If nothing else, it may convince them that 'muricans can have OCD too.
Tools of Japan
- Thread starter Frankstools
- Start date
If nothing else, it may convince them that 'muricans can have OCD too.
macgee
Well-known member
Personally I've never attempted to use the #1-#3 combo tip so I can't tell you if its brilliant or not but appears to be a bit gimmicky and I just instead have used a dedicated Vessel #1 or a #3 tip in the ball grip. I can say that the #2 has a ton of good bite, works well and long lasting/low wear. I agree what you said about that #1 access being in tight spots.
I could see it maybe being useful for an emergency tool kit or for a minimal tool bag.
For $7 though, it's cheap to try out a Vessel driver, having the ball grip driver is great deal whether you use it for the #2, hollow ground slotted tips or to use it with your other hex bits.
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measuredtwice
Well-known member
The combination 1/3 is available with Vessel branding as well as Craftsman.
www.vessel.co.jp
株式会社ベッセル｜VESSEL こたえる かなえる
ドライバー、ビット・ソケット、エアーツールなどの締めつけ工具から、工場内での静電気対策品まで幅広い商品群情報を満載
FuzzyTiger
Well-known member
And we have the answer from Nepros:
While they didn't completely answer my question, it does provide a little more information.
I've looked at lots of pictures of the Nepros ratchets from the regular ones all the way up to their custom wood handled ones. Some have it rough, others have it fully polished, and others have it only partially polished as seen here:
Two ratchets in particular I think hint as to the reason why: pizza's blue IP ratchet which clearly has tooling marks in that area, and the partially polished one linked above.
I think it comes down to the switch. When the ratchets are finished, they get polished with the barrel polishing process and then they QC the ratchets. Ratchet bodies that are too rough such that it would interfere with the switch will get sent off to the machine shop for a pass with a mill. Ratchet bodies that won't interfere with the switch will be accepted and sent off.
That's my guess at least.
I'm no expert on Nepros but from what I have noticed, it seems to me that older production ones were rougher & newer production ones have better polishing or should I say some or better finishing before polishing in that area. The rough texture looks like how it pretty much comes out of sand casting or whatever & untouched or very little finishing if at all. As if they are improving their finishing process.
I have no idea if this is actually true but is what I suspected. Knowing that their demand is high a most are made in batches, when I ordered mine 1/4" & 3/8" I decided to order them together which was earlier this year hoping they would "match". Not sure if what I suspected was right or I just got lucky but both of mine have decent polishing in that area. Can anyone confirm who has bought any ratchets this year with rough finishes in that area?
Sounds to me like they are tumbling to get their desired finish before plating as most ratchets, wrenches, etc are made this way (yeah, I watch How It's Made, lol). There are 2 main types of tumblers, vibratory & rotary. Since they stated barrel polishing it sounds to me like they are using rotary tumblers. I have no experience with rotary tumblers but I do have vibratory tumblers (not huge industrial ones though). Perhaps they changed their tumbling media to get in & better polish that area or they are using multiple tumbling stages or are further finishing by hand than previous production runs?
That's my guess.
Got these in April of this year.
Damn, wish I had known about the Craftsman ones & how cheap they are compared to the Vessel ones. I haven't paid attention to anything Craftsman in a long time. I think I paid double the price for mine. No matter though, still very happy with these Vessels & wouldn't hesitate to buy them again for the price I paid.
Does this mean anything special or do they all have it? I hope they all have it otherwise these might turn into drawer queens & I'd have to buy another pair.
FuzzyTiger
Well-known member
It doesn't seem to be a time thing. You can find ratchets from years ago which are fully finished in that area. You can even find examples of their Urushi ratchets with that section unpolished.I'm no expert on Nepros but from what I have noticed, it seems to me that older production ones were rougher & newer production ones have better polishing or should I say some or better finishing before polishing in that area. The rough texture looks like how it pretty much comes out of sand casting or whatever & untouched or very little finishing if at all. As if they are improving their finishing process.
I have no idea if this is actually true but is what I suspected. Knowing that their demand is high a most are made in batches, when I ordered mine 1/4" & 3/8" I decided to order them together which was earlier this year hoping they would "match". Not sure if what I suspected was right or I just got lucky but both of mine have decent polishing in that area. Can anyone confirm who has bought any ratchets this year with rough finishes in that area?
Sounds to me like they are tumbling to get their desired finish before plating as most ratchets, wrenches, etc are made this way (yeah, I watch How It's Made, lol). There are 2 main types of tumblers, vibratory & rotary. Since they stated barrel polishing it sounds to me like they are using rotary tumblers. I have no experience with rotary tumblers but I do have vibratory tumblers (not huge industrial ones though). Perhaps they changed their tumbling media to get in & better polish that area or they are using multiple tumbling stages or are further finishing by hand than previous production runs?
