Ko-ken Tools -- What Makes this Brand Special !?!?

[RKA]

@giants, I think you’ve reached analysis paralysis by looking at all your questions in different threads.

Warranty - I would treat it as non existent. If K-USA decides to help you, great. But their presence in the US is very limited and can end at any time. You are buying a high quality tool, so odds are they will only fail if abused.

High tooth to low tooth - pretty much exactly what you expect. It only matters when you find yourself in tight quarters where you need to smaller swing arc. 99% of the time, 36 tooth will be fine. Would I sell my high tooth snap ons? No, I can recall a few instances where that was helpful. On the other hand, the Koken ratchet head is thinner and narrower by 2-3mm in all dimensions, and coupled with the zeal sockets they are 5-6mm shallower than the snap ons using 10mm sockets, so you gain that flexibility.

My one disappointment with the Kokens is the short “padded” handle. It was made for small hands and not for comfort, but they should be easier to clean. The snap on handles are much easier on the hands as are most comfort handled ratchets available. With all the attention to detail, frankly, I don’t understand why they couldn’t place a greater emphasis on the handle. I haven’t put my kokens to use in an engine bay yet (just got them a few weeks ago). But my opinion on the handle will not change with time and use.

The Zeal sockets are quite nice. For me(working on my car), I could justify the 3/8” zeal set, maybe the 1/4”, but probably not the 1/2”. Bear in mind I’ve already got those sets in my tool box in spades.

 

[Mr_B]

While ratchet are nice you got a massive selection of 72 to 90 tooth options at all price points and pro usable.
likes of carlyle and capri got good ratchet options at pretty low cost if pick wisely and use sales wisely .
usable warranty on a ratchet more useful than a socket, you pretty much throwing good money away and worrying about nothing over warranty for sockets .
For amount you likely break self warranty on sockets always better cost .
Koken sockets are incredibly good to point of exceeding truck favourites yet prices low so great value quality choice .

 

[BrandoJames]

From what I can tell, Z-EAL only comes in 36 teeth, non-Z-EAL in either 20 or 24 teeth. Does Koken make any higher tooth ratchets? Anyone have issues going from higher tooth count ratchets to the lower-tooth Kokens?

Good catch, I noticed that as well while browsing the Ko-ken catalog over my morning coffee. Even a budget ratchet like HF’s Pittsburg-Pro is 72 tooth. Since you’re an auto tech student, I’d find a more practical ratchet.

@giants, I think you’ve reached analysis paralysis by looking at all your questions in different threads.

Sorry, no. Ratchet tooth count isn’t “analysis paralysis”. That’s a primary ratchet spec that should be taken into consideration. @giants is an auto tech student who’s using this board for some guidance. For a DIY hobbyist with a lot of discretionary income, Ko-ken may be an interesting addition to an established tool collection. An auto tech student needs more practical tools to work with.

 

[General Geoff]

Koken ratchets have low tooth counts but also the lowest backdrag of any ratchet I've used. The lower tooth count rarely matters in practice, at least in my experience.

 

[BrandoJames]

Koken ratchets have low tooth counts but also the lowest backdrag of any ratchet I've used. The lower tooth count rarely matters in practice, at least in my experience.

I'm sure the Kok-en tools are well made--they have a dedicated following here. But a 36 tooth ratchet is really dated. That's a 10 degree swing arc. If we were debating a 72 tooth vs 90 tooth (5 degree vs 4 degree arc), then I'd agree that would be "analysis paralysis".

But a 10 degree (36 tooth) vs 5 degree (72 tooth) swing arc is significant in tight places, even with limited backdrag. I have a 36 tooth Williams 1/2" ratchet with a 15" length, that's an excellent ratchet when you have plenty of space. It's almost like a mini breaker bar with a flex head. But you need a fine tooth ratchet (at least 72 tooth) in tight places. In those cases, I'll opt for my 3/8" Snap-on Dual 80 (flex) or my 1/2" Matco 88 (fixed head).

 

[RKA]

To overstate the obvious, no one tool does everything and having a variety of tools will help you get into tight spaces. Swing arc is only one issue. Is it the only issue? Depends on what you're doing.

 

[M6erfan]

...My one disappointment with the Kokens is the short “padded” handle. It was made for small hands and not for comfort, but they should be easier to clean. The snap on handles are much easier on the hands as are most comfort handled ratchets available. With all the attention to detail, frankly, I don’t understand why they couldn’t place a greater emphasis on the handle. I haven’t put my kokens to use in an engine bay yet (just got them a few weeks ago). But my opinion on the handle will not change with time and use

Ko-ken, and most Japanese tool maufacturers, have small handles for whatever reason. I've seen this with KTC as well. I too wish their handles were a bit longer/larger.

