Dream Lathe: 1943 Sidney

[bugnut]

Tool post grinder will fix the mismatch in the four jaw chuck.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Tool post grinder will fix the mismatch in the four jaw chuck.

The one is beyond saving. It's a welding chuck only now. We've got decent ones now, so no biggie.

-----------

Well, well, well. What have we here? Lathe is starting to look more like a lathe again.

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The apron went on pretty easily. Dad and mom helped, and we placed it on a lab jack in the chip pan and used that for final positioning. Screwed it in, added the Dutch keys, hooked up the oil line and it was done!

I shortened the carriage lock so it would work and added a temporary capscrew. Not sure what it had originally, looks like it came to us with a capscrew. I'll make a proper square soon probably.

The oil system works good! I cannot express how nice it is to always have a thick coat of oil on the ways. Dad's Lagun has a manual oil pump but it's just not the same as a tiny bit of oil being steadily applied. If the way wipers and oiling system were kept up there is no way the machine would be this bad. It would still have a significant amount of wear most likely, but not like this. It is over-oiling the flat way a bit, the vees seems just right. I probably should have left the metering felt in the holes alone, it was much denser than what I replaced it with. (I used F7 for the wipers BTW and F13 for the oil reservoirs BTW). I probably needed F3 in the holes to match what they had, but that would have been another $15. It doesn't really bother me though, NBD. It's hard to tell whether the cross-slide and apron are getting their oil yet, they are metered very low. Looks like everything is getting oiled though. No leaks, so I'm very happy with the oiling system.

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The carriage slides about as well as one can expect for having no flakings and not being very flat. I can't push it by hand, but it doesn't take much effort on the handwheel.

Dad polished up the original nut for the handwheel, which happens to be brass. I think it looks fantastic. We never paint handwheel rims or spinners, just doesn't feel good in the hand.

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I couldn't find the bearing balls to put one in for the threading stop. It should work fine though. It will need a brass thumb screw someday as well.

The clutches still don't stick. I think they'll need to be brazed. I'm just trying to decide whether to use silicon bronze which is impossible to machine or file, but is tough, or brass, which will be pretty soft. Probably brass.

So the next order of operations:

1. Mask and paint the saddle.
2. Push it against the wall and level it.
3. Machine one gib screw (lost it. Identical to a Bport screw except it's coarse thread)
4. Install the cross-slide and compound which are painted and ready to go.

After that, it's simply a matter of going through the entire QCGB and then finish up the small issues that remain and put it to use. We're close!

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Yesterday was productive.

We got the first coat of paint on the saddle.

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I built a gibscrew to replace the one we lost. Almost built two, since it's not much more work when you're already setup. Well it turns out I need two, as the cross-slide has one front and rear. I have no idea how we lost both, pretty pathetic though. I'm sure they'll turn up when we finish. Whatever. I can't use spare Bridgeport screws as they are coarse thread instead of fine thread. Otherwise the dimensions are identical.

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We started into the apron, but it's not coming apart without a fight. We've already got one stuck taper pin that will probably have to be drilled. The next problem was a gear that was extremely stuck. We double and triple checked the manual to make sure we weren't doing it wrong, but it was just stuck. Huge thanks to b2major9th on PM for uploading a scan of his manual years back. He has some very large images of perfectly preserved detailed section drawings that are absolute lifesavers when trying to diagnose how something like this comes apart when it's totally covered in grease and grime and you can't necessarily see what's holding it together.

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We tried a slide hammer and that wasn't touching it, so I made yet another tool to get it out. I screwed a stud into the end of the shaft and slid the puller pipe over it and put a nut on it. We had it up to probably 100+ foot-lbs and it wasn't budging so I got out the torch and heated it and it budged but not much. We ended up letting it cool and then hitting the nut with a wimpy 1/2" battery impact and that yanked it right off. I'm sure I didn't do the gear any favors. It was hot enough to blue it, so I'm sure it lost a little temper. Not my proudest moment, but idk what else you can do in situations like this. Gotta get the job done.

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The gear fit is probably a press fit with two keys and a dutch key. I have no clue how we'll get it back on. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

The dissembled and first-washed parts thus far:

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The tumbler lever that is all wallowed out does have bushings in it. I thought that it was just cast iron, but it was just filthy. I'm not sure that I can just press them out and replace though. It looks like the bronze goes right up to the edges, and it may even be mechanically attached via soldering or something. It's probably best just to bore it in place. I'm a bit afraid of it, as being off in alignment any means the gear mesh will be wrong. It looks like it's only wallowed heavily on the one side so hopefully I can get indicated without too much issue.

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[ClappedOutBport]

The next part to come out to strip it was the leadscrew driver, and it has 3 components, an exterior sleeve, attached to a shaft, running through an interior sleeve. There was no where good to hit on the inside, just the dog engagement showing. I was thinking about making yet another tool, when I had the idea of using a 3 jaw chuck clamped on and beating on the chuck with a soft faced hammer. That worked great and didn't damage anything.

