The VISES of Garage Journal

[AngryBeaver]

Picked up another Machinists at a yard sale today - It pays to ask if they have stuff! My first Long C vise! 5186

Some of the original blue paint left...

25 bucks

Is it for sale? that's one of the last 2 reedsmans I need. if so, please let me know

 

[Outlawmws]

Thanks Shift!

Sorry AB, I will be keeping this one for the Long C collection. If it were a dupe, then maybe.

 

[AngryBeaver]

Thanks Shift!

Sorry AB, I will be keeping this one for the Long C collection. If it were a dupe, then maybe.

I understand completely and that one isn't really that common to begin with. see if you can find a date on the left hand side (non logo side). should be in 1/8" stamps. add it to the reed date thread if you find them

Killer score.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'l look for the date - Got a link to the Reed thread? I don't think I've seen it.

 

[AngryBeaver]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400156&highlight=reed+date+thread

 

[Smitty]

Outlaw, Nice find, those don’t come up very often.

 

[Shiftless]

Speaking of Craftsman vises and specifically who made the 519x series for Sears...
(Reed or Columbian?)

I realize that there is an entire thread dedicated to this question but this thread gets 100x as much action.


Here is an example of a vise (not mine) with the crown badge similar to the heritage badge and a nose and handle ends and overall shape very similar to the rather unique 519x series but bearing a series number starting with 506 which we all agree identifies it as made by Columbian.

Compare with the pic of my 5195

Hmmmmmm????????

.

 

[va.grouseman]

Thanks PGH, you're very articulate with your answers.---Helps with clarification.

 

[va.grouseman]

$25.00.---One man's refuse is another man's Long C Craftsman.---It pays to ask.

 

[Outlawmws]

AB I wasn;'t able to find any date stamps, but this has other anomalies as well:

Cast in jaws. All of the catalog references I have show the lines for bolt in...

The screw is a meatball, (expected per the catalogs) but the retainer is the split ring that came when Reed started doing the ft nose screws...

 

[IdahoMan]

$25.00.---one man's refuse is another man's long c craftsman.---it pays to ask.

That it does.

 

[AngryBeaver]

AB I wasn;'t able to find any date stamps, but this has other anomalies as well:

Cast in jaws. All of the catalog references I have show the lines for bolt in...

The screw is a meatball, (expected per the catalogs) but the retainer is the split ring that came when Reed started doing the ft nose screws...

the split nut came about in the late 30's. the flat nose hockey pucks didn't come out until very late 40's. there are literally thousands of split nut meatball R series in this thread alone... Every A and R model has a split nut spindle... I believe R stood for Revised.

No reed made craftsman has ever surfaced with replacable jaws. Reed didn't do this until the mid 60's and was only on the C series and 400 series.

Speaking of Craftsman vises and specifically who made the 519x series for Sears...
(Reed or Columbian?)

I realize that there is an entire thread dedicated to this question but this thread gets 100x as much action.


Here is an example of a vise (not mine) with the crown badge similar to the heritage badge and a nose and handle ends and overall shape very similar to the rather unique 519x series but bearing a series number starting with 506 which we all agree identifies it as made by Columbian.

Compare with the pic of my 5195

Hmmmmmm????????

.

have you have owned either of these? if you have, you'd notice the 519X series is about twice the weight. There is zero resemblance to a columbian and 519x series once you have them side by side. one is ductile iron and one is cast iron. the machined grooves on the spindle and the lock handles are the only similar resembling things. the tapered ends on the columbian made craftsman's were forged on. the 519x had them peened on.

the crown badged cmans were columbian made. later ones were also japan made.

you will never convince me that the 519x series was made by reed or columbian. the 519x series uses rock island jaws. they interchange in all sizes. they are also know for breaking the jaw support ledges off, just like rock islands. Whens the last time you've seen a cracked columbian? I've owned 8 519x series and will no longer buy them because most are broken and cracked. They are known for cracked and broken ledges, as well as broken nuts. they have a cult following here, but they are not a good heavy duty vise. I had one, that the entire static jaw had been cracked and braised back together under the jaws. totally covered by paint. I have never once seen a cracked columbian. EVER.