... For a DIY hobbyist with a lot of discretionary income, Ko-ken may be an interesting addition to an established tool collection. An auto tech student needs more practical tools to work with.

I agree with this, mostly. I love my Ko-ken ratchets and use them first whenever practical, but I also have 72t-90t ratchets in my box. I say mostly because how many wrenchers, let alone techs, have only one ratchet? As you say, Ko-ken is a great addition to the ratchet arsenal, even for seasoned "pro" wrenchers. Not just "DIY"ers or "hobbyists".

If the question is "If I could only have one ratchet, would you recommend Ko-ken?" then my answer will be no.

 

[JBH]

I'm sure the Kok-en tools are well made--they have a dedicated following here. But a 36 tooth ratchet is really dated. That's a 10 degree swing arc. If we were debating a 72 tooth vs 90 tooth (5 degree vs 4 degree arc), then I'd agree that would be "analysis paralysis".

Funny how some Americans can’t cope with tools expressly and recently designed for use on compact, elaborately packaged Japanese vehicles...

A sloppy and crude Williams battleaxe may have a similar tooth count as Zeal, but that’s where the similarities end.

 

[giants]

...

High tooth to low tooth - pretty much exactly what you expect. It only matters when you find yourself in tight quarters where you need to smaller swing arc. 99% of the time, 36 tooth will be fine. Would I sell my high tooth snap ons? No, I can recall a few instances where that was helpful. On the other hand, the Koken ratchet head is thinner and narrower by 2-3mm in all dimensions, and coupled with the zeal sockets they are 5-6mm shallower than the snap ons using 10mm sockets, so you gain that flexibility.

My one disappointment with the Kokens is the short “padded” handle. It was made for small hands and not for comfort, but they should be easier to clean. The snap on handles are much easier on the hands as are most comfort handled ratchets available. With all the attention to detail, frankly, I don’t understand why they couldn’t place a greater emphasis on the handle. I haven’t put my kokens to use in an engine bay yet (just got them a few weeks ago). But my opinion on the handle will not change with time and use.

The Zeal sockets are quite nice. For me(working on my car), I could justify the 3/8” zeal set, maybe the 1/4”, but probably not the 1/2”. Bear in mind I’ve already got those sets in my tool box in spades.

Thank you!

Please keep us updated once you start using the Koken ratchets.

Which ratchet model(s) do you have?

About the comfort grip being designed for small hands, do you mean that the total diameter of them is smaller than the knurled version? The stock photos are misleading for me.

I don't have much experience with 1/2" sockets and tight spaces, but I recall that one of the rear brake caliper bolts on my Volvo has limited access due to the spring very close behind it. It took a 17mm socket and needed torquing to 75 ft-lbs. However, would a chrome socket be improper to use with a breaker bar? Would a "ratchet adapter" or "socket adapter" (not sure of the right term) make it easier to get the bolt off? If so, can anyone recommend a brand or model?

Thanks again!

 

[BrandoJames]

Funny how some Americans can’t cope with tools expressly and recently designed for use on compact, elaborately packaged Japanese vehicles...A sloppy and crude Williams battleaxe may have a similar tooth count as Zeal, but that’s where the similarities end.

I own & work on a 2010 Toyota Corolla 1.8L 4 cylinder. Does that qualify as a
"compact, elaborately packaged Japanese vehicle".

You might also explain how a 36 tooth "Zeal" would be better in tight places than a Snap-on Dual 80 Flex.

 

[48548]

I own & work on a 2010 Toyota Corolla 1.8L 4 cylinder. Does that qualify as a

"compact, elaborately packaged Japanese vehicle".



You might also explain how a 36 tooth "Zeal" would be better in tight places than a Snap-on Dual 80 Flex.

I love dual 80s... love koken extensions but the ratchets ****... I bought a bunch... might as well get out my old proto and plombs.... everything else I have is top notch... just ratchets ****....

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

 

[Mr_John]

Ko-ken certainly does have a cult-like following on GJ. Admittedly, I even purchased a Ko-ken ratchet as well as a Wiha impact driver, which is Made in Japan, and I'm fairly certain is a re-branded Koken Attack impact driver. Ko-ken definitely makes higher quality tools, however, one of the reasons I bought the Wiha re-branded version of the Ko-ken is because a) it was cheaper, and b) better warranty coverage with Wiha.

I'm not crazy about the low tooth count for larger ratchets, however, in the 1/4 stubby ratchet I purchased, I wanted a very small compact ratchet with low backdrag, and the Ko-ken 75 mm (less than 3 in) 2753PS is certainly compact, and the backdrag is very light.

