Tools of Japan

[Qualitytools]

Regarding the stubby adjustable wrenches, how would you have enough torque or leverage when using such a short handle on a large fastener.

 

[Kasal]

set of 5 Vessel screwdrivers, the price was just over € 10 about $ 10.80.

 

[measuredtwice]

Extensions 2/3, spinners 1/3 of the time for me. Glad to have them in addition to the extensions as there are times that they really help.

Not a matter of preference, but a decision based on the particular task at hand. The quick spinner has merits other than what meets the eye...like easily clocking the square anvil on the ratchet to an end of an extension that's already resting in the spark plug tube.

Thanks

set of 5 Vessel screwdrivers, the price was just over € 10 about $ 10.80.

Good deal!

 

[scubadoober]

Placed my first order with Amazon.co.jp. I placed the order on the third and it showed up today DHL. I already have a follow order in the cart lol. I am planning a torx comparison of several different brands, but will save that for another thread.

 

[measuredtwice]

Placed my first order with Amazon.co.jp. I placed the order on the third and it showed up today DHL. I already have a follow order in the cart lol. I am planning a torx comparison of several different brands, but will save that for another thread.

Good to hear that you got it so quick. With the recent spike in virus and the resulting shutdowns in Japan, I was wondering if orders were still going through. I have an order in with a delivery estimate of 2 weeks which is longer than the usual estimate from them. Hasn't been marked shipped yet but it's only been a few days.

Are the TD-BS3 Torx bits made in China? In the Vessel catalog, there's a separate section for "industrial" bits. The "industrial" Torx bits are made in Japan and each of the bits is individually marked "Japan". Some of the consumer bits aren't made in Japan.

 

[scubadoober]

Good to hear that you got it so quick. With the recent spike in virus and the resulting shutdowns in Japan, I was wondering if orders were still going through. I have an order in with a delivery estimate of 2 weeks which is longer than the usual estimate from them. Hasn't been marked shipped yet but it's only been a few days.

Are the TD-BS3 Torx bits made in China? In the Vessel catalog, there's a separate section for "industrial" bits. The "industrial" Torx bits are made in Japan and each of the bits is individually marked "Japan". Some of the consumer bits aren't made in Japan.

My order wasn't scheduled for delivery until the 14th iirc, and it didn't show shipped until Wednesday. The Vessel torx bits say made in Taiwan on the pack and the belt clip says product of Japan so probably made in Taiwan. However, the fit is excellent compared to other bits if that helps. I didn't realize before ordering they were security, but I didn't have a security set. The Ko-ken bit is stamped made in Japan and engraved Ko-ken. It is also marked 15K but I don't know what that means.

 

[measuredtwice]

My order wasn't scheduled for delivery until the 14th iirc, and it didn't show shipped until Wednesday. The Vessel torx bits say made in Taiwan on the pack and the belt clip says product of Japan so probably made in Taiwan. However, the fit is excellent compared to other bits if that helps. I didn't realize before ordering they were security, but I didn't have a security set. The Ko-ken bit is stamped made in Japan and engraved Ko-ken. It is also marked 15K but I don't know what that means.

Thanks for the info. I prefer not to buy made in Taiwan, especially after Taiwan's ban (now lifted) of PPE exports to 3M in the USA. If I buy Vessel, I want it to be made in Japan so I'll stick with their industrial bits.

 

[HenryAZ]

Placed my first order with Amazon.co.jp. I placed the order on the third and it showed up today DHL.

That has been my experience as well, with amazon.jp and DHL. Delivery in a week to 10 days.

 

[measuredtwice]

FYI, Japan post is experiencing delays shipping to the USA as of April 9. The message says delayed a week and "it will take a considerable number of days before delivery". Just a heads up.

https://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/information/2020/0409_03.html

Here's the message translated by Google.

April 9, 2020

Due to the worldwide spread of new coronavirus infections, the suspension of international mail to some countries / regions temporarily and the delay of international mail to other countries / regions due to global flight cutoffs, etc. We are telling you about the possibility.
In particular, we are currently accepting international mail destined for the United States.However, due to a significant reduction in flights and suspension of flights, we will be loading international mail addressed to the United States onto aircraft. It is expected to take more than a week.
We will work with airlines and the United States Postal Service to do our best to ship more mail quickly.
We appreciate your understanding and understanding that it will take a considerable number of days before delivery.

