High torque vs mid-torque cordless impact thoughts

[nmantas]

I have read so many threads about people that are cordless impact shopping. Many times the advice from professional wrenchers was something like this: “I use my midtorque or 3/8" 95% of the time”. While I feel this is a true statement and well-intended advice, I also think sometimes it is missing context for the recipient of the advice. Folks want a cordless impact for one or more of different reasons: power/portability/lack of air/speed/size&weight/etc.

I think DIY’ers would rate power much higher than a pro that already has access to shop air and an air impact in a drawer OR a buddy in the next stall that has a gun that has more balls that you could easily borrow for a few minutes for those 5% of situations where you need the power. When you do it as a profession, you use these tools all day long and weight and size might be more important but a DIY is working on stuff two days a month and is really not worried about the weight getting to them while they do the single job on a given weekend. The DIY also needs the power to take anything off because they might not have access to anything else and are reduced to laying on their back with a breaker bar that can only move a few degrees because their working on jackstands and not a lift. I would feel let down if I bought a midtorque and hit those 5% of situations where high torque was needed and was reduced to struggling instead of easily taking fasteners off.

I’m not shopping for an impact but I think this class of tool, which can be a major investment for many, should have some situational context for both the thread starter seeking advice and the kind folks giving it.

 

[Ign]

{snip}

I’m not shopping for an impact but I think this class of tool, which can be a major investment for many, should have some situational context for both the thread starter seeking advice and the kind folks giving it.

Not only that but I'll tell ya in this situation electric affords WAY more trigger control for both "bumping" that joint in a little more or not spinning a mile away from the work when backing out.

But here, you want Max Power (Great name! .... "Thanks I got it off a hair dryer") so if you intend to use a bj press, high torque all the way.

 

[Iowafox]

I have to agree with this. I am one that I got a Dewalt 1/2 brushless high torque impact first and that sucker is heavy but will break anything loose and is AMAZING. I just this week ordered a 3/8 Dewalt impact because I have ran into places size does matter and you want something smaller. I say go big first then grab the smaller impacts down the road.

 

[itwnexus]

Extentions will rob you of torque so you may need the high torque if you use long extentions. High torques will work better on large rusted nuts. Or you can get just the mid torque and a super long breaker bar and penetrating oil for the nuts the mid torque can't remove.

 

[Rarified27]

Max Power (Great name! .... "Thanks I got it off a hair dryer").

One of the shows more underrated quotes.

Back to the post...I bought a 1/2" mid torque first and will be getting a 3/8" stubby soon. As my official transition to cordless, the air tools are now "in case".


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[Wrench97]

I have the M18 Milwaukee 2767 hi torque, I use it mostly for field work where air is not available(or I'm too lazy to start the service truck air compressor) the torque output is adjustable and I rarely use it on hi. Sure it is heavier and larger then the mid torque but for what I use it for that is rarely an issue. I also carry the M12 Fuel 3/8 impact and the M12 Fuel 1/4" between the 3 of them I'm happy.

 

[Wamsutta]

My thoughts are that I wish I could get an impact wrench the weight of a mid-torque wrench that will loosen everything on my car. Not going to happen.

 

[CobraRed]

As long as you keep in mind it's not a linear relationship between the compact, mid torque and high torque when it comes to the power they actually make.

Compact: 250 ft-lbs

Mid torque: 397 ft-lbs

High Torque: 778 ft-lbs or about twice as much

That said I mainly use a mid torque for eveything, but it's not a replacement for a full size air so anything you feel you NEED a 2235TiMAX or Aircat 1150 or whatever, you need a high torque.

 

[finn]

I am a hobbiest , with access to air and a variety of air tools. Just bought an M18 2767 high torque, as rusty undercarriage fasteners are my biggest challenge with my current assortment of tools. The 2767 is too heavy and bulky for general, all day work, though.

Next in line is something compact.

Last on the list will be a mid torque.

The op is correct. A professional would probably have different priorities.

 

[FSrepair&fabrication]

The high torque is 6lbs plus the battery, an IR 2135 or CP is 4lbs. Plus the milwaukee/dewalt is longer. I think theyre a cheap way to get a decent powered impact if you dont have air, but if you have a half decent compressor, air is the way to go.