It's odd, with such a following in the US, that Ko-ken doesn't sell directly to, uhmmm, how about Amazon, Zoro, or Rakuten, for example -- let alone a brick and mortar tool retailer. Maybe as a testament to their high quality, there aren't a lot of Ko-ken warranty stories. It appears to me that if you want a Ko-ken ratchet or socket warrantied, then you need to ship it at your expense to Japan (or find a dealer in the US, which, again, is non-existent at present).

 

[BrandoJames]

Ko-ken certainly does have a cult-like following on GJ. It's odd, with such a following in the US, that Ko-ken doesn't sell directly to, uhmmm, how about Amazon

Agreed. And there's nothing wrong with brand loyalty to a Japanese toolmaker. I own several Vessel screwdrivers (love them), as I've posted elsewhere on this forum.

 

[RKA]

@giants For the koken, I got the standard 3/8" and long flex head 3/8". It's not the diameter of the handle, it's the uniform cylindrical shape and more importantly, the length of the padded area your hand wraps around. On the Koken it's about 2.5" where the snap on's it's about 4" (which will cover one end of your palm to the other). I can post a picture later tonight if you're not visualizing what I'm describing.

As to your second question about the caliper bolt, I'm not sure I'm following. There is no reason you can't use a breaker bar with the socket, if it fits. Any adapters you add will eat up what little clearance you have. You really just need to break it loose. When access is limited, I'll use a 3/8" wrench instead of the 1/2" to buy me a little extra space. If that still won't fit, then you need a shallow socket or a long pattern combo wrench to break that bolt loose. After I break it loose I'll typically use a ratcheting wrench or turn it by hand if I can. You won't need to get the bolt out, just need to back it out far enough that it's no longer threaded into the carrier and the caliper can lift out.

But sometimes there isn't enough space to completely unthread the bolt. My audi has such an issue with the rear brakes. I only loosen one of the caliper bolts with a combo wrench, remove the other and swing the caliper out (pivots on the bolt that is still attached). I can do what I need to do without completely removing that bolt.

 

[Mr_John]

I don't have much experience with 1/2" sockets and tight spaces, but I recall that one of the rear brake caliper bolts on my Volvo has limited access due to the spring very close behind it. It took a 17mm socket and needed torquing to 75 ft-lbs. However, would a chrome socket be improper to use with a breaker bar? Would a "ratchet adapter" or "socket adapter" (not sure of the right term) make it easier to get the bolt off? If so, can anyone recommend a brand or model?

That's funny, I was thinking of the exact same rear wheel carrier bolts on my MK5 GTI that have a ton of torque on them, and very limited access. I use a 3/8" Matco 88 12" locking flex head. It has a very compact flex head for access and foot long handle for great leverage to break the bolts loose. The closest high quality Taiwanese equivalent to the Matco is GearWrench's long handle flex head in 3/8 (either 80 tooth or the 120 XP).

At any rate, those are areas where the Ko-ken low tooth count and the extra long swing arc at the end of a long handle would be problematic. Backdrag is not really a big issue when you're removing large brake carrier bolts.

 

[giants]

I love dual 80s... love koken extensions but the ratchets ****... I bought a bunch... might as well get out my old proto and plombs.... everything else I have is top notch... just ratchets ****....

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Thanks. In what ways do the Koken ratchets ****?

 

[toddmorr]

You might also explain how a 36 tooth "Zeal" would be better in tight places than a Snap-on Dual 80 Flex.

it might or might not, depending on how tight things really are. In actual use cases I find it makes about a 2-3 inch difference at the end of the handle, between a zeal 36 tooth and say 80 tooth ratchet. Meaning, the lower tooth ratchet requires about 2-3 inches more movement than a high tooth before getting the click. (comparing a 3/8 zeal versus say a Carlyle high tooth.) Not many situations where I don't have 2-3 inches to move things. The shorter Zeal handles further help this situation. Now that I think about it, someone really smart could probably calculate this distance exactly using the precise measurements of the various ratchets.

to be fair, I notice the difference more often when using the 20 tooth Koken 753 series, but that ratchet has even lower backdrag and the knurling is fabulous. So I reach for that guy or the Zeal first, if there simply isn't the room, i go for the Tekton or whatever.

 

[M6erfan]

...It's odd, with such a following in the US, that Ko-ken doesn't sell directly to, uhmmm, how about Amazon, Zoro, or Rakuten, for example -- let alone a brick and mortar tool retailer. Maybe as a testament to their high quality, there aren't a lot of Ko-ken warranty stories. It appears to me that if you want a Ko-ken ratchet or socket warrantied, then you need to ship it at your expense to Japan (or find a dealer in the US, which, again, is non-existent at present).

