Show your Indestro and Duro-Chrome tools

[gearhead1960]

Haha. I bet. Are the parts actual size? I kind of have a thing for lifesize outlines. I also have an M1 Garand around here somewhere. If I can just remember where I put the darn thing.

Nah, not actual size. Cool jeep

 

[JoCoSawdust]

This ingenious little rack was too interesting to pass up and turned out to be my only score of the weekend. No. 28 1/2 hex drive socket set missing three sockets.
Thanks once again to Lugz for the Sticky. It makes navigating this place so much easier.

 

[d42jeep]

Although I’m not that into hex drive stuff, that is one I hung onto. Clever packaging. Mine is slightly different.
-Don

 

[Debcrow]

Looking through some of my old stuff I haven't used in decade I found this Indestro 8099, 3/8 torque wrench, only 0-50 pound range. I don't know when or where I got it and am pretty sure I never used it. Just in with other older torque wrenches that I just can't seem to let go (as with most tools). Do not even know how old it is or where I got it.

I don't think I ever bought a Torque Wrench NEW in my life

 

[Outlawmws]

I have a 1/4" with the same style scale. Round finger hole instead of a handle

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ditto for a 3/4-incher I have from the Duro half of the facility.

 

[Outlawmws]

Yeah, Mines a Duro, now I think of it.

 

[bonneyman]

My little addition to the thread from a recent lot - a NOS Indestro Super 3/8"f to 1/2" m adaptor.

 

[d42jeep]

This Wartime Duro 1/4” drive set arrived in the mail today. All the D-I sockets are there along with the rare crossbar. The ratchets have gotten a little hard to find recently and the spinners have all self destructed. I received the rare 1945 canvas roll recently. I’m missing the G65 and G69 wrenches.
-Don

 

[Old Radar]

Estate sale find for $3.

Indestro 1/2" & 1/4" Hex set missing the screwdriver adapter bit, the 1/4" ell and 5 1/4" sockets.

1/2" Hex sockets include 15/16, 7/8, 3/4, 11/16, 5/8, 9/16, 1/2 and 7/16.
1/4" Hex sockets include 11/32 & 5/16. Missing 1/4, 3/8 & 7/16 Hex; 3/8 round knurled & 1/4 square.

The ratchet head has been pried open a bit and the ratchet gear no longer catches. Don't know if the ratchet failed and they pried it open to try and fix it or by prying it open they broke the ratchet. Forcing the halves closed has little/no effect on the ratcheting mechanism.

The 1/2" socket has been ground down to make it thinner, removing all the exterior identifying features, but he broaching is the same as the other sockets.

The 1958 and early '70 catalogs have this set in a flat "Wall Klip" case enabling it to be fastened to a wall. The 1935 catalog does not have a 1/2" & 1/4" set depicted but has my style of case without the attached 1/4" set. I theorize that sometime between the late 30s and mid-50s, Indestro added the 1/2" & 1/4" combination set that I have and by the mid-50s moved to the Wall Klip case and discontinued this one. Comments?

Note the two different styles and three different stamp sizes on the sockets.

 

[humber2]

The 1/4 set on its own dates from mid 30's as a Radio Technicians set.

Has been featured several times in this thread.

 

[d42jeep]

Here are my Duro and Indestro estate sale finds from yesterday. A 3211 Indestro 10” extension (41-B-309), a Duro circle DC 2013 DBE 9/16” x 5/8” wrench (41–W-601), a 9/16” D-I 1/2” drive socket (41-W-3009) and a 1/4” drive Duro fridge ratchet. The numbers in parentheses are Federal Stock Numbers.
-Don

 

[Old Radar]

The 1/4 set on its own dates from mid 30's as a Radio Technicians set.

Has been featured several times in this thread.

True. It may not be clear in the pictures, but this is a single set--the 1/4" set is an integral part of the 1/2" case.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

That's a handy set. I like the clip top.