 

[pbon]

If the occasions when you need more are relatively rare, use a breaker bar to break free then impact the rest of the way.

If you are young and strong and don’t work in tight places, then buy the high torque and heft it around. I am older enough to appreciate the lighter tools. I do have them all, however.

 

[blarf]

As a DIYer with new enough cars: no, I don't want to wield a big *** impact. I've got the M12 fuel 3/8" compact and that does the vast majority of what I want without the extra size and weight. It can't do some stuff but that's generally split between rubber mounted or hard to reach (a.k.a. needs lots of extensions) stuff and a handful of things with a high torque spec (crank bolt, axle nuts). I just managed to snap an M8 bolt with it the other day. A mid-torque 1/2" is on my short list because I've gotta do the wheel bearings on the E46 (torque spec is 300 Nm).

One of the big things to remember is that extensions and swivels sap a ton of power. If you can get a smaller impact in without those it's easier to get away with the lower power impact. It also helps to live somewhere that stuff doesn't rust.

 

[Jersey Drew]

I have both and the “ big gun” was purchased first. I have found it to be overkill for most situations. Even when installing Lugnuts you can’t pull the trigger all the way because it’ll tighten too much even with two or three taps. I find the mid torque to be much more useful for all around usage. The only time the high torque saved my **** was when I was on the side of the road changing a tire and someone had cross threaded one of the Lugnuts on. I turned it to full power on reverse and “let her eat”. In less than five seconds I snapped off the stud. Changed out the wheel put 4 Lugnuts on and off they went. I then replaced the stud a few days later when the van wasn’t in use.

 

[jonshonda]

What you are experiencing is a classic case of what they call in statistics "the bell curve"(which is literally the shape of a bell on a graph). Don't get me wrong, I hate statistics, but in this case it helps you understand why so many suggest the mid torque. So what the bell curve tells you is that the majority of the work/things you do are in the largest portion of the bell shape (D,C,B in illustration, the work you would do with a mid torque).

The hi-torque would fall somewhere in the B-A range, and the low torque would fall somewhere in the F-D range. Which easily explains why so many suggest the mid-torque, as while is doesn't do everything perfectly, but does most things really well, and it will be the most practical tool for the majority of your application. So if the price you pay (weight, size, cost) for the extra(x)% of work that can be accomplished is worth it to the user, then by all means buy that tool. But for most it is not, to they pick the tool that best fits the majority of applications.

A-to-F-From-Whom-The-Bell-Curve-Tolls by Jon S, on Flickr

 

[joshmodelskidoo]

I got the dewalt 899 high torque last winter to replace my midtorque craftsman c3 i loved and wore out.what Batteries that were left were on there way out and it was getting sloppy from pounding on it all the time. Just picked up a dewalt 3/8s impact and I love that little thing. I pretty much use the 3/8s and if i need more i go to the high torque. If that doesn’t do it I break out the 3/4in air gun

 

[Formula]

I work in a dealer and have them all. I use the mid torque most of the time and break out the high torque a few times a week.

My DIY neighbor who lives across the street from me has a high torque. He was bragging to me how great it was and I agreed with him. A few weeks later he was doing some suspension work on his car and I heard him cussing and yelling. I guess he snapped a bunch of bolts off when he was tightening down some new parts.

 

[M635_Guy]

I have both and the “ big gun” was purchased first. I have found it to be overkill for most situations. Even when installing Lugnuts you can’t pull the trigger all the way because it’ll tighten too much even with two or three taps. I find the mid torque to be much more useful for all around usage. The only time the high torque saved my **** was when I was on the side of the road changing a tire and someone had cross threaded one of the Lugnuts on. I turned it to full power on reverse and “let her eat”. In less than five seconds I snapped off the stud. Changed out the wheel put 4 Lugnuts on and off they went. I then replaced the stud a few days later when the van wasn’t in use.

I kinda have all of them in the Milwaukee Fuel line (Stubby, Mid and High, and recently added the Gen2 Mid), and while my Stubby does of the work (probably 85%), it's mainly a weight thing. If I needed to get down to one, I could sell all of them and the Gen2 Mid could do everything I ask. I'm going to sell my 2767 because it's too big for a few things (brakes/etc.) and I'm yet to find a need for it - the Mid always comes through. I don't live in the Rust Belt, but even if I was I think I'd be fine with just the Gen2 Mid - it's small, really powerful and has great lights/modes.

