Anybody have 1952 Proto Catalog

[ssdave]

I'm running into a dead end on trying to identify when my green Proto box was offered.

I have a 1956 catalog. Here's a link with many catalogs posted:
http://forum.toolsinaction.com/topic/11452-tools-in-action-vintage-catalog-collection/

In reviewing the catalogs, the 1949 catalog shows the old plomb type boxes. by 1954, the boxes are the new Proto style, but none that match my 5 drawer box. By 1960, the logo was changed to PROfessional Quality TOols, from the 1950's PROTO means PROfessional TOols.

So, that puts my box between the 1949 plomb style, and the 1960's newer logo. But, the 54 and 56 catalogs don't show it, so that leaves the 1952 catalog to check, and I can't find one.

Anybody hae a 1952 Proto Catalog, or a 1950 if it exists?

The box appears to have the older pressteel type handles, instead of the newer duplex type. The drawer configuration is the very different piece.

 

[twertsy]

I think I have a 50 and 52 but I'm out of town. If you don't hear from me by the end of the week, ping me again.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[ssdave]

Thanks, twertsy! I keep hoping to find a catalog showing this. Neither the color or the drawer configuration is typical.

 

[bmwrd0]

They don't show up in the '52 catalog either. That handle type is different also. It looks more like a Duplex box.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

51 catalog still shows the Plomb type boxes.

EDIT. Or at least the catalog copyrighted in 51 does. Did they issue a catalog every year or just even numbered years?

 

[DadsTools]

I know almost nothing about tool boxes, so I want to say that upfront. I also want to brace myself against any cat-calls about how unqualified my comments might be with this disclaimer.

However, I do know some general information about 19th & 20th century period design, and specifically about metal office furniture (cabinets, files, desks, etc). I only wish to comment in the hopes it might be useful. Were I to come upon a box like this but know absolutely nothing about dating of the label style, here's what I'd think:

The corner edges of the box are rectilinear, not "streamline" that was typical of late Art Deco/early Mid Century design. This would point me toward late 1950s or later.

The imitation "hammered" paint finish (quite visible in the closeup of the label) was very popular in the latter half of the 1950s to the early 1960s.

The pressed steel double wafer lock is an inexpensive way to make a cabinet lock. Such cost-cutting measures became more common as a response to cheap Japanese imports that began to proliferate in the latter half of the 1950s. The shift from streamline to rectilinear design was also in part a response to this same need to cut costs.

With the hammered paint being the strongest clue for me, I'd place this cabinet mid-to-late 1950s to early 1960s.

Maybe you'll find some of this useful.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

I would say that is pretty accurate. Here is 52 tool chest. No metallic paint or funny drawer pulls.

 

[ssdave]

Thanks, bmwrd0, I thought that was where I'd end up. Seemed unlikely they would produce the box for a couple years and then go to a new design.

I agree with the 1950's. The logo dates it pretty accurately, it's between 1950 and 1960. What I'm having a hard time with is finding a catalog that shows this drawer configuration. Not to mention the color, that was never offered as far as I can tell. But, the box is undoubtedly 100% original. I've also been unable to find another green box on the net, nor a Proto or Duplex box with this drawer configuration. Find plenty of the 9997 boxes.

I know a bit of the history of the box, it was the personal box of an Oldsmobile dealer from the 50's to the 80's. He brought all the remnants of his personal business stuff home when he sold it in the 80's, and kept them in his garage till he died in 2018. I bought it from his estate.

I think I'm going to aim at filling it as if it's a 9907 Master wrench set; with the addition of a combination wrench set, and maybe some pliers. With the lesser number of drawers it has, I don't think it will hold all the tools of a 9902 maintenance master set.

A postscript on the color: I'm pretty certain it is original. I've had the box disassembled down to components, and the inside is partially painted, as most boxes are. The green fades out to unpainted areas, consistent with how original paint would. No evidence of any kind of red paint being stripped, or overpainted. Hinges and joints also show no evidence of repainting.

