1/4 sliding t-handles with center position detent

[KnurledNut]

1/4 drive sliding t-handle.
What brands have a ball-retaining middle position?
Either vintage or new.
I see some older Craftsman had it.
Any others?

 

[finn]

My old SK, that I got from my grandfather has it.

It’s probably from the fifties, and been in my posessiion
for at least thirty years.

I don’t recall using it even once.

 

[KnurledNut]

Dont see too many used SK.

I see some exotic offerings like Tone and Nepros, and they are superb, but id rather not take out a loan.

Edit: Proto 4785 is on the radar.
Still looking...

 

[bwringer]

There are a few different brands of these in the motorcycle/powersports world. T-handles are a popular way to tote a reasonable amount of turning force in a compact lightweight tool.

Cruztools, for example. I'm about 80% sure this one has a detent.

1/4" Drive Sliding T-Driver » CruzTOOLS

The T-driver has our unique sliding feature and a polished chrome finish.

cruztools.com

And Bikemaster has this really compact pivoting guy with a sliding t-handle. Not sure it has a detent in the center, but I think it does. :

BikeMaster 1/4" Compact Sliding and Folding T-Handle Includes Sockets

Sliding and folding T-handle makes for a compact tool. The BikeMaster 14" Compact Sliding and Folding T-Handle is made of heat-treated vanadium steel and is chrome-plated for durability and long life. The T-handle has ball bearing detent socket holders on each leg. The sockets are 6-point for a...

bikemaster.com

Both the above are likely on the shelf at your local powersports emporium. Not sure whether COO is China or Taiwan.

 

[Tools4Me]

My vintage MAC M6T has a center detent. It also has a thinner and longer bar compared to most others. It's 5-3/4" long. For comparison purposes, my two 1/4" vintage Craftsman USA t-handles both have a 4-1/2" long bar.

I use 1/4" sliding t-handles enough to keep the ones I have around, but not enough to probably miss them much if they weren't there. I think it's one of those tools where the more 1/4" drive tools you own, the less useful a 1/4" sliding t-handle will be for you. They can perform a lot of tasks, but most can be done better with a different tool.

I use mine occasionally to turn small taps with my Lisle tap socket set. The 4 smallest tap holders in the Lisle set are 1/4" drive. In some situations, that setup works better than a regular tap handle. I also occasionally put a socket on my t-handle and use it as a "backer wrench" when tightening small bolt/nut combinations in low clearance areas where a wrench won't fit as a "backer".

My most common use for a 1/4" sliding t-handle, is I put it into the top of my Proto J4769 1/4" drive socket handle and use it to break fasteners loose before removing it and spinning the fasteners out the rest of the way by hand with the Proto handle. A fast and simple way to perform quick small jobs.

Home Industrial Tools Official Site | PROTO

Proto Industrial Tools - Safety Obsessed

www.protoindustrial.com

 

[four.cycle]

did you take a look at the 1/4" drive socket set thread?

 

[KnurledNut]

My vintage MAC M6T has a center detent. It also has a thinner and longer bar compared to most others. It's 5-3/4" long. For comparison purposes, my two 1/4" vintage Craftsman USA t-handles both have a 4-1/2" long bar.

I use 1/4" sliding t-handles enough to keep the ones I have around, but not enough to probably miss them much if they weren't there. I think it's one of those tools where the more 1/4" drive tools you own, the less useful a 1/4" sliding t-handle will be for you. They can perform a lot of tasks, but most can be done better with a different tool.

I use mine occasionally to turn small taps with my Lisle tap socket set. The 4 smallest tap holders in the Lisle set are 1/4" drive. In some situations, that setup works better than a regular tap handle. I also occasionally put a socket on my t-handle and use it as a "backer wrench" when tightening small bolt/nut combinations in low clearance areas where a wrench won't fit as a "backer".

My most common use for a 1/4" sliding t-handle, is I put it into the top of my Proto J4769 1/4" drive socket handle and use it to break fasteners loose before removing it and spinning the fasteners out the rest of the way by hand with the Proto handle. A fast and simple way to perform quick small jobs.

Home Industrial Tools Official Site | PROTO

Proto Industrial Tools - Safety Obsessed

www.protoindustrial.com

I have a specific use already in mind. Thanks.

did you take a look at the 1/4" drive socket set thread?