If I was earning money with my tools, I'd probably keep all four - the Stubby to save my arms, both mids when the Stubby can't do it and to run concurrently (I find it really useful to have two running with different sockets) and the High for times when something is really stuck - but I'm just a doofus in my garage supporting the four family cars. I'm going to wind up keeping just the Stubby and the Mid Gen2.

Net: Most home-gamers could do terrific with just the Mid, especially the Gen2

The 3/8" vs. 1/2" debate baffles me a bit - I only want to find room for 1 set of impact sockets, and what I'm using an impact on is easily covered in my 1/2" set. I'm not putting a Mid (or just about any impact wrench - maybe not even my impact driver) on an 8MM fastener, and the additional mass of the 1/2" anvil and sockets should make the tool slightly more effective. I'd go with 3/8" if that's the sockets I already had, but not if I was starting from scratch.

 

[Wrench97]

I work in a dealer and have them all. I use the mid torque most of the time and break out the high torque a few times a week.

My DIY neighbor who lives across the street from me has a high torque. He was bragging to me how great it was and I agreed with him. A few weeks later he was doing some suspension work on his car and I heard him cussing and yelling. I guess he snapped a bunch of bolts off when he was tightening down some new parts.

Having tools is one thing, knowing how to use them can be elusive............

 

[p00p]

When you do it as a profession, you use these tools all day long and weight and size might be more important but a DIY is working on stuff two days a month and is really not worried about the weight getting to them while they do the single job on a given weekend. The DIY also needs the power to take anything off because they might not have access to anything else and are reduced to laying on their back with a breaker bar that can only move a few degrees because their working on jackstands and not a lift. I would feel let down if I bought a midtorque and hit those 5% of situations where high torque was needed and was reduced to struggling instead of easily taking fasteners off.

I’m not shopping for an impact but I think this class of tool, which can be a major investment for many, should have some situational context for both the thread starter seeking advice and the kind folks giving it.

Being on both sides; I have set out for criteria that seems to be working well for me.

Compact: Smaller it is, the easier it is for storage.
Reliable: If & when I reach for it, it better perform as expected & be able to work in the environment that it is meant for.
Longevity: It can be small & bust the biggest of all axle nuts, but if it takes a lot of resource to do it, why exist.


When it comes to cordless impacts, drivers, & ratchets I'll prioritize it to compact [small enough to take on the road in a carrying bag], longevity [3+ batteries to cut a 1" tree limb, garbage] , & reliable [DOA cordless tools are frustrating!] .
For pneumatic tools: reliable [it'll get ran over, just like the air hose will] , longevity [if the 30 gal tank runs dry to take off a wheel, nope not having it] , & compact [3/8 ratchet needs to fit up under the dash or else it's a wheel chock] .

I've used a vast of them all, & some that were very affordable did better than those that cost a newborn. However, the major problem I ran into with cordless was the series within the combo/brand. You'll get what you want with the impact, but then the reciprocating saw *****. Now you're buying another brand to make up for that other brand's deficiency. Before you know it, you have five different brands, five different types of batteries & chargers, & two new tool boxes to fit it all.
With pneumatic, you just change the inlet fitting to match to your air feed hose & you're in business. Downside though, you'll need a really long hose if you plan to take those tools on the road...

 

[Iron Beaver]

I have a Snap-on 1/2, an IR 3/4, an IR 1" and a Makita high-torque 1/2". They all have their use.

The 1/2" pneumatic gets most of the use. The 1/2" cordless is used for quick jobs that didn't really need an impact wrench to begin with, and jobs where no air is available. Once in a while I have a nut stubborn enough that the 3/4" is needed. I held out for years on not getting a cordless impact until the day I needed an impact wrench miles away from my air compressor.

 

[M635_Guy]

think DIY’ers would rate power much higher than a pro that already has access to shop air and an air impact in a drawer OR a buddy in the next stall that has a gun that has more balls that you could easily borrow for a few minutes for those 5% of situations where you need the power.

Sorry - my ramble was intended to speak to this. I think DIY'ers are mainly looking for "powerful enough" and "does the most things". That's why the Stubby and the Mid are so prevalent there. It's an incredibly powerful tool, but I wouldn't really recommend the 2767 to any homer vs. the Mid. I don't live in the Rust Belt, but I don't think that would change my opinion.