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Then the cluster came out easily enough.

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Then there was just two shafts left. On the leadscrew reverse shaft (hidden) there were a couple of really tough taper pins. I remembered seeing or having tried an air hammer in the past and that working well. Brap! Taper pins out.

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Stripped! After two more pressure wash and purple power cycles for a total of 5 or so, the case is pretty clean. It will still get one final wash in the parts washer to clean up and remove the flash rust from the precision bores.

That's as much process as we've made on the GB for now. We're waiting on some bearings. Dad waited to see if any were good before ordering. 1 was. 8 weren't. Surprise.

A bearing distributor on ebay sent us a 10 pack of 6208 RS bearings when we ordered a 10 pack of 6206 ZZs. That's like... not even close to right. Whatever, they're not asking us to send them back.

And BTW I was wrong about the bushings on the tumbler lever. Upon closer inspection it appears to be solid brass.

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With the paint dry on the saddle I turned my attention to the cross slide. The cross-slide was complete, just needed a few finishing touches.

First, a 5 thou shim for the gib to get a little more travel.

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Then it could be installed with the two new gib screws.

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I was having some binding at the near end, and discovered that due to wear the saddle had been effectively shifted to the left and bunch and the lead screw wasn't allowing for that. So I oversized the holes and added washers. It's still not tight. At all. I can't add any more shim if I want full travel. Is what it is. I also apparently installed an apron gear backwards (fully symmetrical) and now the wear is running opposite that of the cross-slide leadscrew gear and it does not run smoothly. I think because one gear hung just a tic off the other, there some displaced metal causing it to be grumbley. It seems to already be getting better so I'm hoping just to leave it because I do not intend to pull the apron again. I can live with it at least.

Since I was finished behind it we shoved it up against the wall. Not a good place for machines I know, but we don't have any other options. I can still get to stuff behind it, I just have to work ontop of the machine.

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We got it removed from it's dollies and onto concrete blocks. Last time we moved it, I bent my Johnson bar slightly. I reinforced it, but now with the added weight of the machine and and slightly worse mechanical advantage of the bar, I cannot lift it. It may finally be time to invest in a toe jack. I need it to come up another inch or so for my leveling feet. I'm starting to like the color scheme a bit more too as it balances out and dulls a bit.

Getting closer. Not that much more to do. I'm hopeing it will be done before I'm back in school (Aug 19), and I think it will be.

 

[86turbodsl]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Build a toe jack. I did. Like 20 bucks. Otherwise, great looking work.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Maybe. Sometimes I get tired of stopping all the time to build tools. And thanks.


I know I can get it with my leveling feet. Move the inner blocks out, install feet and a 2x4, jack, install other feet, de-adjust inner feet and return the block and then level. It would be a lot of cranking, but otherwise no biggie.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

It's been a while. Truth of the matter is I got a little busy and I fell behind on the updates. However, the lathe is now back together, running, operating. Still needs a few small things but it's 99.9% done. I'll try in the next week or two to get caught back up to current.

 

[dutchgray]

Nice to hear its mostly done and back to operational condition. Can get busy making parts on it now.

My little French lathe is still much the same, I have cleaned it some but it still needs a lot more cleaning and all the oil points will now take oil from an oil gun, which is nice.

I also bought a nice Bridgeport mill and had it moved to the workshop. Its set up and running but I need to shim it to level as the floor in the workshop is not great and all the oil runs out the left end of the table. It was £3,600 which is pretty much the going rate for a good one in my area unless you get lucky, I was looking for 8 months and it was really the first viable option. Since I bought it an almost new Taiwanese clone came up for the same money and a decent British clone (Beaver) from the 60's for £800, which is very cheap if its not worn out. But thats life, once you buy a machine more always appear for less money it seems.

There is a local ish job shop that closed and its all up for auction at the moment, 400 lots with the big machinery separate if they can sell it first, so I might be able to snag some tooling for reasonable money. They had some pretty big stuff in there.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Nice to hear its mostly done and back to operational condition. Can get busy making parts on it now.

My little French lathe is still much the same, I have cleaned it some but it still needs a lot more cleaning and all the oil points will now take oil from an oil gun, which is nice.

I also bought a nice Bridgeport mill and had it moved to the workshop. Its set up and running but I need to shim it to level as the floor in the workshop is not great and all the oil runs out the left end of the table. It was £3,600 which is pretty much the going rate for a good one in my area unless you get lucky, I was looking for 8 months and it was really the first viable option. Since I bought it an almost new Taiwanese clone came up for the same money and a decent British clone (Beaver) from the 60's for £800, which is very cheap if its not worn out. But thats life, once you buy a machine more always appear for less money it seems.

