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Behemoth Vise Restoration

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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Huntington, WV
Step 1: The Hunt

I've already posted a couple pictures of this thing in the vise thread, but I decided to give it its own thread because I intend to do a full write-up of the restoration. In this post, I'll give a review of what I said in the other one plus some other stuff I've learned.

This thing is a monster! It's just hard to believe how big it is until you're standing there looking at it. The jaws are 8" wide and it weighs 255 lbs. It doesn't have a name cast into it anywhere; all it has is Pat. No. 108 1/2.

I got it off of craigslist after posting an ad saying I was looking for something of this nature. The guy's father-in-law used to own a barge repair shop right on the Ohio River in Chesapeake, OH. The building is still there, but it has been raided pretty thoroughly of most remnants of its glory days. This vise was one of the very last things and I imagine it was only there because no one wanted to carry it away. :thumbup:

My best guess is that it is a Prentiss, but I guess no one will ever know for sure. Do a google search for Prentiss No. 58 and compare the two. I am also fairly certain that it is a chipping vise, made for cold chiseling stuff.

So here is what it looked like in its natural habitat: (I like big pictures...)

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4266998184/" title="January2010_002 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4266998184_d500583511_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="January2010_002" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4266999634/" title="January2010_001 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4071/4266999634_7131d112da_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="January2010_001" /></a>
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Step 2: Welcome Home

Once I got it home, I started finding out just how hard of a life that bad boy has had. It's hard to imagine that someone could abuse a vise that literally looks unbreakable. Barge repair must be serious business.

One more big picture, though. :)

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4267129425/" title="photo9 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2770/4267129425_c8b073af08_o.jpg" width="600" height="800" alt="photo9" /></a>

First, I found out that one of the jaws had been broken off and then welded back on. It looks bad but I honestly don't really mind it very much because it is a reminder of where it came from.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4267129331/" title="photo5 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4267129331_6ee1c2bff2.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="photo5" /></a>

Second, I found a much more serious problem once I wire wheeled the whole thing. The back of the slide had a very large crack in it that had been "repaired" very poorly. I got to talk to the original owner of the repair shop and he said that they were using the vise as a press and had a ten foot pipe on the handle! Luckily, my brother is in a welding class and the instructor agreed to fix it and teach him how to weld cast iron at the same time. Unfortunately, the instructor found out what a large job it was and made my brother do it all unsupervised so that he wouldn't get blamed if it came out poorly. Kind of a jerk, but hey...at least the crack is gone.

They started grinding the old welds out and found that the original crack was much larger than we originally thought.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4335092446/" title="crack4 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4335092446_c1920869d1.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="crack4" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4335092318/" title="crack1 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2684/4335092318_00130cd6a1_o.jpg" width="604" height="453" alt="crack1" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4334350499/" title="crack5 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2782/4334350499_bb1f45735f.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="crack5" /></a>

Not perfect, but a heck of a lot better than before. I think my brother did pretty well for never having welded cast iron before.

Finally, two more things. The nut has also been "repaired", and the Acme threaded screw has been cut off so now its shorter than it is supposed to be.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4334350347/" title="crack2 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4334350347_0e8bbec740.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="crack2" /></a>
 
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Zrexxer

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I say this with all due consideration, because I absolutely love taking tools that have been abused and discarded and making them useful again, but I probably would have written that one off as scrap... The weld repairs on the jaw would be enough for me, let alone that butchered nut and screw.

BUT... I'm looking forward to following this thread. Good luck on the project!
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Step 3: About that Table

In the very first two pictures, notice the table that the vise is bolted to. That was included in the $150 I paid, but when I picked up the vise two months ago, I wasn't prepared to get it. So last Sunday, two months after I got the vise, I finally went to go pick it up. I'll just say that it matches the vise very well. I was with three other grown men and we could just barely scoot the thing across the floor. It's all oak with a steel top and I don't know the exact number, but it weighs several hundred pounds.

