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The VISES of Garage Journal

Fierljeppen

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I have been busy since December and finally got around to wrapping up this Prentiss 58. Started this guy in 2013, slowly finished it. To much to list here on all the work I did so I wrote a blog about it. If interested in seeing all my repair work I did I'll add a link. This guy is going back home to NY. Sold it to a good customer that I promised it to 5 years ago. It is a big vise, not one you bolt to a bench, needs a stand like one of those railroad stands. 8-1/2" jaws that opens to 11 inches and weights around 300lbs. Jaws are bigger then the Wilton 800's. Which I considered the heaviest jaws out there that are original.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2020/08/30/restoring-a-prentiss-58/

The photos by themselves are fun, but the blog really adds life to the story.

If this is what your going to be doing in your retirement, for selfish reasons, I wish you would've retired years ago. Really good stuff!
 
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wrenchguy

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I have been busy since December and finally got around to wrapping up this Prentiss 58. Started this guy in 2013, slowly finished it. To much to list here on all the work I did so I wrote a blog about it. If interested in seeing all my repair work I did I'll add a link. This guy is going back home to NY. Sold it to a good customer that I promised it to 5 years ago. It is a big vise, not one you bolt to a bench, needs a stand like one of those railroad stands. 8-1/2" jaws that opens to 11 inches and weights around 300lbs. Jaws are bigger then the Wilton 800's. Which I considered the heaviest jaws out there that are original.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2020/08/30/restoring-a-prentiss-58/

Inspiring!! Gotta do something with the 1 i take care of!

comparison to a 577.


 

Vise

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I have been busy since December and finally got around to wrapping up this Prentiss 58. Started this guy in 2013, slowly finished it. To much to list here on all the work I did so I wrote a blog about it. If interested in seeing all my repair work I did I'll add a link. This guy is going back home to NY. Sold it to a good customer that I promised it to 5 years ago. It is a big vise, not one you bolt to a bench, needs a stand like one of those railroad stands. 8-1/2" jaws that opens to 11 inches and weights around 300lbs. Jaws are bigger then the Wilton 800's. Which I considered the heaviest jaws out there that are original.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2020/08/30/restoring-a-prentiss-58/

Hell of a job Kevin! Love the blog post with all the details. Looks like you’re enjoying retirement!
 

Shiftless

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East Bay SFO
I have been busy since December and finally got around to wrapping up this Prentiss 58. Started this guy in 2013, slowly finished it. To much to list here on all the work I did so I wrote a blog about it. If interested in seeing all my repair work I did I'll add a link. This guy is going back home to NY. Sold it to a good customer that I promised it to 5 years ago. It is a big vise, not one you bolt to a bench, needs a stand like one of those railroad stands. 8-1/2" jaws that opens to 11 inches and weights around 300lbs. Jaws are bigger then the Wilton 800's. Which I considered the heaviest jaws out there that are original.

https://wiltonviseparts.wordpress.com/2020/08/30/restoring-a-prentiss-58/

Kevin:
You’ve done another fantastic restoration on that rare Prentiss. The blog you included covering all of your precise work is a great resource and an inspiration to all of us. Thanks for posting and continue to enjoy your retirement.
 

PghJKB

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This adv. points to it being in the 761 line of Stanley vises, if not user modified.
Can be clamped, screwed or bolted to a bench.


attachment.php


akasrick

Do you know the year this catalog was published? Looks like 1930s?

PghJKB
 

va.grouseman

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Southern-Central VA.
KMS, that is some real pretty work.---I love pretty work and I pay close attention to tolerances, and plankton couldn't weave it's way through the teeth on those jaws.---That's the mark of a perfectionist.

Now concerning knowledge of the procedures and how to accomplish such a feat, I am 0 qualified as an authority or stand in position to critique anyone's work especially not yours.---So I'm going take the position of a fellow named Dickydo, yes Dickydo, who the crew I worked for was tying his concrete driveway back into the road that was widened in front of his house.---We had to pour a 15' section with a flare back to new pavement.---He was already very irate with the whole widening process so he came out of his house, walked up to us and proclaimed emphatically, ("I don't know one thing about cement work, but I'll know if it ain't right"!!).---KM that #58 is right!
 

KMScott

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Daufuskie Island, South Carolina
Thanks guys for all your comments. I missed working on vises, got another one almost finished that will be my own for use, this will be it for a while. Time is running out here in Colorado. Setting up shop in South Carolina.
 