There is a local ish job shop that closed and its all up for auction at the moment, 400 lots with the big machinery separate if they can sell it first, so I might be able to snag some tooling for reasonable money. They had some pretty big stuff in there.

I can't believe that a Bridgeport costs so much in your area. Since England is so small and had such dense manufacturing to many years, I'd figure a mill would be pennies on the dollar! That is surprising to me. Sounds like your shop is getting tooled up nicely.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

So the lathe needed leveling, and as I'd said in a previous post, I made homemade leveling feet.

I had no way of getting them in, as I needed to raise the lathe another two inches, and my Johnson bar wasn't cutting it anymore. (Maybe if I weighed another 100 lbs it would have

)

I went with my plan on post #166, and that worked excellent. The tailstock end was light enough to lift with the Johnson bar.

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Man, I didn't make those a mm too long! I guess the floor has a bit of slope here.

I'm sure you all are thinking that it's too tall, but keep in mind that I'm 7" taller than the average American, so a 6 or 7" rise isn't unreasonable.

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I wasn't able to get it full twist-free. It has apparently taken a set from sitting unlevel so long. The front tailstock feet have almost no weight on them and it still needs to go down. I think it will settle with time. It's probably about time to check it again now, it's been 5-6 weeks.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Well I was about getting ready to machine the bore on the bronze tumbler (bottom of post #163), but it's swing radius is 7". The Lagun will swing that, but not with a chuck jaw hanging on the outside. So, it was either pull the chuck, pull the gap, reinstall the chuck, machine, pull the chuck, reinstall the gap, reinstall the chuck or just do it in the Sidney and I can take it as slowly as I like. So I needed to get this thing operational.

I needed to make the CXA toolpost for the Lagun usable and preferably at the same height as the Lagun so I don't have to reset toolholder height. Ideally it would have a CA, but we don't have one right now.

I started with the T-nut, which which went well except for one goof. I didn't tighten the collet enough and was being greedy with a .730" deep cut taking the sides down in one pass and my endmill slipped deeper. I'm not pleased about it, but I don't want to remake it so I'll probably just fill it with JB weld and remachine.

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Then I made a stud. Nothing special, 3/4"-10 on the one end and M18x1.5 on the other. Single pointed. Went well. Clearly I'm much better with a lathe than a mill. I power tapped the block 3/4"-10 on the Royersford.

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Now I just need a riser. I calculated the difference in center height between the two machines and looked for some suitable material. Didn't have any, but I we did have some old weight plates kicking around. I decided to trepan one out of the center. So I spent some time and ground up a face-grooving tool and tried that.

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It could have been a bit thinner, but it worked superb. Took almost all the rigidity the Lagun had to offer. I fed at 0.0045" per rev at 60 RPM.

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There's the ring sitting inside it's captor.

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Mounted up and ready to go!

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Center height came out perfect (at least up near the headstock) so tools are automatically on height for both lathes. I love that.

 

[86turbodsl]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Rule of thumb is check it for level every couple weeks. It'll come .back. where'd you get your level? I need one.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[86turbodsl]

Well I was about getting ready to machine the bore on the bronze tumbler (bottom of post #163), but it's swing radius is 7". The Lagun will swing that, but not with a chuck jaw hanging on the outside. So, it was either pull the chuck, pull the gap, reinstall the chuck, machine, pull the chuck, reinstall the gap, reinstall the chuck or just do it in the Sidney and I can take it as slowly as I like. So I needed to get this thing operational.



I needed to make the CXA toolpost for the Lagun usable and preferably at the same height as the Lagun so I don't have to reset toolholder height. Ideally it would have a CA, but we don't have one right now.



I started with the T-nut, which which went well except for one goof. I didn't tighten the collet enough and was being greedy with a .730" deep cut taking the sides down in one pass and my endmill slipped deeper. I'm not pleased about it, but I don't want to remake it so I'll probably just fill it with JB weld and remachine.



View media item 106655


Then I made a stud. Nothing special, 3/4"-10 on the one end and M18x1.5 on the other. Single pointed. Went well. Clearly I'm much better with a lathe than a mill. I power tapped the block 3/4"-10 on the Royersford.



View media item 106658


View media item 106660


Now I just need a riser. I calculated the difference in center height between the two machines and looked for some suitable material. Didn't have any, but I we did have some old weight plates kicking around. I decided to trepan one out of the center. So I spent some time and ground up a face-grooving tool and tried that.



View media item 106665


It could have been a bit thinner, but it worked superb. Took almost all the rigidity the Lagun had to offer. I fed at 0.0045" per rev at 60 RPM.



View media item 106656


There's the ring sitting inside it's captor.



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Mounted up and ready to go!



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Center height came out perfect (at least up near the headstock) so tools are automatically on height for both lathes. I love that.