Ill check it out. I do have a couple options at this point.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I wasn't trying to blow off the question - I just honestly never really paid much attention to that particular feature. I think some Craftsman units used that center groove - not sure.
That said, I noticed in my own photo of one of my old CM sets I have the thing centered, so if there was a groove it's not visible. I'd have to start tearing into boxes and dig them all out to check. I am fairly confident that Indestro did NOT have that groove in the center (on ANY drive size sliding "T" handle.)

 

[KnurledNut]

I noticed in my own photo of one of my old CM sets I have the thing centered, so if there was a groove it's not visible.

Thats the problem ive ran into looking on google and ebay. I did search before posting. Thanks man.

 

[four.cycle]

^ I get it. I understood that as soon as I posted that above and then went and looked at that thread. I just found one of my older CM sets (I think it's a =V= but there's no sliding "T" in it. I'll have to go out and do a search in the garage.

 

[Tools4Me]

I have a specific use already in mind. Thanks.

I understand. Most of my post wasn't really for you, it was for others reading the thread who might be wondering about the usefulness of small sliding t-handles. I try to gear my posts towards everyone reading the thread, not just the OP.

 

[four.cycle]

Giller 42M 1/4" drive sliding "T" handle - no groove in center

 

[rick carpenter]

There are a few different brands of these in the motorcycle/powersports world. T-handles are a popular way to tote a reasonable amount of turning force in a compact lightweight tool.

Cruztools, for example. I'm about 80% sure this one has a detent.

1/4" Drive Sliding T-Driver » CruzTOOLS

The T-driver has our unique sliding feature and a polished chrome finish.

cruztools.com

And Bikemaster has this really compact pivoting guy with a sliding t-handle. Not sure it has a detent in the center, but I think it does. :

BikeMaster 1/4" Compact Sliding and Folding T-Handle Includes Sockets

Sliding and folding T-handle makes for a compact tool. The BikeMaster 14" Compact Sliding and Folding T-Handle is made of heat-treated vanadium steel and is chrome-plated for durability and long life. The T-handle has ball bearing detent socket holders on each leg. The sockets are 6-point for a...

bikemaster.com

Both the above are likely on the shelf at your local powersports emporium. Not sure whether COO is China or Taiwan.

Motion Pro also supplies these in regular and mini lengths. I have a 14 mm regular t-handle deep socket for changing batteries on my boat.

 

[Snapped-off]

Snap-on TM5

 

[KnurledNut]

Snap-on TM5

I own one. Mine doesnt have it.

 

[KnurledNut]

Motion Pro also supplies these in regular and mini lengths. I have a 14 mm regular t-handle deep socket for changing batteries on my boat.

Those look super nice, but wont work for my application. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Vicks]

You're on the tools of Japan thread, you might be aware of the Ko-ken T handles... doesnt need a mortgage unlike the Nepros...

Ko-ken 2785 | 1/4" Sq. Drive, Sliding T Handle

Sliding T Handle Ko-ken <h3><strong>2785 Sliding T Handle</strong></h3><p>Ko-ken sockets are manufactured according to DIN/ISO standards.</p> | Ko-ken USA

kokenusa.com

I have the 3/8" version which has the ball detent you're looking for, so i think the 1/4" also has it ?

I use my 3/8' T-handle with varying lengths of extensions to suit the application, that way i use multiple 3/8 drive tools (Hex sockets, Hex bits, Torx sockets & bits and many more) without having to buy a load of dedicated size T-handles.

 

[Snapped-off]

I own one. Mine doesnt have it.

How old is it? The sketch on the website shows it has the groove and my 1/2" has it.

 

[Steve_P]

I looked for the same thing a few years ago as I thought it'd be handy to use with the Lisle tap sockets. I wasn't going to pay tool truck prices for something I might use twice a year so I didn't consider them. I looked at all the main brands readily available in the US, including Proto, and none had info or showed a center groove at that time. I ended up giving up and just bought a cheap Williams import that doesn't have the groove. But I figured I could always cut one in if I had to have it.

The Koken above doesn't show a center groove.

 

[KnurledNut]

Id love the Wera, but only the 1/2 and 3/8 have it.
No clue why they didnt make the 1/4 the same.

