J H Williams vintage hand tools

[four.cycle]

probably the wrong choice of words... I have 1940's catalogs - up to 1947 - but then nothing until 1960... but nothing showing anything like what he has there.
I haven't checked ToolArchives for catalogs in quite a while.
that's odd they wouldn't appear in any of the catalogs

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Probably items packaged for sale through other avenues?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

that's odd they wouldn't appear in any of the catalogs

The only possible catalog the tools (wartime construction) and boxes could be in would be published in 1946, between the 1945 and the 1947. But I just don't think Williams would do something like that. The 1947 catalog was their big postwar splash, debuting their new look. Would they design the look JjKk's socket sets have and release a catalog in 1946 with that in mind? The ratchet doesn't even have a model number on it! I don't expect to see them in a catalog. I think they're contract sets with no full name and minimal branding. As for the date, I'll stay safe with can't be later than 1947, and might be wartime.

 

[four.cycle]

ahhh....

we need to find a catalog dating from somewhere between 1948-1949 and 1959!!!

 

[Ricky Joe]

.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

One thing I noticed when re-looking JjKk's sets is that Williams did not offer any Extra-Deep 1/2-drive sockets in sets in the 1941 or 1943 Tools of Industry catalogs. There's a little note next to their chart that says "Packed three in a box," but I think that refers to not being able to just order 1 unit. Minimum quantity. In the March 1943 Pamphlet A-409 and again in the March 1945 Pamphlet A-409 they were offered in two different sets (SD-4 and SD-6) and came in a cardboard box with the crossbar. It's the same situation in Catalog No. 401 (not dated, but considered 1947). Cardboard boxes only. This is making me re-think 1946 or even 1947 production. I can see different, simpler, muted, and minimalist branding (the "< W >" in the corner with the right-angled lines) if they were offering them in regular boxes with full-up branding. That suddenly seem so minimalist if they weren't doing it at all.

But the confounding feature continues to be the construction. They have the wartime wide single groove. The Extra Deep are filled in there, but it's the same wide groove. The wartime Extra Deep were knurled there.

I wonder if they're later, like 4 cyl says, like 50's or so and Williams used older tooling for their econ or contract stuff similar to what Bonney was doing with BonECon???

I don't collect postwar Bonney and it's all opaque to me. Could you briefly elaborate on this? Are you saying Bonney used wartime tooling to make BonECon tools in the 50's?

 

[misterbill]

I picked up this small lot of classic Williams off of FBM. The line wrench is my first Vulcan. The star of the show is the little Whitman and Barnes #21 DOE.







Bill

 

[JjKk40]

One thing I noticed when re-looking JjKk's sets is that Williams did not offer any Extra-Deep 1/2-drive sockets in sets in the 1941 or 1943 Tools of Industry catalogs. There's a little note next to their chart that says "Packed three in a box," but I think that refers to not being able to just order 1 unit. Minimum quantity. In the March 1943 Pamphlet A-409 and again in the March 1945 Pamphlet A-409 they were offered in two different sets (SD-4 and SD-6) and came in a cardboard box with the crossbar. It's the same situation in Catalog No. 401 (not dated, but considered 1947). Cardboard boxes only. This is making me re-think 1946 or even 1947 production. I can see different, simpler, muted, and minimalist branding (the "< W >" in the corner with the right-angled lines) if they were offering them in regular boxes with full-up branding. That suddenly seem so minimalist if they weren't doing it at all.

But the confounding feature continues to be the construction. They have the wartime wide single groove. The Extra Deep are filled in there, but it's the same wide groove. The wartime Extra Deep were knurled there.


I don't collect postwar Bonney and it's all opaque to me. Could you briefly elaborate on this? Are you saying Bonney used wartime tooling to make BonECon tools in the 50's?

Il find where I read that and ill post back. From what I remember it wasn't war-time tooling but just older tooling in general used to make the economy line. Lemme find where I read that.

 

[JjKk40]

I don't collect postwar Bonney and it's all opaque to me. Could you briefly elaborate on this? Are you saying Bonney used wartime tooling to make BonECon tools in the 50's?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah I appoligize i have no idea where I came up with that. I know I read it somewhere I just don't remember.

Another interesting thing is this little 3/8 Superwrench with only the W and usa on the wrench face...






Then I compared the 2 1/2 ratchets and I see Williams definitely did a fee more machining steps to the more common "superratchet" and more attention to detail. It is also longer by 1/2". The "superratchet" is for sure more beefier. I haven't disassembled it yet to see what the guts look like tho.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

There is no functional difference as I recall. Its Just the economy version

 

[randomthingz]

There is some uncertainty about these wrenches. Is that a stylized 'M' in that oval?

There is some uncertainty about these wrenches. Is that a stylized 'M' in that oval?

 

[randomthingz]

Hi Leg17 I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. We recently lost a family member who has gifted me with a ton of antique and vintage tools that honestly I don't know anything about and through research discovered this group. I didn't want to sell them on feebly or other sites, I would prefer that they go to people who will take care of them. I am not interested in getting rich. I just wanted a resource for this overwhelming adventure.
That said, I do not know if this is a stylize m you are speaking of, in my don't know what I'm talking about opinion, lol it looks like box lettering to me. I appreciate any knowledge you can share with me. Ty

 

[3baygarage]

I believe what Leg was getting at is those aren’t Williams wrenches. Instead of a W in a diamond it’s an M in a circle, likely a Moore Drop Forging wrench. Hope that helps.

 

[SkyPuncher]

Here is a small batch of Williams tools I just had laying out.