That's my guess.
Got these in April of this year.
The amount of finishing in that section also seems to vary on the ones that do have it finished plus pizza's ratchet clearly shows tooling marks that couldn't be from the rotary or tumble polishing process. So some ratchets are getting a single process polishing and others are getting a two process polishing. Noting the limitations of their polishing process as they describe it, I'm sticking with my conclusion that they probably go back and polish that section on ratchets that have clearance issues with the switches. Also note that even the ones that do get it polished - the emphasis seems to be to polish the area under the swing arc of the switch.
Regardless of the actual reason - I actually kind of like the rough finish in that section. It stands out from the rest of the otherwise perfectly smooth ratchet.
measuredtwice
Well-known member
Does this mean anything special or do they all have it? I hope they all have it otherwise these might turn into drawer queens & I'd have to buy another pair.
From the catalog:
“PROKON” is a series of tools manufactured
with a professional spirit for professionals.
This solves various kinds of problems in
construction, electric, and utility works.
"PROKON" is all that craftspeople could ask"
It's possible that I am victim of consuming false information but I had read that they were previously metal and switched to plastic. I read it in several places but the easiest to remember and find was Amazon.
measuredtwice
Well-known member
I did some searches and this fellow claims the material changed but it is not plastic. It seems that there is a lot of conflicting information on the net. Sorry!
On Koken round head ratchets is the red part plastic? I vaguely remember reading that the Koken round head ratchets had a red plastic part and black metal part. I have Koken ratchets but not the round head.
On Koken round head ratchets is the red part plastic? I vaguely remember reading that the Koken round head ratchets had a red plastic part and black metal part. I have Koken ratchets but not the round head.
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Jeff
Well-known member
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I did a bit too. Definitely some conflicting views on this.
Dave455
Well-known member
Yes, it is, although it doesn’t detract from the tool at all. My roto head ratchet is shown. The ratcheting part is the same as the round head.
The black part, which is the bulk of the “switch” is black steel. The red plastic part is really only an indicator.
Overall, this is a very high quality tool, and quite substantial. The second picture shows my roto head compared to the regular. If I’m not doing automotive work I often carry this as my only ratchet. One of KoKen’s best in my opinion.
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measuredtwice
Well-known member
Thank you for the info, guys.
For others that haven't followed the other topics I want to point out that I was just identifying plastic components. Not criticizing the ratchets although some of the reviews that I quoted are critical.
Dave455, Iirc you have the knurled grip on the swivel head. Have you had opportunity to try the soft handle? I have used the polished and knurled handles on other Koken ratchets but haven't seen the soft handle. I tend to prefer screwdriver handles on swivel heads but I never see the soft handles shown on GJ. Wish I could try before I buy.
For others that haven't followed the other topics I want to point out that I was just identifying plastic components. Not criticizing the ratchets although some of the reviews that I quoted are critical.
Dave455, Iirc you have the knurled grip on the swivel head. Have you had opportunity to try the soft handle? I have used the polished and knurled handles on other Koken ratchets but haven't seen the soft handle. I tend to prefer screwdriver handles on swivel heads but I never see the soft handles shown on GJ. Wish I could try before I buy.
Qualitytools
Well-known member
^ Does the KOKEN swivel ratchet come with a quick release?
Dave455
Well-known member
Feel free to be critical. Tool manufacturers wouldn’t ever make improvements if we didn’t!
In practice, of all the ratchets I own, I don’t really think I can find anything to criticise on this one. It really is a favourite and I use it a lot.
On most of my KoKen I went for the smooth steel handles. I generally detest soft handles as they don’t work for me at all. (I like the older Snap On “hard handle” comfort grip, but that’s about the only one).
With a roto head ratchet you do need the ability to use it like a screwdriver, so a screwdriver handle is a good choice, but I opted for the knurled handle and it’s been great. Works as a screwdriver handle, loads of grip, but durable too.
Dave455
Well-known member
Sadly not. None of the KoKen ratchets of this style offer a quick release option, so I suspect the mechanism makes it difficult. Koken are not usually shy about offering options.
The only options on this one are the usual handle choices.
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pizza
Well-known member
i like your theory much more than mine which was: polishing that area isn't a part of their spec, and it's probably just left up to the discretion of whoever's in charge of that run. lol
likewise. i like the contrast, but i also appreciate my milled/polished samples for the extra work involved.
pizza
Well-known member
not that i've seen. including one ordered august 2020 directly from nepros.
