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Battery tools for DIYers

Blind1

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In #1 mode (low torque) my Surge does a nice job of advancing the screw/whatever with just enough power, and doesn't over-drive or cam out. I have to admit the Craftsman C3 predecessor was mainly used for decking similar tasks and the drill had the rest of the driving tasks, but the Surge just took over everything.

I like the flexibility of a drill. I have many many options for torque settings depending on materials. I can totally understand where a multi-setting impact could perform well for the DIYer.

I also like having separate tools for various bits on long projects. Drill with a bit for a pilot hole and the driver for the screw. No need to change.

I like the flexibility of both - precision when I need it and a hand-held honey badger when I need that.
 
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FMB4

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I'd recommend corded over cordless for the average DIY work. No batt to maintain (whether you use it or not) and no finding out that your kinda pricey cordless doesn't offer much power after about an hr or so of real use. I also say this because you can often buy 2-3 corded tools w/plenty of everlasting power for the price of a single name brand cordless impact drill. Another negative with cordless (especially w/ higher voltage/capacity) is they're much heavier than the average corded tool.

That said, I too would go with a good VSR 3/8" 10mm cordless drill and leave it at that.
 

tarbellb

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My impact driver holds drill bits just fine - lol


You say you have five impact drivers, but it doesn't sound like you actually use them. There are a massive range of hex bits, and they're far more precise than a drill with a chuck.


Riiight...

Get a worse tool for the infrequent drilling a casual homeowner does vs. installing fasteners... why?

I mean seriously - A drill is good at drilling and pretty **** at fasteners. An impact driver is great at fasteners and fine for light-to-moderate drilling tasks done by the casual DIY homeowner.

An impact driver is not a heavy-duty drill for sure, and not a hammer drill, but as a more-than-casual DIY guy, my Surge impact driver has done a lot of great work with more grace than the drill can manage. I have both tools handy, and no bias beyond what does the work the best. The drill sits a lot more than the impact. If I have to choose between my drill and my impact, there wouldn't be any hesitation to take the impact.

I may have approached this from a more advanced user standpoint, you and Seber both bring up good points.

If we are talking Tiffany townhome owner or Dave the duplex guy, yeah a impact might be a better solution. Definitely better at driving 3" drywall screws into a 4x4 to make that sweet shipping pallet coffee table🤮


BUT.... if we are talking serious DIY, a drill is still a better more versatile tool.

hex bits more precise then a twist bit, c'mon, get out.

Sure the bit may be precise, but please show me who is making a zero tolerance non wobble hex chuck. Its the chuck thats the problem, not the bits.

Plus you are limited to hex shank for everything, counter sinks, self centers, large diameter twist bits, hole cutters, plug cutters. Good luck finding a USA made 82* zero flute 1/2" counter sink HEX drive at your local outfit

Perhaps im just using more stuff then you?
 

Kscardsfan

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Despite what a couple of Fudds have to say about them, the impact is far and away better for covering 99% of your bases than a drill is or will be. If you need to drill a bunch of holes into the web of a W section beam on a scissor lift, the drill is the best choice. If you’re putting together some ikea furniture or tightening up the screen door hinges, the impact will make your life better. Buy an impact first, build the rest of your kit around it.
 

Kscardsfan

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I'd recommend corded over cordless for the average DIY work. No batt to maintain (whether you use it or not) and no finding out that your kinda pricey cordless doesn't offer much power after about an hr or so of real use. I also say this because you can often buy 2-3 corded tools w/plenty of everlasting power for the price of a single name brand cordless impact drill. Another negative with cordless (especially w/ higher voltage/capacity) is they're much heavier than the average corded tool.

That said, I too would go with a good VSR 3/8" 10mm cordless drill and leave it at that.
I was working as a commercial electrician and could use 1 or 2 batteries to get through a 10 hour day. And this was before brushless made its way into the world in a major way. The day of the pain in the *** extension cord and corded tools has died and returned to the earth from whence it came. Let the past stay in the past.
 