The way the spindle handle ends are peened over is identical to how rock island did them. the bump in the static jaw on the 519x matches rock islands. In the Cman catalogs, the 519x series was shipping from illinois- home of rock island.

its taken us years to get people away from the thought that columbian made these just based off of looks. Please don't try and go backwards and injecting this here based on looks alone, instead of facts. Maybe read up the last 5-10 pages of the 519X post. popular belief now is they were made by rock island.

 

[Shiftless]

That makes sense. Thanks for the background.

 

[va.grouseman]

Quote by AngryBeaver.

I have never once seen a cracked Columbian.
---------------------------------------------------------------


Ductile vs Cast.---Hickory vs Popular.

 

[rusty65]

Parker 269 5 1/2 jaws 10in opening and weighs 145lbs. I’m very impressed with how Parker distributed the weight on this vise. Every strain area has extra cast material to add heft. The steel bar cast into the beam is interesting as I wonder how much stronger that makes the vise.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[garfunkle24]

Anyone familiar?

 

[KMScott]

That's a nice one Rusty. Always like the Semi Steel models. The Meatballs are pretty large. Some have had tail cracks when the bars are close to the surface. Thanks for the spec;s so I could update the Spreadsheet.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I half-saw a vise the other day. I thought it was a Reed, but now, after paging through pics and pics of Reeds, I'm not so sure. There was a Prentiss Bulldog 255 next to it and a couple of anvils that had my undivided attention and only when I walked away and eventually left the flea market completely, did I realize that I forgot to check it out.

What I remember - and my memory may not be so good, is fuzzy, just ideas of what I think I saw, depicted by the illustration below.

Don't pay too much attention to the body of the vise, which I don't really have a good mental image of.

The jaws seemed extraordinarily high - as if there should be pipe jaws or a provision for pipe jaws but there wasn't, even higher than what I have drawn.

The swivel base reminded me of a clam shell, with large, coarse, interlocking teeth, and I immediately got the idea that it probably worked like a clutch-type ratchet adapter, literally pulling the vise up, rotating it, and dropping it back down into the counterpart base. (I probably exaggerated the size of the base in the illustration.)

Lastly, it apparently clamped onto a bench with a central screw and an extra large wingnut.

Does anyone recognize what it might've been based on my rather crude drawing?

We got rained out today, I am away tomorrow, and I won't see the guy again until next Friday. It's going to eat at me all week that I didn't look at the markings to see what it was. And I'm not enough of a 'vise guy' to have identified it without looking at the markings.

 

[Outlawmws]

Lugz, That was essentially the original swivel vise. The bottom plate got screwed to the bench, the big wingnut pulled it into the teeth to lock it in position. Late 1800's to early 1900's almost certainly a hundred years old or more. I have one similar, I think its a Rock island if I recall.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I think its a Rock island if I recall.

Thanks. Maybe that's where I am getting the mental "R" from.

 

[Maui]

the split nut came about in the late 30's. the flat nose hockey pucks didn't come out until very late 40's. there are literally thousands of split nut meatball R series in this thread alone... Every A and R model has a split nut spindle... I believe R stood for Revised.

No reed made craftsman has ever surfaced with replacable jaws. Reed didn't do this until the mid 60's and was only on the C series and 400 series.




have you have owned either of these? if you have, you'd notice the 519X series is about twice the weight. There is zero resemblance to a columbian and 519x series once you have them side by side. one is ductile iron and one is cast iron. the machined grooves on the spindle and the lock handles are the only similar resembling things. the tapered ends on the columbian made craftsman's were forged on. the 519x had them peened on.

the crown badged cmans were columbian made. later ones were also japan made.

you will never convince me that the 519x series was made by reed or columbian. the 519x series uses rock island jaws. they interchange in all sizes. they are also know for breaking the jaw support ledges off, just like rock islands. Whens the last time you've seen a cracked columbian? I've owned 8 519x series and will no longer buy them because most are broken and cracked. They are known for cracked and broken ledges, as well as broken nuts. they have a cult following here, but they are not a good heavy duty vise. I had one, that the entire static jaw had been cracked and braised back together under the jaws. totally covered by paint. I have never once seen a cracked columbian. EVER.

