Weird garage alarm goes off?!?

[Sevenhills1952]

My garage I installed alarm when built in late 80s, hardwired magnetic switches walk-in doors. Loud sirens in cupola above 2nd floor. About 10 years ago I added some motion detectors.
Over all these years very few false alarms (one heavy wind+temp change opened a door).
Wednesday night 9pm I set alarm, then 2am alarm wakes us up. Everything is secure, so I set reset alarm.
This morning, exact same time 2am, alarm goes off. This time I call police. We checked everything, all is well.
What I can't understand is why it would go off twice exactly 2am and without any sign of entry.
Curious if anyone ever had this happen and solution? Police suggested cameras. To me...that's too late.
Thanks.

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[justsam]

I would try to isolate between wired magnetic sensors, and the motion detects. Is this an actual intrusion alarm or perhaps a tamper detect from the motion sensors? Do you have any event set to occur at 2 AM, such as compressor turn on, EV charge, etc?

 

[aggie113]

Suspect transient electrical issue as suggested above. Did you add anything new to the garage circuits? Check the alarm board and see if you have any old capacitors going bad. Dialectric fluids only last so long.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I would try to isolate between wired magnetic sensors, and the motion detects. Is this an actual intrusion alarm or perhaps a tamper detect from the motion sensors? Do you have any event set to occur at 2 AM, such as compressor turn on, EV charge, etc?

No timer or 2am event. I keep compressor off, power strips off when not in use. I could understand if a recurring event...but 2 nights in a row, same time. There's no wifi in there.
It's dark.

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[Sevenhills1952]

Suspect transient electrical issue as suggested above. Did you add anything new to the garage circuits? Check the alarm board and see if you have any old capacitors going bad. Dialectric fluids only last so long.

I could check caps.

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[TuxThePenguin]

Dude, get cameras. "Too late"? What kind of ridiculous excuse is that?!?!? It could help you determine if someone's trying to get in. And if someone does get in, sure they won't stop anyone from taking your stuff, but getting someone on video sure helps police track suspects.

Install. Some. Cameras.

Geez.

Cameras can make up a part of a security system.. nobody told you that you would have to rely 100% just on the cameras. You can still have other stuff in your system. The parts of the system work together to increase your overall security, even if every part of the system is imperfect, and the system as a sum is also imperfect.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Dude, get cameras. "Too late"? What kind of ridiculous excuse is that?!?!? It could help you determine if someone's trying to get in. And if someone does get in, sure they won't stop anyone from taking your stuff, but getting someone on video sure helps police track suspects.

Install. Some. Cameras.

Geez.

Cameras can make up a part of a security system.. nobody told you that you would have to rely 100% just on the cameras. You can still have other stuff in your system. The parts of the system work together to increase your overall security, even if every part of the system is imperfect, and the system as a sum is also imperfect.

I agree!
I'm putting dead bolts on doors now since I determined by pushing in at top 1" is enough to set alarm off. Dead bolts up high prevents that. It's possible as police said my system is being tested.
Another thing, it's a large building and I leave doors open at times it could be an animal, so I have a live trap set now.
I don't want wifi, and I already have hunter cameras. I just need to use them! [emoji848]
Anyone here ever try ADT? That's also a thought.

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[Kaizen]

I know where I would be with my shotgun at 2am tonight.


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[Sevenhills1952]

Me too. Here's the weird thing. At 1am this morning alarm goes off AGAIN (3rd time now). I check...going down quietly...I have motion detector lights and none were on.
Went back to house, turned off all lights, stayed up til 4am peeking through a window blind. Everything quiet, no motion light ever came on, horse asleep in stall not far away.
I had Glock ready. Slept a few hours, down there at 8:30...everything was perfect. No animal in trap.
What blows my mind is why 1am to 2am.
A few days I never go in garage...so why doesn't alarm go off at 10pm, 4am, noon, etc.
It makes absolutely no sense.


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[nadogail]

Maybe a neighbor drives by on his way to work and his exhaust rattles something.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I agree!
I'm putting dead bolts on doors now since I determined by pushing in at top 1" is enough to set alarm off. Dead bolts up high prevents that. It's possible as police said my system is being tested.
Another thing, it's a large building and I leave doors open at times it could be an animal, so I have a live trap set now.
I don't want wifi, and I already have hunter cameras. I just need to use them! [emoji848]
Anyone here ever try ADT? That's also a thought.

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ADT is horrible.

Is that who your alarm company is?

Is this a monitored system or standalone self monitored?

If monitored, there should be an event logged that triggers the alarm.

without knowing what sensor is tripping it, its gonna be next to impossible to figure out.

I have simplisafe and it works great! any alarm event is pushed to my phone via text AND app, cameras log video, etc.