Shiftless

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Thanks guys for all your comments. I missed working on vises, got another one almost finished that will be my own for use, this will be it for a while. Time is running out here in Colorado. Setting up shop in South Carolina.


After all of the vises that have passed through your skilled hands and all of the work you’ve done for others, I am looking forward to seeing what vise you selected to be your “own”.

Again, enjoy your retirement time. I’m sure you’re anxious to get settled there on the east coast.
 
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sgtgeo

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Jan 20, 2019
Messages
109
Location
North Carolina
Picked up the Wilton C1 today.

1978 vintage.

Spindle/horseshoe groove is badly worn.

Everything else looks great. Got it cheap enough I’m considering just ordering a new spindle assembly. Unless of course someone has a used one for sale here.

The p/n looks to be 2900030. Anyone know the difference between that p/n and 2900330?

Thanks
 

Fierljeppen

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Jan 26, 2018
Messages
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The date stamp from that era is the 5-year guarantee expiration date, making your vise a 1973 vintage.

Although I'm probably alone with that theory, I stand by it.



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Smitty

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I found this beast at a swap meet today. It’s a Morgan 360B, it has 6” jaws and weighs in at 164 lbs. the vise is in beautiful condition with barely a hammer mark on it. Getting it in the truck was the hard part.
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davethorik

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Location
Norka, Ohio
Pickups today:
Prentiss 526
Versa-Vise (i think...sticker is gone)
 

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Smitty

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Thanks VA, I’m going to eventually do a black metal oil finish on it.

Nice Prentiss Dave and the original handle is always a plus.
 

Shiftless

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Smitty:
Yeah, that Morgan will look great in black oil. Another nice looking vise for your ever growing collection. I wouldn’t be too surprised if you have moved into the last category in my poll “how many vises do you own?” The poll ends tonight. 260 tallies as of now.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457998

Dave:
Nice Prentiss you found. And not to forget the Versa Vise too. That’s definitely what you have there. Somewhere stashed away I have a few reproduction oval stickers. If you feel like repainting that one, you’ll want a sticker, right?
For reference, here is a red VV with the sticker I had made, and an orange VV with the factory sticker.

BTW, that mysterious chunk of steel in the first pic is the rare flush mount bench accessory. (Displayed upside down) You can rout out a chunk of your bench top and drill a big hole in your bench top and mount this piece so that you’ve got a retractable steel post to mount your Versa vise and then later remove the vise and it will retract to be flush with your bench top.
 

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davethorik

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Va, believe me i know. I have a 456 with it missing. I haven't been able to find one...maybe someone will have a parts vise some day.:lol:

Smitty, thanks. That morgan is a beaut. One brand i have still never owned. Lools a lot like a Reed.

Shift- i guess i meant is there another way to i.d. without the sticker. i think Columbian Gyro vises were the same vise but had a different sticker. And both brownells and garrett wade sold versions of this that were made in the USA. The part numbers on my vise correspond to VV/Gyro vise part #s.

That flush mount is sweet, dont think ive seen anything other than pipe jaws, the regular base, and the tilt attachment. I bet that would go for big bucks on eprey. They made a clamp-on base too, I'd love to find one. I have been sitting on 4 NOS boxed pairs of pipe jaws i found at habitat for humanity restore, of all places, about 3 miles from Will-burt, the mfg in Orrville.
 

Shiftless

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Dave:
I don’t have a gyro vise, just my 2 Versa vises.
Now that you mention it, I can’t say what separates the Gyro from the Versa.
We’ll have to do a side by side comparison.

I noticed that the ends of the handles on yours are flattened and mine are ball shaped. The gyro vise images I found online all have ball shaped ends.

Maybe this will help. Here is a close up of a detail on mine. My red one and orange one both have these same numbers.

Does your vise have these numbers on the side opposite where the label should be?

4-1043-5


.
 

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Private Lugnutz

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The date stamp from that era is the 5-year guarantee expiration date, making your vise a 1973 vintage.

Although I'm probably alone with that theory, I stand by it.
You have my curiosity here, Fierljeppen. The only explicit Wilton 5-Year Guarantee production era that I am aware of is ~1954 through ~1961, when keys were explicitly stamped with a date 5 years in advance, but always accompanied by "GUAR. EXP.", identifying the date without any doubt or interpretation required as a guarantee expiration date postdated 5 years in advance of its production, i.e., vises stamped "GUAR EXP. 4-59" through GUAR. EXP. 7-66" made between April 1954 and July 1966.

bluebolt's database doesn't have a large sample of vises made in the 70's, but of the dozen or so it includes, the date stamp is not accompanied by the "GUAR. EXP." mark. So, knowing my respect for your research, I know you won't take this as a challenge, but I am curious about the backup on your theory. Ads? Catalog? Inquiring minds want to know! :)
 

Shiftless

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Yes, it does shift. Same ones, same spot.