That's just false. Why do you keep repeating this? Why are you guys so adverse to contacting Ko-ken USA or FranksTools for warranty issues???

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6104581&postcount=20

Instead of posting things that 'appear to you", why don't you just reach out to KokenUSA or Frank and let us know what they say?

 

[BrandoJames]

would a chrome socket be improper to use with a breaker bar? Would a "ratchet adapter" or "socket adapter" (not sure of the right term) make it easier to get the bolt off? If so, can anyone recommend a brand or model?

There’s nothing wrong with a chrome socket on a breaker bar. The danger is chrome socket + impact wrench. Instead of buying a ratchet adapter for your breaker bar, you might use that money towards a long handled flex ratchet. A quality ratchet is one tool I’m willing to spend some money on.

If you can afford it, go with @Mr_John's Matco ratchet recommendation. You might consider a used Matco (or Snap-on) on eBay. If you can only afford a budget ratchet, I often use a 3/8” Titan flex (72 tooth) 18” long that I picked up on Amazon for $38. I use that Titan in tight places—excellent budget ratchet.

 

[Mr_John]

That's just false. Why do you keep repeating this? Why are you guys so adverse to contacting Ko-ken USA or FranksTools for warranty issues???

Instead of posting things 'appear to you", why don't you just reach out to KokenUSA and let us know what they say?

You're kidding, right? Okay, there is about 1 authorized dealer in the entire United States with a population of 327 Million. Also, I HAVE read previous posts, thank you very much - and what I recall, is that one person (yes, one person, there aren't a ton of Ko-ken warranty threads) had broken flex joint on a Ko-ken flex ratchet and it was clear Ko-ken was not easy to warranty.

As I recall, you previously cut and pasted something from Ko-ken's website, but ended up admitting that it was required that you either track down that one single US distributor and shipping the ratchet to them (at your cost) or shipping the ratchet to Ko-ken Japan (at your cost as well). Even THEN, Ko-ken is not an unlimited warranty - they need to review the claim and determine if the failure was due to a quality defect and not so-called "abuse."

As far as Franks Tools warrantying a Ko-ken ratchet, I've never read one example of Franks Tools warrantying a Ko-ken ratchet. Is Frank's even an authorized reseller? I've read emails complaining about Ko-kens being ordered from Frank's and taking weeks or even months to receive (as in, he doesn't have them in stock, and has to have them shipped from Japan).

So, yeah, I still stand by what I've said about Ko-kens and the "uncertainty" around their warranty, esp in the USA.

 

[M6erfan]

You're kidding, right? Okay, there is about 1 authorized dealer in the entire United States with a population of 327 Million. Also, I HAVE read previous posts, thank you very much - and what I recall, is that one person (yes, one person, there aren't a ton of Ko-ken warranty threads) had broken flex joint on a Ko-ken flex ratchet and it was clear Ko-ken was not easy to warranty.

As I recall, you previously cut and pasted something from Ko-ken's website, but ended up admitting that it was required that you either track down that one single US distributor and shipping the ratchet to them (at your cost) or shipping the ratchet to Ko-ken Japan (at your cost as well). Even THEN, Ko-ken is not an unlimited warranty - they need to review the claim and determine if the failure was due to a quality defect and not so-called "abuse."

As far as Franks Tools warrantying a Ko-ken ratchet, I've never read one example of Franks Tools warrantying a Ko-ken ratchet. Is Frank's even an authorized reseller? I've read emails complaining about Ko-kens being ordered from Frank's and taking weeks or even months to receive (as in, he doesn't have them in stock, and has to have them shipped from Japan).

So, yeah, I still stand by what I've said about Ko-kens and the "uncertainty" around their warranty, esp in the USA.

I have no idea what post your talking about. I can't remember EVER saying you need to ship anything back to Japan for warranty. Please refresh my memory.

Again, have you reached out to KokenUSA or Franks to learn for yourself what the deal is? Or do you just read through threads that may or may not have accurate info and base your decision on how it "appears"? When I wanted to know for sure I contacted Ko-ken and posted the answer, which I linked. If that's not good enough for you then I just don't know what else to say.

 

[Mr_John]

I have no idea what post your talking about. I can't remember EVER saying you need to ship anything back to Japan for warranty. Please refresh my memory.

Again, have you reached out to KokenUSA or Franks to learn for yourself what the deal is? Or do you just read through threads that may or may not have accurate info and base your decision on how it "appears"? When I wanted to know for sure I contacted Ko-ken and posted the answer, which I linked. If that's not good enough for you then I just don't know what else to say.

