Charge your cordless tool batteries via USB-C?

[Lucid Moments]

An interesting article I found. Great idea if it takes off.

USB Type-C finally shows up in power tools, fulfills its destiny as the One True Port

DeWalt and Ryobi have both announced removable batteries for their tools powered by USB Type-C. Read on to find out more.

www.xda-developers.com

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

USB is 5volt. I'd be careful about where I'd plug that in trying to charge most tool batteries.

 

[Vercingetorix]

M12™ Compact Charger and Power Source | Milwaukee Tool

MILWAUKEE® M12™ Compact Charger and Power Source provides convenient, on-the-go charging for all M12™ Batteries both on and off the jobsite

www.milwaukeetool.com

 

[Nosferatu]

I've been hoping for something like this for charging from my solar panels with the truck camper.

 

[TobeyA]

USB is 5volt. I'd be careful about where I'd plug that in trying to charge most tool batteries.

The charging circuit would probably be wired to the cells in parallel instead of series.

 

[kelpaso1]

Why put the abuse or your laptop to charge. You already have power so use the right charger.

 

[Viper98912]

The latest version of USB-C with power delivery has the ability to charge 20V @ 5 amps. So if battery manufacturers start going this way, that'd be amazing. No more endless cables. I really hope everyone starts going this way rather than having 100 different charging cables for everything.

 

[Nosferatu]

Why put the abuse or your laptop to charge. You already have power so use the right charger.

What does this have to do with a laptop?

 

[Shiftless]

The latest version of USB-C with power delivery has the ability to charge 20V @ 5 amps. So if battery manufacturers start going this way, that'd be amazing. No more endless cables. I really hope everyone starts going this way rather than having 100 different charging cables for everything.

If it’s USB, don’t you mean 20 amps at 5 volts ????

 

[Nosferatu]

What I'd like to see next is a USB-C charge port built right into the battery.

 

[Lucid Moments]

Why put the abuse or your laptop to charge. You already have power so use the right charger.

I wouldn't do it with my laptop, but I sure could use the phone charger in my truck to do it.

 

[GeoBruin]

If it’s USB, don’t you mean 20 amps at 5 volts ????

No. He said what me meant. Read up on the USB-C Power Delivery standard.

 

[Lucid Moments]

What does this have to do with a laptop?

The article does mention that you could use your laptop to charge a battery if you needed/wanted to. Why anybody would do that is beyond me, but it would be possible.

 

[Nosferatu]

The article does mention that you could use your laptop to charge a battery if you needed/wanted to. Why anybody would do that is beyond me, but it would be possible.

Ah, gotcha, not what I would have in mind for this. Tool batteries have a single purpose to me...to power tools. I could see some using it for other things, but I personally have other and better ways of handling those tasks. On the contrary, recharging a tool battery using a laptop seems ridiculous as well. It seems akin to siphoning fuel from one car to put in the other when stranded on the highway.

I look forward to having a compact, portable way to charge my Dewalt batteries on the go when no 120v power is available.

 

[GeoBruin]

Ah, gotcha, not what I would have in mind for this. Tool batteries have a single purpose to me...to power tools. I could see some using it for other things, but I personally have other and better ways of handling those tasks. On the contrary, recharging a tool battery using a laptop seems ridiculous as well. It seems akin to siphoning fuel from one car to put in the other when stranded on the highway.

I look forward to having a compact, portable way to charge my Dewalt batteries on the go when no 120v power is available.

Your whole post baffles me. Yes, we buy batteries for tools, but many of us own hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of the highest energy density, highest discharge rate energy sources commercially available. Why wouldn't you want to leverage them to charge all the other things in your life that use battery power? Phones, laptops, headphones, watches, razors, toothbrushes, and so many other things these days that run on lithium ion batteries can all be charged with those dense energy bricks we all have in our shops. What are these "better ways" you have of of powering devices? Do you carry a gas generator with you?