M635_Guy

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I may have approached this from a more advanced user standpoint, you and Seber both bring up good points.

If we are talking Tiffany townhome owner or Dave the duplex guy, yeah a impact might be a better solution. Definitely better at driving 3" drywall screws into a 4x4 to make that sweet shipping pallet coffee table🤮


BUT.... if we are talking serious DIY, a drill is still a better more versatile tool.

hex bits more precise then a twist bit, c'mon, get out.

Sure the bit may be precise, but please show me who is making a zero tolerance non wobble hex chuck. Its the chuck thats the problem, not the bits.

Plus you are limited to hex shank for everything, counter sinks, self centers, large diameter twist bits, hole cutters, plug cutters. Good luck finding a USA made 82* zero flute 1/2" counter sink HEX drive at your local outfit

Perhaps im just using more stuff then you?
I think we're not communicating well (much easier to have happen in a forum vs. over a beer). Here's my attempt at a breakdown (apologies in advance for the length):

tl;dr Overall Point: At their primary tasks, each is non-trivially better than the other. For the secondary tasks, the impact is a far better (basic) drill than the drill is a driver.

Long-form
A drill is superior for drilling tasks, especially heavy-duty type stuff (incl. large-diameter twist bits), precision holes or things like counter-sinks, etc.). That kind of thing is exactly why I have a drill. (M18 brushless-but-not-FUEL)

A drill is absolutely inferior in every way to a good, modern impact for fasteners. The chuck works to mitigate some of the downsides, but it is a band-aid over sucking chest wound. It's never going to do the job well, just well-enough. This is where I was talking about precision - I agree hole-making precision is an easy win for the drill.

Net: A drill is made for drilling. It's functional for fasteners, but a shadow of what a good impact is.

A modern impact has modes that sense the state of the fastener. It doesn't need a chuck. It will drive fasteners that give drills fits or requires pre-drilling. It goes from constant rotation to impacting automatically and with the correct amount of force, stopping when the fastener is done (at least if you're in the right mode). No cam-out or other stupidness that leads to a damaged fastener or workpiece. It also has repeatability you just can't get with a drill when it comes to driving. A story: one of the early tasks for my M12 Surge was a bunch of decking. I'd started the day before. My old C3 impact was working on vintage batteries and between that and the noise/vibration, I gave up on it and switched to my drill. Despite being a shiny-new M18 brushless, it wasn't fun. I went that night and got the Surge, and the next day was awesome - fast and repeatable. I thought I wasn't going to finish until late afternoon, but ran through the rest of the work really fast. (Beyond that, the SURGE is really quiet and far smoother/low vibration than any impact I've ever used). I've used it to assemble all kids of stuff from work tables to IKEA stuff and it did a great job of the kinda-delicate task of swapping out all of the cabinet hinges in our kitchen (the screws are skinny and easy to cam out or snap). The impact driver made all of that just seamless. There are zero situations I've experienced or can think of for fasteners where a drill is better than my Surge. That probably wasn't true of my C3 impact - I can't even remember if it had modes, etc. - but it was such a buzzy vibration machine that I mainly used it for tougher tasks and used a drill for the rest. But that ended the day the Surge arrived. I haven't used other impacts, but I'm sure the DeWalt/Makita/RIGID/Ryobi/etc. products can be similarly effective because they have the modes and modern circuitry to do the same things mine does (though I don't think anything is doing it as quietly or gently, at least based on what I've seen). I haven't had any issues at all getting hex bits to do anything I'm using the tool for, nor have I had any fail/twist/whatever. But I do the homework and invest in good stuff. I'd also note that I've never used my drill for automotive stuff (other than drilling out bolts/etc.) and the Impact sees a fair bit of use there too.

For drilling, an impact driver can be fine for light-to-medium stuff. I've used it for installing shelves and variety of other basic jobs. I'd switch to a drill for spade/forstner/countersink/etc. bits, but I consider myself a moderately-advanced DIYer and those aren't things I'm doing frequently.