I never stated that it was YOU that said that about the warranty. I stated that you defended the warranty. Other people in the thread had mentioned the problems with Ko-ken's warranty. I googled Ko-ken's warranty and opined, as there are almost 0 authorized dealers, and none local, the 1 authorized dealer that Ko-ken had was new, and not clear they were easy to contact, and other than that, Ko-ken required you to send the tool back to Ko-ken. Where did you read otherwise? I'd send you a post, but if you recall, I got banned for 30 days because of... uhmmm... I was a bit critical of Ko-ken ratchets? Seriously, the reason for my 30 day ban stated "Drama." That said, my posts were removed and thread was taken down, I believe.

Now, as far as Frank's is involved - that's your claim that Frank's warranties Ko-ken's and not mine. The onus is on you to provide proof, not me. It's like me stating some dude down the street from me warranties Ko-ken, and then saying "well prove me wrong." So, please show us on Ko-ken USA's website where it shows Frank's Tools as an authorized warranty center.

I'll wait.

In the meantime, I've already stated that I bought a Ko-ken ratchet and think they're nice, so I'm not sure why you defend them like you have stock in the company. USA Warranty is clearly a weak point, yet your defensiveness befuddles me.

 

[M6erfan]

I never stated that it was YOU that said that about the warranty. I stated that you defended the warranty. Other people in the thread had mentioned the problems with Ko-ken's warranty. I googled Ko-ken's warranty and opined, as there are almost 0 authorized dealers, and none local, the 1 authorized dealer that Ko-ken had was new, and not clear they were easy to contact, and other than that, Ko-ken required you to send the tool back to Ko-ken. Where did you read otherwise? I'd send you a post, but if you recall, I got banned for 30 days because of... uhmmm... I was a bit critical of Ko-ken ratchets? Seriously, the reason for my 30 day ban stated "Drama." That said, my posts were removed and thread was taken down, I believe.

Now, as far as Frank's is involved - that's your claim that Frank's warranties Ko-ken's and not mine. The onus is on you to provide proof, not me. It's like me stating some dude down the street from me warranties Ko-ken, and then saying "well prove me wrong." So, please show us on Ko-ken USA's website where it shows Frank's Tools as an authorized warranty center.

I'll wait.

In the meantime, I've already stated that I bought a Ko-ken ratchet and think they're nice, so I'm not sure why you defend them like you have stock in the company. USA Warranty is clearly a weak point, yet your defensiveness befuddles me.

LOL, you are bordering on delusional now. You really like to make up what people post and the facts to fit your narrative. Lovely.

"As I recall, you previously cut and pasted something from Ko-ken's website, but ended up admitting that it was required that you either track down that one single US distributor and shipping the ratchet to them (at your cost) or shipping the ratchet to Ko-ken Japan (at your cost as well). Even THEN, Ko-ken is not an unlimited warranty - they need to review the claim and determine if the failure was due to a quality defect and not so-called "abuse.""

^^^Again, please point me to that thread where I said all this

I never said Franks warrantied koken, others did. Point of fact, I actually doubted this and found it surprising that he would, because he is no longer a koken distributor. I posted as much.

I linked to the email direct from Ko-kenUSA regarding warranty, not sure what more proof you need? And the onus is on you. You want to spew out posts that may or may not be true (by your admission) then you need to bring the facts.

I'm waiting...

Edit: As far as you being banned a while ago...Perhaps it was because you like to make up your own facts and blatantly lie about what other members post. Might want to think about that.

 

[giants]

I'm confused as to the difference between tooth count and backdrag, especially how they feel. I tested my 90tooth Tekton and early 2000 36 tooth US Craftsman in an open access area and can't tell the difference.

 

[Mr_John]

LOL, you are bordering on delusional now. You really like to make up what people post and the facts to fit your narrative. Lovely.

"As I recall, you previously cut and pasted something from Ko-ken's website, but ended up admitting that it was required that you either track down that one single US distributor and shipping the ratchet to them (at your cost) or shipping the ratchet to Ko-ken Japan (at your cost as well). Even THEN, Ko-ken is not an unlimited warranty - they need to review the claim and determine if the failure was due to a quality defect and not so-called "abuse.""

^^^Again, please point me to that thread where I said all this

I never said Franks warrantied koken, others did. Point of fact, I actually doubted this and found it surprising that he would, because he is no longer a koken distributor. I posted as much.

I linked to the email direct from Ko-kenUSA regarding warranty, not sure what more proof you need? And the onus is on you. You want to spew out posts that may or may not be true (by your admission) then you need to bring the facts.

I'm waiting...

You are unbelievable! I've already stated, the thread I'm referencing was taken down!!! Look how defensive you're getting about Ko-ken... does anyone really believe that I'm making this up and you did not try to defend Ko-ken's warranty like you are right now?