 

[four.cycle]

I didn't take notes while skimming through an entire years's posts in this thread, so I'm winging it here:

The #1536 "Master" series (carbon steel) 1/2" drive sets are ubiquitous. I see at least 3 or 4 more listed on Ebay every month, which (for a set that's almost 90 years old) seems a bit surprising.
The one single feature of the #1536 that makes it easily identifiable is the inclusion of the "Heavy Ratchet" which is not marked with a part number and usually not even Indestro's name. I've yet to see one with a patent number, either. It is easily distinguishable from the smaller, lightweight model 655 ratchet, which is often marked with the patent number (1798481).
I have never seen a graphic (either in a catalog or advertisement) which showed that "Heavy Ratchet" in any set other than the model 1536.

The one thing I haven't really pinned down yet is "Who did Indestro make the set for which came in the unmarked green box with the small round decal inside the lid?"

From the photos posted back several pages, it would appear that it was Western Auto. The photos of the set with the original receipt kind of clinches it for me. I own one of those sets, and I had previously thought it was made for Sears, but Western Auto seems a more logical answer.

 

[four.cycle]

Private Lugnutz:

That model 19 set is fabulous. Believe it or not, that is one that I do not own.
Your assessment of the design of the holder is spot-on; bordering on Ars Gratia Artis.
I've been tempted by a few on Ebay, but backed off when bidding wars got into the realm of crazy.

Your oddball end-hinged "coffin shaped" set (to use your term) is indeed Indestro, and is most certainly in the original box.
It's easily confused with one made by New Britain. I own copies of both.
Usually the Indestro set has their name stamped on the back side of the "ell" handle.





Sorry for driving you crazy with the emails, but I simply haven't had time to be here and engage in discussion threads. It took no less than an entire year to get my mother and sister moved out of their houses. Five months later they are still not yet unpacked.

 

[four.cycle]

gearhead1960:
Regarding your "open box end wrenches" (as they are called in the catalog):
Those were stamped out by the millions over the course of several decades, with little (or no) change in design.
They're shown in a 1937 Indestro catalog, and they were still appearing in the
1959 catalog. Unfortunately the next catalog I have after 1959 is the 1972 catalog (No. 55), but I'd guess they were still stamping them out well into the 1960s.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Private Lugnutz:
Sorry for driving you crazy with the emails, but I simply haven't had time to be here and engage in discussion threads.

No problem, 4.c. Sorry for ignoring your emails, but too many channels (text, email, forums, etc) tends to easily discombobulate me, and my preferred tools discussion medium is right here where I can keep everything organized as much as possible in one place.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I snagged this combination hinge handle extension at the flea on Thursday.

 

[Shelbylex]

Nice find, Lugz! Never saw anything like this. I guess now you will need to find a bar which goes through this hole : )

 

[d42jeep]

Nice find, Lugz! Never saw anything like this. I guess now you will need to find a bar which goes through this hole : )

Something like this. The hinge handle in this 3/8” drive D-I set is the same design.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice find, Lugz! Never saw anything like this. I guess now you will need to find a bar which goes through this hole : )

Thanks, Shelby. I want to say the male extension stud was unique to Duro, but I think there were a couple mfgr's using this design very early, and I'd need another cup or two of coffee to come up with the names. As for the tommy bar, I always pick them up whenever I see them in the wild, because they are almost always missing from sets or individual hinge handles. Here are some from my orphan stash, including one that fits the Duro 656DK.

 

[Shelbylex]

Nice! It’s interesting - either I never paid enough attention, or they did not show up on the sales I attended - I do not remember ever seeing those bars anywhere except for GJ. Same as Ell bars ... (got the first Craftsman Ell bar in 3 years couple of weeks ago and only because I learned about them here...)

... memorizing one more thing to look for on yard sales : )

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It’s interesting - either I never paid enough attention, or they did not show up on the sales I attended - I do not remember ever seeing those bars anywhere except for GJ.

If you mean tommy bars (British, an affectation I am fond of), cross bars (as most mfgrs called them in literature) or pin handles (as Plomb called them), probably because they are almost always missing and, because most contemporary handles don't have the feature, it's usually misidentified as a hanging hole. My hunch is that only when guys started collecting tools seriously as collectibles and more attention was paid to catalogs and contents lists that the cross bar became more visible.

