OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
Yes i have a donor frame.
89 silverado frame repair pic heavy
- Thread starter cyamaha2007
- Start date
wreckercologist
Well-known member
I have no comment to make on whether or not this should be repaired......more power to ya'.
I do have a few comments to make in regards to where the frame is being cut and how it is to be repaired. To put this in perspective, I have done this type of work for nearly 11 years, day in, day out.
Don't "Z" or "V" the frame. It's a waste of time for several reasons. One, it makes fitting up and aligning much more work. Two, you introduce the possiblility of more errors during the welding due to the extra weld needed, as well as more heat in a concentrated area. Cut it straight and square, 45 degree the edges and weld it.
It should be gloved, especially where you're planning on joining the two sections. "Fish plates", "diamond plates", "boat plates" or whatever you call them have a habit of reducing the frame's ability to twist and flex in the area where the plate is. That builds up stress in one area instead of allowing it to be distributed throughout the frame. Cracks tend to appear around these types of reinforcements FYI.........But, It's a pick up truck, not a mongo huge semi. I have done this before but it depends on the application the truck is going to be used for. You'll probably be OK with it, it's just not my preference.
What's a glove? It can be either a "C" or an "L" shape..........can be either inside or outside.........and can either reinforce the top flange, the bottom flange, or both. The idea here is to help the part of the frame that's doing most all the work, and that part is the flange (both top and bottom). When I refer to the flange, I'm talking about the top of the rail including the radius (same idea on the bottom flange too). The area between the two is less critical.
Personally, I don't care for the frame being cut over the axle on a parallel leaf spring truck. The springs really twist and flex the frame back there. A better place to splice the frame IMO, would be the halfway point between the back of the cab and the front spring perch....just my opinion. I'm saying if it were me, I'd back half it like a race car or a frame stretch on a heavy truck..... Again, JMO.
Please don't take my post as a personal attack, I don't mean it that way. Knowledge is useless unless it is passed on.
+1 on the 220 volt welder.
I wish you the best of luck
. Should be a fun and quick little project.
I do have a few comments to make in regards to where the frame is being cut and how it is to be repaired. To put this in perspective, I have done this type of work for nearly 11 years, day in, day out.
Don't "Z" or "V" the frame. It's a waste of time for several reasons. One, it makes fitting up and aligning much more work. Two, you introduce the possiblility of more errors during the welding due to the extra weld needed, as well as more heat in a concentrated area. Cut it straight and square, 45 degree the edges and weld it.
It should be gloved, especially where you're planning on joining the two sections. "Fish plates", "diamond plates", "boat plates" or whatever you call them have a habit of reducing the frame's ability to twist and flex in the area where the plate is. That builds up stress in one area instead of allowing it to be distributed throughout the frame. Cracks tend to appear around these types of reinforcements FYI.........But, It's a pick up truck, not a mongo huge semi. I have done this before but it depends on the application the truck is going to be used for. You'll probably be OK with it, it's just not my preference.
What's a glove? It can be either a "C" or an "L" shape..........can be either inside or outside.........and can either reinforce the top flange, the bottom flange, or both. The idea here is to help the part of the frame that's doing most all the work, and that part is the flange (both top and bottom). When I refer to the flange, I'm talking about the top of the rail including the radius (same idea on the bottom flange too). The area between the two is less critical.
Personally, I don't care for the frame being cut over the axle on a parallel leaf spring truck. The springs really twist and flex the frame back there. A better place to splice the frame IMO, would be the halfway point between the back of the cab and the front spring perch....just my opinion. I'm saying if it were me, I'd back half it like a race car or a frame stretch on a heavy truck..... Again, JMO.
Please don't take my post as a personal attack, I don't mean it that way. Knowledge is useless unless it is passed on.
+1 on the 220 volt welder.
I wish you the best of luck
. Should be a fun and quick little project.
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
Im stuck with frame cut at a 45 and over the axle since it has already been done to both frames. How would i fasten the GLOVE to the frame. I just dont understand where to weld it if it was on the top rail of the frame?
wreckercologist
Well-known member
An excellent point. I've seen many broken frames and even repaired a few. Frames break, not explode. Even when they break, they rarely do so completely.
Of the ones that break in half completely, I've only seen pics of them. I believe you stand a far better chance of being killed by a tire/wheel that comes loose and crashes through your windshield than a vehical that breaks in half.
wreckercologist
Well-known member
relax...It will be fine. I realized after I posted that I may have come off a little "alarmist". It's also possible I'm making more out of this than is needed.