The way the spindle handle ends are peened over is identical to how rock island did them. the bump in the static jaw on the 519x matches rock islands. In the Cman catalogs, the 519x series was shipping from illinois- home of rock island.

its taken us years to get people away from the thought that columbian made these just based off of looks. Please don't try and go backwards and injecting this here based on looks alone, instead of facts. Maybe read up the last 5-10 pages of the 519X post. popular belief now is they were made by rock island.

I own a Rock Island 591 vise and have several of the Craftsman 519X vises including a 5195. After unscrewing one of the jaws on the Rock Island 591 to clean it up with my wire wheel I noticed the design of the jaws on this vise look exactly like the jaws on my Craftsman 5195. So I unscrewed one of the jaws from the Craftsman and examined the screws that were used to secure it in place. They are identical. See below. The Craftsman screw appears on the right in the photo. Rock Island is the only vise manufacturer that I am aware of that used machine screws with that particular taper on the heads. Nobody else used them. They are unique to Rock Island as far as I know. I tried securing the screw from the Craftsman into the jaw of the Rock Island 591 and it was a perfect fit. And the screw from the Rock island fit perfectly in the Craftsman jaw.

In my opinion these Craftsman vises were manufactured for Sears by Rock Island.

 

[AngryBeaver]

I own a Rock Island 591 vise and have several of the Craftsman 519X vises including a 5195. After unscrewing one of the jaws on the Rock Island 591 to clean it up with my wire wheel I noticed the design of the jaws on this vise look exactly like the jaws on my Craftsman 5195. So I unscrewed one of the jaws from the Craftsman and examined the screws that were used to secure it in place. They are identical. See below. The Craftsman screw appears on the right in the photo. Rock Island is the only vise manufacturer that I am aware of that used machine screws with that particular taper on the heads. Nobody else used them. They are unique to Rock Island as far as I know. I tried securing the screw from the Craftsman into the jaw of the Rock Island 591 and it was a perfect fit. And the screw from the Rock island fit perfectly in the Craftsman jaw.

In my opinion these Craftsman vises were manufactured for Sears by Rock Island.

I won't argue with anything you said. I have rock island jaws that DR. Scott made on my 05197. I have a major hard on for people thinking these are columbian made. Being from the buckeye state, I am a huge columbian fan. nothing about the C'man vises are columbian. They were either rock island made, or they were made offshore. People here DO NOT want to believe that.. the next series of craftsman after the crown logos were Japan made. the casting quality on the 0519x series is complete garbage compared to any reed, rock, or columbian in my opinion. I will admit, before I ever owned a 519x series, I figured they were columbian based on the grooves in the spindle and lock down handles. 30 seconds after owning a 5195 I realized there is nothing in common. Columbians dont get any love here, but they will straight up take abuse. it won't win any beauty contests, or bring bug collector money. but them and the R series reeds are the best vises you can buy for abuse.

rock island wasn't the only one that used machine screws. Reed used a machine taper screw on there mid 60's and later vises with replacable jaws. So did prentiss and the early columbians made by prentiss. I have not compared the taper on the different screws though.

 

[Maui]

I have compared the tapers on the screws from the various manufacturers. The Rock Island tapers are unique.

 

[mpckd]

rock island wasn't the only one that used machine screws. Reed used a machine taper screw on there mid 60's and later vises with replacable jaws. So did prentiss and the early columbians made by prentiss. I have not compared the taper on the different screws though.

Columbian used the tapered head machine screws in jaws for their M3 designation as well.