The way we got it was with a come along and a tilt trailor and it was still a beast. When we got it back to its new home, we tied a chain to a wall mounted work bench and the table and then just drove the trailor out from underneath it. Sorry I didn't take any pictures of the process, but here is what it looks like right now. I haven't really figured out how I am going to flip it back over yet. :D

More pictures to come as I clean it up.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4436108029/" title="IMG_3310 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4436108029_7eb7ce048c.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="IMG_3310" /></a>
 
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alex71

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Looks like someone around here is following your lead. CL ad just posted:

WTB- BIG Bench Vise / Vice (Gurnee)
Date: 2010-03-16, 3:45PM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]

Hi-

I'm looking to buy a REALLY large bench vise. Nothing from a big box store or made in China.

Six inch wide jaws minimum, but would prefer larger. Old vises are great too! The bigger the better!

Just let me know what you have.

Thanks
 
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Scout Driver

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Great work on the vice. I enjoy seeing something that's forgotten or discarded brought back to life! Looking forward to the rest of the project. :)

Scott
 
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cruiser808

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Wow Banjo, I'm impressed, both with the resto workmanship and the size of that monster! Great work. Can't wait to see the finshed product. Then you'll be able to work on those used Abram M1-A1's and battleships you have out back. :lol_hitti
 
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mjozefow

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Lafayette, IN
alex71 said:
Looks like someone around here is following your lead. CL ad just posted:

WTB- BIG Bench Vise / Vice (Gurnee)
Date: 2010-03-16, 3:45PM CDT
Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]

Hi-

I'm looking to buy a REALLY large bench vise. Nothing from a big box store or made in China.

Six inch wide jaws minimum, but would prefer larger. Old vises are great too! The bigger the better!

Just let me know what you have.

Thanks
Click to expand...



Haha, that would be me!
 
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Broncoman

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Nice job so far, but I want to see pic's of you flipping that bench back over, any bench that can hold that hoss on one end must weigh a ton!
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Made some progress today, but I'm at a point at which its kinda hard to make any. The two main things right now are the missing handle (which I forgot to mention in the first post) and the ACME screw. Today I took the screw apart and snapped a couple pictures. In about in hour, the moment of truth will come when I find out if Fastenal has a matching screw. Cross your fingers, everybody.

My plan is to buy a new ACME screw that is long enough to go from the non-threaded section of the original screw all the way to the back. Then I will cut the original screw somewhere in that non-threaded section and very carefully weld the new screw back on. That should be fun...

Does anyone else have a Prentiss that has a retaining mechanism like this? It would back up my theory that this is a Prentiss if so. Anyway, I have no idea why the manufacturers wanted spring tension there. :headscrat

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4455236716/" title="IMG_3335 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4028/4455236716_6069568ef9.jpg" width="333" height="500" alt="IMG_3335" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4454454747/" title="IMG_3336 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4454454747_4f02318233_b.jpg" width="683" height="1024" alt="IMG_3336" /></a>

Oh and a couple more things. What kind of steel bar should I buy for a new handle and about how much is that going to cost? Where can I find steel balls to thread onto the ends? Those two questions have been nagging at me for a while.
 
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Nealcrenshaw

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Cleveland,OH
Also if fastenal doesn't have the acme screw you can have one made on a lathe,I would find the correct diameter rod you needed cut to your ideal length and have the ends threaded Also Mcmaster-Carr has the threaded steel balls.

Or, you could weld some "appropriate" sized sockets to the ends of a shaft,imo that would be awesome..

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/116/2199/=6c4rv9
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Great idea, Neal. Fastenal did not have have the correct threads. They are 1 3/8" - 4, which is apparently pretty unusual. So I went to a fabrication place and asked them about it and they are supposed to call me back with a quote on how much it will cost to make a section for me.

Those Mcmaster-Carr balls are just what I need. Thanks.
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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It's hard to type out clearly what I want to do, but yes I think you have the right idea. Cut the old one off in the non threaded part and weld about a 22" long threaded piece back on. That way I won't have to worry about matching the threads up in the middle.
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Made some progress on the table recently. It's hard to do anything in the work shop right now since I live an hour away from it. I love this table though. It is built so solidly and has so much character.