You are the one that just told me to try Frank's, and now you want credit because you were skeptical of Frank's? Here's exactly what you just wrote a few posts ago:

That's just false. Why do you keep repeating this? Why are you guys so adverse to contacting Ko-ken USA or FranksTools for warranty issues???

How is that NOT you claiming Frank's warranties Ko-ken? I state Koken lacks USA warranty service, and then you reply - but "why are you so adverse to contacting... FranksTools for warranty issues???" With 3 question marks nonetheless. How is that NOT you stating Franks is an authorized warranty center?

Also, did YOU try Ko-ken USA's website? Good luck. The entire website mentions almost nothing about warranty. It does mention one, yes one (1) USA distributor in Massachusetts. Here, since I actually went to Ko-ken's website and looked, here is what it shows:

Contact Us


We are proudly located in Chelmsford, Massachusetts.

Come visit us or call for support.

USA & CANADA

Blackstone Global, Inc.
10 Kidder Rd, Unit 4
Chelmsford, MA 01824
Phone: (978) 455-0672 ext. 1210
Fax: (978) 455-0684

That's it! Not a single mention about Blacksone Global even warrantying Ko-ken products, let alone FranksTools.

Now your turn. You seem to craftily deny stating things in previous threads, while at the same time, saying the exact same thing I stated you said in the thread... that Koken's has a great warranty. There is NO evidence of this. There's no evidence of anyone having a Ko-ken warrantied in the USA as far as I'm aware. If you have evidence, then show it. What you seem to keep doing is claiming what you didn't say, without taking account for what you've just stated in this thread.

Please, point us to Ko-ken's wonderful USA warranty. I looked through the Ko-ken USA website. Did you?

 

[M6erfan]

I'm confused as to the difference between tooth count and backdrag, especially how they feel. I tested my 90tooth Tekton and early 2000 36 tooth US Craftsman in an open access area and can't tell the difference.

This may be helpful. At the very least possibly interesting. From our GJ member and Japan Tool guru Superautobacs...

 

[measuredtwice]

I'm confused as to the difference between tooth count and backdrag, especially how they feel. I tested my 90tooth Tekton and early 2000 36 tooth US Craftsman in an open access area and can't tell the difference.

Higher tooth count means you have to swing the ratchet less to catch the next tooth. On some it's around 5 degrees. In a wide open space, it doesn't make much practical difference. In a tight spot, it can be helpful.

High back drag can have the unwanted effect of taking the fastener with it. Ko-ken has really low back drag.

 

[M6erfan]

You are unbelievable! I've already stated, the thread I'm referencing was taken down!!! Look how defensive you're getting about Ko-ken... does anyone really believe that I'm making this up and you did not try to defend Ko-ken's warranty like you are right now?

You are the one that just told me to try Frank's, and now you want credit because you were skeptical of Frank's? Here's exactly what you just wrote a few posts ago:



How is that NOT you claiming Frank's warranties Ko-ken? I state Koken lacks USA warranty service, and then you reply - but "why are you so adverse to contacting... FranksTools for warranty issues???" With 3 question marks nonetheless. How is that NOT you stating Franks is an authorized warranty center?

Also, did YOU try Ko-ken USA's website? Good luck. The entire website mentions almost nothing about warranty. It does mention one, yes one (1) USA distributor in Massachusetts. Here, since I actually went to Ko-ken's website and looked, here is what it shows:



That's it! Not a single mention about Blacksone Global even warrantying Ko-ken products, let alone FranksTools.

Now your turn. You seem to craftily deny stating things in previous threads, while at the same time, saying the exact same thing I stated you said in the thread... that Koken's has a great warranty. There is NO evidence of this. There's no evidence of anyone having a Ko-ken warrantied in the USA as far as I'm aware. If you have evidence, then show it. What you seem to keep doing is claiming what you didn't say, without taking account for what you've just stated in this thread.

Please, point us to Ko-ken's wonderful USA warranty. I looked through the Ko-ken USA website. Did you?

I'm not defending Ko-ken. I'm attempting to get past the conjecture.

Yes, all this talk about who warranties Koken in the USA and lots of conjecture. My point was, why not contact Franks (because another poster said he will honor warranty) or ko-ken USA directly and ask.

How is that not me not saying Franks warranties koken? Ummmm, because I never said that.

Please quote where I said Ko-ken has a great warranty. Again, you cant. Another lie and putting words in someones mouth. You seem to like doing that.

You keep asking for me to post Kokens warranty. I linked to ko-ken's response in an email. You keep ignoring that or choose not to believe it. Again, for the umpteenth time, reach out to Ko-ken or Frank and ask about the warranty. You seem opposed to that though. Not sure why.

At any rate, whatever, I'm done arguing with you. Total waste of time.

