Quality control of latest Snap On pliers?

[leoxdeng]

Hi all

After years of buying 2nd hand SO tools - I decided to treat myself with a new pair of pliers - it's the 97ACF.

But when I received it today - I am quite disappointed about the 'rustic' ground of the sides - looks like SO wanted to save a bit of steel and didn't cast/forge the sides wide enough for a smooth ground finish??

The top of the pliers are finished excellently though - especially the jaws which are precision milled.









I also bought a pair of 911ACF (haven't received it in the post yet) - and I'm now dreading if it will have the same 'rustic edges'...

Your thoughts?

Cheers
Namo Amituofo

 

[Ton ton]

This is why I like channel lock brand of pliers.

 

[Chevy-SS]

My thoughts are - you should have posted a pic!

 

[leoxdeng]

My thoughts are - you should have posted a pic!

Are you able to see the 4 pics I posted above?

 

[leoxdeng]

This is why I like channel lock brand of pliers.

I paid 40 quid for this pair. I think SO list them for 65 quid on UK website.

I have a used (but still in very good condition) pair of channellocks 349 (box joint) lineman's and are very very pleased with it. I heard channellocks' needle pliers are not as tough/twist resistance than SO, which is why I bought this new pair...

 

[Ton ton]

You are probably right about channel lock pliers. I just like the looks of channel lock needle nose pliers.

 

[Ton ton]

I can't see any pictures.

 

[Davefr]

Your images did not come thru. I had to go to page source to view them. Something about imgur posting.

It looks like a manufacturing defect. It happens to all brands. Contact Snap On and I'm sure they're replace them.

The asymmetric jaws would be my biggest concern over that rough edge.

 

[jonshonda]

Sh!t happens and no one is perfect. Once you realize that you will get a better understanding of variation and tolerance and how they play a roll in manufacturing. Report back if Snap On is difficult to deal with returning the pliers!

I too buy used SO and have really enjoyed them, and have been lusting for the exact pliers you bought.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

Sometimes that happens you just get one with a flaw. I use Channel Lock pliers and Snap-on and a few other brands and they are all pretty good. Maybe Snap-on will replace them.


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[Spacey_G]

I seriously doubt they remade their forging dies a little bit smaller to save a miniscule amount of material. Maybe if they sold tens of millions of pliers per year, but...

 

[ssdave]

Hi all

After years of buying 2nd hand SO tools - I decided to treat myself with a new pair of pliers - it's the 97ACF.

But when I received it today - I am quite disappointed about the 'rustic' ground of the sides - looks like SO wanted to save a bit of steel and didn't cast/forge the sides wide enough for a smooth ground finish??

The top of the pliers are finished excellently though - especially the jaws which are precision milled.

I also bought a pair of 911ACF (haven't received it in the post yet) - and I'm now dreading if it will have the same 'rustic edges'...

Your thoughts?

Cheers
Namo Amituofo

Testing to see if the photo's come through:

 

[ssdave]

Snap-on would probably exchange those, but personally, I'd just use them. That's a defect I see on a lot of pliers. However, they will work great. It won't in any way affect how good the pliers are.

Snap-on is really focused on tools as a high quality usable item. I think sometimes they don't see the "collect as an art form" mentality that a lot of their non-professional fans have. So something like that could easily be sold by the dealer without a second thought about it being defective, because to a user it is not. To an art connoisseur, it is defective.

 

[jonshonda]

Testing to see if the photo's come through:

Pics came through now. It's just a short shot. It happens a lot more then you might think, and was missed by QC.

 

[leoxdeng]

Snap-on would probably exchange those, but personally, I'd just use them. That's a defect I see on a lot of pliers. However, they will work great. It won't in any way affect how good the pliers are.

Snap-on is really focused on tools as a high quality usable item. I think sometimes they don't see the "collect as an art form" mentality that a lot of their non-professional fans have. So something like that could easily be sold by the dealer without a second thought about it being defective, because to a user it is not. To an art connoisseur, it is defective.