So I’m coming to the realization that there is absolutely no difference between the Versa Vise and the Gyro Vise except for the paper label.
Could that be true?

Update:
I guess it really is true.
I found this on the web. Posted on Facebook a while back.
 

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Fierljeppen

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You have my curiosity here, Fierljeppen. The only explicit Wilton 5-Year Guarantee production era that I am aware of is ~1954 through ~1961, when keys were explicitly stamped with a date 5 years in advance, but always accompanied by "GUAR. EXP.", identifying the date without any doubt or interpretation required as a guarantee expiration date postdated 5 years in advance of its production, i.e., vises stamped "GUAR EXP. 4-59" through GUAR. EXP. 7-66" made between April 1954 and July 1966.

bluebolt's database doesn't have a large sample of vises made in the 70's, but of the dozen or so it includes, the date stamp is not accompanied by the "GUAR. EXP." mark. So, knowing my respect for your research, I know you won't take this as a challenge, but I am curious about the backup on your theory. Ads? Catalog? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Private Lugnutz...Greetings and salutations! First off, much respect to everyone who participated in the Wilton date-stamp thread. I actually was in complete agreement with that thread's theory, until I noticed a 1963/1964 Wilton catalog that stated "expiration date stamped on each vise". That would mean the 1968 and 1969 vises would have the "GUAR EXP" on them, which they do not. That basically started my inquiry.

Bluebolt's database was a great resource to start with, so I started my own database, mostly from the 1970's and 1980's. I noticed Wilton came out with new models in the 1971/1972 catalog, but I couldn't find any of those vises with those dates stamped on them. The very earliest date-stamp I could find of the newer model was "10-75". Every other date-stamp I've found on the newer models were post 1976. The graphics on the vises stamped (1976-1979) also reflected pre-1974 Wilton graphics.

Then, I was inquiring about a Wilton 450S with someone, who said their dad had bought it just before he passed in 1973. I asked him to look for the date-stamp on the slide and he was so confused when he found a 1977 date-stamp.

The Wilton Tradesman vises were first introduced in 1968/1969, but the earliest date-stamp I could find was stamped 1972. The Tradesman had a 3-year guarantee.

Anyway, my feelings are that Wilton just stopped stamping the "GUAR EXP" as it was an extra unnecessary step for them. As an amateur historian, like yourself, I'm very open-minded about changing my opinion, based on newer and more accurate information. For reasons, I'm not going to explain, the truth is so important to me, so I'm told. I don't have to like what I hear, I absolutely need to believe what I hear.

Much respect to you Private Lugnutz! My quote for the day is "vises/vices are supposed to be fun".
 

Private Lugnutz

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Anyway, my feelings are that Wilton just stopped stamping the "GUAR EXP" as it was an extra unnecessary step for them.
Makes perfect sense to me! Thanks. I knew there had to be a story there! :)

Note, though, that this doesn't negate or change the research and information on the guarantees and the stamps on keys prior to that (i.e., the 40's through the 60's) and how to interpret those. That empirical data (98% of bluebolt's database) is also backed up by ads and other documents that Outlaw and I found.
 

PghJKB

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Private Lugnutz...Greetings and salutations! First off, much respect to everyone who participated in the Wilton date-stamp thread. I actually was in complete agreement with that thread's theory, until I noticed a 1963/1964 Wilton catalog that stated "expiration date stamped on each vise". That would mean the 1968 and 1969 vises would have the "GUAR EXP" on them, which they do not. That basically started my inquiry.

Bluebolt's database was a great resource to start with, so I started my own database, mostly from the 1970's and 1980's. I noticed Wilton came out with new models in the 1971/1972 catalog, but I couldn't find any of those vises with those dates stamped on them. The very earliest date-stamp I could find of the newer model was "10-75". Every other date-stamp I've found on the newer models were post 1976. The graphics on the vises stamped (1976-1979) also reflected pre-1974 Wilton graphics.

Then, I was inquiring about a Wilton 450S with someone, who said their dad had bought it just before he passed in 1973. I asked him to look for the date-stamp on the slide and he was so confused when he found a 1977 date-stamp.

