Problem with Armstrong Eliminator

[MC1983]

Got this set at a pawnshop the other day and when I was trying to use the ratchet, the pawl would not stay engaged to the gear when I go to ratchet the socket. There is a lot of forward to back play in the lever and the T8 screw that holds the lever into the pawl is stripped. I assume someone has messed with it before. The lever never really stays on or off. It is sort of loose and stays between on and off when you try and ratchet the socket. If I keep pressure on the lever, it feels like a ratchet should. I thought these things are just like normal ratchets when you use the adapter. Does anyone have any idea what could be going on? Here are a couple of pictures to show the condition of the ratchet, pawl, and adapter gear. I can provide more pictures if they are needed.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_HGcHrvfhMX45nvDw5h9Wq_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-tGNHNtGsI/AAAAAAAAARs/zPOk9RmQZsk/s800/IMG_3197.JPG" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AMu3Kj9V73acPC6PQoRbfa_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-tGIJrPxNI/AAAAAAAAARo/bPlHNHDkRkg/s800/IMG_3196.JPG" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kozT6NjSmfxSpPOQ9idiIK_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-tGF7yf0XI/AAAAAAAAARk/fgKxfgFVgio/s800/IMG_3195.JPG" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/z-fyg4sbE0doy38ACEPqVK_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-tGO9aEiVI/AAAAAAAAARw/JxHrTh71O-o/s800/IMG_3198.JPG" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/AgRTb6P16dWyCw0yTgvWmq_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-tGQ5VyglI/AAAAAAAAAR0/ofA9WQ3PqUM/s800/IMG_3199.JPG" /></a>

 

[reptilezs]

sounds like missing spring or ball bearing

 

[Teken]

This is what the adapter should look like once it is mated to the ratchet housing. You will notice that it sits flush with the lower body of the housing.

As you can see from the top there should be a raised portion of the adater once it is fully seated to the ratchet housing.

When you turn the selector lever does it engage left to right with out slop?

 

[MC1983]

Thanks for the help Teken. When the adapter is mated, it looks exactly like your pictures. Mine does have a little play when it is mated though. The pawl never really engages when I move the lever left to right, so there is a lot of slop. It doesn't "click" in like a normal ratchet does. It sort of just meshes with the gear, but once I go in the opposite direction, the lever just pops out in between on and off and disengages the pawl from the gear. Is the set screw the only thing that keeps tension on the pawl/gear when you ratchet the handle?

Is there any play in your pawl/lever? Mine has some front to back play in the pawl. For instance, if I take just the handle and shake it, I hear noise from the play.

 

[Teken]

Thanks for the help Teken. When the adapter is mated, it looks exactly like your pictures. Mine does have a little play when it is mated though. The pawl never really engages when I move the lever left to right, so there is a lot of slop. It doesn't "click" in like a normal ratchet does. It sort of just meshes with the gear, but once I go in the opposite direction, the lever just pops out in between on and off and disengages the pawl from the gear. Is the set screw the only thing that keeps tension on the pawl/gear when you ratchet the handle?

Is there any play in your pawl/lever? Mine has some front to back play in the pawl. For instance, if I take just the handle and shake it, I hear noise from the play.

No, there is no play or rattle what so ever from any of the five that I have. Even the old one I have which has seen a lot of hours has no play / slop / rattle when using the adapters.

Assuming you can remove the threaded screw, try to tighten it down first. See what happens to the pawl engagement . . .

 

[BWright]

Sounds like a problem with the spring that holds the pawl teeth in contact with the gear.

 

[MC1983]

Yea, mine definitely has front to back play in the pawl and the gear. I was thinking it has something to do with the mechanism that keeps the tension on the pawl when it engages the gear. What is the best way to go about fixing this? How does Danaher deal with the eliminator series since they have discontinued it. Do they have any type of rebuild kit for this ratchet?

 

[Teken]

Yea, mine definitely has front to back play in the pawl and the gear. I was thinking it has something to do with the mechanism that keeps the tension on the pawl when it engages the gear. What is the best way to go about fixing this? How does Danaher deal with the eliminator series since they have discontinued it. Do they have any type of rebuild kit for this ratchet?

With out seeing and holding it in my hand its hard to say to be honest. As the other member stated, there is a retaining friction spring clip in the body of the ratchet housing.

You should notice that this *clip* does not sit / wrap around the ratchet housing flush, but actually sticks out on two sides a little bit like its too wide.

This is the retaining clips job . . . Also, when you first insert the 3/8" adapter plug the whole thing should pretty much be flush all around it, there is little to no space between the housing and the inserted adapter plug.