I think I just bought the same cxa post.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Rule of thumb is check it for level every couple weeks. It'll come .back. where'd you get your level? I need one.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

Facebook Marketplace. Dad wasn't interested, so I waited for him to drop the price until I could afford it. He felt his old Starett no 95 was good enough. (It's not.) I ended up getting it for $80. Corner is chipped on the Phenolic, but otherwise it's perfect.

Here's the difference between his old one and the Lufkin.

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As you can see the Starrett is closer to a Carpenter's level than it is to the Lufkin. I got both of our other lathes to within 2-3 tenths per foot.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I think I just bought the same cxa post.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

Shoulda got the CA. Lol. Oh well. I never did come to agree with Doc on that. CXA is too small, cut and dry.

 

[Packard V8]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Facebook Marketplace. Dad wasn't interested, so I waited for him to drop the price until I could afford it. He felt his old Starett no 95 was good enough. (It's not.) I ended up getting it for $80. Corner is chipped on the Phenolic, but otherwise it's perfect.

Here's the difference between his old one and the Lufkin.

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As you can see the Starrett is closer to a Carpenter's level than it is to the Lufkin. I got both of our other lathes to within 2-3 tenths per foot.

FWIW, the better machinist's and even master precision levels are adjustable. There's no reason you can't get them both reading exactly the same.

jack vines

 

[ClappedOutBport]

That's not the issue. The issue is that with the lathe so out of level that the Lufkin was off-scale, the Starrett showed almost right. And the when the lathe was leveled to where the Lufkin showed that it was perfect, the Starrett had barely moved. It's a resolution issue.

Also, FWIW, the Starrett was centered I believe, it's just the camera angle.

 

[DocsMachine]

Shoulda got the CA. Lol. Oh well. I never did come to agree with Doc on that. CXA is too small, cut and dry.

-Oh sure, blame it all on me.

When we talked about that- and I thought most of that was over Turbo's Pacemaker- I'm not sure I'd picked up a CA yet. Maybe I did? Can't recall, I've slept since then.

I came across a CA, a real Aloris, for a pretty fair price so I went ahead and got it. Bought a couple blocks for it- cheap ones I could afford off eBay- but of course the machine wasn't even all in the same state at the time, and as of this writing, still isn't back together.

Just mocking it up, while the CA fits and should work, it may very well be a tad too big for my Springfield.

But, I have a giant compound (probably 10-15% bigger than the original, and even that's after I milled it down 10-15%) and had to offset the toolpost stud towards the front a bit, in order to actually have the tool hit the work before the chuck hits the compound.

The CA may alleviate some of that a bit. Dunno, holding fire 'til I get the whole mess reassembled.

Whichever one I don't use, I'll sell. I have half a dozen blocks for the CA, and closer to two dozen for the CXA. Pretty sure I can find some poor unsuspecting schmu... er, lucky individual to take one of them off my hands.

Doc.

 

[Roberts210]

That Starret machinists level can be sent back to Starret to be recalibrated. I have two of them--a 6" and a 12". Both are spot on perfect, and I'd be confidend leveling anything with either one.

 

[ttpete]

That Starret machinists level can be sent back to Starret to be recalibrated. I have two of them--a 6" and a 12". Both are spot on perfect, and I'd be confidend leveling anything with either one.

A quick way to check it is to note the reading and rotate the level 180 degrees. Both readings should be the same.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

That Starret machinists level can be sent back to Starret to be recalibrated. I have two of them--a 6" and a 12". Both are spot on perfect, and I'd be confidend leveling anything with either one.

A quick way to check it is to note the reading and rotate the level 180 degrees. Both readings should be the same.

I... guys the levels are fine. The Lufkin is perfect and the Starrett is off by no more than a hair's width. We know how to calibrate them. The post was to show the difference in resolution and why the Starrett 95 is not suitable for leveling a lathe.

 

[Packard V8]

I... guys the levels are fine. The Lufkin is perfect and the Starrett is off by no more than a hair's width. We know how to calibrate them. The post was to show the difference in resolution and why the Starrett 95 is not suitable for leveling a lathe.