 

[yatg]

Rats can trip motion detectors.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Maybe a neighbor drives by on his way to work and his exhaust rattles something.

No...too far away., but thanks for idea.

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[Sevenhills1952]

ADT is horrible.



Is that who your alarm company is?



Is this a monitored system or standalone self monitored?



If monitored, there should be an event logged that triggers the alarm.



without knowing what sensor is tripping it, its gonna be next to impossible to figure out.



I have simplisafe and it works great! any alarm event is pushed to my phone via text AND app, cameras log video, etc.

I don't have ADT. It's not monitored.
I can certainly understand a bad connection, bad motion detector or door magnetic switch. That all makes sense. Even the main control box malfunction. What I cannot understand is why 1am to 2am?
I'm at garage now. Nothing has touched by food bait. Even a rat or mouse if not caught would eat some food.
It's all hard wired, no wifi. It's on a farm...nothing around for a long way. Windows are up on second story. There are two large windows up a steep bank, bottom of windows up about 5ft from ground. Screens are on outside, nothing has been messed with.
Three nights in a row.
When I sat up last night 3 hours not one car went down road which is 400ft away.

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[wyliesdiesels]

what kind of system is this? surely there must be a way to view what sensor is tripping. If not id junk it and get a new alarm system. nothing worse than not knowing whats going on

simplisafe is great and for $25/mon can be professionally monitored

 

[softailgarage]

Its going off at exactly 1:00 or 2:00? sounds like a time or timer issue. Check the settings and replace if necessary.

 

[Will S.]

With that system being 30 years old, and not even being zoned (mistake right from the get go), it past time to upgrade.

Buy a DSC 832 Power Series control panel with keypad, and if the mag contacts are not Sentrol or other top brand, replace them. Motion detectors; buy one or two Napco PIR motion detectors, or even the DSC PIR's that come packaged with the panel, if you buy the package system, are better than what you have. Technology has come a long was in the last decade, not the mention since that original system was installed. If the existing wiring can be replaced; I would. A staple through the insulation can become a problem; mouse chewing through wiring, also a possibility.

You can program the Power Series panels to be just a local alarm, as you have now, or later, be a C/S monitored system, without needing any other equipment. It's just a program change (and a phone line or Uplink cellular data link for monitoring by a C/S).

If you do this, you will have a solid reliable system, and alarm zone indication at the keypad(s) ... (maybe even install a 2nd keypad in your house). Even if the alarm trips when you're not around, the keypad shows that an alarm event occurred, and which zone tripped it. So entry door on a zone; other doors/windows on their own zones; motion detectors each or their zones; if system tampering caused alarm, that info is stored. Standby battery supervision with low battery reporting (key shows an amber trouble light; press the keypad trouble display, and it shows you the exact cause of system troubles (which don't cause alarms; just makes you aware that system maintenance is needed).

All this probably for $350~$400 if you do the work. Don't want to spend the money? What's the loss if they get into the shop, and what's the price of peace of mind?

 

[Kaizen]

So now we know it’s not someone or horse and lights would alert. So system or sensor is bad. As said maybe time for new setup just to be finished with problem.


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[alfredeneuman]

My garage I installed alarm when built in late 80s, hardwired magnetic switches walk-in doors. What I can't understand is why it would go off twice exactly 2am and without any sign of entry.

Your past claim (My background in electronics engineering far surpasses his) when talking about an electrician is a clue that you shouldn't be even asking that question here. You, as a lifetime electronics technician, ought to be able to figure that out for yourself.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I don't believe anyone with a doctorate degree from MIT could figure this out!
I did replace the panel (I'm guessing) about 8 years ago.
Only recently having problems. Then three nights (early mornings) in a row...1am-2am alarm goes off.
Yesterday I parked a car where I could see/hear everything, car basically hidden from view, interior lights switched off, I'm wearing dark clothes. 9mm, flashlight, phone. I sit pitch dark...motionless...until 3am! Alarm never went off!!! Motion lights never came on, anywhere.
I quietly go to house...alarm never goes off.
Even now, Sunday 2pm...alarm is activated, never has gone off.
Animal trap baited with can of cat food...puree so smooth top surface. Even a mouse you'd see where it ate some...but nothing.
I shake doors, beat where switches and sensors are from outside...alarm doesn't go off.
My electronics background only increases this puzzle, makes no logical sense.

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[wyliesdiesels]

Is there a reason why youre not just buying a new system that makes this kind of issue easier to diagnose?

 

[softailgarage]

Your past claim (My background in electronics engineering far surpasses his) when talking about an electrician is a clue that you shouldn't be even asking that question here. You, as a lifetime electronics technician, ought to be able to figure that out for yourself.

Either this is a trick question and you're well aware of the answer or there's a short in the system, probably related to the timer mechanism.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Either this is a trick question and you're well aware of the answer or there's a short in the system, probably related to the timer mechanism.

