A (Probably) Dumb Screwdriver Question

[Lesserstore]

It seems that most if not all fixed blade screwdrivers sold by companies (from HF to Snap On) targeting mechanics include flat blade screwdrivers that aren't hollow ground. I don't get it, why not have hollow ground blades? I mean the screws you are most likely to encounter are going to fit better with a hollow ground blade. When I was about 12-13 I started tinkering with guns and when my dad saw me taking apart one with a regular flat blade, he told to use only hollow ground blades. I've hardly ever used a regular flat blade since. A few months ago I was working on a 1918 Enfield rifle and there is a big screw that is deep in the stock which connects it to the receiver. My only choice was an extra long regular flat blade which I hated to use on it.
I'm not a mechanic, so is there something I not getting?

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

There isn't many slotted screws in cars. I trying to think if I've ever used one , outside prying something. The spec on slotted screws is so loose making a flat blade screwdriver that fits is difficult. Gunsmiths get around this by making the bits fit the screw.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Very few, almost zero, flat blade screws on things made in the last 30 years. Some will incorporate a flat head slot into a torx socket for some interior screws.

Flat heads are actually just small pry bars. The industry claims they are primarily designed for slotted screws, but I find that unlikely.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

The only time I have actually used a flathead on a car is my 1973 Volkswagen Super Beetle it is held together with almost all flat head screws. As for hollow ground I have no idea what that is. I have only ever heard of regular screwdrivers. I don’t use mine hardly ever because I don’t pry on things with a screwdriver cause I can’t stand the thought of misusing a tool or bending or breaking it.


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[2ndGearRubber]

The only time I have actually used a flathead on a car is my 1973 Volkswagen Super Beetle it is held together with almost all flat head screws. As for hollow ground I have no idea what that is. I have only ever heard of regular screwdrivers. I don’t use mine hardly ever because I don’t pry on things with a screwdriver cause I can’t stand the thought of misusing a tool or bending or breaking it.


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How do you check frames for rust holes without a HF flathead?

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

How do you check frames for rust holes without a HF flathead?

Lol [emoji23] we don’t see a whole lot of rust down here in the south and as for the Beetle rust it is easy to spot considering my foot almost goes thru the floor and everything on those things rust lol. I am restoring my beetle and my next mission is the floor pans just have to find someone with a welder since at my work we can’t bring in our personal cars cause of Covid so I can’t bring it in right now.


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[4xdog]

On my vintage bicycles and on my old Triumph TR there are lots of slotted screws. As noted earlier the tolerances -- even for a pretty tight fit -- are more than loose enough for the standard tip grind to work just fine.

I have some hollow ground slotted drivers. Vessel, for example, use it in their stubby driver and in their Craftsman-branded Impacta slotted. I have an old (and still available) PB Swiss driver that's one of my favorite bike tools that has a semi-hollow ground design.

So they're out there, but really don't fill a niche that makes them any more useful.

 

[Lesserstore]

The only time I have actually used a flathead on a car is my 1973 Volkswagen Super Beetle it is held together with almost all flat head screws. As for hollow ground I have no idea what that is. I have only ever heard of regular screwdrivers. I don’t use mine hardly ever because I don’t pry on things with a screwdriver cause I can’t stand the thought of misusing a tool or bending or breaking it.


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Basically all flat blade screwdriver bits, the hollow ground refers to the sides being parallel with each other thus filling the entire screw slot and, in theory anyway, give you more torque, and it's less likely to mess the screw up.
The only modern car at my house that has slotted screws is my dad's '08 Mercedes, but it's combined with torx or it has a hex bolt with a slot through it (I don't remember which).

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Basically all flat blade screwdriver bits, the hollow ground refers to the sides being parallel with each other thus filling the entire screw slot and, in theory anyway, give you more torque, and it's less likely to mess the screw up.

The only modern car at my house that has slotted screws is my dad's '08 Mercedes, but it's combined with torx or it has a hex bolt with a slot through it (I don't remember which).

