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JoCoSawdust

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Smokeshow, Can you please post a photo of the date code, two photos, with one "macro" showing the general area?

I'll barge in since I already have the appropriate pic on my computer. AMD boxes can often be dated by looking behind the logo, be it Heritage or Crown. Just look for the embossed AMD logo behind the badge. The earliest date I've seen is 1955 and I'm not aware of anyone with an earlier date showing. EDIT: This would leave a span of about 10 years starting after the war where AMD wasn't putting a date on their boxes.


IMG_3123.jpg
 

JoCoSawdust

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No embossing at all on the Crown roller Smoke? That's odd. My Crown top chest has the embossing with a 59 date. I know the embossing on my Heritage 8d roller is, for the most part, obscured by the drawer partitioning.
 

Smokeshow69

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No embossing at all on the Crown roller Smoke? That's odd. My Crown top chest has the embossing with a 59 date. I know the embossing on my Heritage 8d roller is, for the most part, obscured by the drawer partitioning.



I will get a better look when I pull the drawers and clean it but here is the area
IMG_0926.jpg


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JoCoSawdust

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Doesn't look like you're going to find anything there. I'll try to remember to snap a pic of my Crown embossing tomorrow. Can't miss it. And yup, we know late 58 or 59.
 

DD T/A

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Thanks for the tech guys. It just bothers and confuses the heck out of me that I have two "heritage" C-man boxes and both have "advertising metal display yada" stamping, but niether have a date code--it makes me feel like I'm looking wrong or something....:lol:
 

JoCoSawdust

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They're probably pre-55 DD. There's other ways to narrow down the time period. Number of drawer pulls, full or partial front cover etc.
 

11b30b4

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This is my Uncle’s old metal toolbox. I cannot find any marking on it at all and there is no indication of a missing data plate or decal. It looks like it was originally blue and later painted green or it could be the reverse. The design looks very similar to the Tru-Test 821 but there are quite a few differences from the examples I have seen. The shelf rests are fairly crude compared to the 821. The handles, piano hinges, and tray all look very similar to the 821. The box looks to be spot welded together however, I believe one of the features that would help identify it are the exterior corners which look to be wrapped with a support bracket.









 

Private Lugnutz

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Union. Very possibly wartime. The holes in the tray were for the spouts on old push bottom oilers.

EDIT: If you search on those terms on this thread you should get several posts with photos and info that I have posted many times before.
 
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Rileysan

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Union. Very possibly wartime. The holes in the tray were for the spouts on old push bottom oilers.

EDIT: If you search on those terms on this thread you should get several posts with photos and info that I have posted many times before.

I can't believe I've been collecting tool boxes for this long and didn't know that! :bowdown:
 

d42jeep

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Brian,
Here is a picture of my early war MVMTS as it would have looked in 11/42. You can see the Oiler in the bottom of the box and the hole for the spout by the Allen wrenches. The box is a McAleer which looks similar to the Union box posted above. You can see the spouts poking through the holes in the second picture.
-Don8ABC9A1B-545B-4F7B-AB39-72334C8EE0C9.jpg13FFB2CB-E92C-4AD8-884A-BEBE83CD9F4E.jpg
 
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Rileysan

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Brian,
Here is a picture of my early war MVMTS as it would have looked in 11/42. You can see the Oiler in the bottom of the box and the hole for the spout by the Allen wrenches. The box is a McAleer which looks similar to the Union box posted above. You can see the spouts poking through the holes in the second picture.
-Don

That is very cool! Thanks!
 

d42jeep

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This is my Uncle’s old metal toolbox. I cannot find any marking on it at all and there is no indication of a missing data plate or decal. It looks like it was originally blue and later painted green or it could be the reverse. The design looks very similar to the Tru-Test 821 but there are quite a few differences from the examples I have seen. The shelf rests are fairly crude compared to the 821. The handles, piano hinges, and tray all look very similar to the 821. The box looks to be spot welded together however, I believe one of the features that would help identify it are the exterior corners which look to be wrapped with a support bracket.










Here is an interior shot of my Union toolbox with original paint. The second picture shows the Union box with some Barcalo tools in it.
-Don
 

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Private Lugnutz

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Brian
You can imagine what would happen if the heavier contents in the bottom of the box surrounding the oiler vessel shift abruptly when being carried, which may be why so many old oilers have bent spouts. :) You can also imagine what a PITA it is to get the removable tray back into the box if the oiler is not perfectly positioned. And, lastly, you don't have to be a WWII guy but only a collector of any vintage tool or set or box or chest with nitnoid collectors' complexities to imagine the debates that have taken place over the correctness of 1 or 2 oiler holes (mainly because the illustrations of the GMTK in WWII manuals only shows 1)! :lol:

11,
Here is a link to a post here on this thread showing a GMTK I put in a Union Steel Chest Corp (Leroy, NY) flip-top box back in 2012. Slightly different shade of green than Don's and yours which is not unusual. Here is a link to a close-up of one of the supporting corner feet, if you want to compare. And lastly, while I don't think this is the case, here is a link to a Union box that outofbounds found just last year that was blue. Even though his has all the wartime characteristics, I believe it was postwar and original blue.
 