 

[Mr_John]

I'm not defending Ko-ken. I'm attempting to get past the conjecture.

Yes, all this talk about who warranties Koken in the USA and lots of conjecture. My point was, why not contact Franks (because another poster said he will honor warranty) or ko-ken USA directly and ask.

How is that not me not saying Franks warranties koken? Ummmm, because I never said that.

Please quote where I said Ko-ken has a great warranty. Again, you cant. Another lie and putting words in someones mouth. You seem to like doing that.

You keep asking for me to post Kokens warranty. I linked to ko-ken's response in an email. You keep ignoring that or choose not to believe it. Again, for the umpteenth time, reach out to Ko-ken or Frank and ask about the warranty. You seem opposed to that though. Not sure why.

At any rate, whatever, I'm done arguing with you. Total waste of time.

Again, you keep claiming what you supposedly did not say, rather than what your position actually is.

My position is clear, the USA warranty support ***** based on--- uhmmm, complete lack of warranty support in the USA... not to mention products sold without a warranty card (tell me how many of your Ko-ken's came with a warranty card)... and lack of warranty info on Koken's own website.

Your position is what, exactly? Ko-ken's warranty in the USA is ok, good, great? If you want to criticize MY position, then what is YOUR position - other than disclaiming previous posts? Why should I go on a wild goose chase to FranksTools? I've already read through pages and pages of complaints about people waiting weeks and months to get their Ko-ken tools from Frank's, but somehow FranksTools is going to warranty a Ko-ken... that he likely doesn't even have in stock??? Please.

So you emailed Ko-ken on one day many years ago, and you're basing your entire Ko-ken USA warranty support analysis on one email... one email that said what, exactly? Didn't that email simply say, "hey, send it to your authorized USA distributor?" Uhmmm, the one distributor in the US, located in MA, that has no information about Ko-ken warranty support? Essentially, you have an email from Ko-ken that tells you almost NOTHING about Ko-ken's warranty support, yet you continue to cite it.

 

[Mr_John]

BTW - ***cough, cough

I broke 2 koken tools a couple of weeks ago. Contacted koken USA by email with an explanation and pictures on broken tools and part numbers. I had to re email them to try to get some resolution when I didn't hear back. I was denied any warranty as the tools where purchased from. Itools in Japan and not from toolpan. As per koken usa, Koken doesn't offer a lifetime warranty on their tools. Anyway, a bit disappointed as I really like their tools. Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up.

Thanks
Keith

(emphasis added by me)

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344680


Uhmmm... EXACTLY what I said...


EDIT: Irony is apparently still alive and well... looks like you actually responded in this same thread. Back then, you seem to acknowledge Ko-ken's warranty was... well... I'll use your own words, a "Bummer." What has changed? Did you inherit some Ko-ken stock we don't know about?

Bummer.

A few weeks ago I had an email back and forth with Koken USA regarding buying their tools in the USA and warranty support. Seemingly they are content with the current set up. The thing that gets me is that there is little if any stock kept stateside, it seems that most everything is ordered and drop shipped from Japan. So, to me, there is no real advantage in buying from Frank's, Toolpan, etc. vs. Rakuten or other Japanese websites. However, this warranty issue points to one advantage...

On a side note, I see that Levelchrome has been dropped from Koken USA's "where to buy" list. And the Levelchrome website has been down for over a week...

(emphasis added by me)

And yet one more for good measure (and it's dripping with irony):

........................That said, I've never broken any hand tool. I've worn some out, and they get replaced, on my dime. Also, I have enough redundancy that the broken tools that the OP showed wouldn't have slowed me down at all...

All that said, I do believe Koken would be wise to work out their USA distribution and warranty. They'd be a force to be reckoned with IMO.

(emphasis, again, added by me... also shortened the longer post for brevity)

 

[scubadoober]

 

[JBH]

I own & work on a 2010 Toyota Corolla 1.8L 4 cylinder. Does that qualify as a

"compact, elaborately packaged Japanese vehicle".

Not really. That’s pretty big by Japanese market standards.

I You might also explain how a 36 tooth "Zeal" would be better in tight places than a Snap-on Dual 80 Flex.

I don’t waste time with second rate makers that don’t care to provide consistent product. The unit to unit inconsistency on Dual-really-72 (no experience with larger ones) is...not to the brand’s credit. Koken, as well as Gedore, Stahlwille, Facom, etc. have more advanced QC.

That said, Zeal 1/4” drive has a smaller head than Dual-really-72 1/4”. So that may help in tight spots. Ditto the markedly improved backdrag, if you can’t get a good grip on the socket.

