Another What garden tractor to buy thread.

[jrsavoie]

We recently sold our 1980 John Deere 400 25 hp. - K582 - Garden tractor.

From what I have been around, we want to stay in the 25 hp. Or bigger range.

We are wanting to replace it with a diesel, not too much bigger/heavier. With 4x4, rear pto & 3 point. Possibly a loader.

The 400 had a 60" deck. A 54" belly or front deck would suffice.

We are not choosey on brands.

We have had the JD 400 since 1985 and really have no clue what is available or what we should be looking for.

We know we want tires at least as big as the 400 had or bigger.

Our yard can be soft on occassion.

We have a couple older Toro front decks. 223D and 325D for mowing.

We are not scared of old. And want pre-emissions. Not really sure what years that includes.

Links or PMs appreciated, if you know of something specific.

 

[tarmy]

Look into Harvest Returns. I got a great deal on one with low hours…lots of dealer incentives. Not sure if they have them in your area…but out here that is the best way to get them.

 

[jrsavoie]

Look into Harvest Returns. I got a great deal on one with low hours…lots of dealer incentives. Not sure if they have them in your area…but out here that is the best way to get them.

I am not sure I got the proper search results.
Thanks

Raise money for your farm or agribusiness — Harvest Returns

Harvest Returns provides flexible funding for farms, ranches, agribusinesses, and early stage agtech companies.

www.harvestreturns.com

Harvest Returns tractor at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[tarmy]

Out here Harvest Returns are the tractors the various dealers get from manufactures right before huge harvest seasons. In CA there simply are not enough tractors to get all the fall harvest in…so all the manufactures flood the market (dealers) with tractors that are rented out/put in the field for short harvest time. Then the manufacturers offer great incentives to unload them…to the buyers of slightly used tractors.

the dealer I bought from had close to a hundred L2800 Kubotas. I found one with only 135 hours (which is nothing really) and paid about half of what a new tractor would cost. The dealers also had good incentives to sell attachments with them so I got a loader and backhoe as well.

these days with all the crazy supply chain ****…not sure if they have as many around. Out here the fall is when this happens…not sure if they even have these near you…or when. You asked for suggestions…and this might be worth some investigation…hope it helps.

 

[jrsavoie]

Out here Harvest Returns are the tractors the various dealers get from manufactures right before huge harvest seasons. In CA there simply are not enough tractors to get all the fall harvest in…so all the manufactures flood the market (dealers) with tractors that are rented out/put in the field for short harvest time. Then the manufacturers offer great incentives to unload them…to the buyers of slightly used tractors.

the dealer I bought from had close to a hundred L2800 Kubotas. I found one with only 135 hours (which is nothing really) and paid about half of what a new tractor would cost. The dealers also had good incentives to sell attachments with them so I got a loader and backhoe as well.

these days with all the crazy supply chain ****…not sure if they have as many around. Out here the fall is when this happens…not sure if they even have these near you…or when. You asked for suggestions…and this might be worth some investigation…hope it helps.

Everything is worth considering and a deal good enough to travel for or to pay shipping, is still a deal.

I've traveled half way across the Country for deals on vehicles. Bethlehem, Pennsylvania and San Antonio from just south of Chicagp.

 

[Bill Bowman]

Maybe check with Zack here on the board. (zkdiesel) He's out around Monee and may have a lead on what you need. Good luck

 

[jrsavoie]

Maybe check with Zack here on the board. (zkdiesel) He's out around Monee and may have a lead on what you need. Good luck

Can he be tagged? Is zkdiesel a dealer?

Thanks

 

[Bill Bowman]

^^^^^^^ He's a mechanic and tow truck operator. Good guy, not a dealer, but very knowledgeable . I met him several years ago when he was laid up after a surgery. Brought him some car magazines to help pass the time. You should be able to search him and send him a message.

 

[bigdav160]

25hp is about the dividing line between lawn tractors and compact tractors. It seems like a Kubota BX series or 1 series John Deere would fit the bill.

I have a 32hp Yanmar (ex3200). I don't have mid mount hydraulics but I would imagine it would make a terrible mower. I have a zero turn for that anyway.

 

[ericm]

Diesels under 25.5hp can meet the current Tier IV emissions limits with engine tuning and combustion chamber design alone. No DPF or DOC is needed. Tractors under 75hp do not need DPF like diesel trucks. The vast majority of the > 25.5hp Tier IV tractors with DPF or DOC have been reliable. There's been a few models that have not.

