How the Phillips Screwdriver Took Over America

[PFSard]

How the Phillips Screwdriver Took Over America
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu.../a33490602/phillips-head-screwdriver-history/
AUG 31, 2020

There is a book (referenced in the article) that might prove interesting reading. Or not. :

One Good Turn: A Natural History of the Screwdriver and the Screw
Witold Rybczynski

 

[Ton ton]

Interesting.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The original video

Robertson, Phillips, and the History of the Screwdriver

 

[TuxThePenguin]

I watched that video (and have read other stuff on the topic). I came out of it thinking, okay, Phillips was easier to license and Ford got the license and blah blah blah.

But it's an inferior product. No fastener in the world strips out half as easily as them. Every single human being on the planet has probably sworn at a Phillips screw stripping out.

But somehow the reasons we got them were more important than the drawback of it being a terrible product? Why did so few people/companies care about delivering a product that people could use?

All this talk about how camming out was so useful for early manufacturing machines. How the licensing was so much better for companies like Ford. But as a consumer, I don't care about those things and I'm not sure why this terrible screw design was so excessively successful. If Ford loved those screws so much, he could have bought them. But anyone using a hand screwdriver would've benefitted more with a non-cam-out screw design. Why were those needs ignored? Maybe I'm too young to understand just how much pull a company like Ford had? I don't know. It just seems crazy to me. Like "Okay, Ford liked them... so what?" and "Okay, so the design was offered as a license, which made things easy, but the product was ****..."

(yes, I REALLY hate Phillips screws)

 

[Lucid Moments]

I watched that video (and have read other stuff on the topic). I came out of it thinking, okay, Phillips was easier to license and Ford got the license and blah blah blah.

But it's an inferior product. No fastener in the world strips out half as easily as them. Every single human being on the planet has probably sworn at a Phillips screw stripping out.

But somehow the reasons we got them were more important than the drawback of it being a terrible product? Why did so few people/companies care about delivering a product that people could use?

All this talk about how camming out was so useful for early manufacturing machines. How the licensing was so much better for companies like Ford. But as a consumer, I don't care about those things and I'm not sure why this terrible screw design was so excessively successful. If Ford loved those screws so much, he could have bought them. But anyone using a hand screwdriver would've benefitted more with a non-cam-out screw design. Why were those needs ignored? Maybe I'm too young to understand just how much pull a company like Ford had? I don't know. It just seems crazy to me. Like "Okay, Ford liked them... so what?" and "Okay, so the design was offered as a license, which made things easy, but the product was ****..."

(yes, I REALLY hate Phillips screws)

Because any manufacturer or designer, or salesman would far rather deal with one buyer who will buy a million items than a million buyers who are going to buy one each.

 

[zendriver]

LOL how many Phillips head screws have we removed that we haven’t stripped off?

FWIWLI ran across a couple slotted stainless steel screws recently in a hard to get area of the boat.

Remind me of how much they ****.




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[CGarage]

Great thread!

 

[PugetDude]

How the Phillips Screwdriver Took Over America
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu.../a33490602/phillips-head-screwdriver-history/
AUG 31, 2020

There is a book (referenced in the article) that might prove interesting reading. Or not. :

One Good Turn: A Natural History of the Screwdriver and the Screw
Witold Rybczynski

Road and Track is still in business?

 

[WinMod21]

And... a fine thread

 

[Lassen Forge]

I think the thread has cammed out.

 

[woody 73]

Some fun reading if you are interested.

https://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329052&highlight=henry+phillips

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

here is a vid on them

They are the work of the devil, using them we get so mad we curse them and then everything, it's just a short step further and our eternal souls are lost. So I throw them away and use Robertson.

 

[Ralf11]

It's good that we can blame Henry Ford.

But the real issue is how can we get rid of this spawn of the devil, and then enjoy a Phillips Free World?

#PFW

 

[Junkdrawer Dog]

Article makes perfect sense. Phillips screws and Fords have caused me about the same amount of grief in my lifetime, lol!

 

[richfinn]

I watched that video (and have read other stuff on the topic). I came out of it thinking, okay, Phillips was easier to license and Ford got the license and blah blah blah.

But it's an inferior product. No fastener in the world strips out half as easily as them. Every single human being on the planet has probably sworn at a Phillips screw stripping out.

But somehow the reasons we got them were more important than the drawback of it being a terrible product? Why did so few people/companies care about delivering a product that people could use?