Oh ok I know what you mean there thanks for helping me figure out what that means. Yeah I haven’t seen a flat head screw in a modern car in years with the exception of hose clamps which I use a nut driver for and not a screwdriver


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[Downwindtracker 2]

Come to think about ,besides gunsmithing, I've seen them in kits of electrical screwdrivers.

 

[CGarage]

It seems that most if not all fixed blade screwdrivers sold by companies (from HF to Snap On) targeting mechanics include flat blade screwdrivers that aren't hollow ground. I don't get it, why not have hollow ground blades? I mean the screws you are most likely to encounter are going to fit better with a hollow ground blade. When I was about 12-13 I started tinkering with guns and when my dad saw me taking apart one with a regular flat blade, he told to use only hollow ground blades. I've hardly ever used a regular flat blade since. A few months ago I was working on a 1918 Enfield rifle and there is a big screw that is deep in the stock which connects it to the receiver. My only choice was an extra long regular flat blade which I hated to use on it.
I'm not a mechanic, so is there something I not getting?

Not true. There is a lot you are not getting to answer the question. Look at Chapman bits and Brownell’s hollow ground bits.

Don’t be a hack. Do you know single screws can cost $15+ on some rare firearms?
That is $15.00 each.

You have to pick the tool for the job.

That is why I have over 100 screwdrivers.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Not true. There is a lot you are not getting to answer the question. Look at Chapman bits and Brownell’s hollow ground bits.

Don’t be a hack. Do you know single screws can cost $15+ on some rare firearms?
That is $15.00 each.

You have to pick the tool for the job.

That is why I have over 100 screwdrivers.

I have over 100 also I think everyone does lol the screwdrivers are what I have the most of and people always give me too or I find. They always say to never trust a mechanic who can fit all his screwdrivers in one drawer.


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[CGarage]

I have over 100 also I think everyone does lol the screwdrivers are what I have the most of and people always give me too or I find. They always say to never trust a mechanic who can fit all his screwdrivers in one drawer.


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Agreed. You have to pick the driver that has the best fit for the screw.
Otherwise you will be deforming screw heads and that can get expensive or troublesome or both.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Agreed. You have to pick the driver that has the best fit for the screw.

Otherwise you will be deforming screw heads and that can get expensive or troublesome or both.

Yep I have seen it and done it plenty of times always need the right tool to do it correctly especially tight screws don’t want the driver slipping out.


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[CGarage]

Yep I have seen it and done it plenty of times always need the right tool to do it correctly especially tight screws don’t want the driver slipping out.


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I know you are a young tech at a dealership and I applaud you for knowing this. Many who are double your age still have not mastered this understanding.
Good job for being a Pro.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I know you are a young tech at a dealership and I applaud you for knowing this. Many who are double your age still have not mastered this understanding.

Good job for being a Pro.

Oh yeah lol my dad is a truck driver and I was putting headlights in his Freightliner truck and had only brought my cheap $6 Harbor Freight set of screwdrivers (the orange and black handles) and quickly learned that quality when it comes to screwdrivers is important I had run out on all of those screws and my tip of my screwdriver had started to deform so before doing the other side I went home since it was Sunday couldn’t go to the dealership so I got my Mac screwdriver from home and took it there done it with no problem and I got new screws and put in the other side to make my dad happy and make it easier for the next guy which probably is going to be me lol. I appreciate you not criticizing me for being young and saying what I have experienced as many members on here have done.


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[Downwindtracker 2]

I just hollow grind bit to fit the rifle as needed. Besides having the Brownnell kit.

The taper on run of the mill screwdrivers is perfect wedging open Browning couplings for sheaves.

 

[nadogail]

I may be mistaken, but I think Wiha makes hollow ground screwdrivers.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I just hollow grind bit to fit the rifle as needed. Besides having the Brownnell kit.

The taper on run of the mill screwdrivers is perfect wedging open Browning couplings for sheaves.

Glad you have found a solution for it


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[CGarage]

I may be mistaken, but I think Wiha makes hollow ground screwdrivers.