 

[Maui]

And like you AG, I have seen many broken vises over the years from just about every manufacturer. But I have never seen a broken Columbian vise, ever. In fact, I am in the middle of restoring a Columbian 206. I had just about everything apart, and I was trying to remove the jaws themselves. While I was driving out the pins that hold the jaw in place on the dynamic jaw tower, I didn’t notice that the whole tower was moving slghtly with every hammer blow. Eventually the whole thing walked far enough to the edge of the table that it fell off and damn near landed on my foot. I was able to get out of the way fortunately, but the tower bounced off of stone from a height of about 3 feet. I feared that it was going to break. But it literally bounced. No damage at all. None. Not even a scratch.

Maui

 

[Old Radar]

I have never once seen a cracked columbian. EVER.

Now you have. No. 505--both jaws cracked. As mitigation, it was from an industrial site.

 

[KMScott]

I have compared the tapers on the screws from the various manufacturers. The Rock Island tapers are unique.

Any C style jaw maker back in the day used the 30 degree included angle screws. They did not have many options like we have today and later the 30 degree screws were discontinued. I am sure they are specked out in the Machinery Handbook.

 

[AngryBeaver]

Now you have. No. 505--both jaws cracked. As mitigation, it was from an industrial site.

You realize that has been welded? and the weld cracked?

nice try. user modifications don't count. most people can't weld cast correctly.

I'm also referring to structural sound things, like the main bodies, jaw support ledges, even the slides will dent and not crack unless straight abuse.

 

[AngryBeaver]

Maui, check this one out...I bought it from a buddy that saved it from the scrap yard. Columbian 506 M2.

I bought it for 50 bucks. he picked it up for him and realized he didn't need anything that big. There is nothing I can do to this vise to harm it.

These are sledge hammer marks. i'm guessing they were trying to press something and when it quit turning, they beat on it... guess what? it still works like new. Now I don't feel guilty hammering on stuff on my good vises.

There isn't one brand of vise that would withstand this abuse. not parkers, prentiss's crack when you look at them wrong... I don't even think reeds would take this kind of abuse. they will still crack when in the hands of a neanderthal. these pics don't show how deep the jaw is dented. some are almost an inch deep. Its now mounted on an Ibeam buried outside the garage for abuse work..

 

[ZRX61]

Looks good, there is A LOT of hoopla about these particular vises .. very different markings,stampings etc.. some will say it’s a Chinese made Vise unless it says MADE IN ENGLAND on it... what does the other side have stamped on it? Best Regards


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Can't recall, don't have it nearby. I think it has the same marks, but reversed. Got this for a steal, couple of days later the seller asked if I wanted to sell it back to him as he just found out what they cost new.
Hell no

 

[Old Radar]

You realize that has been welded? and the weld cracked?

nice try. user modifications don't count. most people can't weld cast correctly.

I'm also referring to structural sound things, like the main bodies, jaw support ledges, even the slides will dent and not crack unless straight abuse.

I'm not sure what you are indicating here. Do you think someone welded a perfectly sound jaw for kicks? Or is it more likely someone tried to repair a broken jaw? Chicken or the egg?

 

[AngryBeaver]

I'm not sure what you are indicating here. Do you think someone welded a perfectly sound jaw for kicks? Or is it more likely someone tried to repair a broken jaw? Chicken or the egg?

I'm not sure you understand what you are posting. someone welded those T style jaws to the vise. the weld cracked. the vise body didn't crack. I have welded jaws to a perfectly "good" vise before and guess what? 20 years later they are still attached.

why was it welded? hard telling. maybe they changed the jaws at one point and the replacement holes didn't line up (very common on replacement columbian jaws) and welded them on.. maybe the pins fell out from abuse so the jaws were welded on. who knows? you don't, I don't. All we can do is speculate. the vise itself wasn't cracked... one or two broken columbians doesn't set the precedent for the brand, when you have every other wilton missing jaw ledges and broken bases, or cracked dynamic jaws where the tube connects, Or every other rock island missing the jaw support shelf. then you have prentiss with crack slides, static jaws and bases. the list goes on. Reeds, Columbians and starretts/athols are the strongest vises out there but aren't impervious to neanderthals.