If you look at my photo again you will notice almost no gap, just enough so the adapter can turn in the housing.

If there is play, then maybe that adapter plug is not quite machined right and too small . . . I dunno . . .

Plug it in and let us see . . .

 

[MC1983]

More pictures. The T8 screw is stripped and I cant get a hex or to fit so I will try and cut a groove with a dremel tomorrow so I can use a flathead screwdriver to remove the screw.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NYPZ7zSE0yVmfVpWobhI26_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-uCoK9Zy5I/AAAAAAAAASo/v_WNoE8VlXc/s800/DSC_3404.JPG" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-rlBxoCTWjbWAr98AxgcyK_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-uCr51Pj-I/AAAAAAAAASs/HAsa2zZ7Q3M/s800/DSC_3411.JPG" /></a>
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9gxlfjCBztHAA9VpC-zL6a_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-uCuBZX9mI/AAAAAAAAASw/qQ03WEhPb6I/s800/DSC_3412.JPG" /></a>

 

[Teken]

It's not even touching the pawl! In that picture is the selector all the way to one side, or simply in the middle, or you don't know?

 

[MC1983]

sorry, its in the middle in that picture. I will get another one with it on one side.

 

[Teken]

sorry, its in the middle in that picture. I will get another one with it on one side.

OK, because that wasn't very good if it was to one side! Also, when you insert the other sockets is there the same amount of play from front to back?

 

[MC1983]

Yea, they all have the same amount of play. I just use the adapter for the pictures since it has the most contrast and is easier to show in photos. Like I mentioned before though, the lever moves very freely. I can place it on one side, but as soon as I go to ratchet it, the lever gets moved over to the middle and the pawl no longer contacts the gear. Here is the new picture

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PH2BSsp4hkqPZ2lHzZbD1a_dcUmG5KSpcSPlU_GDsKk?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_uzc6PkbBIR0/S-uGpBTNnzI/AAAAAAAAATk/0JYIAWX37Ao/s800/DSC_3413.JPG" /></a>

 

[Teken]

You know what . . . I apologize, there is in fact a ball bearing and a small spring in the shaft of the ratchet!

reptilezs, was correct!

 

[MC1983]

I thought thats what BWright was referring to, not the clip in the body. I thought there was some sort of mechanism that kept the tension on the pawl. Hopefully I can get the setscrew off tomorrow. I will call Danaher tomorrow and maybe they can get me a new ball/spring. I just hope I don't have to go through all kinds of trouble getting it. Danaher wants everything done through Fastenal and their solution is to just exchange for new. Wonder what they will say about this since it is a discontinued product without a newer model.

 

[Teken]

I don't see the spring and ball bearing being a problem to be sourced from the vendor. I should have taken the thing apart from the beginning to start but was doing three other things and didn't even think, just looked at it . . .

My bad . . .

When you get it apart be careful as the bearing will shoot straight out once you try to pull out the pawl!

If everything is there (spring & ball bearing) I would stretch out the spring to see if it makes a difference in the engagement and slop.

I found that to be a problem on one ratchet from another maker . . .

 

[MC1983]

No problem, I really appreciate all your help. At least we know if there is another member that has this problem one day. I just hope the ball bearing and spring is nothing specific for this model and is just a generic part from any of their 3/8" ratchets. Thanks again.

 

[reptilezs]

could probably use the ball and spring from a cman ratchet.

 

[MC1983]

Yea, actually I just got it apart and it was missing the ball and spring. I have a feeling someone tried to do it before and the ball and spring shot out and got lost. So I took apart a cman ratchet to see if the ball and spring are generic in all Danaher 3/8" ratchets and used the ball and spring from there and put it in the Armstrong. The ratchet now works the way it is suppose to. Does anyone know if they are the same pieces or is there and small difference (spring longer, etc)? If they works, I will go buy a new set screw from Fastenal and go to sears for a ratchet rebuild kit. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[MC1983]

Just a quick update. Ratchet seems to be working just fine with the CMAN spring and ball. Called Danaher and they mentioned they don't support any parts for the Eliminator series anymore. The tech had gone home for the day and the customer service rep did not know if any of the parts are generic and could come off any other ratchet. I will give them a call tomorrow morning to verify.

I did ask what would happen if it anything breaks down the road, and they basically said the distributor would probably just swap the ratchet out for a regular ratchet and the eliminator sockets would basically be useless.

 

[Teken]

The only part you need to worry about is the pawl, and the adapter plug . . . That is why I have a few extra's just in case . . . As far as I can tell the pawl is standard issue, along with the spring and ball bearing. The adapter plug is the one thing that you need a extra, just in case its lost!