 

[bmwrd0]

You know, if he was the Oldsmobile dealer, it might have been a special gift. I do think it was made post-LA period, so after '56. But pre '64.

 

[DD T/A]

Can you date the emblem? When did Proto start putting © on their stuff? I was always under the impression that was around 1963--I have absolutely no idea how or when I came to that conclusion.

 

[ssdave]

Can you date the emblem? When did Proto start putting © on their stuff? I was always under the impression that was around 1963--I have absolutely no idea how or when I came to that conclusion.

The emblem dates it pretty narrowly. The emblem was first used after the Plomb/Proto transition, and was changed by the 1960 catalog, which I'm linking here: https://archive.org/details/ProtoToolsCatalog60201960

So, from that I'm sure the box is previous to the 1960's.

The 1960's catalog doesn't show this type of box, the lineup is pretty much the same for toolboxes as my 1956 catalog has.

 

[Provincial]

One thing I notice is that the drawer configurations are not consistent over the years. For instance, the 1952-era #9997 chest had two levels of twin drawers over two full-width drawers that appear to have the same depth. I have an industrial catalog dated 1969 that has excerpts from the Proto catalog. It shows the #9997 chest as having one level with three drawers, then two levels of full-width shallow drawers, then one full-width deep drawer on the bottom. The shape of exterior resembles ssdave's box, and it has the later, rounded handles.

I find Dave's box interesting for the color and the handles. I wonder if the color is a custom run for Oldsmobile (or perhaps all of GM) mechanics. I know some auto companies offered tools or sets that were customized for the marque.

The handles are so unlike Proto boxes from the early 50's-on that they must have been a custom feature. Perhaps a "throwback" touch to help make the box special?

 

[Provincial]

I will also point out that numbers other than 9990, 9991, and 9997 are not listed in the catalogs that I have access to. It is possible that there are several other configurations that have part numbers that were not listed in published catalogs, but were available upon request.

 

[oldmantaylor]

It is not in my 1950 Proto catalog. Is it possible that someone put the Proto plaque on a different tool box?

 

[DD T/A]

It is not in my 1950 Proto catalog. Is it possible that someone put the Proto plaque on a different tool box?

I hate to say it, but that's what I've been thinking as well; looks absolutely nothing like any proto box small or large that's I've seen on the net.

Not trying to step on your feet Dave. Just an uneducated opinion.

(let me be honest here, I'd kill to have found that box myself,

)

 

[Provincial]

Does this look familiar? https://i.pinimg.com/236x/7a/89/1f/7a891f1853ea0de365fb64382f11489e--tool-organization-tool-storage.jpg

"Vintage 1960's MBC (Snap-On) Tool Box Chest"

The handles and drawer configuration are remarkably similar, but it does not have the front cover attached to the lid.

 

[DD T/A]

^^^They really aren't the same, I have a very beat up but exact version of that top box. Handles are unique and have a little design on them, not the same as on Daves Proto.

totally Off Topic.Another nicer example on same page: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7049789#post7049789

 

[ssdave]

It is not in my 1950 Proto catalog. Is it possible that someone put the Proto plaque on a different tool box?

I hate to say it, but that's what I've been thinking as well; looks absolutely nothing like any proto box small or large that's I've seen on the net.

Not trying to step on your feet Dave. Just an uneducated opinion.

(let me be honest here, I'd kill to have found that box myself,

)

That occurred to me, too. But, the logo looks to be perfectly original. Nothing on this box looks like it has ever been messed with. Side handles are Duplex type, in contrast to the pressteel type drawer handles.

 

[ssdave]

Here's a picture of a duplex box, with similar drawer configuration (except 3 full size) but different handles. Notice also that the box frame is narrower. This is a 1960's era box, and the box frame was narrowed from the 1950's. You can see the same thing in Proto boxes.

