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New house footers

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alan camby

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My dad is having a new house built and so far I am confused by what is going on. I know nothing about house construction yet I do know some rules of thumb about being a handy man.

This house is slab construction.

The concrete was poured yesterday in footers dug 15" to 16" deep. Last night temps got down to 30 degrees F.
Today they are putting the blocks on the footers.

I thought the min was 7 days before concrete should be built on and 28 days for full cure. Even if they used cold weather additives or other chemicals, can they set blocks 24 hours later?

What about frost line? We are over 50" frost line for this part of Indiana ( Johnson County).
The blocks are 8" tall. If they back fill all the way to the top of 2nd block they will only have 32" of dirt from the surface to under the footer. I thought foundation footers should be 12" below frost line?

Thanks!!
a7489442a49ed946514e28430f28ee38.jpg


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slackdaddy1

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No problem at all on laying block on 12 hour old concrete. It is not seeing any real stress with the weight of a few block.
Not sure on the frost line,, a quick call to your permit office will let you know
 
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ConCretin

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I agree with slackdaddy. There is no issue with laying block on concrete that is a few hours old. The loads imposed are minimal compared to concrete's rapidly rising compressive strength.

The footing depth is another matter. Obviously a footing 16" deep isn't frost protected. Is there rigid insulation in the plan? I'm not familiar with your building codes but that would be an unusual design up here in Maine.
 
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Chuckster in NJ

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SUM TING WONG!
Footings are the MOST important component on a building and subject to inspections.
Things to consider when doing footing inspections: depth of footing, down to virgin ground, thickness and width of footings, water in pour area, loose fill, rocks, rebar if required on chairs, debris or frost in pour area, UFER ground to name a few things to look for.
If the temps were below freezing they should have had "blankets" on site to cover the concrete or straw bales at a minimum....... 30* air temp for a 1-2 hour interval on a chilly night is not a issue because the concrete generates heat. Laying the block on a wet pour is "no biggie" and is a standard practice by some masons.
Most important thing is the footings should be done as per the approved plans and this is what the building inspector inspects.

The footing depth is the bottom of the trench..... NOT the top of the pour.
 
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mikegt4

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Chuckster in NJ said:
SUM TING WONG!
Footings are the MOST important component on a building and subject to inspections.
Things to consider when doing footing inspections: depth of footing, down to virgin ground, thickness and width of footings, water in pour area, loose fill, rocks, rebar if required on chairs, debris or frost in pour area, UFER ground to name a few things to look for.
If the temps were below freezing they should have had "blankets" on site to cover the concrete or straw bales at a minimum. Laying the block on a wet pour is "no biggie" and is a standard practice by some masons.
Most important is the footings should be done as per the approved plans and this is what the building inspector inspects.
Click to expand...

You could look at the plans and see where the final ground level is specified to be, there could be a significant fill around the foundation after construction is complete (slope for water run off etc.).
 
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HoosierMark

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In my indiana county the footers need to be inspected. Are you sure this is not going to be a floating slab.? I bet they fill the inside of the foundation with pea gravel after laying out plumbing. Notice the top chord of block, the concrete will rest on it but not be tied to it. That way things can move in the cold weather.
 
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alan camby

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Thanks for all of the responses.

Consensus seems to be that putting the block on after overnight was fine. I appreciate that feedback.

As far as inspection I would assume someone has inspected the foundation. Neither me or my dad know for sure. He is not there all the time and is just stopping buy once a day to see what progress has been made. He talked to the builders salesman and he didn't know what was required for the footers depth and said he would check into it and get back with my dad.

Thanks

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cosmopedro

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alan camby said:
Thanks for all of the responses.

Consensus seems to be that putting the block on after overnight was fine. I appreciate that feedback.

As far as inspection I would assume someone has inspected the foundation. Neither me or my dad know for sure. He is not there all the time and is just stopping buy once a day to see what progress has been made. He talked to the builders salesman and he didn't know what was required for the footers depth and said he would check into it and get back with my dad.

Thanks

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Click to expand...



I was a builder for several decades, in the Mid-Atlantic and New England areas, and my concern is with inspections... everywhere I’ve built I’ve been required to post the permit on-site, under cover, so all inspection signatures were handily available. We were always required to have footing inspections prior to things like pouring concrete, pouring floors, insulating and’/or closing up walls, etc...

My suggestion is to check that permit... not that it’s a guarantee (inspector is concrete guy’s friend or wing man from high school, concrete guy’s been working in region for 20+ years, so inspection is more of a phone call...) but at least there’s a ‘finger point’ path if signed off on.


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matt_i

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For me putting a 42" foundation depth I was standing with more than half my body in the trench. If Indiana has Builders' Licensing you could make a complaint thru the organized process.
 