For a pro shop, I think multiple tools is less of an issue, and there are tons of pretty light and very powerful air tools.

 

[nmantas]

Sorry - my ramble was intended to speak to this. I think DIY'ers are mainly looking for "powerful enough" and "does the most things". That's why the Stubby and the Mid are so prevalent there. It's an incredibly powerful tool, but I wouldn't really recommend the 2767 to any homer vs. the Mid. I don't live in the Rust Belt, but I don't think that would change my opinion.

For a pro shop, I think multiple tools is less of an issue, and there are tons of pretty light and very powerful air tools.

I bet you would think differently by the great lakes climate (humidity) mixed with road salt. Where I live in Michigan most of the time a wheel won't come off without beating it off with a huge rubber mallet/or deadblow because a ring of white crusty salt/Al/Fe glue between the hub and center hole of the wheel. Get something for the entirety of the bell curve then, if you use it enough and have the funds, get something that is easier to use for most things like a 3/8"/compact/midtorque. The locked on fasteners are the ones that scream out......wish I had an impact. The lower torque applications are deemed not as important since you already have ratchets, breaker bars, and all the time in the world on a Saturday to get the job done.

I feel that if you have to get one you go big or go home and that other guns are a luxury that supplement the big boy. I have a high torque and a 3/8's.......use the 3/8s more but if I had to surrender one it would be the 3.8's.

 

[M635_Guy]

I bet you would think differently by the great lakes climate (humidity) mixed with road salt. Where I live in Michigan most of the time a wheel won't come off without beating it off with a huge rubber mallet/or deadblow because a ring of white crusty salt/Al/Fe glue between the hub and center hole of the wheel. Get something for the entirety of the bell curve then, if you use it enough and have the funds, get something that is easier to use for most things like a 3/8"/compact/midtorque. The locked on fasteners are the ones that scream out......wish I had an impact. The lower torque applications are deemed not as important since you already have ratchets, breaker bars, and all the time in the world on a Saturday to get the job done.

I feel that if you have to get one you go big or go home and that other guns are a luxury that supplement the big boy. I have a high torque and a 3/8's.......use the 3/8s more but if I had to surrender one it would be the 3.8's.

I dunno. The 2767 is so limited because of its size and I think the Mid is a pretty darn powerful tool. But all that's in context of a "One Tool" frame. If I lived up there I'd probably have both.

 

[plinker]

I have not run into too many instances of the 2767 being too bulky to fit recently, I have run into that in the past however. Then again, there are times where a stubby 1/2 air impact is either still too big or not enough, then it's long ratchet/breaker bar and/or heat.

It is fairly heavy for what it is I suppose, but not unmanageable. Could just be me being used to using large wrenches from truck/equipment work.

I bet you would think differently by the great lakes climate (humidity) mixed with road salt. Where I live in Michigan most of the time a wheel won't come off without beating it off with a huge rubber mallet/or deadblow because a ring of white crusty salt/Al/Fe glue between the hub and center hole of the wheel. Get something for the entirety of the bell curve then, if you use it enough and have the funds, get something that is easier to use for most things like a 3/8"/compact/midtorque. The locked on fasteners are the ones that scream out......wish I had an impact. The lower torque applications are deemed not as important since you already have ratchets, breaker bars, and all the time in the world on a Saturday to get the job done.

I feel that if you have to get one you go big or go home and that other guns are a luxury that supplement the big boy. I have a high torque and a 3/8's.......use the 3/8s more but if I had to surrender one it would be the 3.8's.

+1, same in this area.

I would venture that a 1/2 impact is more useful then a 3/8 in general, it all depends on what you are doing I suppose.

 

[BrandoJames]

A dissenting opinion: DIYers should buy a high torque impact gun first, since they're most likely to need an impact gun for lug nuts, mower blades, etc. These tend to be large fasteners that are difficult to deal with via common DIY hand tools.

Pros will always have a wider array of tools, including lighter, mid-range guns for repetitive tasks like removing normal size fasteners. A DIYer can use hand tools for those mid-size fasteners because they're not removing fasteners every day. For a pro, those repetitive tasks cost time/money, so they need to be done quickly. They also don't wan't to use a large heavy gun for these everyday tasks due to ergonomic reasons as well as clearance issues. For a pro, buying mid-range impact tools is smart & cost-effective.