 

[Provincial]

I didn't say that I thought I was liking to a identical box! What I was pointing out is that the 3-narrow-drawer top tier design was available outside of Proto, and appears to have been accepted in the market.

The other point was that flat-strap handles were also common. As ssdave points out, the Proto Empire box supplier Pressteel used flat-strap handles, but the most likely supplier for the era, Duplex, did not. This anomaly is front and center (if you'll pardon the expression) to this question.

 

[Provincial]

Anyone else notice that the handles on the two narrow top drawers have an arch to them that is missing on the longer handles on the other drawers? All the long handles are the same, which is a design preference, since other boxes with similar drawer configuration have handles on the middle top drawer that either match the narrow side drawers, two handles matching the drawers on either side, or one that is similar, but not as wide as the lower drawers.

I looked at Remline, Huot, and some old craftsman boxes and did not find any close matches. I could not easily find Advertising Metal Display boxes, so I can't report on them. ssdave refers to Pressteel-type handles but I didn't find any like that on the internet.

ssdave, does the box have dividers in the top bin? The catalogs refer to them, but not to carry trays.

Another piece of information: Fire destroyed the Duplex factory in March of 1958. Perhaps the box was made during a period of disruption? Here is a snip of post #951 of this thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7831080&highlight=duplex+fire#post7831080



As I said on the thread where we got into this a little bit (concerning an 'Old Forge' box), that's a little ambiguous. It could mean that PTTI already owned Duplex when the fire burned the old site down. Or it could mean that PTTI acquired what was left of Duplex after the fire.

The earliest ad I can find of Duplex tool boxes where Duplex is explicitly identified as a subsidiary of PTTI is this ad, in Popular Mechanics, January 1959, when the address was already Fort Smith, Arkansas. My thinking is if they had already owned Duplex as a subsidiary, why wouldn't there be earlier ads? And a fire seems like an opportunity, and one thing Plomb was good at was seizing opportunities.

 

[ssdave]

Provincial, the box has dividers, but also the removable tray. Interesting question, reminds me of a slight anachronism in the box. The tray fits right to left, but leaves about a 1/4" gap front/back. Style vaguely bothers me, too, and it shows a very minute age discrepancy. The tray shows more box rub wear than the box does. Could be right, or not. It could very well have been added later.

One very definite clue to the maker of this box will be the lid. It's cut and folded and welded very distinctively. I'll take pictures later when I get a chance. I've wanted to find my Proto 9997 box and compare it in construction to this one. I know the frame width is different, as are the drawer handles. The top till will be another comparison item.

An alternative supplier in the absence of Duplex would be a good explanation for this box.

I have not been able to find any similar handles and drawer configurations either. I've considered MBC as the handles are similar. But, too many other features on the box are very different.

 

[DadsTools]

A postscript on the color: I'm pretty certain it is original. I've had the box disassembled down to components, and the inside is partially painted, as most boxes are. The green fades out to unpainted areas, consistent with how original paint would. No evidence of any kind of red paint being stripped, or overpainted. Hinges and joints also show no evidence of repainting.

If it's any help, I've seen a lot of hammered paint finishes from the 50s and 60s. This looks to be an original factory paint application. If it was an aftermarket repaint, someone did an exquisite job of it. But it looks to me to be both original and period correct.

 

[Provincial]

I forgot to paste the snip in my post #21. I fixed that this morning.

 

[Asport]

This one is post #18 on The VINTAGE toolboxes of Garage Journal!

Very similar design, drawer pulls and lift handles.

 

[DD T/A]

Whoa, I think we're getting warmer! Great observation Asport

 

[ssdave]

One possible step closer. There is a Cornwell chest that I thought was configured like mine. It is listed with two sets. The part number is SK-24. I thought it was 5 drawer, with two big and three small drawers. But, I think they just show it with two large drawers open, and one closed. Another difference is the tray sets back, and mine sits against the front.

https://archive.org/details/CornwellToolsCatalogA56/page/n35

 

[Provincial]

Who made the chests for Cornwell during that time?