Net: An impact driver is made for driving. And it does a fine job for basic drilling.

Outside of better and worse individual products (e.g. Brand X makes a great drill but a crappy impact) that might shape perspectives, I can't see much room here outside of sticking to what you've always done or experience with old impacts that weren't good at much beyond difficult fasteners, but I'm lucky to have excellent examples of both products. I've also never been a "I've always done it that way" sort of guy - I'm happy to embrace change that improves.

I'd guess that hex bits beyond basic Phillips/torx/etc. bits had a rough start, but these days there is no lack of availability for high-quality bits for just about any task.

Overall (and last) Point: For the basic DIY homeowner asking what the best tool is to have if they're just going to have one, the answer is an impact. The tasks faced these days for most are a lot more fasteners than holes, and the need for holes is generally simple enough than an impact will be 100% fine. That describes my oldest in the first apartment exactly (and most basic DIY homeowners), so I put a Surge in the apartment-warming tool kit. Beyond that basic, one-tool scenario (and pretty much everyone on GJ is beyond that) lies the real answer: Both. If you only have an impact and you're eyeballing forstner or hole bits, add a drill to your kit.

(I'll shut up now)
 
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Citation

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Despite what a couple of Fudds have to say about them, the impact is far and away better for covering 99% of your bases than a drill is or will be. If you need to drill a bunch of holes into the web of a W section beam on a scissor lift, the drill is the best choice. If you’re putting together some ikea furniture or tightening up the screen door hinges, the impact will make your life better. Buy an impact first, build the rest of your kit around it.
This may depend on the drill and impact driver in question. Take the Nextec tools I was mentioning earlier. They are decidedly home owner focused and has only one power setting. Pluses for the drill are that it's easier to control speed, easier to control peak torque and it works with both 1/4" hex and traditional round drill bits. I'm not sure about all people here but I have a lot more traditional drill bits vs ones that fit in my impact drivers.

The impact driver does have more ultimate torque but that doesn't always matter. When I'm driving smaller screws I found it easier to not strip them with the drill vs impact driver. That is somewhat ironic since the impact driver was easier when backing out larger screws that had been painted over. I think part of the problem is the lower end impact drivers often don't have power settings (I really wish my 18V Ridgid had them). Using my Ridgid as an example. You start driving a screw with part trigger. Once it gets going you give it full trigger. However, if that's a P2 screw head it might skip if the screw head and bit aren't a good fit. Then it quickly gets torn up. With a less powerful impact driver (my Nextec for example) that wasn't as common but since my Ridgid doesn't have a low power setting (and many lower end impacts don't) I can't easily separate speed from available torque.

Honestly, for a home owner this seems like a silly argument as Drill+Impact sets are often in the $100-150 range. Why pick one when I can have both?
 

nbpt100

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Lots of good ideas above. I skimmed it fast so I may have missed some stuff.

However, identifiying yourself as a DIY er is vague. It depends what the OP leans towards wanting to do the most. Carpentry, plumbing, auto mechanics, painting, land scaping? You could make a ven diagram of the tool over lap. A decent drill would overlap in to all categories, I think. A leaf blower or weed wacker could be near the top of the list if he leaned toward landscaping. Just an other angle to consider.
 

GeoBruin

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In #1 mode (low torque) my Surge does a nice job of advancing the screw/whatever with just enough power, and doesn't over-drive or cam out. I have to admit the Craftsman C3 predecessor was mainly used for decking similar tasks and the drill had the rest of the driving tasks, but the Surge just took over everything.
I feel like many here who are saying an impact doesn't have torque control don't have a modern impact driver with multiple modes. I call the first level on my driver "Ikea Mode" because it's perfect for driving those barrel screws into that particularly cheap particle board without stripping the predrilled holes.
 
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M635_Guy

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I feel like many here who are saying an impact doesn't have torque control don't have a modern impact driver with multiple modes. I call the first level on my driver "Ikea Mode" and because it's perfect for driving thos barrel screws into that particularly cheap particle board without stripping the predrilled holes.
I think you're right.
 