In any event, let me go back to work and snap a few pics of a truck I've got in the shop right now. This will make it easier to explain. I'll be about an hour.......gonna hit a drive-through and get some dinner too.
wreckercologist
Well-known member
Pic one I'm using a piece of angle iron to simulate a glove on top (never mind the crappy spelling:tard:
). I do not recommend using angle iron for this. You've got plenty of excess frame to use as a glove from the donor truck. The first pic details where not to weld. Never weld a glove across the flange. It's a crack waiting to happen. Second pic shows the frame splice and where the glove was welded across it. It's OK to stitch like this......something like 2"or 3" of weld every so often. You can also skip the welding and bolt the glove on too, or use a combination or welds and bolts. Welding is quicker.
Third pic shows where it's OK to weld with the flange. Don't run a solid bead, stitch it. Some of the pics show plugs welds (both mine and Dodge's). Plug welds are fine on the side, but I would avoid them on top.
Forth pic details the plug welds on the side. You could just as easily substitute bolts for the plug welds, just make sure no matter what method you use, that you stay clear of the radius. I'd put either a few bolts or a plug weld on both sides of the frame splice.
If you decide to do a diamond plate like the ones in the next two pics, try to make it rectangular like these (six sided, not four).
Get some automotive seam sealer and seal up the glove where it's not welded. This will help prevent rust jacking, which if given enough time, will destroy the frame (ha ha, then you'll have to repair it again). A good undercoating sprayed over all of it will protect it even further.
Attachments
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
Wrecker that is great. Ill go and cut my glove off of the frame before i scrap it thanks!!
No problem... I had to do it and THREE guys at work had to do with there trucks....same place. oh.... and to the rubber too.... one of them just had the rubber to the rear end go. I pan on doing my very soon just to be sure.
e-tek
Well-known member
Here's the problem with this site: TOO MANY CHICKEN LITTLES!!!!!! You'd think by now you all would have learned that the SKY IS NOT FALLING!!!
Good for you for fixing it and not listening to these guys. I constantly write similar words here whenever someone wants to fix something and the band starts playing that same old "don't do it!" tune....
Sheesh - I thought this was a site of guys who CAN do it.....
I'm glad you're sticking to your guns and finally got some good advice from wrecker...but it'd be fine EVEN if you **** welded it together!! It's the last 3 feet for christs sake!!
Good for you for fixing it and not listening to these guys. I constantly write similar words here whenever someone wants to fix something and the band starts playing that same old "don't do it!" tune....
Sheesh - I thought this was a site of guys who CAN do it.....
I'm glad you're sticking to your guns and finally got some good advice from wrecker...but it'd be fine EVEN if you **** welded it together!! It's the last 3 feet for christs sake!!
Lippyp
Well-known member
I'd echo what e-tek said, repairing a chassis (frame) isn't that hard. I had to do some huge repairs to my old Trooper and that was between the two spring mounts. After it was welded up I happily dragged a couple of tons of trailer around with it. If you're cutting the back end off the main thing is to take lots of measurements and get it back together all square and make sure you've got some decent welds on there.
xJoey Dubsx
Well-known member
might as well bagged the back half since you were doing a back half on it IMO.
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
do bags really have a place on a farm truck??
e-tek
Well-known member
Yes it is!!!!! This is a truck I'm almost done repairing. Had to replce both body mounts, rebuild front and rear cab corners and fill holes on spring perches! http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8712204&posted=1#post8712204
From what I see in the pics, the OP cut the frame behind the axle centres - so it doesn't even matter if it goes back on perfectly straight! As he only has the rear spring perch to hook back up he could build in some adjustment back there to remedy any "dog-tracking" that may occur.
Again, a Z, or a ****-weld with gussets would be fine. Check the HAMB site, or autobodystor.com, or Google "frame repairs" and you'll find many guys doing much more involved work.
So for all you "Mary's", maybe you should be on the "I'm paralyzed by fear" website: www.don't-do-it.com
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
Thanks for all the help. Ill have some more pics tonight. I hope to have the frame tacked together by 6. And to everyone that said dont do it I also welded a new leg on a swingset for my neighbor. He has a 3year old daughter... im losing sleep over it and he is too.
dirttracker18
Well-known member
Wow, I can't believe the nah sayers here. Don't see that as much in the other areas of this site. People fix frames all the time and if done right it will be better then stock. At least that what you should shoot for.