As for having a way to "charge your Dewalt batteries on the go", the batteries themselves are the things you charge when you're on the go. They are literally a vehicle for storing energy generated by some other means to take with you so you can use it wherever you are.

 

[Nosferatu]

Your whole post baffles me. Yes, we buy batteries for tools, but many of us own hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of the highest energy density, highest discharge rate energy sources commercially available. Why wouldn't you want to leverage them to charge all the other things in your life that use battery power? Phones, laptops, headphones, watches, razors, toothbrushes, and so many other things these days that run on lithium ion batteries can all be charged with those dense energy bricks we all have in our shops. What are these "better ways" you have of of powering devices? Do you carry a gas generator with you?

As for having a way to "charge your Dewalt batteries on the go", the batteries themselves are the things you charge when you're on the go. They are literally a vehicle for storing energy generated by some other means to take with you so you can use it wherever you are.

Que?

Being able to charge my Dewalt batteries using my existing USB-C sources is the point (vehicle or solar, primarily). The rest of your post baffles ME!

If I discharge my Dewalt battery on something else, that means I no longer have that battery to power my Dewalt tools. That's the only point of having those batteries with me.

If I need to power a phone or laptop, I use my portable lithium battery with a built-in inverter.

Different tools for different tasks.

 

[Viper98912]

If it’s USB, don’t you mean 20 amps at 5 volts ????

No - 20V, 5 amps. And a few different variations of 100W in general. USB-C has some very interesting prospects.

 

[Citation]

Never a bad thing to have options for charging your tools. I don't think I would use it much but I can absolutely see it being useful if I were working out of a car/tractor where I may need to recharge. Additionally, a USB charger and cord is more compact than a typical tool battery charger.

However, I also see frustrations. The article shows a USB to battery adapter vs a USB-C port on the battery itself. That means I have to remember to bring that part or I can't charge.

I think the bigger headache is the USB-C standard itself. With say, micro USB, (that lousy plug that was easy to break yet had to be plugged in just one way) if the cord fit, it would charge. That's not at all true with USB-C. Not all USB-C power ports will provide the full range of voltages the standard allows for. Thus my laptop charger will charge my phone (presumably 5V) but my phone charger will not charge the laptop (presumably 20V). Many cars are starting to come with USB-C ports in the dash for charging. That's great... when my battery starts to die I'll just plug into my car... oh wait. I forgot that USB-C to battery adapter thing... and even if I didn't the car's charge port is likely limited to 5V or 9V but not 20V capable. Most 12V power plug are also likely to not support 20V output.

 

[mike93lx]

9v usb has existed for a while, so the default of usb only being 5v hasn't been true for quite some time.

Regardless, input voltage doesn't matter anyway. Just the same as you can charge a 18v tool battery off a 12v or 120v or 240v plug.

I want one of the dewalt setups, but the kit looks like it will be $110-120. I don't want one that bad just yet

 

[tez929rr]

If it means we can stay with a charge cable for a while, I’m in. In the last ten years iPads have gone from the 32 pin to the lightning to now USB-C. We have multiple head charging cables in our emergency vehicles and I just replaced the first generation ones (32 pin, mini and micro USB and lightning) with newer ones with micro USB, lightning, and USB-C. The pile of old charging cables in that one drawer that everyone has just got bigger.

 

[will335i]

Yea my hats off to the UK for forcing all phone manufacturers to use the same charging connection. I wish we could get on board with that here in the US. It is really nice seeing how popular USB-C is getting and being able to reduce the number of cables lying around that only work for one thing.

I think the bigger headache is the USB-C standard itself. With say, micro USB, (that lousy plug that was easy to break yet had to be plugged in just one way) if the cord fit, it would charge. That's not at all true with USB-C. Not all USB-C power ports will provide the full range of voltages the standard allows for. Thus my laptop charger will charge my phone (presumably 5V) but my phone charger will not charge the laptop (presumably 20V). Many cars are starting to come with USB-C ports in the dash for charging. That's great... when my battery starts to die I'll just plug into my car... oh wait. I forgot that USB-C to battery adapter thing... and even if I didn't the car's charge port is likely limited to 5V or 9V but not 20V capable. Most 12V power plug are also likely to not support 20V output.