I thought I was going to do a real gnat's-*** installation and brought out my Pratt & Whitney Master Precision Level. Helping me was a millwright with forty years of experience at US Steel. He just smiled at my level and said, "Yer gonna make it hard on us, ain't ya?" He'd done countless large machinery installations and his take, a lathe as large as your Sidney is a dynamic device. Changes in temperature, humidity, large workpieces, continuous production, settling under the mounting points, will all move a big lathe more than the difference shown between those two levels. He said, "We can get it perfect on that level, but run it for a week, come back and it ain't gonna be where we leave it today."

jack vines

 

[ttpete]

I thought I was going to do a real gnat's-*** installation and brought out my Pratt & Whitney Master Precision Level. Helping me was a millwright with forty years of experience at US Steel. He just smiled at my level and said, "Yer gonna make it hard on us, ain't ya?" He'd done countless large machinery installations and his take, a lathe as large as your Sidney is a dynamic device. Changes in temperature, humidity, large workpieces, continuous production, settling under the mounting points, will all move a big lathe more than the difference shown between those two levels. He said, "We can get it perfect on that level, but run it for a week, come back and it ain't gonna be where we leave it today."

jack vines

We had a 10'X25' 3 piece iron surface plate installed. It had jackscrews all over it, and the millwrights leveled it using a special transit and target. The first guy sat behind the transit and the second moved the target around and adjusted the jackscrews with a big T-handle Allen wrench. It took about 4 days to get it level, and they said it was at +/- .010" when they got done. We used it to check production light truck bodies and frames.

 

[dutchgray]

I can't believe that a Bridgeport costs so much in your area. Since England is so small and had such dense manufacturing to many years, I'd figure a mill would be pennies on the dollar! That is surprising to me. Sounds like your shop is getting tooled up nicely.

They are cheaper up north where the majority of heavy industry was, the biggest issue is old manual machines get exported, thousands have gone to India and China since the decline in industry here from the 70's the next biggest issue is space is expensive here so stuff that isn't used doesn't generally get left lying about, it gets disposed of quickly to make room, in my area which is rural and relatively cheap industrial rents are £6 sq foot per year and local government then takes another 49% of that rent value in tax. Since Bridgeports are still somewhat in demand in industry and are highly coveted in home shops (you will almost never find a bigger mill in a home shop here) any worth having are good money. A fully reconditioned Bridgeport can be bought for £13k.

At least used tooling is reasonably common and reasonably priced, though 40 taper is probably the most common and cheapest used.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

-Oh sure, blame it all on me.

When we talked about that- and I thought most of that was over Turbo's Pacemaker- I'm not sure I'd picked up a CA yet. Maybe I did? Can't recall, I've slept since then.

I came across a CA, a real Aloris, for a pretty fair price so I went ahead and got it. Bought a couple blocks for it- cheap ones I could afford off eBay- but of course the machine wasn't even all in the same state at the time, and as of this writing, still isn't back together.

Just mocking it up, while the CA fits and should work, it may very well be a tad too big for my Springfield.

But, I have a giant compound (probably 10-15% bigger than the original, and even that's after I milled it down 10-15%) and had to offset the toolpost stud towards the front a bit, in order to actually have the tool hit the work before the chuck hits the compound.

The CA may alleviate some of that a bit. Dunno, holding fire 'til I get the whole mess reassembled.

Whichever one I don't use, I'll sell. I have half a dozen blocks for the CA, and closer to two dozen for the CXA. Pretty sure I can find some poor unsuspecting schmu... er, lucky individual to take one of them off my hands.

Doc.

I think you had a tool block at the time of our discussion. I don't like hanging tools out to miss the compound though it's not bad at 0 or 90 degrees.

We've since picked up two new Aloris CXA posts at an auction. One Wedge, one piston. We're gonna be picking our favorites and selling the other(s). Or maybe try to swap with someone. I just hate milling down 1" toolshanks, especially if we ever upgrade. Of course, there are 1" CXA blocks...

I thought I was going to do a real gnat's-*** installation and brought out my Pratt & Whitney Master Precision Level. Helping me was a millwright with forty years of experience at US Steel. He just smiled at my level and said, "Yer gonna make it hard on us, ain't ya?" He'd done countless large machinery installations and his take, a lathe as large as your Sidney is a dynamic device. Changes in temperature, humidity, large workpieces, continuous production, settling under the mounting points, will all move a big lathe more than the difference shown between those two levels. He said, "We can get it perfect on that level, but run it for a week, come back and it ain't gonna be where we leave it today."

jack vines

Yes, you're most likely right, it will continue to move. And given it's wear, it doesn't matter a whole bunch. But I can try to keep it "close".

They are cheaper up north where the majority of heavy industry was, the biggest issue is old manual machines get exported, thousands have gone to India and China since the decline in industry here from the 70's the next biggest issue is space is expensive here so stuff that isn't used doesn't generally get left lying about, it gets disposed of quickly to make room, in my area which is rural and relatively cheap industrial rents are £6 sq foot per year and local government then takes another 49% of that rent value in tax. Since Bridgeports are still somewhat in demand in industry and are highly coveted in home shops (you will almost never find a bigger mill in a home shop here) any worth having are good money. A fully reconditioned Bridgeport can be bought for £13k.

At least used tooling is reasonably common and reasonably priced, though 40 taper is probably the most common and cheapest used.

I find it interesting how much location matters in such a small country. Then again, I wouldn't want to drive 500 miles either. I just figured it would matter less. Thanks for the knowledge, that's very surprising.