 

[Shelbylex]

I actually never thought much about the cross drilled holes - always thought it was some part of design where one needs to make sure that the tool does not get dropped (like putting a rope through the hole and then having it also loop slightly above the wrist - this way if one worked planes, rocket silos, high altitude construction, etc... there would be an extra safety...

Now an interesting question on top: T-handles and breaker bars could have done what Ell bars could do and were more flexible for other tasks. Did the Ell bars disappear because breaker bars became better quality which made T-bars and Ell bars an unnecessary addition to socket sets?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Now an interesting question on top:...

The evolution of fixed and detachable socket drive tools, their obsolescence, and their survival, is a subject I am keenly interested in, and one that has come up a few times before, specifically involving L-handles (or offset handles), T-handles, sliding T-handles, and flex head or hinge handles (colloquially, "breaker bars"). I can't find the best discussion I am thinking of, but here is one, and here is another. We also have a very good L/Ell-handle thread left up on the General Discussion board, which I plan to ask NUTTSGT to move down here, and I will also add a link to the Sticky Index for it, here.

Lastly, since we're on the Duro-Indestro thread, I will point out that they were one of two mfgrs (the other being Hinsdale) making convertible L-T handles, by sliding a sheath up over the short L-leg to make it into a T. I have a few, shown on this thread somewhere, and there are others shown here as well.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Lugz

I think I need to get these tools a try. I have 1/4, two 1/2 (both craftsman but different priods) and 3/4PLVMB T-handles and never used them. I can see how they could have been very useful at least couple of times.
...Just need to find somebody with a press to fix the 3/4" PLVMB - somebody went Gorilla on it probably with a cheater pipe. I will eventually get to this set - just brought it home but it will need a lot of cleaning for the sockets (will also need to check which ones are missing...)
...Sorry to post non Duro or Indestro set here...

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Wow that sliding t is bent! L handles are still available new just not something in demand.

 

[Shelbylex]

Once I derust the only one I have I will try to see if I can use it. I assume that it will have to be a very specific situation to use it over breaker bar (or as you call them hinge handles). Likely a very rusty /significantly stuck fastener

 

[d42jeep]

The advantage of Ell handles is that there are no moving parts to damage. Here are Indestro and Duro versions. The Armstrong is rare but not as rare as a Plomb version.
-Don

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Don. These look like 3/8 and 1/2 drive (though it's hard to guess).
Did they ever make them in 1/4 drive? (or any other drives which are not used anymore?)

... To make sure that I do not keep discussion too far away from Duro and Indestro, I will post one of my incomplete sets which I got

 

[gearhead1960]

Thanks for the info 4c!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...(or as you call them hinge handles).

I use "Hinge Handle" or "Flex Handle" interchangeably because they are the most common period-correct terms. And it's not an affectation so much as a byproduct of reading a lot of old catalogs and trade mags. "Hinge Handle" was used by Bonney and Plomb. Blackhawk used a variation ("Hinged Offset Handle"). "Flex Handle" was used by Cornwell, New Britain, and Williams. Sears, Roebuck & Co (Craftsman) used a variation of that ("Flex T Handle"), as did Herbrand ("Flexible Offset Handle") and SK ("Flex Head Handle"). There were some notably unique oddballs: Duro preferred "Swing Head Handle", Snap-on liked "Nut Spinner Handle", and Thorsen got cute with "Linkjoint Handle."

Not to put too fine a point on this, but the term "Breaker Bar" wasn't even used colloquially until the late 1960's as far as I can tell, and the first time I can find it turning up as a technical term in any automotive technical literature is 1971 and that was not a catalog.

The most modern catalogs I have for the above mfgr's are in the late 50's and I even have a 1966 Herbrand for some reason and none of them include the term "Breaker Bar." Consequently, I am not sure when the term was adopted by industry.

I think we could consider Snap-on a pretty good yardstick of terminology evolution, and we happen to have an excellent resource of Snap-on catalogs at collectingsnapon.com. The last time Snap-on referred to this tool as a "Nut Spinner" in a catalog was 1973. The first time Snap-on referred to it as a "Breaker Bar" in a catalog was 1975.