Citation

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I feel like many here who are saying an impact doesn't have torque control don't have a modern impact driver with multiple modes. I call the first level on my driver "Ikea Mode" and because it's perfect for driving thos barrel screws into that particularly cheap particle board without stripping the predrilled holes.
Well mine is about 2 years old but it was a lower line model (Ridgid X4). But that is the reality. Most people aren't going to have "the best" and given the claim of "only one" I would have to assume money is so tight the person can't justify spending say $140 to get a combo set.
 

Kscardsfan

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This may depend on the drill and impact driver in question. Take the Nextec tools I was mentioning earlier. They are decidedly home owner focused and has only one power setting. Pluses for the drill are that it's easier to control speed, easier to control peak torque and it works with both 1/4" hex and traditional round drill bits. I'm not sure about all people here but I have a lot more traditional drill bits vs ones that fit in my impact drivers.

The impact driver does have more ultimate torque but that doesn't always matter. When I'm driving smaller screws I found it easier to not strip them with the drill vs impact driver. That is somewhat ironic since the impact driver was easier when backing out larger screws that had been painted over. I think part of the problem is the lower end impact drivers often don't have power settings (I really wish my 18V Ridgid had them). Using my Ridgid as an example. You start driving a screw with part trigger. Once it gets going you give it full trigger. However, if that's a P2 screw head it might skip if the screw head and bit aren't a good fit. Then it quickly gets torn up. With a less powerful impact driver (my Nextec for example) that wasn't as common but since my Ridgid doesn't have a low power setting (and many lower end impacts don't) I can't easily separate speed from available torque.

Honestly, for a home owner this seems like a silly argument as Drill+Impact sets are often in the $100-150 range. Why pick one when I can have both?
I learned how to feather the trigger on the Drill when I was a kid, so I naturally progressed to the same techniques with an impact. The newest versions with programmable user adjustable modes and real time adjusting torque are on a whole different plane than the first generation or two I worked with. I also don’t consider how many people will buy cheap *** power tools. I just buy Milwaukee and in my mind everyone else is buying pro level, constant use power tools. I don’t know why I default to that, but you’re right, there’s a lot of DIY focused, homeowner spec tools out there that probably aren’t as user friendly/well engineered as the mid and top tier stuff. Even the Ryobi and Kobalt stuff holds its own for the average user nowadays.
 

tarbellb

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If you are a diy person needing

precision
and bit versatility

a drill is a better choice


Plus everyone should learn how to use the clutch.
 

Kscardsfan

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If you are a diy person needing

precision
and bit versatility

a drill is a better choice


Plus everyone should learn how to use the clutch.
The clutch was a stop gap, half *** attempt at making a drill into a driver. The impact is a driver that’s also a serviceable drill. A drill is better for drilling holes, very little of what a homeowner, DIY does now days involves substantial amounts of drilling. It’s all drilled and ready to go from the factory, thus requiring assembly and driving of fasteners. A set of Milwaukee or Makita hex shank drill bits work great for drilling the Sizes of holes most DIY people find themselves needing. A drill isn’t as useful as an impact, hence why they sell more impacts than they do drills. Leave the drill in the past with the radial arm saw and corded tools. The future is now, and it’s wonderful.
 

M635_Guy

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If you are a diy person needing

precision
and bit versatility

a drill is a better choice


Plus everyone should learn how to use the clutch.
We're going to have to agree to disagree.

My love for the Surge impact has been pretty unexpected. After 30 years of a lot of DIY, my drill has gone from my most-used and most-invested in tool (I upgraded several times over the years for size or power) to essentially a specialty tool when I'm using specialty bits - forstner, pocket-screw bits, etc. For almost everything else, the Impact has taken over as a single-tool solution. It's faster and easier to swap bits, it's ability to sense what's going on and deliver the right power (whether drilling or working with fasteners) eliminates the need for a Hi/Lo switch and a clutch. If I'm doing something nice that required a precise hole or involved dense wood, the drill comes out, but as I mentioned earlier I've built worktables, installed a bunch of shelving, done a lot of deckwork and various installations where a combination of drilling and driving that has all has been done with the Surge.