 

[dutchgray]

I find it interesting how much location matters in such a small country. Then again, I wouldn't want to drive 500 miles either. I just figured it would matter less. Thanks for the knowledge, that's very surprising.

It was 25 miles away which is 50 minutes if there is no traffic, getting anywhere in my part of the country takes a lot of time. Plus haulage costs are quite high here so having a machine moved a decent distance is not cheap. Plus it was accessible, I had to take the table off to make it fit through a door but other than that we got it on rollers and rolled it out the garage it was in, then put some 4" bearers under it and put it on a tail lift with a pallet truck, which was easy. I had to have it moved for me as I am not legal to tow that weight with my standard driving licence.
It nice to have a decent mill though compared to the more common home shop sized machines.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

So, back on the gearbox and the tumbler. God what a nightmare that turned out to be. This will be part one I guess.

I needed to bore it to be able to bush it. There isn't a flat surface on it. It's all cast except for a bandsaw cut. Where the gear goes is machined, but I couldn't think of a good was to fixture it off that in the mill. So I decided to try it on a lathe.

To indicate it in, I put the shaft in and noticed that almost all the wear was to one side. Hot dog in a hallway on the one, but nearly unworn on the other. So I hammered in wooden wedges on the worn side.

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This ended up working poorly. I don't know why. Maybe I assumed the wear was in the wrong area, but the final hole needed to be closer to the other gear. Considering it was wedged in that direction, I don't know what happened. You all will see what I mean shortly.

Indicating it into the 4 jaw was the hardest thing I've ever done. If one jaw was opened even 5 thou too much, not only did it slip and lose position, but the whole thing fell out. I tried for 30 minutes, then removed the gears to get it deeper, then spent another 30 minutes getting it dialed in. I had the shaft within a 1-2 thou and the end was only whipping by about 4 thou, so assuming my wedge method was valid (which apparently it wasn't), it was very well lined up. I was deathly afraid of it jumping out and getting smashed between the ways, so I zip tied it for assurance.

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First I faced off the outside

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Boring it was pretty disappointing using the lathe for the first time. The worn out cross slide would hop and bop due to the interrupted cut, and I didn't get consistent results until the bore was round. I started hand feeding with the compound, but due to the slop in it, switched to the carriage. Took a while with light passes. I did end up getting it to within 1 thou of my target dimension, and with 2 tenths taper between the two bores. So that's not too bad.

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I wasn't totally happy though. Due to the cross slide, when I exited a bore it relaxed and the back side of the boring bar cut a chamfer. (look towards the back of the bore and you can see the finish change. Surface finish was decent, but could be better.

I have since worked out some work-around for the slopping cross slide which make boring go smoothly.

To improve the bore, I decided to use one of dad's adjustable reamers. To do so, I first had to adjust the tailstock. I'll cover that soon.

I haven't used adjustable reamers much, so I had it set about 15 thou strong and took off another 20 from the bore. That's fine, plenty of material.

The reamer left an absolutely gorgeous finish and with maybe 1 tenth of taper. Nice!

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[ClappedOutBport]

For the bushings, a user on another forum gave me some Ampco 18. Thanks much to him, that stuff is expensive!

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My finished product looked great. There is a learning curve to Ampco, but it turns very nicely once you know a bit about it.

I got them pressed in, and... ****.

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They look good but the mesh of the gears was awful. As said in the previous post, I have wedged the shaft to be as tight as possible towards the other gear, yet after making the bushings, it needed to go closer. Like 70 thou closer. I don't know if it was bad from the factory (I don't think so, the quality has been perfect everywhere on this machine), or I screwed up in my machining, or in my setup. Likely the last.

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Anyway. I wasn't happy. Bad contact, and the contact with the other gear and the cluster was poor too. I wasn't going to live with it.

So, new strategy. Bore an offset bushing on the Bridgeport.

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I did the math on the gears and figured out the theoretical center to center distance. Then indicating the 3" gear's bore I moved and indicated the new bore and measured the difference with the DRO. I got 3.070, instead of the 3" it should be.

Next I made multiples practice sets of aluminum offset bushings to proof the method. I also adjusted the offsets slightly each time to dial in both fits to be perfect.

End result: perfection

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It's a little thin on one side. Could wear through and spin in the bore. Since I actually know how to use an oil can and Ampco is tough stuff, I'm not too worried. The bore finished at 1.2505, and the shaft was 1.2495, although it was worn about 4 thou in most tumbler positions.

So there's about 40 hours of work in two posts. Whew!

 

[Roberts210]

Impressive work. Stick-to-itness pays off!

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Thank you Robert!

-----------
To run the reamer in the previous post, I needed to first alight the tailstock. I started by spinning a dial indicator around it in a noga. This doesn't account for indicator sag, but I figure it to be pretty minimal.