My point being that I think the damage to a vise is more related to the owner, than which company made it.

Yes I'll agree that there are some people that can destroy an anvil with rubber mallet. and Living in the manufacturing and production area where vises are common and abundant, you see many brands. you see many brands broken. and never seen one broken of one brand, but other brands are commonly broken says a lot. especially when its the same brands broken or cracked in the same places, every time...

 

[PghJKB]

Anyone familiar?

Looks like a Made In India knock off of a Polish FPU "Turtle" Vise.

My 2¢

JKB

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Anyone familiar?

It looks like a FPU. Manufactured in Poland by Bison-Bial. However, I’m suspicious that it may be a clone.

From what I can see; 1.) There should be the FPU casting under the left side of the front jaw, not a decal. 2.) The area where the set screws/locknuts is not flat. 3.) The handle looks like it’s chromed.

From what I can’t see; If “Poland” is not stamped on the vise, if the Bison logo isn’t stamped on the vise, if the spindle nut screws aren’t slot heads, and if there is a parting line in the front jaw casting, it may be a clone.

On a side note: I’m glad the decal is in good shape (another point that makes me think it’s a clone.).

The good news is that it’s probably a good vise, and will do what’s asked of it, as long as it isn’t abused. I’ve come across Bison-Bial clones that were sold by industrial supply houses that looked to be good quality, although made in China or India.

That’s my $0.02.

 

[Old Radar]

I'm not sure you understand what you are posting. someone welded those T style jaws to the vise. the weld cracked. the vise body didn't crack. I have welded jaws to a perfectly "good" vise before and guess what? 20 years later they are still attached.

why was it welded? hard telling. maybe they changed the jaws at one point and the replacement holes didn't line up (very common on replacement columbian jaws) and welded them on.. maybe the pins fell out from abuse so the jaws were welded on. who knows? you don't, I don't. All we can do is speculate. the vise itself wasn't cracked... one or two broken columbians doesn't set the precedent for the brand, when you have every other wilton missing jaw ledges and broken bases, or cracked dynamic jaws where the tube connects, Or every other rock island missing the jaw support shelf. then you have prentiss with crack slides, static jaws and bases. the list goes on. Reeds, Columbians and starretts/athols are the strongest vises out there but aren't impervious to neanderthals.

AB--

1. I have no desire to get into a flame war here, so let’s remain congenial.

2. “someone welded those T style jaws to the vise. the weld cracked. the vise body didn't crack.” In fact, the upper portion of the body that holds the T-jaw is cracked all the way through to the T-jaw on both the dynamic and stationary jaws—on the dynamic side the entire repair is loose and is held on by two POS bolts driven up through the pin holes from underneath (not pictured).

3. “one or two broken columbians doesn't set the precedent for the brand.” No one in this discussion is trying to set the precedent. I like Columbians and own two.

4. However, when you make sweeping all-encompassing assertions like: “I have never once seen a cracked columbian. EVER.”; don’t be surprised when people start poking holes in it. When they do, try to have the good grace to consider your position may not be as absolute as you initially assumed and don’t backpedal by putting qualifiers on your assertion, i.e. “I'm also referring to structural sound things, like the main bodies…”

5. Just sayin.

 

[nutjob]

Too far gone even for parts?



Kevin

 

[va.grouseman]

Seinfeld says ("ah, that's a shame".)

 

[Dlavallee22]

Too far gone even for parts?



Kevin

I saw that this morning too, doesn’t look like too much is salvageable on that to be honest, that thing has seen some serious abuse!

 

[jonshonda]

Selling a nice Reed 2C if anyone is interested. PM me for details and pics. Shipping available.

 

[nutjob]

I saw that this morning too, doesn’t look like too much is salvageable on that to be honest, that thing has seen some serious abuse!

He is about 45 minutes away, if I hear back I will pick it up. Been in a bit of a vise finding slump.
Seems all I see lately are welded up POS's.


This guy is about 5 minutes away, the best the guy would do is $45. Its still for sale.

Kevin