Besides the historically accurate significance, I will also admit to cantankerously considering "Breaker Bar" a rather short-sighted, misleading term. Are they only used to break loose stuck nuts and bolts? Are they never used to turn off non-rusty, well-maintained nuts and bolts that have been tightened to their correct torque reading? Are they never used to turn nuts and bolts on?

 

[four.cycle]

Did they ever make them in 1/4 drive?

I do not recall ever having seen a 1/4" drive "ELL" handle in any Duro-Chrome or Indestro catalogs.
For that matter, I cannot recall ever having seen a 3/8" drive "ELL" handle in any Duro-Chrome or Indestro catalog. I have to defer to d42jeep on that one in regard to the Duro-Chrome line, because he's more familiar with it than I am.

I am finding them in the 1948 Indestro catalog No. 16, but only in 1/2" drive, and only in the "Select" section.
Curiously, both the 1/2' drive "ELL" handles and the "LT" handle are marked as "discontinued" in the 1948 catalog No. 16, but the 646 "LT" handle makes an appearance in the 1959 catalog No. 22.
(Purely wild speculation and conjecture on my part, but my guess is either (a) customer demand or (b) leftover inventory they were still trying to unload. I am leaning toward the latter being the case.)

As to the "swing head handles" (as they are referred to in the Indestro catalog)(aka "breakers"):
I seem to recall a previous discussion somewhere about this. Indestro made the 1/2" drive models available with or without the squared end (with detent ball) at the tail end of the handle - at least in the 1/2" drive.
(I'd have to go dig through a pile of catalogs to determine whether that was the case with 3/8" drive.)
I know for certain that I own specimens of the 1/4" drive 4850 Duro-Chrome swing-head handle withOUT the square end (early production, black finish) and the Indestro 1/4" drive 2850 swing head handle with AND without the square end (early production, black finish), as well as an assortment of later (plated and polished AND cad plated) Indestro 1/4" drive 2850 swing head handles withOUT the square end, but all that stuff is in complete disarray here in this mess.
I can't speculate on any of the 3/8" drive swing head handles other than to say that I do not believe I own any other than the later production plated and polished 2781, which had a round knurled handle with a rounded end.

While the holes at the tail ends of the handles were originally intended to be used with the cross bar (in all drive sizes), Indestro (and Duro Chrome) continued to punch those holes in them right up to the end, even though the cross bars had been discontinued decades prior.
As suggested above, it provided a means to hang them from the display boards, which is what I thought the holes were for until I joined here.

If there were a "Holy Grail" of "ELL" handles, I would submit that it might be the Indestro 3207 1/2" drive "Offset Handle" with the fancy knurled handle.
I have yet to see one anywhere other than in the 1935 catalog.

Shelby, your black-box set above looks like a model 1536. I posted about that set on the previous page.







(* sorry about the crappy images. the "Indestro Catalog Thread" is HERE: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344222 *)

 

[d42jeep]

All of the Ell handles I posted were 1/2” drive. I’ve never seen a 1/4” drive version. I’ve run across quite a few Craftsman 1/2” and 3/8” drive Ells which I immediately list on eBay as they seem to be in demand, possibly due to their relative scarcity.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

Lugz, I grew up calling them breaker bars as that was what my dad called them It was a breaker bar as that prevented breaking a relatively expensive ratchet breaking stuck bolts loose. They also generally had longer handles. (1/2" drive being the "standard" for most work back then...)

Dad was in the Navy as a Prop plane mechanic during Korea to place a time frame on it.

 

[Shelbylex]

Thank you, Lugz, Four.Cycle and D42jeep

I wonder if additional benefit of continuing the holes at the end of the bar might have a benefit of saving some material (which probably accumulates when you are producing mass quantities). The negative would be the need of QA when they are covered with chrome).