I second the poster about fixing metric GM frames. Done it lots for dirt track cars which take a way bigger beating from the track and other cars.
As far as it breaking, come on, it's the last 3 feet (I read that right?). Are the other posters suggesting we take all the old muscle cars and hot rods off the rod that have been 'restored'? give me break.
What is worse is straighten frames. I would rather see a frame cut and welded then straighten back. You are setting up a weak spot. Should we take every car/truck off the road that has had it's frame straighten? Some frames have sections welded in at the factory, better start the crusher.
cyamaha - Nice air cleaner. Ahh the old flipped lid trick for some extra breathing room. Nice. Haven't seen that in a while. I believe it does work but your are taking in hot air from the engine bay so who knows.
I second the poster about fixing metric GM frames. Done it lots for dirt track cars which take a way bigger beating from the track and other cars.
As far as it breaking, come on, it's the last 3 feet (I read that right?). Are the other posters suggesting we take all the old muscle cars and hot rods off the rod that have been 'restored'? give me break.
What is worse is straighten frames. I would rather see a frame cut and welded then straighten back. You are setting up a weak spot. Should we take every car/truck off the road that has had it's frame straighten? Some frames have sections welded in at the factory, better start the crusher.
cyamaha - Nice air cleaner. Ahh the old flipped lid trick for some extra breathing room. Nice. Haven't seen that in a while. I believe it does work but your are taking in hot air from the engine bay so who knows.
xJoey Dubsx
Well-known member
sure, you can lower it to put stuff in easier? lol.
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
It would make getting in and out way easier. Is there durabilty issues? I dont want to do it just curious.
xJoey Dubsx
Well-known member
Durability issues? What issues?
My buddy Potter's truck which is a 3500 that hauls a 5th wheel with 2 to 3 trucks on it to long distance shows...
The bags hold 2600 lbs each, before you factor the leverage.
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
My angle grinder died today so no update i hope ill get somewhere tomorrow
bmxr4life87
Well-known member
none of this has killed anyone yet???
nate379
Banned
Kalifornia has obviously spoiled you! In the rust belt I would not consider that bad for something that is even just 10 years old. This thing being an 89, it's in pretty good shape!
My brother bought an 03 GMC about a month ago and had to replace the rocker panels and door skins since they were rusted out. (Lives in Maine)
My brother bought an 03 GMC about a month ago and had to replace the rocker panels and door skins since they were rusted out. (Lives in Maine)
xJoey Dubsx
Well-known member
crewchief888
Well-known member
i did a friends jeep frame last summer that was rusted from the rear x-member almost 1/2 way up to the frame kickup. we pulled the tank and rear spring hangers, cut out all the rust and made some patch panels that extended 3" past the rust, welded everything back together, and made a new rear x-member.
this jeep gets driven hard, and wheeled. it's on 35" mud terrians, and has a built smallblock under the hood. this same guy , about 4 years ago, snapped a rusted frame at the front spring mount for the rear spring. after ratchet starpping the axle back in place he got it back to the parking lot, added a couple pieces of angle iron to the framee and welded it up. that keep is still being wheeled.
OP
cyamaha2007
Well-known member
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
cyamaha2007....very nice fitting of the two pieces going together.
It almost looks like a pencil line through there instead of two separate pieces.sparky7
Well-known member
Hey man i would love to see the finished product. F*** all these nay sayers. I just picked up a 1999 chevy 2500 6.0 truck and the rear section of the frame is rotted where the hitch attaches, i am going to attempt to repair it.
As long as your welds are good that repair will work fine. Those trucks rust worse in the rear than the front. My truck the rear shock mounts were toast but the fron spring perches like new. I wouldn't undercoat it when done. Paint it with SEM undershassis (brush it on). then use fluid fild. This stuff is great look it up!
slopdog
Well-known member
Nice looking job so far . I like the beveled joints , I have fixed more of those 1/2 ton truck frames than I care to remember .
I wouldn,t think twice about your,s . That will be better than many that are on the road . Not to mention that the box bolted on gives added strength .
I wouldn,t think twice about your,s . That will be better than many that are on the road . Not to mention that the box bolted on gives added strength .
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
sberry
Banned
Yes, good job. I leave a little gap on this kind of work to let the weld penetrate thru but its minor here. Here is a cobble on a Ranger. Slid a "glove" under a couple rivets I blew out. Simply patch welded some scraps on.