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11b30b4

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Wow, that's really cool. Thanks for the information guys. I wish it still had the badges on it but its a keeper for sure. I knew the feet would help identify it.
 
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Private Lugnutz

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I knew the feet would help identify it.
While we have studied and compared the differences in the shape of the feet, the number of elements in the piano hinge, and the tray supports on Union, Hamilton, and McAleer boxes, the quickest and easiest way to ID a Union box is the handles. See those indents on the inside of the lids? They pounded the brackets in before they spot welded them. You won't see those indents on a Hamilton or McAleer box because they did not pound those brackets in, they only spot welded them. More than you probably wanted to know - I know. :)
 

Username already in use

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Not to beat a dead horse here, but the tabs that support the top tray are unique to a Union made box as well. The other wartime manufacturers used a spot welded lip running the length of each side to support the tray as can be seen on Don's McAeleer made box.

The trays are all interchangeable and it's not unusual to find a tray from one manufacturer in a different box.

:deadhorse
 

Rileysan

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Brian
You can imagine what would happen if the heavier contents in the bottom of the box surrounding the oiler vessel shift abruptly when being carried, which may be why so many old oilers have bent spouts. :) You can also imagine what a PITA it is to get the removable tray back into the box if the oiler is not perfectly positioned. And, lastly, you don't have to be a WWII guy but only a collector of any vintage tool or set or box or chest with nitnoid collectors' complexities to imagine the debates that have taken place over the correctness of 1 or 2 oiler holes (mainly because the illustrations of the GMTK in WWII manuals only shows 1)! :lol:

11,
Here is a link to a post here on this thread showing a GMTK I put in a Union Steel Chest Corp (Leroy, NY) flip-top box back in 2012. Slightly different shade of green than Don's and yours which is not unusual. Here is a link to a close-up of one of the supporting corner feet, if you want to compare. And lastly, while I don't think this is the case, here is a link to a Union box that outofbounds found just last year that was blue. Even though his has all the wartime characteristics, I believe it was postwar and original blue.

The thought had never occurred to me regarding contents shifting around but it makes perfect sense. At the risk of opening a really big can of worms, what vehicles were these tool boxes matched with? Was it any and all, or did each vehicle type have its own variation of tools?

I sold a WWII Union box to someone here, a few years ago, and am starting to thank the stars I did. It's a rabbit hole I'm not prepared to go down!
 

Private Lugnutz

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No vehicles. They were issued, 1 each, to general mechanics, who were located at 2nd echelon maintenance depots, just behind the front lines. Those depots were often just open fields or the backs of large trucks. And they had other larger specialized tool-sets to draw from there, but the GMTK was their carry box (~50+ lbs of basic hand tools), and theirs alone. By 1944, ~150,000 GMTKs had been shipped to the ETO.

It's a rabbit hole I'm not prepared to go down!
Several years ago I designed and made a foldable GMTK collectors' guide for myself to keep in my flea market bag, to make the rabbit hole a little more navigable. For a small fee, I've made a few dozen for others since then. Let me know if you change your mind. :evil:
 

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d42jeep

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Here is another picture of my GMTK taken in 2017 after I found my rare original stenciled box. I carry one of Lugz’ guides in my flea market bag to every sale.
-Don
 

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Outlawmws

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So the thing to do for the oiler, is to, with an empty tool box, position so its easy to get the tray in, and mark the position in the bottom (to day we would use a magic marker, in WWII, probably a carpenters pencil or lumber crayon.

The real energetic would cut a piece of wood for that end and cut a hole for it...
 

Private Lugnutz

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Loading the GMTK, in general - at its peak contents quantity in January 1945, it had 115 individual pieces - is an art, a science, and an adventure to begin with, and positioning the oiler is definitely part of the magic, Outlaw. I am building my 6th kit and I am sure the other guys have their own tricks. I chalk mine. But let me tell you, once the bottom is packed, most guys don't fiddle around with them too often, and if it has to be moved, many of us take the tray out first, just to lighten the load a little! :)
 

Smokeshow69

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No vehicles. They were issued, 1 each, to general mechanics, who were located at 2nd echelon maintenance depots, just behind the front lines. Those depots were often just open fields or the backs of large trucks. And they had other larger specialized tool-sets to draw from there, but the GMTK was their carry box (~50+ lbs of basic hand tools), and theirs alone. By 1944, ~150,000 GMTKs had been shipped to the ETO.