My dad "fixed" the leg on the right. It was very slightly rotten at the very bottom where it has been sitting in water on and off for the last however many decades. Thankfully, everything else is nice and solid still.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4550917847/" title="IMG_3505 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/4550917847_ea9a444dc4_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_3505" /></a>

One bad lad of a table.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4551551698/" title="IMG_3509 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4551551698_75142bee91_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_3509" /></a>

The top has had water sitting on it for a very long time, so it had a ton of rusty scaliness on top. This is before using a wire wheel on it. After the wire wheel, it is still bumpy, but its kinda cool actually. The cut out in the top right corner is the rightful resting place of Behemoth.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4551549314/" title="IMG_3507 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4551549314_ca174426b6.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="IMG_3507" /></a>
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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I made a breakthrough yesterday! I saw this vise:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4572033545/" title="This1 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3312/4572033545_89323689f3.jpg" width="500" height="381" alt="This1" /></a>

And it looks completely identical to mine. I had never seen one of 100 series of Columbians before, but they are "heavy chipping vises". Then what made my day was this picture:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4572033581/" title="this2 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3515/4572033581_ba9eb877ae.jpg" width="500" height="463" alt="this2" /></a>

Notice the "Cat. No. 108". Now look at mine:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4267129289/" title="photo4 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2788/4267129289_e66ac5540e.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="photo4" /></a>

I had always assumed that it read "Pat. No. 108 1/2". BUT, I broke off the little bits of welding slag and it actually says "Cat. No. 108 1/2"!! So there we have it folks. My little Behemoth is a Columbian.

The grey one actually has 8.5" jaws and is No. 108 and mine has 8" jaws and is No. 108 1/2. I can't really explain that, but Columbian probably just screwed around with the numbers some.
 
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red92s

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BanjoSavesTheDay said:
I made a breakthrough yesterday! I saw this vise:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/45099362@N02/4572033545/" title="This1 by BanjoSavesTheDay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3312/4572033545_89323689f3.jpg" width="500" height="381" alt="This1" /></a>

.
Click to expand...

Sweet jesus is that a forklift in the background. ANy more pictures of this one to get a sense of scale?
 
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iandh

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Apr 23, 2010
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red92s said:
Sweet jesus is that a forklift in the background. ANy more pictures of this one to get a sense of scale?
Click to expand...

Wow, no **** he wasn't kidding... this is one huge-*** vise.


As for the treatment it recieved prior, I want to give someone a nice slap in the face for abusing a good tool like that.
 
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back2class

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I see a big problem. I would be suprised if that vise were cast iron. More like cast steel and would be concerned with that crack repair holding if welded with nickel rod for cast iron. Not trying to poop on your party but thought it was something that is a real issue.
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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back2class said:
I see a big problem. I would be suprised if that vise were cast iron. More like cast steel and would be concerned with that crack repair holding if welded with nickel rod for cast iron. Not trying to poop on your party but thought it was something that is a real issue.
Click to expand...

That would be kinda funny if it were cast steel and it was welded with nickel rod, but I'm sure it's ductile iron.
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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You're right about the ductile iron; I just found out that it wasn't invented until 1949. However, there are still all different kinds of cast iron. I admit that you had me doubting, but I just hit it with the grinder and it sparks red so it's definitely some sort of cast iron. Now that I think about it, my brother told me that he and his welding instructor did the same thing before they welded on it.

I really appreciate you bringing it up though. The reason I posted it in the first place is to get exactly that kind of feedback. Thanks!
 
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z28snksknr

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This is friggin awesome. I'm glad you didn't scrap it and are willing to put the necessary time in to ressurect this thing. Can't wait to see it in it's former glory!
 
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BanjoSavesTheDay

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Actually I've just recently made a little progress on the handle but haven't had time to upload the pictures and stuff. Too busy! Basically though, I bought a broken 8'' Morgan vise and am going to transplant the whole screw and nut. More detailed plans will come later. :D
 
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