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This was... sort of depressing. With the wear in the barrel, ways, and tailstock base, the indicator read a delta of 60 thou. So 30 thousands low. Oof. I found a piece of 27.5 thou thick aluminum and shoved in the parting line between the lower and upper half of the tailstock. I was surprised the centering bolts had enough room to allow it. And wow! Nailed it first try. Delta of 1/2 thou.

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Next, I extended the quill out fully, locked it and slid an indicator along the top. It fell a bit towards the back, so I added a 4.5 thou shim at the rear. It now only changed about 3 thou along the length of the quill, which is probably good enough for now.

To slide the shim in I just lifted it with lab jack and a board across the ways. If you don't have a lab jack you need one!

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So even though that exercise started as a disaster, I think it ended a lot better. I'll have to see how stiff it is when taking heavy cuts with all the wear in the barrel. It's better when retracted.

I will say after using it some now that I will probably be line-boring the tailstock and making a new quill at some point. The quill has been shortened 3/4" due to excessive reaming of the taper (I'm guessing). It still needs another 1/16" taken off as some drills bottom out and won't get tight. Given the damage to the screw and general slop, I plan to re-do it all.

 

[86turbodsl]

Beautiful work. Man i hope the Pacemaker doesn't need that kind of work...

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Beautiful work. Man i hope the Pacemaker doesn't need that kind of work...

Thanks 86. I hope so for you as well, because as I know know, if a lathe needs this kind of work it's probably a worn out POS anyway. Seems like yours is just rusty, you've got a lot more way metal left than me...

Now that I'm using it it's fairly usable, but sort of a paint to hit tight tolerance on. I wouldn't use it for that, but dad crashed the Lagun and stripped a change gear. As usual, I get to fix it.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

So with the Tumbler finished up, back to the gearbox.

The gearbox being fully washed was then wire-wheeled, masked, and painted.

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(Must have forgotten to take a photo of it painted).

I started re-assembling it. This has really been a head-bashing process.

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I got the first shaft in pretty easily.

hen the gear cluster was pretty tricky. It came apart easily. But to put it back together you have to get most of the gears on, then wiggle the last couple onto the primary (keyed) diameter, while you slowly hammer the bearing into place. The gears are of course ground and barely fit on at all. Many cuss words were had. We finally got it in and I got the second bearing installed. Yay!

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Except, I then realized that this gear+shaft assembly must be loosely fit into the bore before the cluster goes in. It's a tight press fit, no way to fit it in and assemble it. (I should say it's not worth the effort to do so, it is possible.)

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That sucked big time. Even having the benefit of having done it once, reassembling the cluster the second time was just as slow if not worse. Every single piece in the gearbox has to be installed in order, and missing just one could require stripping the entire box again. The are a lot of press fits that have to be moved at once, and often the only answer is just a BFH, which doesn't help the anxiety of assembling it. I'm assuming that Sidney used some sort of a screw or hydraulic jig that allowed them to have steady force.

This was one of the hardest things I've ever done in the shop. Definitely stressed me out a bit.

------------------------

This bushing had its oil lines get clogged and as a result wore about 10 thousands. It was serviceable, but I decided to fix it while in there and have a new bushing on order from McMaster. I just bored the steel and pressed the new bushing in, easy fix.

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Then I had to get that gear back in that we had to heat to remove. I'd pushed it in and out a few times on the arbor press, it is about a 2-3 ton fit I'd estimate.

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That is how you bend a clamp. ^ Dad's two best Williams clamps couldn't be used because they didn't have sliding handles, but the old junky ones, a cheater bar, and some hammering did the trick. I'd love to see the jig used at the factory.

The rest of it went together pretty easy.

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I did find one more issue I missed. The leadscrew output runs in two bronze bushings. (Or at least it did when we got the machine.) When reassembling it, it just wasn't lining up right. After inspecting it, I noticed that the bushing housing was backwards. The previous "mechanics" had put the bushings in the wrong side and installed it backwards. Worse still, this meant the oil hole was blocked, which didn't matter anyway because they never drilled it. Like, WTF? Why go to all that work to put new bushings in and then be too lazy to drill one 5/16" hole? I just don't get it...

Anyway, we pushed the bushings to the other side and drilled it. Ideally I would have put some new ones in. They were a little worn from running dry and the shaft had some small amount of play. But that would have meant waiting a week before I could work on it again, and it needed to get done. Ah well, it'll be fine for 5k+ hours now that it has oil feed.

With that fixed, I "painted" everything with a coat of oil and there was nothing left to do but install it...

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Mom and dad came over for assistance and we got it installed. It's pretty sketchy, but there is a 5/16-18 threaded hole for a cover which happens to be exactly at the center of balance. Using that, an eyehook, and an overextend engine crane, and installing it was not bad. I'd estimate the weight at between 200-250 lbs.