To be honest, that transition has surprised me a lot. As I was making the transition from my old Craftsman C3 stuff to Milwaukee, I assumed the drill would continue to be the workhorse and the Stubby and Surge would be the specialty stuff. The C3 impact was loud, vibrated a lot and had to be used with attention or you'd drive the screw/whatever through the workpiece. I caught a deal on the Surge at HD that made it a cheap jump from the "regular" impact and I heard it was quiet, so that's what I grabbed. And it is my favorite and most-used tool. Maybe it's just that Milwaukee has dialed the overall experience in (though I've heard great things about the Makita too), but the thing just flat out works great in every single thing I've applied it to. I haven't used a "regular" (non-hydraulic) Milwaukee or DeWalt imact, so maybe I'm over-estimating the rest of the impact world, but I really don't think so.
 

M6erfan

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*snipped*

For the basic DIY homeowner asking what the best tool is to have if they're just going to have one, the answer is an impact.

No, that conclusion is too vague.

According to your own post (and others here); the answer is an impact with modern features that give the user control over driving torque.

Not all modern impact drivers have the features of the Surge.
 
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Kscardsfan

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No, that conclusion is too vague.

According to your own post (and others here); the answer is an impact with modern features that give the user control over driving torque.

Not all modern impact drivers have the features of the Surge.
Even Ryobi has options similar to the surge. As well as 3 and 4 speed models. The market has spoken, industry has spoken, the drill is a specialty tool now, replaced by the impact driver. The drill was the workhorse of homeowners for decades, think of all the outright dangerous and silly attachments Craftsman sold for drills in the post war boom. The impact can reasonably break out nuts and bolts, does a more than adequate job for most people’s drilling needs, and excels at what most people do for DIY projects, drive screws in super repetitive, consistent to the point of boring, fashion.
 
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M6erfan

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Even Ryobi has options similar to the surge. As well as 3 and 4 speed models. The market has spoken, industry has spoken, the drill is a specialty tool now, replaced by the impact driver. The drill was the workhorse of homeowners for decades, think of all the outright dangerous and silly attachments Craftsman sold for drills in the post war boom. The impact can reasonably break out nuts and bolts, does a more than adequate job for most people’s drilling needs, and excels at what most people do for DIY projects, drive screws in super repetitive, consistent to the point of boring, fashion.

Yes, the market is headed that way, and that's great. But still, today, there are many new impact drivers out there to buy with 'basic' 'old school' functionality. If one is going to argue against a drill, qualifiers in regards to an impact driver need to be added.
 

M635_Guy

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No, that conclusion is too vague.

According to your own post (and others here); the answer is an impact with modern features that give the user control over driving torque.

Not all modern impact drivers have the features of the Surge.
Fair.
 

zendriver

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I always hated using a drill to drive fasteners, and when I finally got a hex impact I’ve never used one for that since

Maybe it’s like that whole drilled doctors versus a bench grinder for Sharpening drill bits

Some people just want sharp drill bit With no need to prove their skills
 

speed bump

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If you are a diy person needing

precision
and bit versatility

a drill is a better choice


Plus everyone should learn how to use the clutch.
Id rather just hand anyone a battery powered impact and tell them this is how you take bits out. Drill on the 1, drive on the 2, don't use the unless the 3 unless the 2 won't turn it. Shoot with those instructions, my wife's idiot friend looked like a rockstar with an impact compared to her husband with a drill who claimed all of your points.
 

nbpt100

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If you are a diy person needing

precision
and bit versatility

a drill is a better choice


Plus everyone should learn how to use the clutch.
Yes. However there are so many decent package deals out there for a drill and an impact driver.d For just a little bit more money you can get both. If someone's budget it very tight, wait for the Black friday deals that are soon to come. You may even be able to pick up a full drill index and a bit driver kit for not much more.
 