 

[measuredtwice]

My Amazon.co.jp order was shipped on the 14th and delivered on the 15th. That was quick! DHL doesn't seem to be delayed. That's quicker than I get delivery from the USA Amazon.

 

[bwringer]

Regarding the stubby adjustable wrenches, how would you have enough torque or leverage when using such a short handle on a large fastener.

My use case is axle nuts, usually 17, 19, 22, or 24mm, on motorcycles.

So I just get the wrench in place and push it with my foot. Once the nut moves a little, it spins off easily from there. Easy enough since it's only a foot or so off the ground.

Similarly, when tightening I use a well-placed boot to tighten sufficiently, going in small increments if I need to line up a cotter pin slot.

 

[superautobacs]

Regarding the stubby adjustable wrenches, how would you have enough torque or leverage when using such a short handle on a large fastener.

In automotive:
For setting specialty tools that don't require a lot of torque.

In tight/awkward areas:
You use a regular wrench to initially loosen the fastener, but the long length gets in the way, so then you switch to the stubby so that you can work comfortably, withouth having to deal with obstructions.

 

[Qualitytools]

In automotive:
For setting specialty tools that don't require a lot of torque.

In tight/awkward areas:
You use a regular wrench to initially loosen the fastener, but the long length gets in the way, so then you switch to the stubby so that you can work comfortably, withouth having to deal with obstructions.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Jim C.]

I spent this past winter rehabilitating a 1955 MG. Practically every single fastener on the car was Whitworth sized. Prior to buying the MG, I put together a set of early 1960s Craftsman sockets (1/2” drive) and wrenches thinking they’d get me through the project. (See first picture). What I discovered not too long after I started taking things apart was that there’s not a lot of room under the hood. The 1/2” drive tools weren’t very maneuverable and were generally too big to get into tight spots. I really needed a set of 3/8” drive and 1/4” drive Whitworth sockets. Not like I could just stop by my local hardware store and pick up a set of Whitworth sockets. Of course I turned to eBay. What I found were miscellaneous vintage Snap On sockets and wrenches that were extremely expensive or tools that were located in England and would have cost a fortune to ship.

Somewhere in one of my eBay searches, I stumbled across a set of 3/8” drive Whitworth sockets that were sort of reasonably priced being sold by a seller who was located in the USA and who offered free shipping. The sockets were made by Koken of Japan. I didn’t have too many options, the price was right and I had to keep moving on my car project. I hit “Buy It Now” and the sockets were at my door a few days later. I was a little skeptical when I bought them, but I gotta say, right out of the package I was impressed. The sockets seemed to be top notch and well made. I was not disappointed in their performance. After just a day of use, I went back on line and tracked down a couple sets of Koken 1/4” drive Whitworth sockets. They held up as well as any sockets I’ve ever used. I’m sure this is no revelation to anyone here at the “Tools of Japan” thread. I could be wrong, but I don’t think Snap On sockets have anything on Koken sockets.

Jim C.

 

[Qualitytools]

I spent this past winter rehabilitating a 1955 MG. Practically every single fastener on the car was Whitworth sized. Prior to buying the MG, I put together a set of early 1960s Craftsman sockets (1/2” drive) and wrenches thinking they’d get me through the project. (See first picture). What I discovered not too long after I started taking things apart was that there’s not a lot of room under the hood. The 1/2” drive tools weren’t very maneuverable and were generally too big to get into tight spots. I really needed a set of 3/8” drive and 1/4” drive Whitworth sockets. Not like I could just stop by my local hardware store and pick up a set of Whitworth sockets. Of course I turned to eBay. What I found were miscellaneous vintage Snap On sockets and wrenches that were extremely expensive or tools that were located in England and would have cost a fortune to ship.