 

[Desertskyy]

The Craftsman # is 4354 for the Sliding T bar/handle 1/4 drive

I have two V versions. Probably have had them from the early eighties. It does have a center indent

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What brands have a ball-retaining middle position?
Either vintage or new.

Hi KnurledNut. I'm a vintage (30s, 40s) only guy, and I can tell you it was a very rare feature in that era in the midget drive sizes for some reason. (Just as rare as captive detent balls to retain crossbars in hinge handles, a subject I deep dove into recently on the thread 4.c linked above.) Many major mfgrs eschewed the idea, including Snap-on, Williams, and New Britain. (The Craftsman you guys are citing must be MDF era =V= or later.)

Out of dozens of sets I have, these are the only Sliding Tees I have with a center detent ball groove.

The top two are 9/32-drive, so outside your query. They're both wartime Navy spec sets. The bottom two are 1/4-drive.

Philadelphia Mfg. Co. (no model #)
Walden-Worcester 39120-20
Walden-Worcester 7370
Armstrong Armaloy NM-20A

 

[KnurledNut]

Hi KnurledNut. I'm a vintage (30s, 40s) only guy, and I can tell you it was a very rare feature in that era in the midget drive sizes for some reason. (Just as rare as captive detent balls to retain crossbars in hinge handles, a subject I deep dove into recently on the thread 4.c linked above.) Many major mfgrs eschewed the idea, including Snap-on, Williams, and New Britain. (The Craftsman you guys are citing must be MDF era =V= or later.)

Out of dozens of sets I have, these are the only Sliding Tees I have with a center detent ball groove.

The top two are 9/32-drive, so outside your query. They're both wartime Navy spec sets. The bottom two are 1/4-drive.

Philadelphia Mfg. Co. (no model #)
Walden-Worcester 39120-20
Walden-Worcester 7370
Armstrong Armaloy NM-20A

Lots of good info. And thanks for the picture. I did notice Walden made a 1/2 drive with a thumbscrew that would be great to have in a 1/4 version! Someone should produce one with that feature. From AA:



Also, off topic, but you mentioned hinge handles with captive detent ball for crossbars. I have an old Cornwell that has that feature along with the female drive square in the handle end.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Also, off topic, but you mentioned hinge handles with captive detent ball for crossbars. I have an old Cornwell that has that feature along with the female drive square in the handle end.

Do you mean in 1/4-inch drive? Because that would be noteworthy.

Spring-loaded detent balls tucked inside the bottom and sometimes in the top of the crossbar hole in a hinge or flex-head handle ("breaker bar," colloquially) was much more common in larger sizes, especially 1/2-inch drive. Several prominent mfgrs made them like that to help keep the crossbar from falling out.

But it was extremely rare in the midget sizes. I conducted a survey of pre- and wartime midget tools, and it appears that Blackhawk was the only one doing it before WWII, in fact. Snap-on and Plomb weren't, until WWII. I have postulated that the US Army Air Corps, concerned about little crossbars getting lost inside their aircraft engine compartments, specified them for 9/32-inch drive sets, and that's when Snap-on and Plomb started making them with that feature.

If you want to read more, see the Midget thread down on the VB, post #1,469 on page 37 through post #1,524 on page 39. (EDIT: There's an A-Z Index of threads in the Sticky.)

 

[Vicks]

I looked for the same thing a few years ago as I thought it'd be handy to use with the Lisle tap sockets. I wasn't going to pay tool truck prices for something I might use twice a year so I didn't consider them. I looked at all the main brands readily available in the US, including Proto, and none had info or showed a center groove at that time. I ended up giving up and just bought a cheap Williams import that doesn't have the groove. But I figured I could always cut one in if I had to have it.

The Koken above doesn't show a center groove.

The 3785 (3/8" version - which i have) and 4785 (1/2" version - which i have seen) have the centre ball detent, it doesn't show on the pictures on various websites since the groove is on the underside of the Oval sliding bar and the spring loaded ball is on the bottom part of the drive. I'll try to grab some pics from mine...

Now i don't have the 1/4" version (part number 2785) but i'm quite sure Ko-ken incorporated the feature on this one. No harm in asking Ko-ken USA or Palmac.

Edit: here's some pics from the Ko-ken catalogue which makes me think that they did omit this feature on the 1/4" version since it is shown only on the 3/8" and 1/2" versions on their catalogue.