Kscardsfan

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Id rather just hand anyone a battery powered impact and tell them this is how you take bits out. Drill on the 1, drive on the 2, don't use the unless the 3 unless the 2 won't turn it. Shoot with those instructions, my wife's idiot friend looked like a rockstar with an impact compared to her husband with a drill who claimed all of your points.
You and me both had the distinct experience of dealing with floorhands who could f’ up a sand box with a plastic shovel. Simple and user friendly is the way.
 

M635_Guy

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You and me both had the distinct experience of dealing with floorhands who could f’ up a sand box with a plastic shovel. Simple and user friendly is the way.
This was the other reason the 1st-apartment kit for my spawn had a Surge vs. a drill.
 

tarbellb

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Find me a hex shank USA made (or hell German/Japan) version of:

9/16 twist
Hole cutter
Double flute or zero countersink 82°
Plug cutter
Self centering drill
Tap and die bit sets


I guess your taking a trip to the neighbors house to borrow the drill again 😁
 

nbpt100

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Find me a hex shank USA made (or hell German/Japan) version of:

9/16 twist
Hole cutter
Double flute or zero countersink 82°
Plug cutter
Self centering drill
Tap and die bit sets


I guess your taking a trip to the neighbors house to borrow the drill again 😁
You forgot the Unicorn. :)
 

Kscardsfan

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Find me a hex shank USA made (or hell German/Japan) version of:

9/16 twist
Hole cutter
Double flute or zero countersink 82°
Plug cutter
Self centering drill
Tap and die bit sets


I guess your taking a trip to the neighbors house to borrow the drill again 😁


It literally took more time to type this than to find those two. I’m sure with more time you could find them all.
 

nbpt100

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I would like to see that Die bit set, from any COO.

The combination drill and taps are out there. Not sure if any are USA. I prefer to tap by hand but I know people use them in drills on softer metals.
 

finn

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All my newer hole saws have the hex shank for use on a driver, and I just bought an assortment of combination drill / taps from either Lowe’s or Menards that have hex shanks.
 

tarbellb

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It literally took more time to type this than to find those two. I’m sure with more time you could find them all.
Whoa whoa slow down Ks...

DIY guy likes quality stuff, needs precision, so COO USA Germany Japan would be nice

Any that junk stuff posted fit the bill?
 

fuggle

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Now here's the real fun part

What mfg is doing non wobbling hex chucks???
You need to take a few deep breaths man. Post #68 requirements for a DIYer. lol. Yea. Right. I built, build, repair a whole lot of stuff over 30 years or so, and never needed any of that ****. And this "oh its got to be USA or German." lol get real.
 

Kscardsfan

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Whoa whoa slow down Ks...

DIY guy likes quality stuff, needs precision, so COO USA Germany Japan would be nice

Any that junk stuff posted fit the bill?
Dude you keep adding extra requirements and qualifiers to this to help your cause. It’s not there. A drill is a valuable tool to have, but it is not at all the most useful or important for the DIY crowd, or the average carpenter, framer, electrician, or HVAC tech. You want to stay in the past with your drill I’m your comfort zone, we get it. But it’s not how the world is turning.
 

Aaron_W

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For most tools / users battery is a luxury. The exceptions in my mind are a drill / impact driver and yard tools which could include a recip saw. I'll also add a cordless caulking gun, bought as a joke I hope I never have to use a manual caulking gun again.

This not to say there are not cases where cordless are a game changer, but an extension cord is just not that big of a deal for most saws, larger drills, and sanders. Corded tools eliminate battery issues,, are generally much cheaper and almost always more powerful.. For this specific discussion I'm not including more advanced tools like nail guns, Impact wrenches and such. For these tools like a drill or impact driver being untethered can be very nice. Only not going into those because they are more specialized and not general DIY tools.
 
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