Diesel, 4x4, loader and a rear 3pt will all add weight which you don't need for mowing and may rut or compact lawns. I needed a tractor that could run a PTO chipper, good sized rotary cutter and a grapple. I have a 37hp 5000lb tractor and a riding mower to mow the lawn. I keep the tractor off the lawn, it'll rut it right up.

 

[Firebrick43]

First, you are using the term garden tractor. There is not a lot available that is called a garden tractor with a diesel engine that is newer than yours.

JD 455, X495, or and X740+ is really it.

The sub compacts really **** to mow except in open areas. Neighbors JD 2520 has nearly the same turning circle as my 67' 2020 even though the 2020 is 3 times the weight/size.

I would personally look at a X740+ with 4 wheel steer and forgo the loader, as it sounds like you have a full size tractor already or are wanting a skid steer.

Its sounds like you have dieselitis so I wont try to convince you otherwise on that part.

 

[nikerret]

You are describing what’s known as a subcompact utility tractor (SCUT). The most common are going to be the Kubota BX and MF GC-series. The JD 1-series is considered a SCUT, but is a bit larger than the Kubota BX. They often get compared, just because they are each the smallest tractor each offers. In reality, the JD 1-Series is closer to the Kubota B than the BX.

A few years ago, I bought Kubota BX25D-1. It’s got the backhoe and I added a 60” MMM. I have other attachments and implements and it wasn’t long before I started doing stuff commercially.

For finish mowing, a zero turn is better, in damn near every way. My BX MMM has done a lot mote than it was designed to do, but it is slow and does have a large turning circle.

Here are some of my more extreme mowings (I’m still on the original blades that just now are needing sharpened):

 

[Piggywutz]

The Simplicity Legacy XL is close in size to your old JD and can have the options your looking for. Problem is new they are priced in sub compact territory. Could keep an eye out for used I guess if your not in hurry.

If you go new, any sub compact would fit the bill. Take your pick, JD, Kubota, Massey, Kioti, New Holland, TYM, LS, and others. They all have their pros and cons. In February I bought a Kubota BX2380 after demoing most of these brands. Shop around and Have some fun.

Side note, garden tractors really died off in the mid 2000’s when Cub Cadet eliminated the 3000 series. I’m an avid Cub Cadet collector and have many friends in the industry. Average folks want a disposable lawn tractor. They are not interested in maintaining equipment that can handle ground engaging implements. As the garden tractor market diminished, the sub compact market boomed. People with some small acreage wanted more tractor than what a garden tractor was but with still a relatively decent price. So today there is a void between cheap lawn tractors and higher priced sub compact tractors save the Simplicity and the JD X series. But I feel the prices of those leads folks to a sub compact purchase at the end of the day.

 

[jrsavoie]

25hp is about the dividing line between lawn tractors and compact tractors. It seems like a Kubota BX series or 1 series John Deere would fit the bill.

I have a 32hp Yanmar (ex3200). I don't have mid mount hydraulics but I would imagine it would make a terrible mower. I have a zero turn for that anyway.

Our front deck Toros don't do ditches.

 

[jrsavoie]

The Simplicity Legacy XL is close in size to your old JD and can have the options your looking for. Problem is new they are priced in sub compact territory. Could keep an eye out for used I guess if your not in hurry.

If you go new, any sub compact would fit the bill. Take your pick, JD, Kubota, Massey, Kioti, New Holland, TYM, LS, and others. They all have their pros and cons. In February I bought a Kubota BX2380 after demoing most of these brands. Shop around and Have some fun.

Side note, garden tractors really died off in the mid 2000’s when Cub Cadet eliminated the 3000 series. I’m an avid Cub Cadet collector and have many friends in the industry. Average folks want a disposable lawn tractor. They are not interested in maintaining equipment that can handle ground engaging implements. As the garden tractor market diminished, the sub compact market boomed. People with some small acreage wanted more tractor than what a garden tractor was but with still a relatively decent price. So today there is a void between cheap lawn tractors and higher priced sub compact tractors save the Simplicity and the JD X series. But I feel the prices of those leads folks to a sub compact purchase at the end of the day.

LOL. There is nothing about shopping I enjoy. Always short on time and shopping is a time eater.

Might try to find a 455 to 955 Deere. About the only tractors I know without looking them up.