All this talk about how camming out was so useful for early manufacturing machines. How the licensing was so much better for companies like Ford. But as a consumer, I don't care about those things and I'm not sure why this terrible screw design was so excessively successful. If Ford loved those screws so much, he could have bought them. But anyone using a hand screwdriver would've benefitted more with a non-cam-out screw design. Why were those needs ignored? Maybe I'm too young to understand just how much pull a company like Ford had? I don't know. It just seems crazy to me. Like "Okay, Ford liked them... so what?" and "Okay, so the design was offered as a license, which made things easy, but the product was ****..."

(yes, I REALLY hate Phillips screws)

There is a book "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley that you really need to read!!!

Mr Ford and his methods feature significantly!!

 

[TuxThePenguin]

There is a book "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley that you really need to read!!!

Mr Ford and his methods feature significantly!!

You're not the first person to suggest that book to me, but the first it's come up in this context. I genuinely find that interesting, that the book has been recommended to me by multiple people, prompted by some very different conversations.

Definitely going to have to check it out. I'll put it on my "read this year" list.

 

[richfinn]

You're not the first person to suggest that book to me, but the first it's come up in this context. I genuinely find that interesting, that the book has been recommended to me by multiple people, prompted by some very different conversations.

Definitely going to have to check it out. I'll put it on my "read this year" list.

I got into it by listening to "The Doors" as a teenager

 

[Lucid Moments]

here is a vid on them

They are the work of the devil, using them we get so mad we curse them and then everything, it's just a short step further and our eternal souls are lost. So I throw them away and use Robertson.

One way to spot the Canadian on GJ.

 

[WVBrady]

How the Phillips Screwdriver Took Over America
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu.../a33490602/phillips-head-screwdriver-history/
AUG 31, 2020...

Interesting video; obnoxious voice.

 

[Jameskelly]

Wow interesting informations. never knew!

 

[Fedwrench]

when I saw the thread title, i though that the T20 torx head is probably more common on some vehicles today than the phillips

 

[Henricogolfer]

Road and Track is still in business?

Only online I am pretty sure.


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[dubdoc]

I never knew that Phillips were so popular below the border, till I bought my new Snap-On ratcheting bit driver. In the handle were only Phillips and straight bits.......no Robertson. We Canadians have replaced Phillips with Robertson many years ago. I can't remember the3 last time I saw a Phillips in a hardware store. Phillips are total and complete garbage.

 

[mikegt4]

Way back about 1960 we went to Ft. Lauderdale FL to visit my Mom's sister. She took us on a boat tour of the canals in the upscale neighborhoods in the area and one of the more extravagant homes was identified by the guide as the home of the inventor of the Phillips screwdriver. I guess it paid of fairly well for something that most people don't particularly like to work with.

 

[dthor68]

One more reason to love Canada.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I never knew that Phillips were so popular below the border, till I bought my new Snap-On ratcheting bit driver. In the handle were only Phillips and straight bits.......no Robertson. We Canadians have replaced Phillips with Robertson many years ago. I can't remember the3 last time I saw a Phillips in a hardware store. Phillips are total and complete garbage.

I have never seen a Robertson in person down here in the states not even a screw at the store we have Phillips and flat and torx I never knew you guys up there used them


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[Downwindtracker 2]

Not only did Robertson invent a better screw, he also invented a better screwdriver.

On one of my posts their is a link to a vid.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Not only did Robertson invent a better screw, he also invented a better screwdriver.

On one of my posts their is a link to a vid.

Is it better because the driver doesn’t slip out of it like it does occasionally for Phillips and flat.


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[Downwindtracker 2]

No, it's a hardened bit stuck in a softer metal shank. It doesn't rely on tempering the screwdriver end. The screwdrivers last forever and they cost less to make. If a Philips screwdriver slips , it's then only good as a tent peg.

You find conventional screwdriver makers make Robertson screwdrivers like any ordinary screwdriver ,just with different end. They are garbage , no matter how expensive or fancy the brand.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

No, it's a hardened bit stuck in a softer metal shank. It doesn't rely on tempering the screwdriver end. The screwdrivers last forever and they cost less to make. If a Philips screwdriver slips , it's then only good as a tent peg.

You find conventional screwdriver makers make Robertson screwdrivers like any ordinary screwdriver ,just with different end. They are garbage , no matter how expensive or fancy the brand.

I do have a few Robertson Square screwdrivers one is a Pratt and Read USA one that I got at Ace Hardware from the New Years sale and three others that are just a cheaper brand called Workforce with a black and yellow handle that I picked up at the pawn shop cause I figured if I ever run into one then I will at least have the drivers.


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[Ton ton]

I never knew that Phillips were so popular below the border, till I bought my new Snap-On ratcheting bit driver. In the handle were only Phillips and straight bits.......no Robertson. We Canadians have replaced Phillips with Robertson many years ago. I can't remember the3 last time I saw a Phillips in a hardware store. Phillips are total and complete garbage.