I have emailed SO - let's see what they say. I still think this is a bit 'lazy' - considering how much effort has gone into milling the jaws (which are very good by the way). The rough finish does not affect how the pliers work - you're absolutely right - but in due time that area will collect more debris and will be more prone to rust. I wipe off all my tools with leftover engine oil after each job - so hopefully that won't be an issue.

Like I said I've also bought a new pair of 911ACF (5 quid more than what I spent on these I'm posting about). And I'm considering buying either 490CF or 411CF as well. All this pliers buying frenzy resulted from doing a 6-hr job to replace Volvo rear parking brake shoes, and my cheap nose pliers just would not hold those retention springs no matter how hard I squeezed the handles...

 

[Chevy-SS]

Interesting pics (thanks to "ssdave" for posting). QC does appear to be lacking on those pliers, which I might expect from Harbor Freight tools, but not Snap-On.

 

[leoxdeng]

Your images did not come thru. I had to go to page source to view them. Something about imgur posting.

It looks like a manufacturing defect. It happens to all brands. Contact Snap On and I'm sure they're replace them.

The asymmetric jaws would be my biggest concern over that rough edge.

I just re-read your point on asymmetric jaws - I assume you refer to the 'teeth' offsetting each other? If so, I believe this is intentional, to get a really tight grip but not wear down the teeth - as if the teeth are perfectly aligned they will wear out very fast. What do you think?

 

[lardy1]

Return them. This ain't WalMart **** at WalMart prices.

 

[B_Bimmer]

I don't see a problem, but then, I use pliers, never wore them as jewelry.

 

[leoxdeng]

Return them. This ain't WalMart **** at WalMart prices.

I bought them off someone on ebay - he said to me he 'bought 4 sets straight from the SO van and sold them off individually...' - so I ended up contacting SO directly to see what they say.

I'm not too fussed about this and like said above they function well as a pair of pliers. I'm just a bit shocked to see this type of QC from SO - who are supposed to make the best tools that justify the highest prices.

 

[garfunkle24]

At least Mac is smart enough to rebrand Knipex. Snap-on pliers **** IMHO. Knipex, NWS and a few others are much better, especially given the SO premium. Especially if you're in the UK which I assume you are, given they don't talk about Snap-on 'vans' in London, Ontario.

 

[jonshonda]

I bought them off someone on ebay - he said to me he 'bought 4 sets straight from the SO van and sold them off individually...' - so I ended up contacting SO directly to see what they say.

I'm not too fussed about this and like said above they function well as a pair of pliers. I'm just a bit shocked to see this type of QC from SO - who are supposed to make the best tools that justify the highest prices.

This sounds a little fishy to me, and you should have seen it in the pics on the ebay listing. Wondering if the seller bought them at a steep discount because of the quality issues, and then posted them on ebay w/o noting the issues.

Honestly if the seller didn't note the issues, ding him/her for it.

 

[Davefr]

I just re-read your point on asymmetric jaws - I assume you refer to the 'teeth' offsetting each other? If so, I believe this is intentional, to get a really tight grip but not wear down the teeth - as if the teeth are perfectly aligned they will wear out very fast. What do you think?

That's not what I was referring to. To me it looks like the left jaw is significantly thinner then the right jaw. Maybe it's parallax due to the image angle. If it's really half the thickness I'd ask for replacements.

If the OP bought them on Ebay, then maybe the seller was dumpster diver at the SO factory.

 

[leoxdeng]

So I have received SO's email reply - the guy said because I bought it on ebay there is a chance it can be counterfeit product, SO won't guarantee and there is nothing he could do for me...

I'll keep it and use it though. And I'm quite happy I saved about 30% of the cost vs buying from SO website directly.