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cosmopedro

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sberry said:
As nice as this looks and as fast it doesn't appear to be an amateur job.
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Many ‘professional’ jobs are built poorly and sub-code either thru ignorance, ignorance of code changes or being unaware of having been non-compliant for a long time (“I’ve been doing it this way for 30 years!”) - none of which means they’re amateur jobs... but also doesn’t mean built well or compliant! At least verifying inspection signatures means AHJ has had a look and approves.
 
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sberry

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cosmopedro said:
Many ‘professional’ jobs are built poorly and sub-code either thru ignorance, ignorance of code changes or being unaware of having been non-compliant for a long time (“I’ve been doing it this way for 30 years!”) - none of which means they’re amateur jobs... but also doesn’t mean built well or compliant! At least verifying inspection signatures means AHJ has had a look and approves.
Click to expand...

I understand that but this doesn't look like a first timer,and the speed is respectable. Awful nice not to be compliant.
 
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scottydosnntkno

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matt_i said:
For me putting a 42" foundation depth I was standing with more than half my body in the trench. If Indiana has Builders' Licensing you could make a complaint thru the organized process.
Click to expand...

thats a FAR leap when the OP isn't even the one paying for the build. theres many many unknowns here. OP even stated he doesnt do new builds and only has a handyman perspective:shocking:

by the time they get to laying block, there will have been at least two inspections. Footer trench, verifying virgin ground and proper depth per plan. then there will be a post footer pour inspection verifying proper height being theyre trench footers. since it looks like a typical tract sub from the houses in the back, i guarantee the city is on site daily inspecting various jobs for various houses in different stages of construction.

calling the building shoddy and recommending a license complaint is wayyyy far down the line in this situation.
 
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flat350

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I'm near Chicago with a 60" frost depth and you'll only find them doing footings at 42",watched them do it that way for 40 years before I retired as a Plumber.The high rises in the city they start pouring a post tension slab in the morning and are framing columns on it for the next floor before noon and pour them in the afternoon and they're structural members.
 
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SGKent

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If I was concerned about whether something was to code or not I would be calling the city building department or sending them an e-mail asking my question, rather than posting on a forum. If the city can't answer that question then take it to a forum.
 
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Milzo

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scottydosnntkno said:
thats a FAR leap when the OP isn't even the one paying for the build. theres many many unknowns here. OP even stated he doesnt do new builds and only has a handyman perspective:shocking:

by the time they get to laying block, there will have been at least two inspections. Footer trench, verifying virgin ground and proper depth per plan. then there will be a post footer pour inspection verifying proper height being theyre trench footers. since it looks like a typical tract sub from the houses in the back, i guarantee the city is on site daily inspecting various jobs for various houses in different stages of construction.

calling the building shoddy and recommending a license complaint is wayyyy far down the line in this situation.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Its in a subdivision that most likely has building inspectors on site daily. If your curious on how it works just call the city and ask to speak with the person who reviews the plans for code compliance. There are many different ways to build a home foundation.

my 36x48 shop doesn't have footers because our ground is solid bedrock. we have a poured stem wall that sits directly on bedrock only 24-30" below grade which is unconventional but completely safe and to code.
 
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Chuckster in NJ

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Milzo said:
my 36x48 shop doesn't have footers because our ground is solid bedrock. we have a poured stem wall that sits directly on bedrock only 24-30" below grade which is unconventional but completely safe and to code.
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VERY TRUE!^^
Big *** rocks that can’t be moved or hitting bedrock is your footing.
Drilling a footing for a deck or pole barn with a auger and hit a huge rock that can’t move, that is the bottom of your footing.
 
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wrenchguy

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Dustball said:
I just picked a random city in his county to look at the permits.
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I know you tried.... but that county document is so ambiguous and lacking detail its a embarrassment to me being from indiana. I believe its a work sheet to be filled out by builder, not a guide of minimums.
 
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TryingToFixThis

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Yea, you'd need to look up your local building codes - was the house permitted? Because this information would be in the construction docs and your city would have (should have) caught any errors and redlined it for the architect to fix.. or whoever you guys used to draft up the docs. Usually a licensed engineer has to sign off on them.
 
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scottydosnntkno

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It’s hard to tell, but based on the first pic in the OP; what is now the left is the right. It appears if they dug 16” footer trenches, poured flush, two rows of 8” block, plus half the L block (4”) you’d be at 36” footer depth. Which depending on they’re requirements would be fine. It all depends on what is required locally. It’s also possible, with the insulated slab, they they will pour the slab, then set another course or two of block for raise the wall height up more.

But again, it’s clearly a house in a development, so it’s all properly permitted and designed and built
 
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