 

[ssdave]

One very definite clue to the maker of this box will be the lid. It's cut and folded and welded very distinctively. I'll take pictures later when I get a chance. I've wanted to find my Proto 9997 box and compare it in construction to this one. I know the frame width is different, as are the drawer handles. The top till will be another comparison item.

An alternative supplier in the absence of Duplex would be a good explanation for this box.

I have not been able to find any similar handles and drawer configurations either. I've considered MBC as the handles are similar. But, too many other features on the box are very different.

Okay, now have a good working hypothesis of who the maker is, and why. The why is thanks to Provincials hint, and reference to the Duplex factory fire.

The working hypothesis is that the box is from 1958, and was made by Beach, in the absence of capability of Duplex to deliver to Proto. The box drawer layout is different than Proto, because they utilized something expedient from Beach. I don't have any catalog's to check this guess.

The lid is critical to this hypothesis: I'm attaching a picture below, and here is a picture of Beach from another thread this week.

The Beach box is also the distinctive green color.

Now, you guys that actually know something, pick this apart or run with it.... Here's the picture of my box lid:

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Is there another pic? Scratch that I see it now. Definately looks like lid is cut the same.

 

[Provincial]

Good detective work! Glad I could help.

 

[ssdave]

Took a bit of time to search, and found a Beach box configured like my Proto, except for the handles are just slightly different but it's from 1988, so to be expected:
View media item 63376View media item 63377And another one:

 

[Barrytomia]

view all

Hi, noticed that the view all pages option in the thread is now gone.
is it possible to have it back?

tia

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Still have it on mine

 

[DadsTools]

Okay, now have a good working hypothesis of who the maker is, and why. The why is thanks to Provincials hint, and reference to the Duplex factory fire.

The working hypothesis is that the box is from 1958, and was made by Beach, in the absence of capability of Duplex to deliver to Proto. The box drawer layout is different than Proto, because they utilized something expedient from Beach. I don't have any catalog's to check this guess.

The lid is critical to this hypothesis: I'm attaching a picture below, and here is a picture of Beach from another thread this week.

The Beach box is also the distinctive green color.

Now, you guys that actually know something, pick this apart or run with it.... Here's the picture of my box lid:

Based on the construction, style, and especially the paint in the original photos of the box in question, I'm liking this 1958 date a lot.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Here is a roller I picked up at a swap meet yesterday that looks to me like it has a lot in common with Dave's top box. I haven't been able to find a flying lady on it though or any other identifier so far. Just the colors and drawer pulls look right. Not sure about the drawer slides but they are fairly distinct. As found barn fresh pics. Ed.

 

[Rileysan]

Here is a roller I picked up at a swap meet yesterday that looks to me like it has a lot in common with Dave's top box. I haven't been able to find a flying lady on it though or any other identifier so far. Just the colors and drawer pulls look right. Not sure about the drawer slides but they are fairly distinct. As found barn fresh pics. Ed.

Apparently owned by a former ESCO employee, here in Portland (My employer's main competitor - both in the marketplace as well as for employees). I wonder if I knew him ...

Brian

 

[jd_1138]

I like the lift out handled tray on top. They don't have those anymore I think on most modern boxes. You can put some core/often used/fave tools in it, and carry it out to a project.

 

[bmwrd0]

Here is a roller I picked up at a swap meet yesterday that looks to me like it has a lot in common with Dave's top box. I haven't been able to find a flying lady on it though or any other identifier so far. Just the colors and drawer pulls look right. Not sure about the drawer slides but they are fairly distinct. As found barn fresh pics. Ed.

Smokeshadow and I were wondering the same thing, and I am glad you bought it so we can all find out!

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I'll try and get a better pic of the drawer slides on the roller tomorrow afternoon too. They are definitely not conventional. I did clean it up a bit more late this afternoon and still haven't found a mark on it. Ed. (Might have to drag it along with me next trip over but it's not as nice as your top box for sure).