Vintage S-K Tools

[d42jeep]

I checked my stash and out of 20 15/16" I have no Cad.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

That is sort of my situation too. Thanks for checking, Roy!
Here are a couple of long and shorter marked and unmarked early S-K 1/2” drive flex handles.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Any time don! Picked up a reproduction decal for it. Could not resist it.

All,
Something has been bothering at me for a long time and I never really followed up on until now, prompted by Otg's repro decal. For years we have tended to think of there being two (2) so-called "Diamond SK" decals: a paper/water transfer version, found on boxes that have been called "early" or sometimes prewar and wartime, and a metal badge version, found on boxes attributed to 1946 or 1947 and later based on AA and other research. The problem with that is that not all of the paper/water transfer decals are the same! There are two (2) distinct designs.

Here are some photos and discussion points...

Pic 1 shows decals on wartime dated documents and decals on toolboxes known to be wartime (dark OD green finish, some of them marked USAAF, containing black oxide finish tools matching wartime specs for 41-W-2615 midget sets). Take close note of the filling inside the letters (very thin) and the shape and size of the two wedges or arrows in the three unoccupied corners.

Pic 2 shows a decal commonly seen on toolboxes with brown crinkle finish. I have a carry box, a tackle box, and an 8mm film container, all brown crinkle, all with this logo. The other image is the reproduction being sold on eBay. Take close note of the filling inside the letters (very thick) and the shape and size of the two wedges or arrows in the three unoccupied corners. They are different, much more intricate and thinner, and spaced differently to each other.

Pic 3 is just for context. It's postwar. Collectors tend to note the difference in the material - i.e., metal versus paper/water transfer, but note that the design is not the same as either the proven wartime decals or the unknown decals in Pic 2.

My main point is that the Pic 2 decals are NOT wartime. My hunch is that they are 1930's. We don't have a 1930's catalog that I know of, but if we can ascertain my hunch with 1930's dated documents (ads, etc) we could distinguish 1930's boxes and sets from 1940's.

Or is this known and someone has already shown this to be the case?

 

[Username already in use]

The logo from the cover page of the '39 catalog looks identical to the logos in your first image.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Agreed. Thanks, Unaiu! (I guess I didn't realize or forgot that you had a 1939 catalog!) That means we can safely date that particular version of the paper/water transfer decal, which we in the WWII community typically call "wartime", to 1939 through 1946. Logic may seem to dictate that the other paper/water transfer decal design (see Pic 2 in my previous post) is earlier and probably the earliest (S-K claimed first use on or about December 1932), but it would be nice to corroborate that, and I have some reason for doubt.

Here is a digital scan of Sherman-Klove's 1933 TM certificate with the USPTO. It is a terrible scan, unfortunately. The scan is either obscuring the corners or there is nothing there. But look at the letters. Clearly the skinny filling, like the 1939-1946 decals.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Thats a great string of posts concerning the differences in the logo. Thanks, that was fun AND educational. I've become obsessed with dating tool boxes so always love finding out details like this.

And I'm off to take a tool box to dinner and a movie.

 

[Outlawmws]

Thats a great string of posts concerning the differences in the logo. Thanks, that was fun AND educational. I've become obsessed with dating tool boxes so always love finding out details like this.

And I'm off to take a tool box to dinner and a movie.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

X2

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is an early 30s decal and a 40s decal (cad 3/8 set). The early decal (black background)is clearly different.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is an early 30s decal and a 40s decal (cad 3/8 set). The early decal (black background)is clearly different.

Same with mine. The black background has the early label as opposed to the others.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Agreed! And also different than the decal I showed in Pic 2 of post #1610, which is the one the eBay guy is making. It's probably a bridge too far to definitively sequence those two early 30's designs, but I am satisfied that we can get the community to at least distinguish now two 1932 to 1938 decals from the 1939 to 1945 decals.

Someone needs to tip off the eBay guy and send him a good example of a wartime decal.

 

[raiderhillbilly]

I have an interesting set with the old Logo. The box is aged and cracked like the Black boxes but this one is dark brown. The breaker Bar is unmarked like the Brazil sets but has better chrome like the SK sets. The sockets are very much like the S-K Chrome era sockets but these are marked "Chrome-Vanadium STEEL" The shape of the sockets has that "bullet" profile like the earlier 1/2 drive sockets. The square ends of the sockets have no ball detents, so they are old.View media item 97418View media item 97417View media item 97416View media item 97415

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Nice. Must be an early one.

 

[d42jeep]

Yeah, early. Those are even earlier than our 1/4” drive S-K Chrome sets. Very interesting to see. Thanks for posting them.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That is the some style decal on my ears 30s sk 1/2 drive stuff. Probably 35 or so.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The sockets are very much like the S-K Chrome era sockets but these are marked "Chrome-Vanadium STEEL"

I've always loved the early two-tone satin base/chrome walls sockets, and that big STEEL marking on them makes them look even cooler.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Agreed! First set I have seen like that.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

These are a couple different 1930’s patent pending examples. I talked about them earlier in this thread in post 1035 and 1039, where I have a newish example of one, and the even earlier (probably first model) round head by S-K.

I’ve never seen these two ratchets physically next to one another, so here they are.

The bottom one came from my buddy CB as posted in the Garage Sale thread.

The top one also came from a member here. It is unfortunately missing the directional switch. Note “no snap ring” on this earlier model.

Spotted one of these so I bought it. Has the snap ring so must be the later version. Still works pretty good, although looks to have had a rough life.