They do, if you buy one of the micro bit sets. I have one and it is very nice.
The bits are all tool steel and the fit is great.

 

[Lesserstore]

Not true. There is a lot you are not getting to answer the question. Look at Chapman bits and Brownell’s hollow ground bits.

Don’t be a hack. Do you know single screws can cost $15+ on some rare firearms?
That is $15.00 each.

You have to pick the tool for the job.

That is why I have over 100 screwdrivers.

I needed a blade around 16" long. I've never seen a hollow ground screwdriver that long and fortunately it's a cheap screw and I'll never have to take it out again unless the stock were to break. I just recently upgraded my HF bits to an Ideal USA 32 piece set with screwdriver for $17 on Amazon. I looked at Chapman and Brownells before, but I couldn't afford them. Any suggestions on how to grind a regular style to a hollow ground? I've tried several times and failed.

 

[CGarage]

Oh yeah lol my dad is a truck driver and I was putting headlights in his Freightliner truck and had only brought my cheap $6 Harbor Freight set of screwdrivers (the orange and black handles) and quickly learned that quality when it comes to screwdrivers is important I had run out on all of those screws and my tip of my screwdriver had started to deform so before doing the other side I went home since it was Sunday couldn’t go to the dealership so I got my Mac screwdriver from home and took it there done it with no problem and I got new screws and put in the other side to make my dad happy and make it easier for the next guy which probably is going to be me lol. I appreciate you not criticizing me for being young and saying what I have experienced as many members on here have done.


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Well done for helping your pop. Even better, you want to learn and want to do it right. Too many young guys have no care and no attention for detail and understanding that how the job is done is what actually counts.

 

[pizza]

Basically all flat blade screwdriver bits, the hollow ground refers to the sides being parallel with each other thus filling the entire screw slot and, in theory anyway, give you more torque, and it's less likely to mess the screw up.
The only modern car at my house that has slotted screws is my dad's '08 Mercedes, but it's combined with torx or it has a hex bolt with a slot through it (I don't remember which).

well, not all hollow ground tips have a very long section that's (close to) parallel, but regardless, they sink deeper into the fastener's slot than a tapered tip, so you get better fit.

why are they less common? one reason may be cost, not sure.

but hollow ground is also probably less sturdy than taper.
people like to abuse screwdrivers, especially slotted screwdrivers!

btw, are you familiar with pbswiss's 'parallel tip' slotted drivers? i have a set. they're dope.

here's some info:
https://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423289&showall=1

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Well done for helping your pop. Even better, you want to learn and want to do it right. Too many young guys have no care and no attention for detail and understanding that how the job is done is what actually counts.

Thanks. And yes I believe quality work is the key to success there is a reason I moved to the actual shop from the lube rack at such an early time it’s because I took pride and done what I knew was right and if I messed up I admitted fault and took care of it properly. In high school my automotive teacher always told me in order to succeed in the field you must do good work and make good relations with people and to me not running out the screws is definitely part of quality work and I couldn’t stand the thought of messing something up and not fixing it back correctly.


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[Downwindtracker 2]

I have saying, " Sweat the details and the big picture takes care of itself."

 

[CGarage]

Thanks. And yes I believe quality work is the key to success there is a reason I moved to the actual shop from the lube rack at such an early time it’s because I took pride and done what I knew was right and if I messed up I admitted fault and took care of it properly. In high school my automotive teacher always told me in order to succeed in the field you must do good work and make good relations with people and to me not running out the screws is definitely part of quality work and I couldn’t stand the thought of messing something up and not fixing it back correctly.


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He gave you very good advice and even better, you listened.
By following just this advice, it will take you very far in life.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

He gave you very good advice and even better, you listened.

By following just this advice, it will take you very far in life.

I am one of the few that listened and one of the few from that class that actually was successful in this field most of them didn’t last 6 months in this field. The teacher helped me get my job that I have now the dealerships calls him and ask if anyone is looking for a job so he sent me to them and told them I would be perfect for what they need and i must have been.


