Craftsman circle u.

[alton1911]

My local pawn shop has been going through some changes since the shutdown.
They were apparently very busy taking tools out of storage and stocking the shelves. I found one particular bucket with a bunch of junk on top but in the bottom I found a nearly complete set of Craftsman 1/2 drive sockets, and matching extension. It’s missing the 1/2” socket. I had to pay $.25 a pound for 42 lbs of vintage Plomb, Proto L.A., Craftsman, Billings, Firestone, etc. Best day ever. My question is about the finish of these Craftsman sockets... they don’t appear to be chromed. This is how I found them. A few Snap-on pieces were not Chrome either... marked E. But the finish on them was very dull.



Thanks in advance for any help.
alton1911

 

[Private Lugnutz]

My question is about the finish of these Craftsman sockets... they don’t appear to be chromed.

Probably cadmium. I have a near-complete set, all cadmium-plated. Circle-U was made by Plomb. I posted my set in the Plomb thread, linked here.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Wow awesome haul. Sounds like you picked up alot of cool stuff. Congrats!

 

[r_olson_06]

My local pawn shop has been going through some changes since the shutdown.
They were apparently very busy taking tools out of storage and stocking the shelves. I found one particular bucket with a bunch of junk on top but in the bottom I found a nearly complete set of Craftsman 1/2 drive sockets, and matching extension. It’s missing the 1/2” socket. I had to pay $.25 a pound for 42 lbs of vintage Plomb, Proto L.A., Craftsman, Billings, Firestone, etc. Best day ever. My question is about the finish of these Craftsman sockets... they don’t appear to be chromed. This is how I found them. A few Snap-on pieces were not Chrome either... marked E. But the finish on them was very dull.



Thanks in advance for any help.
alton1911

Agreed in the Cad and some the circle u's almost have a blue tint to them. I have not seen other cad tools do this.

Looking for a Plomb 3061 Pebble Open End.

 

[Shiftless]

PSA:
If you suspect cadmium plating on a tool DO NOT grind, sand, or wire wheel it to clean it up.
Cadmium dust is extremely toxic.

Read about it here if you want to...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning

 

[Private Lugnutz]

some the circle u's almost have a blue tint to them. I have not seen other cad tools do this.

Whatever process Plomb was using was very effective. It definitely has a distinct hue and it was much more durable than any other cadmium-plated tools I have collected, which number in the hundreds. For example, with very little effort I can rub the cadmium off of Walden-Worcester tools with 0000 steel wool if I wanted to. As I have said before on the Plomb thread, I also suspect they were using some kind of zinc oxide. Not black oxide, per se, but similar. There was something on my complete in-box Plomb 1/2-inch drive set that was undetectable under all the rust that I nearly ruined it in Evaporust. It was dull enough and dark enough and most importantly uniformly intact enough to fool me as natural steel. But clearly a finish of some sort.

Cadmium dust is extremely toxic.
Read about it here if you want to...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning

Or post #3 in the Sticky, which includes links to threads discussing the identification of cadmium tool and how to deal with them... Frequent topic down here on the VB.

 

[outofbounds]

Looks like I found the right thread for these drive tools I picked yesterday. Wondering if the cad finish is indicative of "wartime" finish? Or just an industrial purpose for the "sans chrome"?

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Catalogs have proven themselves to not be 100 percent correct in dating Craftsman products but I think it's safe to say that Circle U didn't appear until after the war. Sears went through a lot of upheaval immediately following the war, with three OEMs providing sockets/ratchet to them (New Britain, Plomb and MDF). I have Circle U in both cad plating and satin chrome. There was at least one modification to the ratchets during their short life span. Odd times at Sears after the war.

 

[Mintgrun]

I found this little 3/8" circle U ratchet last week, to go with the 1/2" rusty chromed one I found a few months ago. It was a buck, due to it only spinning one way. Someone had reassembled it with the lever out 180 degrees and flipping that fixed it. Along with a little lubrication.

I've gotten attached to this little ratchet. It's got a blue hue too.






Tom

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Catalogs have proven themselves to not be 100 percent correct in dating Craftsman products but I think it's safe to say that Circle U didn't appear until after the war.