 

[drivesitfar]

ALL: I thought this might be an old Craftsman set, but the box looks like it has an old SK logo on the inside of the lid. are these unmarked tools SK or do tell if you might happen to know?

thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom as I get organized and find a few things laying around.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They look like early 30's (pre-Alloy) S-K socket drive tools to me, Drives. When unmarked they are often confused with Hinsdale and even Indestro due to the ratchet. Are they chromed? Or cad? These sets show up cad-plated, too, which also tends to confuse people who associate cad exclusively with WWII. It was a popular economy line finish in the 30's well before WWII.

 

[drivesitfar]

LUG: thanks for sharing your wisdom. the sockets and tools have an unfinished look so definitely not chrome. if you or anyone else wants more or specific pics just ask.

cheers

 

[d42jeep]

Drives,
Everything about the set looks like early S-K. Even though the sockets aren’t marked with the name, S-K had what looks like center punch marks on both sides of the size markings making them fairly easy to ID.
-Don

 

[drivesitfar]

Jeep: i'm guessing you meant me and not Woody or did Woody post something I didn't see? i'll take a peak at that set when I get it back out, but I think it's buried again under a pile of stuff while i'm GETTING ORGANIZED.

thanks if you meant that for me!!

 

[d42jeep]

Drives, yes it was meant for you. I had previously been reading a post by Woody. I edited out my mistake. Here is a set just slightly newer than yours. It has a mix of sockets marked Chrome Vanadium Steel and S-K Chrome, although the sockets look like they have always been together. It may have been made just as S-K was transitioning to the S-K Chrome logo on the sockets. It has a sliding Tee and the double male extension with the two bands of knurling that S-K used early on. I wonder it the set would have come with a 1/2” drive plug for doing closer work? The first two pictures are of the set as received, the next two are after cleaning. The Chrome is remarkably good for a set made in the late 30s.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't remember seeing this set before, Don. FWIW, I agree with all your suppositions. While it's possible that some of the sets we commonly find, by any mfgr, have been cobbled together over a number of years, from different production style eras, by a PO who sticks with a favorite mfgr as sockets break or get lost, a small nut spinner set is an unlikely repository for that kind of behavior. Much more likely, as you have already figured, that it came like that. My one pause is that Chrome Vanadium Steel socket with different (earlier) knurling. EDIT: But even that could just be due to how they filled the box from NOS stock at the factory.

Speaking of the box, I only have one socket set with a sliding top, a hex drive DASCO set. It takes a little getting used to at first, but I really like the efficiency. No hinges to bend or break. No clasps.

I wonder when they dropped the female sliding tee?

That's a really cool little set.

 

[twertsy]

Drives, yes it was meant for you. I had previously been reading a post by Woody. I edited out my mistake. Here is a set just slightly newer than yours. It has a mix of sockets marked Chrome Vanadium Steel and S-K Chrome, although the sockets look like they have always been together. It may have been made just as S-K was transitioning to the S-K Chrome logo on the sockets. It has a sliding Tee and the double male extension with the two bands of knurling that S-K used early on. I wonder it the set would have come with a 1/2” drive plug for doing closer work? The first two pictures are of the set as received, the next two are after cleaning. The Chrome is remarkably good for a set made in the late 30s.

-Don

Very cool set Don!

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[d42jeep]

Thanks, guys. I briefly considered using S-K Chrome sockets to make the set consistent but quickly realized that would probably be a bad idea and destroy the originality of the set.
-Don

 

[lardy1]

I can't rival most of you serious collectors for rare or unusual. But I want to play, too.

Here are a couple of incomplete collections I'm building on.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Great set don. Lardy1 great Wayne set, label is in fantastic shape.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Here is an old sk hex set

 

[d42jeep]

I can't rival most of you serious collectors for rare or unusual. But I want to play, too.

Here are a couple of incomplete collections I'm building on.

Those dark 1/2” drive sockets are wartime and are both rare and unusual. I’ve been putting together one of those sets for quite a while and I’m still missing a couple of pieces.
-Don

 

[lardy1]

Those dark 1/2” drive sockets are wartime and are both rare and unusual. I’ve been putting together one of those sets for quite a while and I’m still missing a couple of pieces.
-Don

Yes. I don't see many of them around at flea markets and sales. I'm seeking a 5/8" and a 13/16", I would be interested in filling in my blanks. I'd die for a matching ratchet.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is an old sk hex set

All I have is an otherwise unmarked 105 ratchet. Here is a catalog listing for your set.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Yes. I don't see many of them around at flea markets and sales. I'm seeking a 5/8" and a 13/16", I would be interested in filling in my blanks. I'd die for a matching ratchet.

I may have a black ox ratchet. I can check tonight.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[d42jeep]

Yes. I don't see many of them around at flea markets and sales. I'm seeking a 5/8" and a 13/16", I would be interested in filling in my blanks. I'd die for a matching ratchet.

Here is the current state of my wartime set. I only have the one ratchet but I’ll check my spares today to see it I have either of your missing sockets.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What sockets are you missing, Don?

 

[d42jeep]

Just the 15/16” wartime finish. Thanks for asking. The set has some cad, plain steel and dark finishes. OTG and Roy already checked their spares. I have two 1-1/16” and two 7/8” spares.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Artisan 3/8 set. Only thing marked artisan is ratchet.

 

[Rileysan]

Artisan 3/8 set. Only thing marked artisan is ratchet.

Interesting. Are the rest of the tools marked "S-K" or are they unmarked?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

These are marked sk. Not sure what year they started the artisan brand, but given the riveted metal logo plate probably postwar, which is what the tools look like.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are my S-K estate sale finds from yesterday. The DOE wrenches are in nice condition and the evaporust is working on the sockets.
-Don