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According to my toothmeter, the 2 that I got in April this year have metal selectors also.
That was one of the first things I checked when I received them although I had no idea there were rumors about plastic ones.
toothmeter is accurate enough for me.
You know, as plastics progressed, some plastics can trick me into thinking they are metal, like some glass filled nylon I suppose.
But tapping something against my tooth has never failed me yet!
pizza
Well-known member
interesting info, @measuredtwice. my assumption is that something was lost in translation, or those guys are mistaken.
perhaps there was a redesign of the selector (steel -> aluminum?), but it had to have been before any of my samples were made.
mine are all aluminum. i think i watched AvE complain in a video about the selector switch being a stamped part, but after taking mine apart, it looks cast to me.
certainly not as robust as steel, but the switch part is 2mm thick. seems sturdy enough to me?
the 1/4" version is actually a little thicker (2.2-2.3mm) but is overall smaller and has different cross sectional geometry (more triangular).
curiously, the 1/4" uses a T6 screw, and the 3/8" uses a 2mm hex screw.
perhaps there was a redesign of the selector (steel -> aluminum?), but it had to have been before any of my samples were made.
mine are all aluminum. i think i watched AvE complain in a video about the selector switch being a stamped part, but after taking mine apart, it looks cast to me.
certainly not as robust as steel, but the switch part is 2mm thick. seems sturdy enough to me?
the 1/4" version is actually a little thicker (2.2-2.3mm) but is overall smaller and has different cross sectional geometry (more triangular).
curiously, the 1/4" uses a T6 screw, and the 3/8" uses a 2mm hex screw.
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Gregthegadgetguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2021
- Messages
- 67
So the real question, can we change the switch around so that it matches every other ratchet we grew up using? Or am I the only one that had to get used to the Nepros inverted (to me) selector switch?
And for eye candy, Nepros largest ratchet, quick spinner, extension and socket.
And for eye candy, Nepros largest ratchet, quick spinner, extension and socket.
GrantCee
Well-known member
Wait what? The 2 Nepros I have the selector switches are "correct". If I switch the lever to the right, I expect it to loosen a fastener by swinging the ratchet to the right, switch to the left to tighten.
This is how every ratchet I've owned works since I was a teenager. The only ratchets I own that are "backwards" (to me) are a Tekton that I keep in my truck & a couple of HF slim ratchets which I got only in the past few years. They drive me nuts.
Just showing my Snappys cause those are the only ratchets I have that have the directions marked.
Gregthegadgetguy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2021
- Messages
- 67
I am wrong, my Asahi Lightool is the one that is backwards! Nepros and Koken are already taking over the ratchet slot in my Assistant.
I have been using the Asahi and round head types like the Wera pictured. Not sure I am ready to give it up because how good it feels after some initial lube.
I have been using the Asahi and round head types like the Wera pictured. Not sure I am ready to give it up because how good it feels after some initial lube.
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mercifiknow
Well-known member
Can someone recommend a stubby with extra tools in the head? Prefer ratcheting. Needs to be reliable, able to find replacement bits easily (USA preferred), and is RELIABLE. Have Koken tools currently and love them and would prefer to stay with them but I didn’t see one.
Hope Everyone Is Well!
Thanks!
Hope Everyone Is Well!
Thanks!
superautobacs
Well-known member
Here's a view of the barrel tumbler used for Nepros tools, at KTC's manufacturing plant.
taken from this thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/ktc-kyoto-tool-company-its-tools-and-tool-museum.163056/
Unless you use a very small media in the tumbler, you won't be able to smoothen out the rough spots left behind from the hot forging stage. Even if they did, it'll take too much time and probably adversely affect the overall finish. Instead, they could CNC mill that surface area but that would drive up production time by a lot and that'll equate to higher production costs. I see nothing wrong with it; I like the rough, 'raw' texture...a mark of a hot-forged piece of their 5GQ alloy steel.
taken from this thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/ktc-kyoto-tool-company-its-tools-and-tool-museum.163056/
Unless you use a very small media in the tumbler, you won't be able to smoothen out the rough spots left behind from the hot forging stage. Even if they did, it'll take too much time and probably adversely affect the overall finish. Instead, they could CNC mill that surface area but that would drive up production time by a lot and that'll equate to higher production costs. I see nothing wrong with it; I like the rough, 'raw' texture...a mark of a hot-forged piece of their 5GQ alloy steel.
Some Japanese tools I've gotten recently:
I wanted a locking screw extraction pliers, but didn't want to go Engineer with my recent disappointment with them. So thanks to this thread I got the 3peaks instead. It has nothing to complain about this far. Well made!