1/2" version:



3/8" version:



1/4" version notably missing the "feature":

 

[bscman]

Proto 4785 is a 1/4" sliding T with center detent.
Makes for a handy tool in your motorcycle kit, or with various length extensions and bit set.

 

[KnurledNut]

I looked for the same thing a few years ago as I thought it'd be handy to use with the Lisle tap sockets. I wasn't going to pay tool truck prices for something I might use twice a year so I didn't consider them. I looked at all the main brands readily available in the US, including Proto, and none had info or showed a center groove at that time. I ended up giving up and just bought a cheap Williams import that doesn't have the groove. But I figured I could always cut one in if I had to have it.

The Koken above doesn't show a center groove.

The 3785 (3/8" version - which i have) and 4785 (1/2" version - which i have seen) have the centre ball detent, it doesn't show on the pictures on various websites since the groove is on the underside of the Oval sliding bar and the spring loaded ball is on the bottom part of the drive. I'll try to grab some pics from mine...

Now i don't have the 1/4" version (part number 2785) but i'm quite sure Ko-ken incorporated the feature on this one. No harm in asking Ko-ken USA or Palmac.

Edit: here's some pics from the Ko-ken catalogue which makes me think that they did omit this feature on the 1/4" version since it is shown only on the 3/8" and 1/2" versions on their catalogue.

1/2" version:



3/8" version:



1/4" version notably missing the "feature":

The 1/4 version does seem different. Apparently its round instead of oval. Not sure about center retention.
ChrisCas mentions this in a video where he highlights the KTC version, which im also loving. Seems like a similar design to the Tone.

Here:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

With the caveat, again, that I know nothing about modern tools, it is odd that so many vintage mfgrs who included the feature on larger drive sizes skipped it on midget drive. I'm wondering if they found it unnecessary (i.e., keeping a sliding tee handle centered when spinning nuts is more manageable when it's only a few inches long vs. a foot long), a manufacturing concern (i.e., making and swaging this tiny ball into this head is going to be a complex and time consuming PITA), or a part integrity/point of failure concern (i.e., how much steel is even left after we mill it for a spring and detent ball and will it break?) or some combination of all three.

 

[d42jeep]

All of my Plomb 1/4” drive Sliding Tees have the centering groove as do some Walden Worchester Tees.
-Don

 

[Steve_P]

Proto 4785 is a 1/4" sliding T with center detent.
Makes for a handy tool in your motorcycle kit, or with various length extensions and bit set.

Well, I guess that's the answer if you want to buy something new. A few years ago I looked at Proto, including their useless website, and couldn't find a picture where I could tell, and it wasn't mentioned in the description. I guess I'll have to put that on the list for a future zoro order .

 

[KnurledNut]

OP reporting back...
So I ended up patiently waiting for a Craftsman to show up on eBay at a bargain price I was willing to pay. I finally scored.
As it usually goes, not long after that I came across a used Proto in person for a buck. Oh well.

If anyone else is looking for one of these, the vintage ones are a viable option. Its a timeless design. However, for some reason beyond my knowledge, they seem to fetch a premium on eBay.
I will say, this is one tool Craftsman did right. Socket retention is strong, center position holds well, and the bar is beefy which is better on my hands. The Proto is great too, but I dont find the thin bar as comfortable.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions and pictures.

 

[tool_scrounge]

OP reporting back...
So I ended up patiently waiting for a Craftsman to show up on eBay at a bargain price I was willing to pay. I finally scored.
As it usually goes, not long after that I came across a used Proto in person for a buck. Oh well.

so the key question is: Did you you buy the Proto one?

Please note that the answer “No, because I am ready had ONE” is viewed dimly by the majority here on the GJ and can lead to public shaming or banishment.

 

[KnurledNut]

so the key question is: Did you you buy the Proto one?

Please note that the answer “No, because I am ready had ONE” is viewed dimly by the majority here on the GJ and can lead to public shaming or banishment.

Ease your mind...I did the right thing.

 

[dnschmidt]

Oddly TOPTUL does the same thing. The 3/8" and 1/2" have the groove and it works great. No groove on the 1/4" which in Asia is a preferred drive size. I would have bought a box of them if they would have had the groove.

 

[DIYNY]

Armstrong 10-938 has centering groove too. Saw brand new on ebay for $14.