I know that the USA is still in the dark ages.

 

[jgromada]

Kreg uses Robertson screws in its pocket hole jig connectors for wood. So they ae spreading the Robertson faith. Agreed Robertson is much better than Phillips which suffers more from bad quality screws and ****** cheap screwdrivers than anything.

It would seem now that Torx is better them all and used extensively in the building industry as well as auto industry.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I 've found allenheads and some Torx on machinery. They didn't like Philips either. But because both straight sided they don't lock the screw on the screwdriver like a well made Robertson will. Getting well made Robertsons is getting to be a bit of a problem with all the imports. Even a poorly made Robertson is better than a Philips, though.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

No, it's a hardened bit stuck in a softer metal shank. It doesn't rely on tempering the screwdriver end. The screwdrivers last forever and they cost less to make. If a Philips screwdriver slips , it's then only good as a tent peg.

You find conventional screwdriver makers make Robertson screwdrivers like any ordinary screwdriver ,just with different end. They are garbage , no matter how expensive or fancy the brand.

It is extremely difficult to believe that this one company does things better and cheaper. You aren't the first person I've seen say the Robertson screwdrivers are the only good square screwdrivers, but it feels like hyperbole.

Any good places online I can order one from to check one out? Might be curious to put my money where my mouth is and check one out... if I can get them in the US for low cost. Even if I search Amazon.ca, I'm seeing third party brands. First non-"sponsored" result in a search for Robertson Screwdriver is a Tekton. Ugh, no thanks.

 

[gungatim]

I have never seen a Robertson in person down here in the states not even a screw at the store we have Phillips and flat and torx I never knew you guys up there used them


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odd, I can't count how many times I've grabbed a pack of drywall or deck screws, got home, and realized they were Robertson's. fortunately the only good pockethole screws are Robertson as well so I have plenty of bits in the woodshop.

what I don't understand is why some phillips are actually Reed and Prince and some are JIS...talk about stripped screwheads, every 70's Japanes motorcycle is full of them from people using a phillips instead of a JIS.

and the opposite is true with Reed & Prince. don't think I've come across any of those screws but sure have ruined fasteners with the drivers thinking they were phillips...

 

[tonyciambrone]

I am a big robertson/ square drive fan. Phillips does kinda ****, but you can engage them off-axis quite a bit easier. I think they all have their place, but as far as drywall screws I prefer square. Deck screws and powerlags I prefer torx, althought #3 phillips is also pretty good. #1 and #2 phillips are just no fun to drive.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

odd, I can't count how many times I've grabbed a pack of drywall or deck screws, got home, and realized they were Robertson's. fortunately the only good pockethole screws are Robertson as well so I have plenty of bits in the woodshop.



what I don't understand is why some phillips are actually Reed and Prince and some are JIS...talk about stripped screwheads, every 70's Japanes motorcycle is full of them from people using a phillips instead of a JIS.



and the opposite is true with Reed & Prince. don't think I've come across any of those screws but sure have ruined fasteners with the drivers thinking they were phillips...

Well I have never bought those types of screws cause I never have needed them so that’s probably why I haven’t seen them here. I do have a Reed Prince Driver which I had never heard of till I got the driver at the pawn shop and never have used it. And yes I am a dealership mechanic at Toyota and they are full of JIS screws and I use to always just use Phillips on them till I got the vessel drivers and they work great


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[Downwindtracker 2]

Urban myth has Robertson were only sold in Canada so we had an advantage over the rest of the world. The truth has more to do with restrictive sales, after some licensing deals went sideways. In Canada you can still get Fuller screwdrivers that are made the correct way . I don't know for how much longer. You use to be able to get Cluthe' , even the Robertson marked ones were made by Cluthe' . My electrician son uses Wera screwdrivers except for Robertson which are Fuller and stubbys which are Will. The last ones he has to find at the fleamarket.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Urban myth has Robertson were only sold in Canada so we had an advantage over the rest of the world. The truth has more to do with restrictive sales, after some licensing deals went sideways. In Canada you can still get Fuller screwdrivers that are made the correct way . I don't know for how much longer. You use to be able to get Cluthe' , even the Robertson marked ones were made by Cluthe' . My electrician son uses Wera screwdrivers except for Robertson which are Fuller and stubbys which are Will. The last ones he has to find at the fleamarket.

Wow I had no idea Fuller was still around they are amazing.


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[dthor68]

My first taste of the square head screws came with a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig. Now, whenever I have a wood project, I get my screws from the tool section, not the hardware section. The tool section is where they sell Kreg screws. I use them whether or not I am drilling pocket holes. Not only that, but I reuse them. I have never thrown away a Kreg screw.