What is your rationale, JoCo? Not a challenge. Just curious. I'm the first to point out that cadmium plating was used before and also after the war, as an economy measure, so cadmium-plated Circle-U doesn't necessarily mean wartime. But, having said that, I have always considered them wartime, and Lauver's old timeline dates them from 1944 to 1948. I'm not saying that timeline is the bible, and frankly, I don't know what the rationale was, either, but it seems awfully specific, as if there was some 1944 evidence. I have no stake either way. I'm just wondering if we have anything substantive one way or another.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I certainly can't be 100 percent certain the Plomb tools didn't come until after the war Lugz, I'm just going off what I'm seeing other facets of their tool development followed. There's no rats or sockets offered in the 44 Spring and Summer, only a few offered in 45 and they're all NB stuff. Everything in the 44 Big Book is straight up pre-war pieces, from machinery to hand tool. The Heritage badge does appear in the 45 big book but, for the most part, it's just been slapped onto pre-war pieces. One huge exception to that is the appearance of the raised panel wrenches in 45. I see that as the first sign that Sears was looking to take a different path with their "modern" tools and I would guess, just a guess, that the raised panel wrenches were the first fruit of whatever wheeling and dealing was going on as Sears execs saw the war coming to an end.

All of this is just speculation on my part. I can't see Sears bringing in a new rat/socket maker during the war at a time they were offering little to nothing in the way of those tools in their catalogs. Impossible to tell what was going on the the brick and mortar stores. I have no clue how Lauver arrived at the 44 start date for the U's. I'm always willing to learn something new (and have been known to miss something in a catalog) but I'm a hard sell for putting a definitive start date on anything Craftsman, particularly during/immediately after the war.

 

[driftpin]

PSA:
If you suspect cadmium plating on a tool DO NOT grind, sand, or wire wheel it to clean it up.
Cadmium dust is extremely toxic.

Read about it here if you want to...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning

Your intention is good, protecting someone from harm, but please don't rely upon wikipedia (or recommend it) for anything more-serious than "how do they manufacture agate marbles?" and absolutely nothing health-related!

 

[Shiftless]

Good point, Driftpin...thanks for reminding all of us about that. Wiki articles are often written by folks with a hidden agenda.

 

[Provincial]

My personal experience (and you can take it of leave it) was back in High School I built up a Model A Ford from parts. I was limited in funds, so I used a belt-driven ball bearing arbor with a wire wheel to clean the rust off all the nuts and bolts (and everything else that I could hold up to the wire wheel) and then sprayed them with silver paint using spray cans. All the fasteners on Model A's were cadmium plated. During the whole process, I didn't wear any kind of mask or filter, so I inhaled all the cadmium from the fasteners, as well as all the paint, dirt, and iron oxide from the other parts.

I'm over 70 years old now, and have never had any breathing or lung problems. I haven't had any cancer, except for basal cell skin cancer in places that got too much sun, and didn't get exposed to the wire wheel dust.

My experience is that a little exposure to cadmium dust is better to avoid, but if you do get exposed, don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[d42jeep]

Shiftless is a retired science teacher. His warning is a valid one. The dangers of Cad poisoning have been known for a long time. I am acquainted with a gentleman who polished vintage tools for resale on eBay. He got extremely ill and was under a doctors care for several months.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for your rationale, JoCo.

The notion of adding suppliers in 1944, as their capacity from NB may have been slacking, doesn't shock me. Not for wrenches, per se, but I believe they added Wilde around the same time. They were already getting heavy duty drive tools from S-K, and had already experimented - granted, before the war, with Snap-on. That smorgasbord approach came to a screeching halt with MDF in 1948-ish, for sure, but it started long before the war and I'm not sure the war changed the approach.

And the two different finishes, cad, and plated, is compelling.

But, I'll have to think on it more.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Very well could be Lugz. I'm long on theory and short on proof. SK was supplying 3/4ds set long before the war, at least as early as 35. MDF didn't take over the heavy duty sets till around 51 or 52. The end of the war had to have been as predictable as was the beginning of the war so I'm sure there was a whole lot of wheeling and dealing going on in its latter stages as far as manufacturing goes.

One thing that I'd love to know (but never will) is at what point in time did Sears know they were ditching NB as a supplier and how long they kept that information from NB. MDF and their one stop shop was a no brainer, yet NB went through the logo change and submitted the Fors rat for Sears' "modern line". I suspect, but again can't prove, that the Circle U tools fall in the same general time frame as the NB Fors rat, with Circle U's having a bit more success since they were user-serviceable, unlike the Fors.