If anyone comes across this thread in the future, and think about buying SO new design pliers on ebay - worth asking the seller to post pictures of the sides of the pliers - that is, if this kind of issue bothers you... And worth noting the obvious - SO doesn't want to do with anything bought on ebay.

Cheers all
Namo Amituofo

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

So I have received SO's email reply - the guy said because I bought it on ebay there is a chance it can be counterfeit product, SO won't guarantee and there is nothing he could do for me...



I'll keep it and use it though. And I'm quite happy I saved about 30% of the cost vs buying from SO website directly.



If anyone comes across this thread in the future, and think about buying SO new design pliers on ebay - worth asking the seller to post pictures of the sides of the pliers - that is, if this kind of issue bothers you... And worth noting the obvious - SO doesn't want to do with anything bought on ebay.



Cheers all

Namo Amituofo

I have never had an issue with them warranting anything bought from eBay or someone else that wasn’t a dealer like I bought a cracked socket at the pawn shop and they replaced it free I just mailed it in since at the time I didn’t have a dealer at the time.


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[Kodiak]

Manufacturing defects do occur even in the best brands. About five years ago I bought a pair of Channel Lock needle nose pliers from Sears. When I pulled them from the package the last half inch of one of the jaws just fell off. Must have been a crack or defect in the steel. Sears replaced them without question.

 

[Tbird22]

When i was in a student program, I bought a 1/4 flex head ratchet and the screw for the flex head was way too tight that it was hard to, well, flex the head. I emailed them just to ask what I should do (at that time, I never disassembled a ratchet before). They apologized and sent me a new one, no questions asked. Didn’t even request to return the old one. Things fall through the cracks but they don’t hesitate to fix the cracks (if you buy from a dealer, at least)


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[Zrexxer]

I bought them off someone on ebay - he said to me he 'bought 4 sets straight from the SO van

Did the side of the van he bought them from say "官方视频片段＃4?"

 

[Mr_B]

That the issue with snapon in europe, not equal customer service warranty to US and higher prices .
would expect seller got them for sale due to cosmetic defects, that the issue with eBay - lot of items cheaper on eBay as basically B grade, returns sold as new etc etc .
Least the important bits good and they usable .

 

[Ton ton]

My Snappy rep sells Knipex pliers.

 

[KnurledNut]

SO has lacked a high quality finish on their in-house pliers for quite some time. But seriously, how did those pass quality control?

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

SO has lacked a high quality finish on their in-house pliers for quite some time. But seriously, how did those pass quality control?

i don't think they inspect every single tools, just few batches here and there.

 

[KnurledNut]

i don't think they inspect every single tools, just few batches here and there.

Every single plier is handled multiple times.
Each step of manufacturing plays a role in QC.
You can see this in the long nose pliers production here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?index=1&list=RDQMOq9dYNEN7UI&v=n9eRsd1hse8

 

[Skin]

At least Mac is smart enough to rebrand Knipex. Snap-on pliers **** IMHO. Knipex, NWS and a few others are much better, especially given the SO premium. Especially if you're in the UK which I assume you are, given they don't talk about Snap-on 'vans' in London, Ontario.

That's a big negative. Snap-on makes much better needle nose and their combo slip joints are second to none. There isn't a lot than SO makes that I think is worth the asking price but a lot of their USA pliers are infact worth it. The only thing I was never a fan of was their side cutters when they were doing some 'power cut' grind so the blades only touched at the tip but thankfully they mostly did away with that design.

The models they make in Spain are an easy pass though.

 

[chrisnazzy]

Look, bottom line here is the pliers were bought off Ebay!

These easily could have not passed QC and ended up in the secondary market as a result.

I really like Ebay but studying the pictures of the item is crucial and if the pics are aren't enough to gauge the condition ask for more pics or move on.

If the OP had bought the pliers from a Snap-on franchisee or SO website and they looked like that he would have absolutely zero issue getting them swapped out for a better pair. In fact, if the OP had a working relationship with a SO franchisee and purchased SO tools regularly he would have zero issue getting these pliers swapped out even if they did come from Ebay.