Somewhere in one of my eBay searches, I stumbled across a set of 3/8” drive Whitworth sockets that were sort of reasonably priced being sold by a seller who was located in the USA and who offered free shipping. The sockets were made by Koken of Japan. I didn’t have too many options, the price was right and I had to keep moving on my car project. I hit “Buy It Now” and the sockets were at my door a few days later. I was a little skeptical when I bought them, but I gotta say, right out of the package I was impressed. The sockets seemed to be top notch and well made. I was not disappointed in their performance. After just a day of use, I went back on line and tracked down a couple sets of Koken 1/4” drive Whitworth sockets. They held up as well as any sockets I’ve ever used. I’m sure this is no revelation to anyone here at the “Tools of Japan” thread. I could be wrong, but I don’t think Snap On sockets have anything on Koken sockets.

Jim C.

Great story! Thanks for sharing. Once I discovered KOKEN sockets I am extremely pleased with them, I have the Zeal in 3/8 and love them. Beautiful car!

 

[Dave455]

I know quite a few folks who have stumbled across KoKen looking for Whitworth stuff, but have ended up with a lot more in other sizes.

In Whitworth, they are pretty much unique in offering deep sockets (both 1/4 drive BA and 3/8 drive Whit) AND universal sockets!

On another thread, a poster expressed the view that the U.S. seemed to be almost ‘bi-polar’ with regard to tools. People either bought the very best (Snap On etc) or the very cheapest (Harbor Freight etc) with very little in between. I’d started to notice that too.

Here in the U.K. I see loads that are either ‘middle ground’, or relatively top end but without the prices. Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, Elora, King ****, Facom, Beta, etc are all to be found, but it seems to me that the Japanese manufacturers have gained the most ground in recent years, KoKen in particular. Yet they seldom advertise. Seems that caring about your product, keeping quality high, yet charging reasonable prices is a good business formula!

 

[JBH]

I spent this past winter rehabilitating a 1955 MG. Practically every single fastener on the car was Whitworth sized....

Somewhere in one of my eBay searches, I stumbled across a set of 3/8” drive Whitworth sockets that were sort of reasonably priced being sold by a seller who was located in the USA and who offered free shipping. The sockets were made by Koken of Japan. ... I’m sure this is no revelation to anyone here at the “Tools of Japan” thread. I could be wrong, but I don’t think Snap On sockets have anything on Koken sockets.

Jim C.

Beautiful car! What’s the green one behind it?

Also, I continue to think the better question is, does Snapon have anything on Koken (or Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, etc) if the delivery van sales model is not relevant to you.

 

[Steve_P]

I know quite a few folks who have stumbled across KoKen looking for Whitworth stuff, but have ended up with a lot more in other sizes.

In Whitworth, they are pretty much unique in offering deep sockets (both 1/4 drive BA and 3/8 drive Whit) AND universal sockets!

On another thread, a poster expressed the view that the U.S. seemed to be almost ‘bi-polar’ with regard to tools. People either bought the very best (Snap On etc) or the very cheapest (Harbor Freight etc) with very little in between. I’d started to notice that too.

Here in the U.K. I see loads that are either ‘middle ground’, or relatively top end but without the prices. Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, Elora, King ****, Facom, Beta, etc are all to be found, but it seems to me that the Japanese manufacturers have gained the most ground in recent years, KoKen in particular. Yet they seldom advertise. Seems that caring about your product, keeping quality high, yet charging reasonable prices is a good business formula!

USA Craftsman used to be middle ground here for most tools, but that's been gone for a while with it moving offshore. We still have brands like Channellock, but, again, the "middle" has been thinned with brands dying or moving offshore. There's still SK, Williams, Wright, Proto.... but these are priced above what most US consumers will pay and aren't popular outside of the small group of people like the members of GJ.

 

[Dave455]

USA Craftsman used to be middle ground here for most tools, but that's been gone for a while with it moving offshore. We still have brands like Channellock, but, again, the "middle" has been thinned with brands dying or moving offshore. There's still SK, Williams, Wright, Proto.... but these are priced above what most US consumers will pay and aren't popular outside of the small group of people like the members of GJ.

Yes, that Craftsman was great value!

I can remember visiting the U.S. probably 15 years back when Craftsman was U.S. made. I bought back loads, mostly for a friend who was setting up, but retained a bit. The Craftsman ‘pro’ was amazing! Used to get stuff like Channelock and Estwing too.