I'm fortunate enough now to be a retired DoD employee with a comfortable pension. I can buy any impact gun I want, and that's probably true for many of the guys on this forum. But when I was young & struggling, there's no way I'd spend hundreds of dollars for a mid-range impact gun.

 

[finn]

What you are experiencing is a classic case of what they call in statistics "the bell curve"(which is literally the shape of a bell on a graph). Don't get me wrong, I hate statistics, but in this case it helps you understand why so many suggest the mid torque. So what the bell curve tells you is that the majority of the work/things you do are in the largest portion of the bell shape (D,C,B in illustration, the work you would do with a mid torque).

The hi-torque would fall somewhere in the B-A range, and the low torque would fall somewhere in the F-D range. Which easily explains why so many suggest the mid-torque, as while is doesn't do everything perfectly, but does most things really well, and it will be the most practical tool for the majority of your application. So if the price you pay (weight, size, cost) for the extra(x)% of work that can be accomplished is worth it to the user, then by all means buy that tool. But for most it is not, to they pick the tool that best fits the majority of applications.

A-to-F-From-Whom-The-Bell-Curve-Tolls by Jon S, on Flickr

It really depends on what your starting point is.

In my case, I already have a couple of air impacts that cover the mean, but nothing for the upper and lower quartile. The 2767 and a subcompact Dewalt or Milwaukee cover the tails of the distribution.

A mid torque would be the las acquisition, to finally replace the old air tools.

 

[itwnexus]

You'll need the high torque for Honda/Acura crankshaft bolts because mid torques can't break it free.

 

[Rarified27]

You'll need the high torque for Honda/Acura crankshaft bolts because mid torques can't break it free.

I had luck with a harmonic balancer (i think it's called) socket on my mid torque. The extra mass of the socket puts more energy directly into the bolt. My impact is 600ft lbs on high and got it with little effort.

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[M635_Guy]

A dissenting opinion: DIYers should buy a high torque impact gun first, since they're most likely to need an impact gun for lug nuts, mower blades, etc. These tend to be large fasteners that are difficult to deal with via common DIY hand tools.

With the exception of my mother's Toyota where some gorilla was apparently trying to prove a point, even my M12 1/2" Stubby has been entirely fine with every lug nut/etc. I've pointed it at.

It didn't love a couple caliper bolts that the Mid took care of, but there aren't a ton of examples where the Stubby has balked.

I think DIY'ers are less likely to be make good use of the power of the 2767, and have far fewer cases where that kind of power is needed. The weight isn't a bonus either. I also think there are few things a Mid won't solve for the vast majority of the DIY set, especially Milwaukee's new Gen2. And it's so easy to use.

Pros will always have a wider array of tools, including lighter, mid-range guns for repetitive tasks like removing normal size fasteners. A DIYer can use hand tools for those mid-size fasteners because they're not removing fasteners every day. For a pro, those repetitive tasks cost time/money, so they need to be done quickly. They also don't wan't to use a large heavy gun for these everyday tasks due to ergonomic reasons as well as clearance issues. For a pro, buying mid-range impact tools is smart & cost-effective.

I'm fortunate enough now to be a retired DoD employee with a comfortable pension. I can buy any impact gun I want, and that's probably true for many of the guys on this forum. But when I was young & struggling, there's no way I'd spend hundreds of dollars for a mid-range impact gun.

I agree pros will always have a wider array - they can do the math on whether a tool is helping them make money.

I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your point. I'm a relatively-serious DIY'er, and my Mid is capable of anything I've ever needed out of an impact or used one for (which has mainly been suspension/brakes/wheels/etc - nothing all that exotic). My 2767 is obviously powerful enough, but wouldn't fit in the space to do the work I needed for the brakes on my wife's Odyssey and my Mini (I didn't have an impact-rated u-joint extension at the time)

 

[finn]

With the exception of my mother's Toyota where some gorilla was apparently trying to prove a point, even my M12 1/2" Stubby has been entirely fine with every lug nut/etc. I've pointed it at.

It didn't love a couple caliper bolts that the Mid took care of, but there aren't a ton of examples where the Stubby has balked.