This has nothing to do with USB-C and everything to what is between the USB-C connection and the wall. The little white blocks(assume apple product) the cable is plugged into are usually something like 5V 2-4amp out or 10 to 20W whereas the block you laptop cable is attached to have a much higher output like 65W is the case of my work laptop. This would be true for any connection type, just because it has the same connection doesn't mean it will charge/power the device. The transformer or buck converter that the cable is attached to must have the minimum required power output for it to work.

 

[dstblj52]

Que?

Being able to charge my Dewalt batteries using my existing USB-C sources is the point (vehicle or solar, primarily). The rest of your post baffles ME!

If I discharge my Dewalt battery on something else, that means I no longer have that battery to power my Dewalt tools. That's the only point of having those batteries with me.

If I need to power a phone or laptop, I use my portable lithium battery with a built-in inverter.

Different tools for different tasks.

I'm looking forward to this as a field engineer we run Dewalt stuff and it means I can just grab a battery from the charging station and recharge my laptop, I'm no longer stuck trying to work where ever the charging station is

 

[F-22]

I think they might introduce this in some separate battery model, but I don't see it coming to all batteries.

It's just not really that useful to most people in a professional setting. Besides, it will add a bit of cost to the battery, it will add a hole to it for dust to get in, or a potential failure point to the battery case due to the extra hole, or extra weight if it will be properly reinforced...
And in the end, if you buy it solely to power a power tool, it's just unnecessary.

 

[theoldwizard1]

No - 20V, 5 amps. And a few different variations of 100W in general. USB-C has some very interesting prospects.

That is the MAXIMUM and it requires a special cable (standard USB-C cables can only do 3A).

The charging standard (USB Power Delivery) has a lot of "loopholes" ! Typically, any USB-C device should be able to deliver 5V@3A. After that, the "source" and the "load" NEGOTIATE what can he delivered (I want 20V@5A. No can do ! How about 20V@3A ? OK !). Because of the special cable requirements most "wall warts" only deliver 60W.

You MUST have USB-C connectors on each end as the negotiation happens on separate wires.

 

[mv213]

USB is 5volt. I'd be careful about where I'd plug that in trying to charge most tool batteries.

Not true anymore. USB-C PD (Power Delivery) can charge a range of voltages currently up to 20v and 100W. Great technology. https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/explore-the-basics-of-usb-c-and-usb-power-delivery#:~:text=The USB Power Delivery standard,levels up to 100 W.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What does this have to do with a laptop?

I'll bet more laptops are sold than battery power tools

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not true anymore. USB-C PD (Power Delivery) can charge a range of voltages currently up to 20v and 100W. Great technology. https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/explore-the-basics-of-usb-c-and-usb-power-delivery#:~:text=The USB Power Delivery standard,levels up to 100 W.

The next version of USB PD allows tow "fine tuning" of the voltages.

The following version wants 5A at all voltages, but again, this requires a different cable.

 

[GeoBruin]

That is the MAXIMUM and it requires a special cable (standard USB-C cables can only do 3A).

The charging standard (USB Power Delivery) has a lot of "loopholes" ! Typically, any USB-C device should be able to deliver 5V@3A. After that, the "source" and the "load" NEGOTIATE what can he delivered (I want 20V@5A. No can do ! How about 20V@3A ? OK !). Because of the special cable requirements most "wall warts" only deliver 60W.

You MUST have USB-C connectors on each end as the negotiation happens on separate wires.

There is no such thing as a "standard" USB cable. That's like saying a "standard" air hose or a "standard" extension cord. All USB cables have ratings for the amount of power and type of data they can carry.