I’m not surprised folks are angry that it’s been outsourced. I was in the U.S. last year and popped into Sears. I didn’t have high expectations but I was still disappointed. Half the place was empty space and there was nothing I’d buy in the other half. Don’t know what the plan was, but it obviously failed!

 

[Jim C.]

While I finished the MG project in early March, about two weeks ago, again searching eBay, I came across another Koken 3/8” drive Whitworth socket set that’s identical to the set I posted above. With shipping, the second set cost slightly more than half of what I paid for the first set. I was so impressed with the quality and performance of the first set, and for the price, I couldn’t pass them up! I guess I’ll just hang on to them.

Jim C.

 

[jimmyin3D]

Yes, that Craftsman was great value!



I can remember visiting the U.S. probably 15 years back when Craftsman was U.S. made. I bought back loads, mostly for a friend who was setting up, but retained a bit. The Craftsman ‘pro’ was amazing! Used to get stuff like Channelock and Estwing too.



I’m not surprised folks are angry that it’s been outsourced. I was in the U.S. last year and popped into Sears. I didn’t have high expectations but I was still disappointed. Half the place was empty space and there was nothing I’d buy in the other half. Don’t know what the plan was, but it obviously failed!

Yeah Craftsman provided a very reliable middle ground for most people. It was a real shame but I guess you could’ve seen it coming. In the US the average person expects to buy the cheapest possible and now with amazon being so dominant it’s also the quickest way to get most tools.

I hope the middle-ground manufacturers keep going though. They are fighting for there spots with new innovations like the wright grip wrench teeth and SK’s ratcheting wrench design.

It’s the prices that might hurt them in the end though. Like mentioned above Koken has excellent quality tools with very affordable prices. With makers like Proto and Williams being backed by industrial companies they should be okay too. I hate to think what companies wont survive in 20 yrs, especially with Apex and SBD consuming everything and producing lackluster products.





——————————————————————-
Check out my for sale listing in the classifieds:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438994

 

[measuredtwice]

I like Ko-ken (a lot) but I doubt the average American has heard of the brand, would want to order via a seller in a (predominantly) foreign language website, or would have confidence in an uncertain warranty. I think Ko-ken USA has an opportunity to benefit from their recent presence on the USA Amazon website but they'll need to vastly improve their effort. Currently, the selection is limited, the descriptions and photos are incomplete, and the prices and shipping are high. I'm okay buying from Japan --actually I get better and quicker service from Japan Amazon than USA Amazon. But I think better availability in the USA will increase sales.

Price for 12 piece 3/8 drive shallow socket set from Ko-ken on Amazon.co.jp is about the same as the price of the same set from Proto or Williams on Zoro.com website but Proto and Williams will be cheaper after free shipping and coupons. As far as appearance, the Ko-ken sockets look impressive. I'm new to Ko-ken and can't comment on durability or warranty though. I know that I'm happy to have them. One difference between Ko-Ken and Snap-on is that Snap-on is shallower and might be easier to start a fastener but I haven't run into any issues.

Snap-on (left) and Ko-ken (right). Snap-On is shallower.

 

[jimmyin3D]

I like Ko-ken (a lot) but I doubt the average American has heard of the brand, would want to order via a seller in a (predominantly) foreign language website, or would have confidence in an uncertain warranty. I think Ko-ken USA has an opportunity to benefit from their recent presence on the USA Amazon website but they'll need to vastly improve their effort. Currently, the selection is limited, the descriptions and photos are incomplete, and the prices and shipping are high. I'm okay buying from Japan --actually I get better and quicker service from Japan Amazon than USA Amazon. But I think better availability in the USA will increase sales.



Price for 12 piece 3/8 drive shallow socket set from Ko-ken on Amazon.co.jp is about the same as the price of the same set from Proto or Williams on Zoro.com website but Proto and Williams will be cheaper after free shipping and coupons. As far as appearance, the Ko-ken sockets look impressive. I'm new to Ko-ken and can't comment on durability or warranty though. I know that I'm happy to have them. One difference between Ko-Ken and Snap-on is that Snap-on is shallower and might be easier to start a fastener but I haven't run into any issues.