New is more than I want to spend, but it seems used are going for close to new prices.

We are in no rush. It would be handy to have something , but we can get buy.

 

[jrsavoie]

Diesels under 25.5hp can meet the current Tier IV emissions limits with engine tuning and combustion chamber design alone. No DPF or DOC is needed. Tractors under 75hp do not need DPF like diesel trucks. The vast majority of the > 25.5hp Tier IV tractors with DPF or DOC have been reliable. There's been a few models that have not.

Diesel, 4x4, loader and a rear 3pt will all add weight which you don't need for mowing and may rut or compact lawns. I needed a tractor that could run a PTO chipper, good sized rotary cutter and a grapple. I have a 37hp 5000lb tractor and a riding mower to mow the lawn. I keep the tractor off the lawn, it'll rut it right up.

Which tractors should I stay away from?

We have a couple front deck Toros to mow with. We would use this to mow the ditchs - only about. 300 yards worth. Pull trailers and light duty loader use. We have an old backhoe, but something smaller would often come in handy.

I'm not scared of older. The tractor Iwas just interested in was a John Deere 955

 

[ericm]

Kubota B3350 is the biggest problem. Or was, they stopped selling them in the US and have come out with a replacement. They had a hard time getting the DPF hot enough in cold climates. Beyond that it's worth looking in the forums for the tractor brand you're looking at and seeing if theres a lot of folks having problems. Keep in mind that the large majority of regen problems is due to 1) not running the engine in the RPM range the manufacturer recommends, 2) cancelling regens and 3) letting them idle for long periods. Some older guys think it's cool to let diesels idle all day and are scared to rev the engine out at all. It's made to work, so work it. My tractor has the preferred RPM range (2000-2500) right there on the tach so you'd have to be especially thick to miss it.

I had an older much smaller Kubota without emssions gear. Its exhaust was far more objectionable than the new one. I like breathing clean(er) air.

 

[serk2021]

From what I've read Kubota has been doing the smaller tractors for the longest. When money allows it I'm going to buy a kubota bx series for my lot

 

[jrsavoie]

Kubota B3350 is the biggest problem. Or was, they stopped selling them in the US and have come out with a replacement. They had a hard time getting the DPF hot enough in cold climates. Beyond that it's worth looking in the forums for the tractor brand you're looking at and seeing if theres a lot of folks having problems. Keep in mind that the large majority of regen problems is due to 1) not running the engine in the RPM range the manufacturer recommends, 2) cancelling regens and 3) letting them idle for long periods. Some older guys think it's cool to let diesels idle all day and are scared to rev the engine out at all. It's made to work, so work it. My tractor has the preferred RPM range (2000-2500) right there on the tach so you'd have to be especially thick to miss it.

I had an older much smaller Kubota without emssions gear. Its exhaust was far more objectionable than the new one. I like breathing clean(er) air.

I like skipping the repair bills associated with emissions systems.

If you like good smelling exhaust, run bio. LOL.

 

[jrsavoie]

From what I've read Kubota has been doing the smaller tractors for the longest. When money allows it I'm going to buy a kubota bx series for my lot

I was told on a Kubota bx page that the bx probably would not be the best choice for us.

Reasons given were - not good in ditches. And not as heavy duty as our old JD 400. Not heavy enough to pull the water tank and hold up.

They recommended we step up a size. Same with JD 1025s or whatever their number is.

I've also heard of electrical issues on the newer tractors.

If I live long enough to get out of warranty - if I buy new, I don't qant to face frequent expensive. electric issues.

I'd like to stay under $10,000. Unless I find an impossible to resist bargain, I can only afford so much. I would like 3 pieces of equipment. Small tractor, skid loader and JLG.

THAT means I'm going to have to find deals or space the purchases out over an unreasonable amount of time

 

[ericm]

I like skipping the repair bills associated with emissions systems.

I've had exactly zero. The vast majority of people have no problems.

Tractors under 75HP have less stringent requirements and do not need EGR or DEF, which are the two things that most often cause problems in diesel pickups and trucks.

If you like good smelling exhaust, run bio. LOL.

Nope, that stinks even worse, and it still causes cancer.

 

[jrsavoie]

I've had exactly zero. The vast majority of people have no problems.