Several years ago I designed and made a foldable GMTK collectors' guide for myself to keep in my flea market bag, to make the rabbit hole a little more navigable. For a small fee, I've made a few dozen for others since then. Let me know if you change your mind. :evil:



Lugz, this is a fantastic guide! I am not a serious military collector but really appreciate the effort that went into this! Well done


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Private Lugnutz

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Lugz, this is a fantastic guide! I am not a serious military collector but really appreciate the effort that went into this! Well done
Thank you, sir.

I was inspired by Army inventory/inspection matts for GMTK's from the 80's, which had an outline of every issued tool. You would literally lay it on the ground or a hood and put the tools on top. Easy for the first sergeant to check. Too big, of course. Also inspired by the ingenious training devices, which packed a ton of information in a small form, like the Soviet weapons wheel I still have from my regular duty time. I just mushed them together. The tiny white text in the black block is an alphabetical list of verified suppliers, with handy brand or markings cues.

I will tell you I quickly learned to not get it out and place it on the vendor's table before I asked for a price on something! :)

EDIT: Truth be told, I don't use it as often as I used to. The sizes and patent dates and other details embossed in my memory banks. But some of them are tricky. Files, for example. Different types had different cuts and different lengths that I still confuse or conflate. Same with punches. And feeler blade thicknesses. Couple other tricky things.
 
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Farmer J.

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Loading the GMTK, in general - at its peak contents quantity in January 1945, it had 115 individual pieces - is an art, a science, and an adventure to begin with, and positioning the oiler is definitely part of the magic, Outlaw. I am building my 6th kit and I am sure the other guys have their own tricks. I chalk mine. But let me tell you, once the bottom is packed, most guys don't fiddle around with them too often, and if it has to be moved, many of us take the tray out first, just to lighten the load a little! :)

My Cousin once said, when packing the tools in to his box.. "If it all goes in the box and fits easily, that means something must have been left out"!
 

dodge610

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Picked another one up think I overpaid on this one but it came with the key. And was well taken care of drawers are like butter.


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Smokeshow69

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Thank you, sir.

I was inspired by Army inventory/inspection matts for GMTK's from the 80's, which had an outline of every issued tool. You would literally lay it on the ground or a hood and put the tools on top. Easy for the first sergeant to check. Too big, of course. Also inspired by the ingenious training devices, which packed a ton of information in a small form, like the Soviet weapons wheel I still have from my regular duty time. I just mushed them together. The tiny white text in the black block is an alphabetical list of verified suppliers, with handy brand or markings cues.

I will tell you I quickly learned to not get it out and place it on the vendor's table before I asked for a price on something! :)

EDIT: Truth be told, I don't use it as often as I used to. The sizes and patent dates and other details embossed in my memory banks. But some of them are tricky. Files, for example. Different types had different cuts and different lengths that I still confuse or conflate. Same with punches. And feeler blade thicknesses. Couple other tricky things.



Totally understand the situation [emoji23] finding something you need with the diagrams out could significantly raise the price of something needlessly


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RTM

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And they had other larger specialized tool-sets to draw from there, but the GMTK was their carry box (~50+ lbs of basic hand tools), and theirs alone.

When I got my grampa’s 45 years ago, it was crammed with a mish mosh of tools, and weighed 30#, I thought that was a bear to carry to the car, and lightened it down to 20#. I could barely get it closed right at 30#, can’t imagine the jigsaw puzzle of 50+#.
 

Private Lugnutz

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...can’t imagine the jigsaw puzzle of 50+#.
There's an Army Motors magazine from WWII with a cover that is popular in our little collecting community, featuring an artist's rendering of mechanics heroically 'taking a hill' armed only with their GMTKs. I can't seem to find it, but Don or Unaiu might have it handier.

For more of an appreciation of those ~50+ #s, I posted a full list of the contents of a GMTK, and the tools in one of my kits, laid out in an early manual drawing format, in a thread linked here.
 

Rileysan

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Today's adventure took me on a ~350 mile round trip to Seattle, where I picked up this beautiful 1967 Craftsman "Super Duty" rolling cabinet and top chest. Super Duty was advertised for one year only and was the predecessor to the "Craftsman Commercial" line of tool boxes from ca. 1968 to 1977.


I can only speculate as to their reasons for changing the marketing name from Super Duty to Craftsman Commercial, but it's hard to imagine the name didn't get the attention of Ford Motor Company, which had been using that name on their pickup trucks for some time. If anyone is aware of specifics related to the name change, I'd love to hear it!

In the mean time, I'm delighted to cross another unicorn off my list!

Brian
 

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d42jeep

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I weighed both sets a few years ago. The 11/42 Motor Vehicle Mechanics Tool Set (MVMTS) in the first picture weighed in at 59 lbs. The hybrid GMTK with most all of the tools from 1938 to 1945 weighed 69 lbs. I never try to move them without removing the top trays.:( Doing my Jeep onboard toolset and these sets is what got me started collecting vintage tools.
-Don
 

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