No trick question. There is no timer mechanism. What I was hoping for is someone saying they had same issue and it was ______.
We just got back from our closest friends/neighbors who heard the alarm go off (not loud for them) but enough to awaken them.
Thinking about it I'm leaning towards a bat.
We have small brown bats, and most animals have a routine. Cupola is vented with louvers and screens. Maybe a hole in screen?
I could change out the whole system, I've always rather troubleshoot something.
Thanks anyway.


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[softailgarage]

Well, ya got me baffled too, Will be watching for an outcome

 

[jjkrjh]

Daylight savings screwed up time? 2:00am then 1:00am

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Daylight savings screwed up time? 2:00am then 1:00am

Ours changes in 3 days (daylight saving).
It hasn't gone off in a few days. Checking hunter cameras they didn't trigger either last night, also strange. They just caught my ugly mug turning them on then off.
I've never hunted (except lots of ground hogs), any hunters here may know...I'm curious about night vision and high power flashlights. Can they turn on motion detectors?


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[Rc_Guy]

Daylight savings screwed up time? 2:00am then 1:00am

Ours changes in 3 days (daylight saving).
It hasn't gone off in a few days. Checking hunter cameras they didn't trigger either last night, also strange. They just caught my ugly mug turning them on then off.
I've never hunted (except lots of ground hogs), any hunters here may know...I'm curious about night vision and high power flashlights. Can they turn on motion detectors?


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Yes. Changes Sunday

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Maybe add a camera or two inside with recording capability? Earlier this year, my son texted to say they a bat in the house. After dealing with the immediate problem, they reviewed video from the previous night and saw that the bat had also been flying around that night. Due to COVID, everyone had been home all day before they actually saw the bat with their eyes to trigger their concern.

Your thinking it may be a bat sounds like the most logical explanation. They can squeeze through very small openings.

 

[jjkrjh]

Daylight savings screwed up time? 2:00am then 1:00am

What I was trying to say is the date wrong? Your system is switching, or trying to change to Daylight savings and something is screwing up. Time switches at 2am and falls back to 1am. In this time period. Just a possibility of coincidence.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

It went off 3 times in a row...2am, 2am, then 1am. Daylight savings changes here Sunday Nov 1st.
Wife and I were sitting on deck behind garage a couple hours ago watching a brown bat feeding near horse stable. I'm thinking that's what it is.
The time is what's so weird.
I really don't believe it's a switch, detector, wiring or panel problem.

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[jimindm]

I would say you are overthinking it. I have been there.

I have set up that is going on 25 years old now. Has three motion detectors in my main garage, shed, and a second smaller garage. Also have a plunger switch in the entry door frame for the entry and exit delay.

Over time I have experienced just what you are going through. More than once. Almost every time, it has happened at certain times of the evening or night.

One time it was going off at about midnight, a few nights in a row. Skip a few nights and a few more times. Found it to be the smaller garage motion sensor. Something internal in it. I found if it was sunny out in the early evening, and above about 90 degrees. It would trip.

The garage has no venting, just pretty much a large enclosed shed. I did not get to far into it, but just putting a fan in an opened door for an hour in the evening was enough to not set it off.

This time of year there are two things that come to mind, and I am speaking from experience. Spiders would be the first. I spray around my motion sensors to combat it, but they still like to build webs around and it front of them. Honestly the sensors are in corners, that is where you find spider webs. I can not tell you why it happens at certain times, but it does.

For me it is the furnace. Every year it is something. You turn it on in the fall and it blows something. Usually at the same time every night. It finally cools down enough to kick on about the same time. Now when i put it in use in the fall, I just set up a chair, turn it up and watch what it blows around.

It can be that tool magazine sitting on the top shelf that the cover is sort of bent up and flips up every now and then. It can be a flap off the top of a box, on a shelf. It can be a repair manual opened up on the hood of a vehicle you are working on. My kids when they were young made a mobile out of a framing square and a few tools hung by yarn. Hanging it from a light was a good place for it, until the furnace blew it around. It can be a hanging trouble light you got and decided to hang it up.

The point I am making is that the system maybe working fine, something has changed around the system, and you need to really think outside the box to figure it out.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Thanks, that's what I'm doing.
No spiders around detectors and I wiped off covers anyway. Furnace hasn't been turned on this year. Nothing new/changed prior to alarms, 3 in a row then stopped. Hasn't gone off now in days. I have cameras now, first time cameras off at 1am, 2am, but no alarm. Now cameras don't go off!

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[couch67]

Thanks, that's what I'm doing.
No spiders around detectors and I wiped off covers anyway. Furnace hasn't been turned on this year. Nothing new/changed prior to alarms, 3 in a row then stopped. Hasn't gone off now in days. I have cameras now, first time cameras off at 1am, 2am, but no alarm. Now cameras don't go off!