That is not my experience. In my experience everybody, including me, has had emissions and/or electrical issues. On everything from vehicles to every piece of equipment. Worst were CP4 powered stuff, a JCB backhoe and A white skid loader that was eventually traded in because the dealer could not get it fixed. The liader would randomly drop. Very dangerous.

How long have you had equipment with emissions and electronic controls?

Tractors under 75HP have less stringent requirements and do not need EGR or DEF, which are the two things that most often cause problems in diesel pickups and trucks.



Nope, that stinks even worse, and it still causes cancer.

LOL

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Which tractors should I stay away from?

We have a couple front deck Toros to mow with. We would use this to mow the ditchs - only about. 300 yards worth. Pull trailers and light duty loader use. We have an old backhoe, but something smaller would often come in handy.

I'm not scared of older. The tractor Iwas just interested in was a John Deere 955

When I bought my JD755 new in 1991, the dealer refused to sell me a 655, saying they just didn’t have enough hp for a mower. The 755 has been very reliable over the last 30 years. I think you are on the right track looking for a 755-955 machine. Just be aware that they feel a lot more top heavy than a 400, and parts availability is starting to become a concern.

 

[ycgoat]

We went with Kubota 4701, a front bucket, 6’ mower, and forks. It is 47HP deciding factors was 0% interest and lifting capacity

 

[jrsavoie]

When I bought my JD755 new in 1991, the dealer refused to sell me a 655, saying they just didn’t have enough hp for a mower. The 755 has been very reliable over the last 30 years. I think you are on the right track looking for a 755-955 machine. Just be aware that they feel a lot more top heavy than a 400, and parts availability is starting to become a concern.

Top heavy makes me nervous. I've had 3 friends die in roll overs.

I would actually be interested in a 455. They are very similar to the 400 gassers. The rear pro kit for them is once and done - unlike the 400's

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Our property is very hilly. II think they “feel” more top heavy than they actually are. I have never tipped mine, although a co-worker did roll his on its side. It’s the FEL that facilitates that. You just have to think about what your doing, and be sure to wear your seat belt (and maintain the ROPS) if operating on side slants. I used to regularly mow steep hills (traveling up and down, not across) on mine.

 

[BMWBOB]

I LOVE my 1975 Ford 4100. 3 cyl diesel, plenty of power (50 hp, if memory serves), and built like a real tractor, not a lawn mower. Not for mowing the yard, I use this for mowing our acreage. The one downside is that it is not 4WD, but chains and the differential lock work pretty well. It is a bit of a pain to take the loader completely off, but the bucket comes off easily

 

[jrsavoie]

I LOVE my 1975 Ford 4100. 3 cyl diesel, plenty of power (50 hp, if memory serves), and built like a real tractor, not a lawn mower. Not for mowing the yard, I use this for mowing our acreage. The one downside is that it is not 4WD, but chains and the differential lock work pretty well. It is a bit of a pain to take the loader completely off, but the bucket comes off easily

I don't see us taking the loader off much. We definitely want 4x4.

We would use it for mowing the 300 yards of ditch and maybe the 3/4 mile strip in the CRP. That we call the walking path.

I would like a quick attach bucket and a set of forks for whatever we get.

 

[BMWBOB]

My only concern for you: mowing ditches and CRP can be a bit rough. The really small diameter wheels on the lawn tractors can buck you off the seat! At least that is my experience. I borrowed my buddy's really nice Kubota - it was great for cleaning out our horse confinement, but we have very active gophers and moles which made the little wheels a deal breaker for me.

 

[jrsavoie]

My only concern for you: mowing ditches and CRP can be a bit rough. The really small diameter wheels on the lawn tractors can buck you off the seat! At least that is my experience. I borrowed my buddy's really nice Kubota - it was great for cleaning out our horse confinement, but we have very active gophers and moles which made the little wheels a deal breaker for me.

What I consider a garden tractor seems to be a lot bigger than what others do. I guess I am more into conpact or subcompact.

I am talking John Deere 400 size or bigger. I haven't found anything as stout as a 400 in new stuff yet.

 

[RPH]

I bought a Kubota box 2680, fuel, mid mount mower, and rear weight box. It’s used in the yard here as lawn mower and making life easier.
It weighs 1850 pounds. That’s twice the weight of the jd400. Weight plays an important part of getting power into the ground. Anymore 10% wheel slippage is wasted power and you are digging a trench. My weight box filled with concrete weighs more than the jd400. Plus that diesel motor in the Kubota sips fuel. I do have larger tractors for field work.

