How important is SEER rating on mini splits for a garage?

[jpcjguy]

Hi all,

Looking at a pair of 24,000 BTU 16 SEER Mitsubishi Mini-Split Single Zone Heat Pump - MZ-WR24NA
If I buy them by the end of the month (and for cash) I can get them for $1500 a piece with $500 install per unit - total $4000
Based on the pricing search I have done online, it seems like a pretty good deal. My other option is the Mr. Cool DIY - the 24k 3rd generation units at $1664 a piece and they are 20 SEER.

I am not afraid of the DIY install, but looking at final shipped price of the DIY from Ingrams I am at $3550. So having them professionally installed for $450 might be worth it!

So I really don't know much on the mini-splits and looking for thoughts!

Thanks

 

[mike93lx]

A $500 pro install sounds like a hack job.

 

[lonestardiver]

A 20 SEER unit is more efficient than a 16 SEER unit which equates to savings on the power bill as I understand it.

 

[jpcjguy]

A $500 pro install sounds like a hack job.[/QUOTE

I can understand that. This deal is through a good friend of mine who is also buying 2 units for his detached garage that is currently being built. It is the same guy that has installed units for him in the past and functioned great and appeared to be a quality install (from what I could see at his previous places).

 

[jpcjguy]

A 20 SEER unit is more efficient than a 16 SEER unit which equates to savings on the power bill as I understand it.

Agreed - I understand it that way also - but is it worth "chasing" SEER and paying up front vs. a return that could take 15 years or more - if ever in power bill savings. That is what I am trying to determine...

 

[yeldogt]

Are they some sort of discontinued model ?

 

[vavet]

I'm always a little sketchy on deals that have to be in cash. YMMV

Energy savings takes a while to pay back. For my garage, efficiency of the mini split was not a high priority because I knew I wouldn't be trying to keep it perfectly comfortable all the time. As long as it's more than 50 in the winter and less than 85 in the summer, I'm pretty happy. You'll probably fee similar if this garage is a workshop. If it's a mancave, you might care a little more.
Other things to keep in mind - what's the installation situation? Is one of them upstairs? Will you be running lines through the wall that is 20 feet above ground level? I would put a pretty high value on someone else installing that.

It seems like there were reports earlier this year on GJ of Ingrahams being slow with shipping. Not sure if that has been resolved. If the pro installer can produce the Mitsubishi units next week, then there is value in that vs ordering from Ingrahams for an uncertain delivery date.

The downside is...you don't get the fun of installing a mini-split. Just kidding, it's really not that much fun. It's not terrible, but there are other things I'd rather do.

 

[rsanter]

Seasonal energy efficiency rating.
The 20 is more energy efficient than the 16 and will cost you les to operate.
For the price difference you are better with the 20

 

[tdkkart]

A $500 pro install sounds like a hack job.

I'm always a little sketchy on deals that have to be in cash.

Why does everyone assume that getting a job done for less money than they've paid means that it' a hack job or somehow illegal?

There are still people out there that do good work for a case of beer, friends and family rate, or just because they're not self centered asses.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

A local Trane dealer recently told me that Trane and Mitsubishi merged over a year ago.
That seems like a really small price increase to go from SEER 16 to SEER 20.
Maybe if this was apples to apples in the same brand the answer would be obvious.
Hope that helps.

 

[mike93lx]

Why does everyone assume that getting a job done for less money than they've paid means that it' a hack job or somehow illegal?

There are still people out there that do good work for a case of beer, friends and family rate, or just because they're not self centered asses.

It is pretty reasonable to assume that a job that normally can cost a couple grand will have some corners cut for $500.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Not if it has to run longer to do its job. It's probably a wash.

 

[Done That]

SEER is efficiency for AC, HSPF for heating. Depending on your usage one may be more important than the other. Yes, they generally track together, but it can be worth understanding both rating points.

 

[justinjoyal]

Fyi:

https://www.seerenergysavings.com/

 

[Jim greengo]

Why does everyone assume that getting a job done for less money than they've paid means that it' a hack job or somehow illegal?

There are still people out there that do good work for a case of beer, friends and family rate, or just because they're not self centered asses.

I havent seen where they're being installed,so it's hard telling how good of a deal it is.
As far as higher seer ratings go ,it normally means more expensive parts that break and harder to work on.

 

[Jim greengo]

It is pretty reasonable to assume that a job that normally can cost a couple grand will have some corners cut for $500.

That's $500.00 for each unit,not for both.
If the head is being mounted right inside the wall from where the condensing unit is $500 each sounds about right,but we dont have all the details though.

 

[Jim greengo]

Fyi:

https://www.seerenergysavings.com/

Those operating costs are really meaningless unless you know the local weather conditions of your area and how the house/garage is put together and insulated.

 

[jpcjguy]

Thanks for all the feedback. As for the install it is $500 each. Attached is a pic of the building and the rough location of each unit. Left side of garage is a 10 foot wall and the right bay is 12 foot wall.
The outside units would be behind the garage, ideally mounted higher up on the wall to keep them out of the way, as I use the back space for small trailer parking.