 

[randomthingz]

Hi Leg17 I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. We recently lost a family member who has gifted me with a ton of antique and vintage tools that honestly I don't know anything about and through research discovered this group. I didn't want to sell them on feebly or other sites, I would prefer that they go to people who will take care of them. I am not interested in getting rich. I just wanted a resource for this overwhelming adventure.
That said, I do not know if this is a stylize m you are speaking of, in my don't know what I'm talking about opinion, lol it looks like box lettering to me. I appreciate any knowledge you can share with me.

I believe what Leg was getting at is those aren’t Williams wrenches. Instead of a W in a diamond it’s an M in a circle, likely a Moore Drop Forging wrench. Hope that helps.

Ty Sir, I am completely out of my comfort zone. As I said previously, an uncle of mine passed away recently and left his antique/vintage tool collection to me, I have no idea why. I have never expressed interest in any of it. I believe he did it as a joke. I have so many sockets I can't identify mossberg #14 set from 1913 indestro, Blackhawk, snap on etc. And I am sure I could piece it out to people who don't care or dealers who don't care, but I am sorting through it and will be selling all to collector's soon. Only through collector's pages. Stay tuned. I appreciate your help.

 

[four.cycle]

There's another "M" logo out there which is rather stylized, which I believe to also be Moore Drop Forge, but I need to see more examples before I would say "for sure".

If you need help identifying anything, photos help immensely.

 

[bonneyman]

Finally dug my 3/8" super ratchet to take a picture alongside the 1/2"er I just assembled.
Found the half inch spme years ago, but the selector was missing and the gear was rusted shut. tried to free it up, but decided to just stow it on the bottom shelf until I found a donor rat. Fast forward the 4-5 years and I found that donor. (Probably the longest I've held a non-functional tool looking for the right piece). The handle was really buggared, and the selector is a bit mashed, but it works fine. Now I have a pair of the Super ratchets.

 

[RubiconJK]

Digging around today in my late Dad's tool boxes and thought I'd share a few items. Dad always liked Williams tools and we have several of his 3/8 and 1/2 socket sets as well as a large set of combination wrenches I'll try to dig out at another time. Here is a H-41A 3/4" drive hinge handle (which will also make a cameo appearance over on the Proto thread later with a socket set). I think the Williams socket set that went with this is at my nephew's place. He has a couple old tractors to keep running and still uses them! I'm shocked that this hinge handle isn't bowed as I recall it being used with a cheater pipe/bar many times.

 

[davethorik]

J.H. Williams & Co. Brooklyn, NY, USA
Vulcan Auto Tool

This thing is very interesting, and well made. AA says ca. 1910ish, so pretty old.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice find, Dave!

If you're interested in seeing a cool illustration annotating all the functions in a 1912 Motor Age, I posted one with mine on page 24 post #959 in this thread.

 

[davethorik]

Nice find, Dave!

If you're interested in seeing a cool illustration annotating all the functions in a 1912 Motor Age, I posted one with mine on page 24 post #959 in this thread.

Thanks lugz! A bottle opener! Ha! That is great.

 

[3baygarage]

Cool find. That’s in nice shape.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Nice multi tool watchamacallit!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A bottle opener! Ha! That is great.

I thought you'd find that amusing. Notice how, after ticking off 11 of the 12 mechanical related uses, they saved it for "and last, but not least..." HAHA! In 1912! And we thought we were the only generation who popped a cool one every once in awhile on the job!

 

[RubiconJK]

Many of these large combos are later, but hopefully the 1180 1 5/8" is early enough to enable me to sneak in this family photo op! I included a couple smaller sizes for scale and also threw in a 24" adjustable just because you can't have too big of an adjustable (I guess LOL!).

 

[davethorik]

I thought you'd find that amusing. Notice how, after ticking off 11 of the 12 mechanical related uses, they saved it for "and last, but not least..." HAHA! In 1912! And we thought we were the only generation who popped a cool one every once in awhile on the job!

Pardon the poor photo but it actually does a really great job at it's 12th function! This may replace my Craftsman raised panel as my new go-to.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Haha! Just in time for new years eve!

 

[Ricky Joe]

.

 

[Rkcubed]

Old Williams 1/2 ratchet, can’t remember when or where I bought it

 

[misterbill]

File these under the "tools used to fix tools" category. These factory modified (418, 420) face spanners (B-52W, S-52W) are used to remove the retaining rings on B-52 and S-52 ratchets.




Bill

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice finds, Bill.

 

[genog]

I've noticed HIGH prices at the Flea Market this year.
Well, around here anyway.
The worst of it is, that there's been a considerable drop off in the amount of cool stuff to be found.
Well, around here anyway.
I hope it's just a trend.
But....
I did find this ratchet
Something that I've hoped to find for quite a while now
It was the only reasonably priced item on the Old Timer's table.

 

[MisterEd]

A #25. Not bad looking for an centenarian.

 

[JjKk40]

File these under the "tools used to fix tools" category. These factory modified (418, 420) face spanners (B-52W, S-52W) are used to remove the retaining rings on B-52 and S-52 ratchets.




Bill

I hope to find these sometime as well!

 

[misterbill]

I hope to find these sometime as well!

If you're just looking for users, Pvt Lugnutz talks about modifying a run-o-the-mill 420 somewhere (that I can't find right now).

EDIT: Found it: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum...liams-superratchet-s-52w.415867/#post-7751200

 

[JjKk40]

Thanks ill check that out

 

[JjKk40]

I found this handy little gem on ebay! What a great tool. This one will go into the collection and im gonna grab another, if I see one, as a user for the shop!

 

[wrenchguy]

Surprisingly not mentioned or shown in the 1914 complete line catalog i have.

 

[JjKk40]

Surprisingly not mentioned or shown in the 1914 complete line catalog i have.

You think its around that old?

 

[wrenchguy]

What's the number on it? The book has No.997 as a "Short" wrench.