Another thought about war time shenanigans at Sears (yup, I'm rambling) is the out-with-Atlas, in-with-King Seeley process. Central Specialty Co. built many machines for Sears prior to the war under the 103 prefix. In regards to drill presses, CS was relegated to the lighter duty DPs while Atlas ruled the roost for the larger ones. The only pre-war (released early in the war) "large" DP made by CS was the short-lived Mohawk 15" machine. During the war, Sears continued to sell, to those that could buy them, Atlas DPs. In October 44, CS was acquired by King Seeley (psssst....we'll get rid of Atlas if you treat us right). The classic KS DPs (with the holdover 103 prefix) appeared in 47. Sears took a long time completely pushing Atlas out the door, but KS certainly was king of the hill for machines after the war.

Annnnnd...that has squat to do with Circle U. I'll stifle myself now.

 

[LesserSon]

This thread seemed in need of a bump.
I had seen this 6-1/4x20” box and contents in a flea shed last weekend, and purposely walked the other way. “I don’t collect Craftsman; I don’t collect Plomb,” I keep telling myself.
But the condition of the tools kept nagging me all week…so today - the last that Jake’s flea will be open till April - I went back and paid up.
Contents included ratchet, sliding tee, 19” speeder, 15” hinge handle, 10” ext, 5” ext, and 13 sockets: 1-1/8 1-1/6 1 15/16 7/8 13/16 3/4 11/16 5/8 19/32 9/16 1/2 7/16.
Every piece is marked circle-U, including ratchet (very faintly).
The hinge handle is missing the cross bar. Would that have been marked, or plain?
EDIT - couple pics showing the exterior of the box with some others. Had to bang some dents to help the lid open and shut easier, but the rain splotches cleaned off.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Mine is unmarked with one ball stop

 

[Private Lugnutz]

But the condition of the tools kept nagging me all week

I can see why. Are they chromed? My less-complete set (linked in post #2 of this set), also a flea find, is cadmium.

Nice work!

 

[LesserSon]

Mine is unmarked with one ball stop

Thank you.

Are they chromed? My less-complete set (linked in post #2 of this set), also a flea find, is cadmium.

The polished surfaces seem chromed. But the satin and knurled sufaces have a whitish look in the crevices. Maybe both? The juxtaposition reminds me of the midcentury Bonney sockets and miniature DOEs and DBEs (which I think did have chrome heads and cad shanks). I’m not as familiar with Plomb finishes to make a better comparison. Maybe when I get them cleaned up (just WD40 and a toothbrush - there is no rust), it will be clearer to me.
EDIT - Looking closely at yours, I think these are primarily chrome. But I’m clinging to the impression that there are areas where there is a different finish.

 

[LesserSon]

The only parts I now think are cadmium-plated are the two screws and the selector switch.
The “frosted” areas do not scratch or shine up with a stainless pick, so the whole kit seems to be chromed. Virtually unused.
The ratchet was entirely unlubricated. I added some grease while I had it open. I do wish I’d taken a “before” pic when I first took the cover plate off. Back together, it freewheels when the selector is hung up in the center. Maybe I have it a little too tight. Or the cone springs are reversed, or…IDK. It does work well in forward or reverse position.

 

[outofbounds]

This thread seemed in need of a bump.
I had seen this 6-1/4x20” box and contents in a flea shed last weekend, and purposely walked the other way. “I don’t collect Craftsman; I don’t collect Plomb,” I keep telling myself.
But the condition of the tools kept nagging me all week…so today - the last that Jake’s flea will be open till April - I went back and paid up.
Contents included ratchet, sliding tee, 19” speeder, 15” hinge handle, 10” ext, 5” ext, and 13 sockets: 1-1/8 1-1/6 1 15/16 7/8 13/16 3/4 11/16 5/8 19/32 9/16 1/2 7/16.
Every piece is marked circle-U, including ratchet.
The hinge handle is missing the cross bar. Would that have been marked, or plain?

What a beautiful archive!

 

[d42jeep]

The only parts I now think are cadmium-plated are the two screws and the selector switch.
The “frosted” areas do not scratch or shine up with a stainless pick, so the whole kit seems to be chromed. Virtually unused.
The ratchet was entirely unlubricated. I added some grease while I had it open. I do wish I’d taken a “before” pic when I first took the cover plate off. Back together, it freewheels when the selector is hung up in the center. Maybe I have it a little too tight. Or the cone springs are reversed, or…IDK. It does work well in forward or reverse position.

Here are Proto ratchet rebuild instructions showing how the pieces go together.
-Don

 

[Cruzan80]

There is definately some Circle U stuff that is chromed. I have a couple sockets with absolutely blinding levels of clean chrome on them...