Full disclosure, I've been buying (and selling) Snap-on tools for over 20 years. I have bought a lot of SO tools from local dealers that I've done business with regularly but I've also bought SO tools from Ebay and used from local sales. Never ever had an issue but I'm also not buying broken tools just to go get them warrantied either. It all just boils down to the professional relationship that you build with your local franchisee!

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[leoxdeng]

Look, bottom line here is the pliers were bought off Ebay!

These easily could have not passed QC and ended up in the secondary market as a result.

I really like Ebay but studying the pictures of the item is crucial and if the pics are aren't enough to gauge the condition ask for more pics or move on.

If the OP had bought the pliers from a Snap-on franchisee or SO website and they looked like that he would have absolutely zero issue getting them swapped out for a better pair. In fact, if the OP had a working relationship with a SO franchisee and purchased SO tools regularly he would have zero issue getting these pliers swapped out even if they did come from Ebay.

Full disclosure, I've been buying (and selling) Snap-on tools for over 20 years. I have bought a lot of SO tools from local dealers that I've done business with regularly but I've also bought SO tools from Ebay and used from local sales. Never ever had an issue but I'm also not buying broken tools just to go get them warrantied either. It all just boils down to the professional relationship that you build with your local franchisee!

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Yes - you're totally right - lesson well learned!

The ebay seller posted just 1 pic showing 'front view' but not the sides. And I thought these are SO so why do I need to bother with asking for more pics...? Never in a million years I'd thought there can be 'seconds' SO out there...

Selling 'seconds' or B-grade without marking so on the said tools - is a very bad practice and can be damaging to the brand as well.

I won't fuss about opening an eBay case which best case scenario for me would be I return these pliers (postage cost to me) for a refund.

Also a quick note on Knipex - I have many pliers from Knipex - their 'cobra' pipe grips are amazing, and their smaller pliers work well for electronics jobs that need precision, and their bolt cutter is deceptively powerful - but when it comes to car jobs - I find their pliers are on the flexible side and the nose pliers do not close tight due to having a cutter feature. So I opted for the simplistic SO nose pliers intead.

 

[leoxdeng]

Guys please take a look at this pair - 497ACF - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Snap-on-Ne...735253?hash=item3d9f8ba955:g:hekAAOSwD75eb9y6

Look at the 1st pic (similar rough grinding on the side), 3rd and 5th pics (some rough grinding on the inside of the jaws at the 'bend').

MAYBE this is just how SO makes these new design pliers with flat handles??

 

[mr.lemons]

leoxdeng. Mine to compare.

Snap-on is really focused on tools as a high quality usable item. I think sometimes they don't see the "collect as an art form" mentality that a lot of their non-professional fans have. So something like that could easily be sold by the dealer without a second thought about it being defective, because to a user it is not. To an art connoisseur, it is defective.

haha, so condescending. Snap on very much panders to collectors. How else can you explain screwdriver rainbows?

 

[leoxdeng]

Every single plier is handled multiple times.
Each step of manufacturing plays a role in QC.
You can see this in the long nose pliers production here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?index=1&list=RDQMOq9dYNEN7UI&v=n9eRsd1hse8

That's a great video - thank you for sharing it!

I noticed at about 1min24sec - ALL those pliers have roughly ground sides!!!

I suspect, this is either due to:

- the design (which I still struggle to comprehend - unless they are going for the Gransfors Bruks forged look???)

OR

- the steel billets at the beginning of the video are just a tad too thin for the forge die at the handle part - which didn't leave enough materials at the sides of the widest part of the handle for a smooth grind

Your thoughts?

 

[leoxdeng]

leoxdeng. Mine to compare.

haha, so condescending. Snap on very much panders to collectors. How else can you explain screwdriver rainbows?

Thanks a lot for sharing - so they make ALL of them like that! ! !