Snap-on (left) and Ko-ken (right). Snap-On is shallower.

Very true, I believe if Koken had some marketing/advertising in place they would make a killing. I also bought most of my Koken from amazon japan, when I purchased them it was about the same price of gearwrench set vs set.

Durability wise I’m not too concerned. I can’t remember the last time I broke a socket, I believe almost all manufacturers use a very durable metal combination these days that it just doesn’t happen like it used to(whether it be german, Taiwan, USA, or japan). I’ve had some Koken sockets for a few yrs and I’ve used them hard with no problems. My newer ones as well and there haven’t been any issues so far.

I noticed the “shallow” thing(socket broaching/shoulder length) you’re talking about. It’s never been a problem for me either way but my Koken deeps have about the same depth as my snap on semi deeps maybe a little bit deeper. And the impact socket is a Williams with a much shallower broaching depth.



Left to right 13mm/14mm sockets: Koken shallow, Snap on semi deep, Koken deep, and Williams impact deep








——————————————————————-
Check out my for sale listing in the classifieds:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=438994

 

[measuredtwice]

Nice photo comparisons

 

[Reed Prince]

Never knew these existed. Not even sure which thread is the best one to post this in.
They are Tools in Japan.
Wera 344954.

 

[Qualitytools]

My first introduction to KOKEN was the 3/8 Zeal set. I was so impressed by the finish and quality I ended up purchasing the Zeal 3/8 deep socket set. From the packaging on both sets to the magnetic holder and everything about the sets speaks quality of workmanship and pride.

 

[toddmorr]

finish and quality are impressive, but what really hooked me was when a Koken Zeal slid right into a very tight spot, when another respected brand was too thick in the side.

 

[kapster]

Im looking at the Tone m05 or KTC M160 long box 0 offset wrenches. Is quality pretty equal on them or is one better? Tone has a 11mm available where KTC does not, but I could probably live without it.

Are the Tone m05 made in Japan? I haven't seen that the M05 are marked Made in Japan where the KTC are, I would think they would say if they were?

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[jimmyin3D]

Im looking at the Tone m05 or KTC M160 long box 0 offset wrenches. Is quality pretty equal on them or is one better? Tone has a 11mm available where KTC does not, but I could probably live without it.

Are the Tone m05 made in Japan? I haven't seen that the M05 are marked Made in Japan where the KTC are, I would think they would say if they were?

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I know for sure the KTC are made in Japan, Tone is like maybe 60/40 Taiwan and Japan. I would personally stick with KTC for wrenches, they’ve been making them forever and the quality of there tools really speak for themselves.

 

[Steve_P]

Im looking at the Tone m05 or KTC M160 long box 0 offset wrenches. Is quality pretty equal on them or is one better? Tone has a 11mm available where KTC does not, but I could probably live without it.

Are the Tone m05 made in Japan? I haven't seen that the M05 are marked Made in Japan where the KTC are, I would think they would say if they were?

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

I have Tone M05 wrenches and they're stamped Japan. The finish is good but it's not cosmetic perfection like Snap On or most Taiwan bright chrome tools. It's satin chrome and you can see sanding marks on the beams and it's somewhat uneven- appears to be done manually on a belt sander. But if you can accept that they're tools, and not jewelry, they are very good for the $ and I'm happy with mine. Cosmetically, they're like the Stahwille offset wrenches I have and not like Tekton or Snap On.

 

[kapster]

I have Tone M05 wrenches and they're stamped Japan.

How old are they, wonder if it's changed recently? I think I did see one picture that said Japan but most do not.

So KTC should be pretty safe that it's made in Japan?

I read some others talking about Tone rebranding Taiwan ratchets, and I think they even had Japan stamped on them?

I'm ok with the finish for what they are. I was looking at mirror polish Taiwan wrenches that look to be machined from bar stock, these are actually cheaper and appear to be forged. I'd rather have forged then mirror polish.

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[superautobacs]

Kapster,

Regardless of the finish ie. matt/satin/shot-blasted finish or mirror/polished chrome finish, they will be drop-forged.