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Dad opted to polish the tumbler handle for some extra bling. I thought it was gaudy at first, but it's kind nice. Very easy to clean at the least.

It was very nice to have this done. I estimate that I put about 80 hours of work into this gearbox.

 

[86turbodsl]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Good work. This is why I'm avoiding tearing the pacemaker apart.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

 

[ClappedOutBport]

Here's a part of the machine that I fixed a few month's back but never got around to posting.

On the end-gearing between the headstock and the feed-box, there are two idler gears that ran on roller bearings.

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They were totally and completely worn out. One was so bad 50% of the inner race had disintegrated.

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I didn't exactly know what to do in replacing them. I searched far and wide and found no matches or even any close roller bearings that weren't $80+ and I'd need like 4. I discovered that R12 bearings have the same ID (3/4") and an OD that was only larger by 1/16". So that seemed like a logical choice. So I made a thread on PM asking for advice and got some good opinions. Initially I was gonna go with 3 bearings but I ended up using just two, spaced equidistant from the ends of the gear.

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(Left is the original setup, right is my mockup.)

So I chucked each gear up in the 4 jaw and bored it from each end for a press-fit on the bearings. (Two were slip fits, but a little bearing retainer fixes that). The gears were hardened slightly, but very machinable with carbide. I left just under 3/8" in the middle.

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Before, the big outer washer clamped on the inner race, and the gear just bounced around between the frame and the outer washer. There was nothing to control any thrust load, though there should never be any. I wanted mine to be clamped on the inner race, but also fix the position. So I made a 3/8" spacer for the middle and then two 0.135" spacers for the inside and outside which left 10 thousands gap between the washer/frame and the gear. I meant to get you all pictures of this, but we were making such rapid assembly progress I forgot. Here is one that shows the bearings on the one side, you'll have to use your imagination on the spacers/other side.

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The middle spacer had an internal groove and 4 holes to allow the grease to move get into the bearings. The inner shields were removed and the gits replaced with grease *******.

Here is finished up and mounted and I am extremely pleased. They run extremely smooth, silently, and they are aligned perfectly.

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I would dare-say that this turned out even better than the factory bearings. It's certainly tighter, and it won't wear the frame anymore (not that it had any significant wear after 77 years, so moot point.) I ran the entire gear-train with it installed and it these gears run fantastically. The teeth are basically unworn after all these years.

 

[ClappedOutBport]

I forgot a photo before, but I installed felt for the oiling reservoirs before I capped off the gearbox.

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Not much to show getting the rods back in. Just a lot of fiddling with keys and pins. I lost both woodruff keys for the feedshaft and leadscrew so I had to mill new ones down.

I still had a little left to do.

Gotta put a second taper pin in the clutch linkage. We uh... didn't do the best job drilling it in place. (Later I learned it could be removed with this lever in situ.)

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And the leadscrew reverse handle that dad re-brazed cracked immediately. No penetration. He's not the best at getting his flux down in there.

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My good work on the tail bracket paid off. Went together like it was made for it. My custom pipe cap piece worked perfectly, with just barely enough clearance to spare. You'd have to have a sharp eye to know it isn't factory. I filled both the leadscrew and feed-shaft up with oil until it flowed out, and they don't leak. That makes me very happy.

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So here's the controls (more or less) finished up.

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And here is the rest of the machine. It sure looks a lot different than it did on page one. Whether you like the paint or not, it is very presentable now.

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Initially, I didn't get the warm fuzzies. The feed was quite jumpy, and even the leadscrew was too. I was feeling a bit discouraged, having invested all that time in it. But I decided to play a bit on it, see how it worked. That made me feel a lot better. I faced a piece of steel off, 3/16 width of cut 7 thou feed, ~500 RPM and it laughed at it. Didn't care at all. I'm sure it would be even better if it was factory scraped and had good contact patches and all that. Even still, she will eat. I am really not used to a lathe that can chew metal like that.

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The more I have used it since then, the better I've liked it. The leadscrew and feed smoothed out when the gear wore in a bit. Still doing some small fixes. Stay tuned and I'll wrap this thread up shortly.

 

[Roberts210]

Re: Disaster Lathe: 1943 Sidney

Before:

And after:

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And besides looking pretty... IT WORKS.

 

[Packard V8]

Congrats on persevering long past when most would have given up. Now you know your machine inside and out and can feel what is happening with it and know why.

jack vines

 

[ClappedOutBport]

And after:
And besides looking pretty... IT WORKS.

Man, that second photo. That was truly at it's worst. I'm still surprised that we only lost a few small pieces.

Congrats on persevering long past when most would have given up. Now you know your machine inside and out and can feel what is happening with it and know why.

jack vines

Thank you Packard V8. Yes, I do know it very intimately now, which is a big advantage.