The Wilton Tradesman vises were first introduced in 1968/1969, but the earliest date-stamp I could find was stamped 1972. The Tradesman had a 3-year guarantee.

Anyway, my feelings are that Wilton just stopped stamping the "GUAR EXP" as it was an extra unnecessary step for them. As an amateur historian, like yourself, I'm very open-minded about changing my opinion, based on newer and more accurate information. For reasons, I'm not going to explain, the truth is so important to me, so I'm told. I don't have to like what I hear, I absolutely need to believe what I hear.

Much respect to you Private Lugnutz! My quote for the day is "vises/vices are supposed to be fun".

Makes perfect sense to me! Thanks. I knew there had to be a story there! :)

Note, though, that this doesn't negate or change the research and information on the guarantees and the stamps on keys prior to that (i.e., the 40's through the 60's) and how to interpret those. That empirical data (98% of bluebolt's database) is also backed up by ads and other documents that Outlaw and I found.


My 2¢:
A case were both of you are correct and DO NOT contradict.

Just wanted to throw this in:
From https://www.wiltontools.com/us/en/company/history/

In 1970’s Wilton had discovered the retail market needed a quality vise line and opened an additional manufacturing facility in Winchester, TN for production of smaller less expensive vise to meet the needs of the hobbist and DIYer. Simultaneously in the Winchester facility, Wilton began manufacturing a metalworking machinery line. The first products in this category were drill presses and bandsaws.

Looks like Wilton got busier in the 1970's. Makes sense to eliminate the GAUR EXP - tooling costs go down, labor costs go down (no more need for the stampings or and time consumed by the stampings goes down). After all, something has to pay the merger costs. :) :mad:

Spelling errors within the quoted text are the responsibility of the website.

PghJKB
 

davethorik

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So I’m coming to the realization that there is absolutely no difference between the Versa Vise and the Gyro Vise except for the paper label.
Could that be true?

Update:
I guess it really is true.
I found this on the web. Posted on Facebook a while back.

Shift, still doing some digging, but Fierljeppen tipped me off that my Versa-Vise was most likely made by Gaydash Industries of Uniontown, OH. They apparently made the VV after Will-Burt had stopped, but I need to do more research on the timeline.

Here is a pic i found on worthpoint of a Gaydash VV sticker. It looks to be gold metallic and smaller than the original sticker. It looks cheesy, no surprise it fell off. Picture quality ***** but you get the idea.
 

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Fierljeppen

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Makes perfect sense to me! Thanks. I knew there had to be a story there! :)

Note, though, that this doesn't negate or change the research and information on the guarantees and the stamps on keys prior to that (i.e., the 40's through the 60's) and how to interpret those. That empirical data (98% of bluebolt's database) is also backed up by ads and other documents that Outlaw and I found.

I'm absolutely in accordance with that, I should have made that point.

My 2¢:
A case were both of you are correct and DO NOT contradict.

Just wanted to throw this in:
From https://www.wiltontools.com/us/en/company/history/

In 1970’s Wilton had discovered the retail market needed a quality vise line and opened an additional manufacturing facility in Winchester, TN for production of smaller less expensive vise to meet the needs of the hobbist and DIYer. Simultaneously in the Winchester facility, Wilton began manufacturing a metalworking machinery line. The first products in this category were drill presses and bandsaws.

Looks like Wilton got busier in the 1970's. Makes sense to eliminate the GAUR EXP - tooling costs go down, labor costs go down (no more need for the stampings or and time consumed by the stampings goes down). After all, something has to pay the merger costs. :) :mad:

Spelling errors within the quoted text are the responsibility of the website.

PghJKB

The Wilton Company History website is a complete joke. There are so many errors, I can't use any information from them as credible. The old saying holds true with me, "lie to me once, shame on you, lie to me twice, shame on me".

Thanks for chiming in!
 

Old Radar

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I'm having deja vu. I know that I've read these arguments about mfg dates vs. Guar Exp dates before. Could it have been on the Wilton Date Stamp thread? I seem to recall some conclusions being drawn, too--like a gap in the mid 70's. I know Drivesitfar was the thread starter.
 

sgtgeo

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I'm having deja vu. I know that I've read these arguments about mfg dates vs. Guar Exp dates before. Could it have been on the Wilton Date Stamp thread? I seem to recall some conclusions being drawn, too--like a gap in the mid 70's. I know Drivesitfar was the thread starter.

