my bill and divide out by the usage).

 

[alfredeneuman]

in Berkley, who just passed an ordinance banning natural gas service to new buildings. They said down the road they they would ban it in existing buildings as well, making people rip out the gas lines and replace gas appliances with an electric one.

Aah Berkeley.
In their haste to ban non polluting natural gas appliances and replace with electric ones they didn't consider that the neighboring States, which supplies 60% of CA's electric grid, still use some coal fired generating plants. Stupid indeed!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Between the cost of the electricity and the transmission/distribution and everything else, it works out to roughly 21 cents/kWh on Long Island (i.e. that's what I get if I take the total on my bill and divide out by the usage).

thats the same rate Profit, Gouge & Execute (Pacific Gas & Electric Co) charges their customers FOR THE FIRST TIER USAGE.

It goes up steeply after that in the next 2 tiers.

Have to somehow pay for all those fires they caused!

Aah Berkeley.
In their haste to ban non polluting natural gas appliances and replace with electric ones they didn't consider that the neighboring States, which supplies much of CA's electric grid, still use some coal fired generating plants.
Stupid indeed!

Exactly!!

 

[Norcal]

Aah Berkeley.
In their haste to ban non polluting natural gas appliances and replace with electric ones they didn't consider that the neighboring States, which supplies much of CA's electric grid, still use some coal fired generating plants.
Stupid indeed!

And Berkeleys ban is going to spread too. More cities are looking at doing the same thing.

 

[alfredeneuman]

All of the Public busses in LA, OC, and San Diego Counties have big decals on them that say that they run on CLEAN NATURAL GAS

 

[Zeke]

This topic might be wandering OT but I can't fathom electric heat even in the mild SoCal climate. All electric homes were a so called marketing feature in the 60's around here and they were a fail. Cost a fortune utility wise. I think the POCO and some builders got together and realized a cost saving in piping a house when iron pipe was all there was.

I have have a modest 90 year old home that has been upgraded in many respects including insulation, new wiring with AFCI breakers, and new plumbing both supply and waste. Many of the operable windows have been upgraded. 1300 sq. ft. and we are in the 3rd tier electric wise every summer month and December. We have a gas range plus an electric oven, gas heat and gas water heater. I pay .34 cents/kWh now and I can't imagine what my near $300 elec bill would be with all electric.

Berkeley politicians (with apologies to the moderator) are nuts. If they do that here I will pirate in a propane tank even if it doesn't save that much money. What are the Berkeley folks gonna do next? Ban BBQ's (both charcoal and propane)?

Back on topic: Cord and plug here for DW and GD. Only way to fly. I have seen hardwired many times and ripped it out. The only excuse I could give for not using a 140v plug on a range that has an oven and at least 4 burners and possibly a halogen plate is the contacts from the prongs to the recep. I'm sure they don't oxidize very quickly but once the neutral contact gets iffy, that becomes a serious problem that people won't notice easily. I've had one issue with an arcing hot in my many years and a few arcing neutrals that were moderately to heavily loaded.

 

[u2slow]

Code picks and chooses some funny things. Take a few steps north of the 49th and it changes. Oh wait, this state and that province opted out of these rules and added these other ones. Step onto a ship and it changes again.

I had a hardwired range in my house growing up. Dryer, dishwasher, and garburator too. I'll hardwire my toaster if I feel like it.

All of the Public busses in LA, OC, and San Diego Counties have big decals on them that say that they run on CLEAN NATURAL GAS

Very debatable. Its claimed to be 'clean' when is replaces diesel. But that may only be the optics from the lack of soot. (Still most of the other combustion nasties.) Direct venting of natural gas (methane) into the atmosphere is wickedly worse than CO2 emissions. But there's no spill to clean up, making it ok?

Its too high a source of greenhouse gasses for power generation. To the point Vancouver BC shut down its local plant.
https://greenenergybc.ca/burrard.html

As for cooking with gas, those unfamiliar tend to underestimate the heat, making more splatter and burning messes. I can see that being really annoying if you're cleaning up after weekly vacation rentals.