 

[jrsavoie]

I plan to hit the Kubota dealers soon.

Do you know when zero percent interest ends?

I bought a Kubota box 2680, fuel, mid mount mower, and rear weight box. It’s used in the yard here as lawn mower and making life easier.
It weighs 1850 pounds. That’s twice the weight of the jd400. Weight plays an important part of getting power into the ground. Anymore 10% wheel slippage is wasted power and you are digging a trench. My weight box filled with concrete weighs more than the jd400. Plus that diesel motor in the Kubota sips fuel. I do have larger tractors for field work.

 

[mikester]

At one point I was considering replacing my JD 425, Ive owned it since 2003. Great machine that I use year round. Grass, leaves and snow removal. Its held up very well. The only mechanical repairs were a fuel pump a year after I bought it and a few years ago the water pump went.
I started looking at diesel SCUTs and I got turned off by how noisey they are. If I bought new now I'd get a JD X738. Theyre 4WD and gas. My buddy just bought a used one for just under $10K and it came with a loader. Real nice little tractor.

 

[RPH]

No I do not know when it ends. I suspect when it costs Kubota more to finance it themselves. Biggest issue was find a unit. Be flexible but get what you need. I needed a mower as my old one for ten years died on a hydro drive. Fel is hand around the house. Get both bucket and forks, reality is I use the forks more. I also wanted shaft drive to the mower deck. Only belts I have are on the mower deck proper, where they should be. I would have gone up one range in size but no mower decks were available. So, locating units that you can actually sit on and buy can be difficult in todays world. The sell every tractor they get so not a lot of haggling. Get a good dealer and support him too. It still took almost 8 weeks to get it done.

 

[jrsavoie]

Thanks for the 8 week warning. I could wait on a deck as long as it was on paper. .

Sounds like our needs and wants are similar. I thought I heard the0% ended March 1st. Have to wait until I talk to the dealer. Even at 0%. I hate having payments. I hate taking money put of savings even worse

 

[jrsavoie]

At one point I was considering replacing my JD 425, Ive owned it since 2003. Great machine that I use year round. Grass, leaves and snow removal. Its held up very well. The only mechanical repairs were a fuel pump a year after I bought it and a few years ago the water pump went.
I started looking at diesel SCUTs and I got turned off by how noisey they are. If I bought new now I'd get a JD X738. Theyre 4WD and gas. My buddy just bought a used one for just under $10K and it came with a loader. Real nice little tractor.

Gas was a pia. One of the reasons we got rid of the 400.

Now we have a gas car so there is more reason to keep gas at the house. Need to get another diesel car and get rid of gas again.

Other wise we have to take a vehicle to town qnd buy gas for a gas tractor. 15 mile round trip. So right now it costs about $2.50 just to go get gas.

 

[mikester]

My advice is go to the dealers and sit on them. I actually looked at the BX series. The JDs felt better. I didnt like the pedal setup on the BX tractors. I think using my heel to back up would drive me crazy compared to the forward/reverse pedals being side by side on most other tractors.

 

[Firebrick43]

When I bought my JD755 new in 1991, the dealer refused to sell me a 655, saying they just didn’t have enough hp for a mower. The 755 has been very reliable over the last 30 years. I think you are on the right track looking for a 755-955 machine. Just be aware that they feel a lot more top heavy than a 400, and parts availability is starting to become a concern.

Thats understatement of the year. I don't know why deere, which is pretty good about supporting even machines back into the 2 cylinder days, has abysmal support for the 750-950 and 755-955 machines.

If you know the yanmar number of the engine and look up your own parts you are ok but tell a yanmar dealer its for a JD tractor, they will clam up fast.

 

[jrsavoie]

Thats understatement of the year. I don't know why deere, which is pretty good about supporting even machines back into the 2 cylinder days, has abysmal support for the 750-950 and 755-955 machines.

If you know the yanmar number of the engine and look up your own parts you are ok but tell a yanmar dealer its for a JD tractor, they will clam up fast.

The Toros have the heel toe pedal. I always just use my toe and move my foot.

For the toros with the Mitsubishi and Kubota engines, I had luck finding engine manufacturer parts.

I am actually trying to look at a Yanmar tractor. As much trouble as it seems it is to get a price, I can't see service being much good,

 

[Snapped-off]

Got a 400 back home. I'd love to find a 955 to clean up and put to work.