I now have 2 Wilton Cs. Just need a C2 and a C0. Lol

Where is the database. I’d like to add my two 70’s era vises.

ETA almost forgot the baby bullet I had powder coated pink for my wife’s desk

ETA what decal goes in the shield shaped relief in the C1 dynamic? Anyone making repos?

Thanks
 
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Smitty

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I was able to put a deal together with the seller from Colorado for the Wilton. This is a Wilton 450SJ, it has 4 1/2” jaws and weighs in at 72 lbs. The vise has been gently used and the jaws are like new. It has Guar Exp 12 31 63 stamped on the keyway. I’d like to thank Kevin Scott for procuring the vise for me.8b09b48f8556160f4ed7be3151d51ed4.jpg57887e9ad3f642d0dbf4d0aa72a38727.jpg42429fa570958d2b539cc7d9b1ad2d51.jpg4b079a246f7ba31aa47a62e7ca87d01b.jpg3958ff4207ed26ad2ed7e0935e5be2ec.jpg


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Private Lugnutz

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A case where both of you are correct and DO NOT contradict.
I know that I've read these arguments about mfg dates vs. Guar Exp dates before.
Just for the record, we weren't arguing. Fierljeppen stated an interesting and novel theory about 70's key stamps being heretofore unrecognized 5-year postdated guarantee markings, a theory that I had never seen before, including the Wilton Dating thread. As I pointed out, and as Fierljeppen recognizes here...
I'm absolutely in accordance with that, I should have made that point.
...his findings don't contradict the conclusions we have made about the 40's and 50's stamps being production dates and the -59 to -66 'EX. GUAR' stamps being '54 to '61 vises. His observations and theory extend our knowledge base about the 70's vises and stamps. The "gap" you are probably thinking of, Old Radar, is no Wilton vises with "-54" to "-61" stampings. That's because vises in that period were postdated with 5-year guarantee dates.
 

Private Lugnutz

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Where is the database. I’d like to add my two 70’s era vises.
It sort of ran out of steam after it reached 'statistical mass', if I could coin a phrase, allowing a fairly large sample size to draw conclusions. You could reach out to bluebolt. I'm not sure my copy is current. Maybe he'll agree to add your vises. Or maybe, if there's enough interest, someone else could take over duties filling it out with more 70's vises.
 

Old Radar

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Just for the record, we weren't arguing.

The "gap" you are probably thinking of, Old Radar, is no Wilton vises with "-54" to "-61" stampings. That's because vises in that period were postdated with 5-year guarantee dates.

No argumentative hostility implied--I was thinking more of courtroom type presentations.

I think you are correct about the gap I was thinking about.
 

Shiftless

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Mar 9, 2014
Messages
14,541
Location
East Bay SFO
smitty:
Nice score!
I’m glad that you could arrange to purchase that 450SJ. It’s good that you were able to close the deal before Kevin left town. That’s a long drive from your place to Estes Park CO. I wouldn’t trust just anyone to pack that vise up and ship to CA.
 

Smitty

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Messages
2,409
Location
USA
Thanks shift, I actually managed to get the seller down about 25%. I’ve had a lot of vises shipped to me over the years but I must say Kevin holds the record for best pack job yet.
 
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b.well

Well-known member
Joined
May 13, 2020
Messages
391
Location
NY
Here is possibly the oldest vise I have seen. Has a patent date from the 1800s. Charles Parker. It came up for sale in my local FB Market. Seller asking $150. I am not really looking to buy it but thought it was interesting to share.
 

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Shiftless

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
14,541
Location
East Bay SFO
b.well:
That is certainly an oldie. The through the bench top mount and the patent date makes that one definitely well over 100 years old.
For Parker collectors or others like me who just like a variety of makers and styles, that would be a real find. To me, that price is not far out of line if the mounting hardware is still there. The big cast iron wing nut is often damaged or missing entirely.
 

Shiftless

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
14,541
Location
East Bay SFO
Thanks to everyone who tallied up their vises and entered the number into the poll I’ve been running the last couple of months. The poll is now closed. It’s remarkable to me how similar the results are comparing numbers from 2018 and the latest one 2020.
Here are the results with bar graphs, numbers, and percentages.

Look at the doubling of the percentage of respondents who have 51-100 vises.
Other categories are remarkably stable year to year.
Also, the number of entries (261 to 265) is almost exactly the same, even though 2 years have passed.

.
 

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