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[RTM]

If you take a regular tapered screwdriver, and grind it "flat" to the wheel, you can make it a parallel sided screwdriver (or close enough if your wheel is big enough).

Hollow ground implies you are following the curve of the wheel, so the tip of the edge, and the high point at the shank are in a plane, and everything in between is lower. You can also reproduce this on a grinder by going with the wheel.

You can grind down any cheap screwdriver to the size you need, if the steel is good enough it should work.

 

[visionguru]

It seems that most if not all fixed blade screwdrivers sold by companies (from HF to Snap On) targeting mechanics include flat blade screwdrivers that aren't hollow ground. I don't get it, why not have hollow ground blades? I mean the screws you are most likely to encounter are going to fit better with a hollow ground blade. When I was about 12-13 I started tinkering with guns and when my dad saw me taking apart one with a regular flat blade, he told to use only hollow ground blades. I've hardly ever used a regular flat blade since. A few months ago I was working on a 1918 Enfield rifle and there is a big screw that is deep in the stock which connects it to the receiver. My only choice was an extra long regular flat blade which I hated to use on it.
I'm not a mechanic, so is there something I not getting?

A mechanic is going to hate hollow ground blades, because the flat screwdriver is almost never used on any screws. Instead, flat screwdrivers are pry bars, scrapers, chisels, and poking tool. A hollow ground screwdriver is probably not as good in those tasks.

I have PB Swiss flat drivers that are hollow ground. Practically useless for a mechanic.

 

[CGarage]

Any individual who uses a flat screwdriver as a pry bar shouldn’t be working professionally...

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Any individual who uses a flat screwdriver as a pry bar shouldn’t be working professionally...

My thoughts exactly lol [emoji23] I don’t use them as a pry bar or chisel I can’t stand the thought of bending or breaking one when I would help my dad he would always pry stuff with them he bent my Snap-on pocket screwdriver prying a rock out of his tire i was so pissed so I went on the tool truck and my dealer gave me another at that point I was the happiest one in the shop that day.


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[jeffmoss26]

I use my Snap-on pocket clip flathead for 27 different things on a daily basis!

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I use my Snap-on pocket clip flathead for 27 different things on a daily basis!

Lol my dad is rough on things and bent mine up


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[CGarage]

I use my Snap-on pocket clip flathead for 27 different things on a daily basis!

That’s a forgivable tool offense.

 

[CGarage]

My thoughts exactly lol [emoji23] I don’t use them as a pry bar or chisel I can’t stand the thought of bending or breaking one when I would help my dad he would always pry stuff with them he bent my Snap-on pocket screwdriver prying a rock out of his tire i was so pissed so I went on the tool truck and my dealer gave me another at that point I was the happiest one in the shop that day.


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Nice work....but you have to use the right tool for the job

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Nice work....but you have to use the right tool for the job

I know lol [emoji23] my dad is all about getting the job done but to me if I know it will harm the tool I won’t do it


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[Downwindtracker 2]

Any individual who uses a flat screwdriver as a pry bar shouldn’t be working professionally...

Don't you think it would depend on the screwdriver ? I have a set of three Irwin perfect pattern screwdrivers I bought 40 years ago, no way would I use them as a pry bar, but the Truecraft ones I bought for $1.99 out of a clearance bin, that's a different story.

 

[CGarage]

Use a pry bar. Not a sacrificial tool. It makes for bad habits.

 

[Semi-hole mechanic]

Any individual who uses a flat screwdriver as a pry bar shouldn’t be working professionally...

Just a DIYer so I have a question...
How do you remove trailer hub dust caps without using a flat screw driver?

 

[measuredtwice]

You will get a much different response from folks who use slotted screwdrivers as... screwdrivers... instead of scrapers, chisels, pry bars.

You might take a look at Grace USA (gun smithing) and PB Swiss (VSM Swiss standard). There's even a set from Dewalt that has hollow ground blades --probably made in Taiwan or China. --> https://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/dewalt-max-fit-4-pc-assorted-screwdriver-set/0000000260788