No natural gas available here though... exporting it to foreign countries is more important.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Cord and plug is the only way to go for disposals and dishwashers.

NM-b is not proper for dishwashers.

Code thing, or preference? None of my dishwashers have ever had a plug. Always Romex into the junky little JB that is built into the dishwasher.

 

[dledinger]

Cord and plug gives an easy disconnecting means that meets code, makes service and replacement easy.

 

[Norcal]

I am not fond of painting and not everyone uses the hood, if they have one, a open flame is not the cleanest. It has been 24 years since my kitchen was last painted although it is showing it’s age around the sink, still in decent shape around and above the range.

 

[rlitman]

I am not fond of painting and not everyone uses the hood, if they have one, a open flame is not the cleanest. It has been 24 years since my kitchen was last painted although it is showing it’s age around the sink, still in decent shape around and above the range.

You've lost me again. Open natural gas flames don't produce any carbon soot. If you get a mess around your range, it's from WHAT you're cooking NOT what your cooking ON.

 

[gungatim]

I pay some of the highest electric prices in the country, and can't say that a range really registers on the electric bills here.

Natural gas certainly isn't filthy, though propane can soot a little if set up wrong. NG ovens create moisture that may or may not affect your cooking process. In particular, it makes dehydrating things not so effective in comparison to electric.

Sealed gas tops can be difficult to clean if they're poorly designed (i.e. flat). If they're recessed enough so that the surface stays cool, they clean MUCH more easily than ceramic topped electric ranges.

my propane fireplace has some sooting but I think it's cuz the kids threw **** in there when they were younger. my gas (LPG) cooktop isn't any cleaner or dirtier than any other electric cooktop, you're either a messy cook or don't clean up after...

the only thing I dislike about gas cooktops is the fact they de-rated them and you can't get a large burner anymore without going to a commercial unit. the home burners are a joke...i'm on 22 years with my GE gas cooktop, I've found eventually it's easier to pull the sealed burner pans and just replace them instead of trying to clean with oven cleaner. saves a whole lot of headache and for $10 ea, actually cheaper than 6 cans of e-zoff!

 

[rlitman]

my propane fireplace has some sooting but I think it's cuz the kids threw **** in there when they were younger. my gas (LPG) cooktop isn't any cleaner or dirtier than any other electric cooktop, you're either a messy cook or don't clean up after...

the only thing I dislike about gas cooktops is the fact they de-rated them and you can't get a large burner anymore without going to a commercial unit. the home burners are a joke...i'm on 22 years with my GE gas cooktop, I've found eventually it's easier to pull the sealed burner pans and just replace them instead of trying to clean with oven cleaner. saves a whole lot of headache and for $10 ea, actually cheaper than 6 cans of e-zoff!

Propane fireplaces are designed to run dirty (rich), to give you the visual flame. If the combustion was adjusted perfectly, there'd be hardly anything to look at. Plus they are designed to vent out a chimney, so a little sooting is acceptable.

Residential gas ranges are ventless by design, and the blue flame doesn't make soot.

As for a real burner, I LOVE my GE Tri-ring at 20kBTU:

 

[u2slow]

the only thing I dislike about gas cooktops is the fact they de-rated them and you can't get a large burner anymore without going to a commercial unit. the home burners are a joke...i'm on 22 years with my GE gas cooktop

Unreal. When I cook on others' natural gas cooktops the BTUs are usually nuts. We're talking: unstable flame; high; higher; OMG! These are higher end cooktops. You have to find the sweet spot between low and off to cook most things. My good buddy got a more average unit, and runs it on a 20# BBQ tank. Its got more a usable heat range.

Cord and plug gives an easy disconnecting means that meets code, makes service and replacement easy.

If it has a plug, and that arrangement in convenient, I'll probably leave it. I'm the Electrician anyway so isolating or changing a hardwired one doesn't bother me one bit.