Zeal is not my Koken preference, however. The reason is the aforementioned short handle. The two I use most are a 1/4” drive Wiha branded QR flex with their Softfinish handle, and a long flex bit ratchet that was originally metal handle, with a Hazet plastic grip pressed on.

 

[BrandoJames]

Not really. That’s pretty big by Japanese market standards. I don’t waste time with second rate makers that don’t care to provide consistent product.

I see. I wonder how many Kei cars are being driven by GJ members. Interesting how you consider Snap-on to be a "second rate maker".

Let us know when "first rate maker" Ko-ken gets around to making a fine tooth ratchet.

 

[giants]

Ko-ken certainly does have a cult-like following on GJ. Admittedly, I even purchased a Ko-ken ratchet as well as a Wiha impact driver, which is Made in Japan, and I'm fairly certain is a re-branded Koken Attack impact driver. Ko-ken definitely makes higher quality tools, however, one of the reasons I bought the Wiha re-branded version of the Ko-ken is because a) it was cheaper, and b) better warranty coverage with Wiha.

I'm not crazy about the low tooth count for larger ratchets, however, in the 1/4 stubby ratchet I purchased, I wanted a very small compact ratchet with low backdrag, and the Ko-ken 75 mm (less than 3 in) 2753PS is certainly compact, and the backdrag is very light.

Thanks. Do you find the low backdrag in the Ko-Ken being a greater advantage than the low tooth count?

 

[giants]

@giants For the koken, I got the standard 3/8" and long flex head 3/8". It's not the diameter of the handle, it's the uniform cylindrical shape and more importantly, the length of the padded area your hand wraps around. On the Koken it's about 2.5" where the snap on's it's about 4" (which will cover one end of your palm to the other). I can post a picture later tonight if you're not visualizing what I'm describing.

Thanks.

I'd appreciate a photo.

What's your model number for the standard 3/8" ratchet?

Any problems with wear on the comfort grip?

Do you pre-treat it with anything to resist stains?

Thanks

 

[Steve_P]

I'm sure the Kok-en tools are well made--they have a dedicated following here. But a 36 tooth ratchet is really dated. That's a 10 degree swing arc. If we were debating a 72 tooth vs 90 tooth (5 degree vs 4 degree arc), then I'd agree that would be "analysis paralysis".

But a 10 degree (36 tooth) vs 5 degree (72 tooth) swing arc is significant in tight places, even with limited backdrag. I have a 36 tooth Williams 1/2" ratchet with a 15" length, that's an excellent ratchet when you have plenty of space. It's almost like a mini breaker bar with a flex head. But you need a fine tooth ratchet (at least 72 tooth) in tight places. In those cases, I'll opt for my 3/8" Snap-on Dual 80 (flex) or my 1/2" Matco 88 (fixed head).

This ^. It kills me how people here rave about a Koken 36T ratchet. Oh, the back drag, the knurling.... yeah but it's not 1970 anymore; 36T does not always work on modern cars. For a socket specialist, Koken needs to up their ratchets from 50 yr old designs.

 

[jimmyin3D]

I have smaller hands but the Zeal lines “comfort handle” especially for the 1/4 drive have a pretty small grip area even the 3/8 drive is a tad small. The rubber or whatever they use is pretty stain resistant though and I don’t see it falling apart easily but time will tell.

 

[Mr_John]

Thanks. Do you find the low backdrag in the Ko-Ken being a greater advantage than the low tooth count?

Yeah, the low tooth count is a reason why the Ko-Ken's backdrag is so low. It does result in some engagement "slop," esp since it's only a 24 tooth count mech, however, the length is under 3 inches. Extra swing arc usually isn't a big deal in such a short stubby low profile ratchet. If it is an issue, I have 1/4" 72 tooth Snap-on standard and flex head ratchets.

The advantage of the low backdrag, for example, comes in tight quarters where you might be using a Torx head socket or hex socket and a heavier drag ratchet will disengage the bolt on the back swing. I bought it for around $36 shipped, I believe, so it's just a nice option to have in certain situations.

 

[jimmyin3D]

This ^. It kills me how people here rave about a Koken 36T ratchet. Oh, the back drag, the knurling.... yeah but it's not 1970 anymore; 36T does not always work on modern cars. For a socket specialist, Koken needs to up their ratchets from 50 yr old designs.

That’s true most people here will agree with you that a Koken ratchet should not be your one and only ratchet, it’s much better as a secondary ratchet to accompany a higher tooth count such as SO. No excuses why they haven’t when there rival in Japan KTC/Nepros has a 90tooth.

 

[Ryan]

I see these threads and wonder if people that argue about tool brands really use tools. I just don’t get the mind set. “That dude likes a tool brand that I don’t... dog pile!”

Weird.