I have an interesting but provocative question:
how did Indestro compared to Snap On side by side (quality, durability, precision)
Lets put aside warranties, truck service, following, bragging right for the name, etc.
You have side by side Indestro and Snap On : unmarked, new, same price.
What is your opinion about
1. Sockets
2. Ratchets
3. Wrenches
Ideally it would be interesting to hear from people who used both.

 

[d42jeep]

Thank you, Lugz, Four.Cycle and D42jeep

I wonder if additional benefit of continuing the holes at the end of the bar might have a benefit of saving some material (which probably accumulates when you are producing mass quantities). The negative would be the need of QA when they are covered with chrome).

I have an interesting but provocative question:
how did Indestro compared to Snap On side by side (quality, durability, precision)
Lets put aside warranties, truck service, following, bragging right for the name, etc.
You have side by side Indestro and Snap On : unmarked, new, same price.
What is your opinion about
1. Sockets
2. Ratchets
3. Wrenches
Ideally it would be interesting to hear from people who used both.

You would probably have to specify a time frame. Towards the end of their existence, Duro-Indestro quality went rapidly downhill. Four_cycle actually ordered and sold Indestro products at his family’s business so he would probably have the best perspective. During WW2 and for sometime thereafter Duro-Chrome was right up there with Snap-On quality in my opinion.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ I would put Indestro's products from the period between 1960 and 1980 up against any Snap-on any day of the week and twice on Sundays. No question.

There are all kinds of articles on Wikipedia about "Confirmational Bias" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias) and other traits we have as humans that cause us to convince ourselves that we made the right purchasing choices. Nobody wants to believe they made a mistake, or paid too much, or bought an inferior product.

Ergo: because you drive a Pontiac, Pontiac is the best car that Detroit ever created. Same with Snap-on tools, or Wonder Bread, or Kellogg's Corn Flakes. We ALL do it - don't ******** yourself.

The reason I put that time frame up there is twofold: I don't USE any of my vintage stuff - it's all "collector" stuff. We started selling Indestro in 1970, and we instructed our employees to replace ANY Indestro item a customer returned - no questions asked. Rarely did we see anything that was more than a few years old, but that was primarily because Indestro had poor market penetration here in the Pacific Northwest.
I am therefore not really qualified to speak to Indestro's product quality in actual use on the early stuff, although the early stuff that I do own most certainly appears to be top-shelf product. (And I own a LOT of it.)

In the late 1970s, with the flood of Asian imports hitting the American market, and consumers demanding "cheaper cheaper cheaper", Indestro got into financial problems and order fill rates dropped precipitously. The product was still top notch, but they couldn't fill orders.
In the early 1980's my brother-in-law pulled the plug and switched everything all over to Thorsen. (Thorsen went totally to **** right after that with their "TAT" line of imported product.)

Fortunately I wasn't selling Indestro when the "Duro-Indestro" branded product started going downhill. I do own some "Duro-Indestro" (late production) product, and it's premium stuff, but I've seen examples that make me cringe:

Here's a late production "Duro Indestro" 41213 12mm x 13mm open-end and my 1970 41213 "Indestro" (which turned a LOT of nuts and bolts in the last 50 years) side by side:





In fairness, not all of the "Duro-Indestro" product appears to be that crappy. If you peruse through this thread, you'll find photos of late-production "Duro-Indestro" sockets and ratchets I own which are the same top-shelf kind of product as the earlier production stuff.

Again, "best" is all subjective and is too often more a matter of personal opinion than reality. Most of the major players in the U.S. tool business in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s were cranking out top-notch stuff: S-K, Armstrong, Duro-Chrome, Indestro, Williams, Blackhawk, Proto, and Snap-On. Certainly there are some items the characteristics of which might feel better in hand - just as it is with women - but they all get the job done.

 

[Provincial]

One should also consider that D-I produced products for "house brand" merchandisers. I know that they made a set of combination wrenches I bought from the local True Value hardware store (locally owned, but supplied through the Cotter & Company system) in 1965 that have no branding, but are obviously the same as Indestro Select Steel models. They have held up very well, probably because the handles are not as long as some of their competitors. The only casualty in the set is the 1/2", which I ground into a tappet wrench in an emergency.