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Nothing in the camera recordings when they go off? Are they set to include a few seconds of recording before the trip occurs?

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Nothing in the camera recordings when they go off? Are they set to include a few seconds of recording before the trip occurs?

Haven't had an alarm event in almost a week. The cameras have their own detector.
If I have alarms then I would have cameras record from 12:30 until 2:30.

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[tre873]

Does the alarm have a backup battery? Some alarms will switch off the external power supply at a certain time to check the battery. If the battery isn't good, it could cause the alarm to trip when it cycles back to external power.

 

[jdieter]

PIR detectors check for a temperature change not actually motion. So you enter a room your body temperature isdifferent than room temperature a PIR trips. Had a similar problem my alarm guy said it may be furnace coming on. So I used a piece of black tape to block edge of sensor window towards furnace. it reduced false trips, but still get one occasionally, just not as often.

I look at the event log before I grab the pistola and if the time between a sensor trip and reset is a second I know its a false trip. Even FLASH can't get through a door or past a PIR field of view that quickly, as for rats I've got my PIR set to the max for dog size, I think its 70lbs, that wouldn't be a rat I wouldn't want to take on umarmed.
I use the DSC stuff, self monitered, it gives me a cell phone text beside the alarm horn. That's nice as I can monitor/arm/disarm the system when away from home. Also have surveillance cameras via internet to phone along with dvr. Kinda nice watching the deer dance around in the snow on the driveway when I'm setting in sunny FL having a cold one.

I self monitor because if the internet is down my alarm trip would never reach a monitoring service anyway.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

PIR detectors check for a temperature change not actually motion. So you enter a room your body temperature isdifferent than room temperature a PIR trips. Had a similar problem my alarm guy said it may be furnace coming on. So I used a piece of black tape to block edge of sensor window towards furnace. it reduced false trips, but still get one occasionally, just not as often.

I look at the event log before I grab the pistola and if the time between a sensor trip and reset is a second I know its a false trip. Even FLASH can't get through a door or past a PIR field of view that quickly, as for rats I've got my PIR set to the max for dog size, I think its 70lbs, that wouldn't be a rat I wouldn't want to take on umarmed.
I use the DSC stuff, self monitered, it gives me a cell phone text beside the alarm horn. That's nice as I can monitor/arm/disarm the system when away from home. Also have surveillance cameras via internet to phone along with dvr. Kinda nice watching the deer dance around in the snow on the driveway when I'm setting in sunny FL having a cold one.

I self monitor because if the internet is down my alarm trip would never reach a monitoring service anyway.

no cellular service for backup? I have simplisafe and it uses Wifi and if that goes down it switches to cellular backup.

 

[Will S.]

Does the alarm have a backup battery? Some alarms will switch off the external power supply at a certain time to check the battery. If the battery isn't good, it could cause the alarm to trip when it cycles back to external power.

With 40 years in the business of installing and servicing alarm systems, I have never heard of such a thing.

Alarm control panels monitor battery condition and report battery trouble (to both the keypad and to central station monitor) without ever removing primary power. Tell us what make/model panels do this.

To the OP, I have seen RF interference from nearby transmitters (or higher powered transmitters at a distance) trip some especially older, PIR's, and also could cause an alarm panel to trigger, of RF was induced into one of the perimeter loops.

You could temporarily bypass a PIR at the panel, by disconnecting that sensor at the panel, and installing an EOL resistor in place. Or replace that PIR with a new (better) one.

You could also install RF beads on the zone terminals in the panel, and on the wiring in the PIR's. I assume you know proper way to use ferrite beads. This could solve it IF a strong RF field is being fed into the system circuitry.

I still don[t know why you don't have your system mag switches and PIR's each connected to separate zones on a new 6 or 8 zone panel. That would always show you what zone caused the alarm, AND allow keypad bypassing of a troublesome zone until a repair can be made.

 

[tre873]

Maybe it doesn't switch off the power, but our alarm would trigger at 5pm everyday when the battery was faulty. It was giving an error code for the backup battery while doing this. After replacing the battery, it never happened again. Maybe it was a coincidence.

 

[Will S.]

Maybe it doesn't switch off the power, but our alarm would trigger at 5pm everyday when the battery was faulty. It was giving an error code for the backup battery while doing this. After replacing the battery, it never happened again. Maybe it was a coincidence.

Not necessarily a coincidence, but if the battery was bad, even a momentary power spike or interruption of milliseconds would do it. I have used a continuous recording instantaneous voltmeter (think oscilloscope that continually records waveform), reveal unbelievable voltage spikes and drops, right from the utility company. Lights never flicker or blink (LED's might).