Unlike TONE, KTC is pretty transparent when it comes to COO. If it's not marked on the tool itself, it'll be mentioned on the product card/packaging.

With TONE, even if the product is forged in Taiwan, it can still have "Japan" boldly indicated.....which is very misleading. TONE has been doing this for a quite some time. So, if COO is an important part of your buying decision, then I'd stick to others, like KTC.

 

[kapster]

Kapster,



Regardless of the finish ie. matt/satin/shot-blasted finish or mirror/polished chrome finish, they will be drop-forged.



Unlike TONE, KTC is pretty transparent when it comes to COO. If it's not marked on the tool itself, it'll be mentioned on the product card/packaging.



With TONE, even if the product is forged in Taiwan, it can still have "Japan" boldly indicated.....which is very misleading. TONE has been doing this for a quite some time. So, if COO is an important part of your buying decision, then I'd stick to others, like KTC.

Agreed, I was referring to Capri and Genius wrenches that look to be machined from bar. Could be forged but look machined to me.

Maybe I'm overthinking it, are Japanese tools no better than Taiwan?

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[toddmorr]

Maybe I'm overthinking it, are Japanese tools no better than Taiwan?

can't generalize, but i'm more and more impressed with almost everything i see coming out of Taiwan. excellent attention to detail, some design innovation too. impressive.

 

[iWrench]

Ko-ken 115G.150-10 1/4"(6.35mm)h Nut Setter With Sliding Magnet

Just picked up 3 of these: 8mm, 10mm and 13mm since I use those sizes for a lot of stuff at work. The magnets are strong and spring loaded for use on studs. I love the fact I don't need to use multiple tools as before I would use the hex 1/4 adapter, an extension, and the socket. Now I grab one piece and I'm ready to roll. Ordered them from a tool shop called i-tools japan on Rakuten.

Took 3 weeks to get here but worth the wait. Is there no USA store or dealer that keeps a good selection of Koken tools in stock? I looked but couldnt find any.

 

[Qualitytools]

Frankstools carry or carried KOKEN tools and other Japan made tools, have you checked?

 

[iWrench]

Frankstools carry or carried KOKEN tools and other Japan made tools, have you checked?

I read here that Franks no longer deals with Koken. Even people who ordered from there before said it takes weeks to get things. It took me weeks to get the stuff I ordered from Rakuten so there's no difference. It would be awesome if someone would stock a good amount of Koken tools in the USA for easy ordering and shipping like most other tools we can buy here.

 

[mercifiknow]

While I was lurking here a few years ago, I stumbled across this thread while trying to decide which brand of tools to buy since I was fairly fed up with Craftsman.

My dad was a diesel mechanic and he always had SnapOn. He lost his job and sold almost every single tool he owned to pay for food and electricity. He had a couple of sockets still left and he showed me a comparison between SnapOn and others. He said there was no comparison. He also told me to buy whatever I could afford to get me by and then get a better brand when I could no matter what it was. Tools, lawnmower, etc. It is wisdom that I have taken to heart and served me well and I’ve passed it down to my kids.

I had Craftsman and it served me for years. Notice I didn’t say “serve me well”.

I saw Koken discussed here and decided to buy Some and bought from Frank’s. It took a while but I got them and they have been great. I still need Deep Well sockets and I’ll get some when I can afford them. Since Frank doesn’t sell them anymore I haven’t found an affordable place to buy from. Frank may have taken a while to get them to me, but his prices were cheap compared to where Koken-USA says to get them from.

I buy SnapOn when I can but they aren’t no where near NEW but they have been great too.




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[Reed Prince]

I read here that Franks no longer deals with Koken. Even people who ordered from there before said it takes weeks to get things. It took me weeks to get the stuff I ordered from Rakuten so there's no difference. It would be awesome if someone would stock a good amount of Koken tools in the USA for easy ordering and shipping like most other tools we can buy here.

I made an order from Franks a couple of weeks ago that included some Koken items. Perhaps he is just selling old inventory.

It did take a while for me to get an email confirming shipment, 13 days.

 

[kapster]

Does Frank's actually stock items? I assumed his stuff all came from the manufactures?

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