Then three 10mm wrenches for the collection. The ASH I found at a local flea market, the KTC and Tone was bought from Amazon Japan. The Tone isn't made in Japan, but the others are.
The KTC 1/4" ratchet was another purchase out of curiosity. I was a bit hesitant over it since it's only 36 teeth, but I was surprised by how smooth and nice it is!
The Vessel stubby bit handle was just something I threw in to the Amazon order since I can't get enough stubby screwdrivers...
The Koken tap holder I got have the set. I got the bigger version previously and wanted to secure the set.
Then just a random 10mm Koken socket that I found at the flea market. The chrome has wore off the end, so has probably seen heavy use...
I also got two key chains from Amazon. The Sunflag is interesting, with it's flat design PH2 end. It was very inexpensive but also just a stamped piece so...
The Tone is again not made in Japan, but very cool. A fully working PH2 screwdriver, perfect for a stubby screwdriver collector like me!
I wanted a locking screw extraction pliers, but didn't want to go Engineer with my recent disappointment with them. So thanks to this thread I got the 3peaks instead. It has nothing to complain about this far. Well made!
Then three 10mm wrenches for the collection. The ASH I found at a local flea market, the KTC and Tone was bought from Amazon Japan. The Tone isn't made in Japan, but the others are.
The KTC 1/4" ratchet was another purchase out of curiosity. I was a bit hesitant over it since it's only 36 teeth, but I was surprised by how smooth and nice it is!
The Vessel stubby bit handle was just something I threw in to the Amazon order since I can't get enough stubby screwdrivers...
The Koken tap holder I got have the set. I got the bigger version previously and wanted to secure the set.
Then just a random 10mm Koken socket that I found at the flea market. The chrome has wore off the end, so has probably seen heavy use...
I also got two key chains from Amazon. The Sunflag is interesting, with it's flat design PH2 end. It was very inexpensive but also just a stamped piece so...
The Tone is again not made in Japan, but very cool. A fully working PH2 screwdriver, perfect for a stubby screwdriver collector like me!
XxToolAholicxX
Well-known member
They look very similar to my MAC pliers and they don't have COO on them could it be possible they they are outsourced to them..While researching on Japanese amazon I came across these super small Keiba pliers. I am into small and lightweight tools that get the job done so I had to purchase. They were kind of expensive at over $115 for the set. Black leather pouch was included.
In my brief interaction with the so far, they are so small it’s almost novelty getting a job done. I tried cutting a standard zip tie with the cutter and it was a tricky two handed affair. I still may carry them in a moto bag when going ultra light.
Thought I would ask you guys if there's something similar to the Wera 056490 Tool-Check Plus Ratchet Set.
It seems like the Japanese would have something like this but I can not find anything. Most interested in compactness and versatility of the kit to fit in a small toolbox.
Link to product in question:
www.kctool.com
It seems like the Japanese would have something like this but I can not find anything. Most interested in compactness and versatility of the kit to fit in a small toolbox.
Link to product in question:
Screwdrivers by Wera, Witte, Stahlwille, Knipex, Hazet, Gedore, Felo - KC Tool
High Quality German Screwdrivers. We Specialize in Wera Screwdrivers, Stahlwille Screwdrivers, Gedore Screwdrivers, Hazet Screwdrivers, Felo Screwdrivers, Heyco Screwdrivers and other German Made Screwdrivers.
www.kctool.com
measuredtwice
Well-known member
Wera has patents on the plastic storage design --> https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102006055025A1/
If you want a bit driver set in a square box that is actually made in Japan, you might take a look at the Ko-ken catalog --> https://kokenusa.com/
If you want a bit driver set in a square box that is actually made in Japan, you might take a look at the Ko-ken catalog --> https://kokenusa.com/
It doesn't have to be plastic. Just looking for a compact kit.
I found the Facom Nano which comes in a plastic kit and is very similar to Weras offering.
Seeing if anyone here knows something similar from a Japanese brand without referring me to a catalog.
mercifiknow
Well-known member
Ok found the Koken stubby but no bits in the head or ratcheting. Suggestions?
KTC DBRS06. Probably made in Taiwan, not easily available in the U.S., not inexpensive. But it's a ratcheting stubby with bit storage in the handle from a Japanese Co.
mercifiknow
Well-known member
M6,
Are the bits easily replaced? I have a full-size German one and if you lose those bits it costs a pretty penny to replace if you want them in the head as none fit in that head.
Are the bits easily replaced? I have a full-size German one and if you lose those bits it costs a pretty penny to replace if you want them in the head as none fit in that head.
No idea