I think DIY'ers are less likely to be make good use of the power of the 2767, and have far fewer cases where that kind of power is needed. The weight isn't a bonus either. I also think there are few things a Mid won't solve for the vast majority of the DIY set, especially Milwaukee's new Gen2. And it's so easy to use.



I agree pros will always have a wider array - they can do the math on whether a tool is helping them make money.

I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your point. I'm a relatively-serious DIY'er, and my Mid is capable of anything I've ever needed out of an impact or used one for (which has mainly been suspension/brakes/wheels/etc - nothing all that exotic). My 2767 is obviously powerful enough, but wouldn't fit in the space to do the work I needed for the brakes on my wife's Odyssey and my Mini (I didn't have an impact-rated u-joint extension at the time)

Another guy who doesn’t have to deal with the effects of road salt, and only works on cars, not cars, trucks, tractors, and construction equipment.

I would agree if I worked on rust free cars only, but that’s not my world.

 

[javyLSU]

...I feel that if you have to get one you go big or go home and that other guns are a luxury that supplement the big boy. I have a high torque and a 3/8's.......use the 3/8s more but if I had to surrender one it would be the 3.8's.

This is exactly how I went about buying my impacts, and it has served me well. I started out with the 2767 Milwaukee high torque, and added the 2555 stubby, which then became my first-grab impact wrench. Since getting the stubby, I've only had to break out the high-torque twice. I eventually added a 3/8" DeWalt 12 volt impact wrench (DCF902) to the mix, and it's now become my "first-grab" impact wrench. It's significantly thinner and lighter than the stubby, the lighting and ergonomics are better, and it has handled everything I've needed to remove below 200 ft/lbs. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the smaller, lighter, impacts are luxuries, and that you should shop for the strongest impact wrench you might need first. Even though I've only had to use the high-torque twice since getting the stubby, those two times would have been very, very bad situations if I didn't have it on hand.

 

[M635_Guy]

Another guy who doesn’t have to deal with the effects of road salt, and only works on cars, not cars, trucks, tractors, and construction equipment.

I would agree if I worked on rust free cars only, but that’s not my world.

I'm speaking from the perspective of most of the DIY crowd only. Once you cross over into a farm or any professional application, you're generally going to see more than one option on the job, and the right one for the job will generally be applied.

As for the rust bit - (A) given that it's relatively recent that a 600 ft.lb. impact is a mid-size tool, I'm betting there's a lot of success at that power-level with rusty fasteners and (B) if it doesn't fit, it doesn't matter how powerful it is. I mean, yeah a wobble or a u-joint extension can probably make it work, but that's not ideal for a guy like me (and I think in the DIY world I'm closer to the top than the bottom of the spectrum). While it doesn't solve EVERYTHING, it works for the vast majority of people like me, including the ones in the rust belt. And if occasionally you run into that gorilla-lug-bolt that requires busting out the breaker bar and a can of spinach, I think that's a fair trade-off for the lighter/easier/more versatile Mid. That's just my $0.02.

 

[Earp69]

I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring here, I just switched back to Milwaukee last month. I was planning on getting the hi torque no matter what, but after playing with one and seeing how big and bulky they were I decided on the mid torque and I'm glad I did. For 99% of what I do the gen 3 mid torque has worked great and it's actually smaller than my original m18 non fuel 3/8 impact length wise but is about an inch taller. The majority of my work is on one ton trucks, jeep suspension etc.

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[Farmer888]

Haven't read all the replies but I started with the high torque, And it is a beast.. But I work on farm equipment and pickup trucks in the salt belt. Downside is it's heavy and big so doesn't fit everywhere. I think the mid torque especially the new gen would be a great fit for most people. I bought the stubby 2555 and it's quite powerful for it's size and compliments the high torque well, but If I didn't work on heavy equipment I think I'd be happier with the mid torque.

 

[dlwilson]

I have the Milwaukee stubby 3/8 and the big 1/2 (1400 ft/lbs loosening torque). I got the stubby first and use it for almost everything. It will even break free some lug nuts. Then I got the big guy for the big jobs -- lug nuts the stubby won't do, ball joint press, transmission jack. It's nice to have, but I was able to always find a way before I had it, like a breaker bar or an air impact.

For biggest impact (hah!) get the stubby.