 

[jjrbus]

I live in an electric co-op area, our electric cost is quite low, base rate is $0.076 for the first 500 Kwh. Spending money for higher SEER would be a waste of money as the payback time would be very long. Also higher SEER is also more technical and complicated, which is more prone to problems. One service call would wipe out 5 years of savings.

The SEER calculators as near as I could figure are designed by people trying to sell high SEER equipment and about as accurate as square footage BTU calculators.

Of course my opinion and worth what you are paying for it.

 

[justinjoyal]

Those operating costs are really meaningless unless you know the local weather conditions of your area and how the house/garage is put together and insulated.

Of course they are, it’s just a rough estimate.

I dont think high seer is important for a garage in VA, unless electricity is very expensive or something.

 

[mike93lx]

I live in an electric co-op area, our electric cost is quite low, base rate is $0.076 for the first 500 Kwh. Spending money for higher SEER would be a waste of money as the payback time would be very long. Also higher SEER is also more technical and complicated, which is more prone to problems. One service call would wipe out 5 years of savings.

The SEER calculators as near as I could figure are designed by people trying to sell high SEER equipment and about as accurate as square footage BTU calculators.

Of course my opinion and worth what you are paying for it.

There are people that have a goal of reducing energy consumption and don't just care about energy cost.

I would not say it is a waste of money. A better way to put it is that it won't net a cost savings.

There is also no guarantee that your energy costs won't go up.

 

[Tduby]

I live in an electric co-op area, our electric cost is quite low, base rate is $0.076 for the first 500 Kwh. Spending money for higher SEER would be a waste of money as the payback time would be very long. Also higher SEER is also more technical and complicated, which is more prone to problems. One service call would wipe out 5 years of savings.

The SEER calculators as near as I could figure are designed by people trying to sell high SEER equipment and about as accurate as square footage BTU calculators.

Of course my opinion and worth what you are paying for it.

I totally agree about more problematic technology in higher seer and I honestly think reliability suffers. I really wish they could give you a graph of btu/watt I suspect in a garage it will be on full tilt or off negating any potential savings of running at a lower output.
but since you are already looking at a minisplit and sounds like a reasonable priced technician might be worth it. I would ask the guy doing the install what he thinks.

 

[AP514]

I think you get what you pay for in Quality and Cost Savings.

I purchased 2 - 18 seer units 17 years ago and they are still running strong.
2.5 and a 3 ton for my 3K SF house. The savings over the 16 seer units have paid for the price of the original units.
I will say the higher the seer vs purchase cost you will get diminished returns.

 

[My Old Tools]

How much are you going to run them? 8 hours a day 6 days a week, or 8 hours every other Saturday?

 

[jpcjguy]

How much are you going to run them? 8 hours a day 6 days a week, or 8 hours every other Saturday?

There will be a gym setup in one area, so ideally for an hour or two daily and then some evenings and weekends as time permits for wrenching, projects, etc.

I have also attached my rate schedule for my electric cooperative. Looks like based on my usage, I am paying a little less than $.04 per kWh

 

[mike93lx]

There will be a gym setup in one area, so ideally for an hour or two daily and then some evenings and weekends as time permits for wrenching, projects, etc.

I have also attached my rate schedule for my electric cooperative. Looks like based on my usage, I am paying a little less than $.04 per kWh

That is just delivery. You have to add supply to it

 

[jpcjguy]

Whoops! You are correct.

Here is my breakdown from my last bill

 

[Tracs]

Whoops! You are correct.

Here is my breakdown from my last bill

Your cost is almost $0.11/kwh, that's pretty high.

Higher SEER doesn't mean its gonna break down and cost more money to fix.

You are saving $1000 on installation. Spend the $164 per unit and get the better units.

 

[My Old Tools]

With that little usage higher SEER will never pay back.

 

[AP514]

With that little usage higher SEER will never pay back.

Agreed +1

 

[TRITOON]

Heat pump or ac, on your regular house MAY be worth the price of a slightly higher SEER rating (without getting into the exotic range), but that is because it may be ran 24/7/365.

But on hobby garage or weekend place, you arent going to hit the break even point.

 

[yeldogt]

In PA our power is almost 2x that and I use more then 2x yours .... so I'm more of a SEER watcher .....

Are you sure of the 16 ? Mitsubishi is a leader and they must be old to be 16's. I don't think you will see much savings ... you will have too much cooling so whatever you install is not going to run at the most efficient range

Also -- this idea that high SEER = more complex and problematic. I hear this from people all the time ... what's complex? More transistors on a board ... all mini splits have boards and VS fans and VS compressors .... it's all in the construction.

Same with split system -- I have been doing zoning and multistage equipment for 30+ years and have never had any real issues. It's all in the install -- proper sizing ..proper install is the most important thing

 

[mike93lx]

Your cost is almost $0.11/kwh, that's pretty high.

Higher SEER doesn't mean its gonna break down and cost more money to fix.

You are saving $1000 on installation. Spend the $164 per unit and get the better units.

11 cents is not high at all compared to most of the country. It's actually well below the average