Also, I the USB - PD 3.0 standard used for this Dewalt device is not even the newest protocol. An updated 3.1 specification will allow for even higher amperage and voltage combination up to 240 watts. And yes, like all USB applications, you will need to match the cable to the need.

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[Walkers]

I put a small inverter in my pick up. It has enough watts to run my tool battery chargers, and a few other odd things that I need AC power for. I do have a welding generator in the bed, but I hate running it to charge a battery. The inverter has proved handier than expected.

 

[honcho]

Milwaukee has an M12 single battery charger / power supply that will charge M12 batteries via 5V USB into a micro-usb connector. It's one of my favorite M12 items and I carry with me all the time as it makes a great little USB powerbank for charging phones and tablets. It has a micro USB connector for charging an inserted battery. It has a USB-A connector to provide power. It also has a coaxial power connector for a barrel plug which, I believe is to use with Milwaukee heated clothing items.

USB-C PD will supply 5V, 9V and 20V up to 100 or more watts in various versions of the specification. with computer equipment, USB C connections can deliver video, audio, ethernet and power. Pretty amazing how seamless it works.

 

[ybnormal]

Que?

Being able to charge my Dewalt batteries using my existing USB-C sources is the point (vehicle or solar, primarily). The rest of your post baffles ME!

If I discharge my Dewalt battery on something else, that means I no longer have that battery to power my Dewalt tools. That's the only point of having those batteries with me.

If I need to power a phone or laptop, I use my portable lithium battery with a built-in inverter.

Different tools for different tasks.

Having the USB-C comes in handy and I can think of several uses for it.

1) use the battery and USB-C cable to quickly charge my cell phone enough (if it's close to dead in a weak cell phone coverage area) so I can make a phone call (this has happened to me)

2) I goto junkyards where they don't let you carry in certain powered items. if I want to pull some electric power seats I have to find a way to move those seats to reach the hold-down bolts on the seat tracks since they don't let you take car batteries into the yard. we've managed to get around that by using speaker wire stripped from a car, pulling a tool battery, then applying power from the battery to the circuit which then allows us to move the seat, but it's a PITA. I can see having a special built long USB-C cable with a switch that I just plug into the battery and then apply to the circuit in the car

 

[theoldwizard1]

There is no such thing as a "standard" USB cable. That's like saying a "standard" air hose or a "standard" extension cord. All USB cables have ratings for the amount of power and type of data they can carry.

Well. "typical", would have been a better word !

A typical USB cable can carry 3A. The VOLTAGE depends on what is negotiated between the source and the load. If the cord uses anything other than USB-C on both ends you can not get more than 5V and probably less than 3A.

 

[theoldwizard1]

USB-C PD will supply 5V, 9V and 20V up to 100 or more watts in various versions of the specification. with computer equipment, USB C connections can deliver video, audio, ethernet and power. Pretty amazing how seamless it works.

You missed 15V. Not every USB-C power source will do all voltages and most will only do 3A at each voltage.

The good news is, if you plug any USB device into another USB device, IT WILL WORK ! Maybe not at full speed or maximum power delivery, but it will transfer data and power.

 

[Viper98912]

That is the MAXIMUM and it requires a special cable (standard USB-C cables can only do 3A).

The charging standard (USB Power Delivery) has a lot of "loopholes" ! Typically, any USB-C device should be able to deliver 5V@3A. After that, the "source" and the "load" NEGOTIATE what can he delivered (I want 20V@5A. No can do ! How about 20V@3A ? OK !). Because of the special cable requirements most "wall warts" only deliver 60W.

You MUST have USB-C connectors on each end as the negotiation happens on separate wires.

You seem determined to "fight" this new technology. Go ahead. Like I said, there's a lot of interesting prospects for it. Is it perfect right now? Is everything working at 100W or 240W or whatever it may be with varying voltages? Of course not. But there's a future with it, and hopefully it gets widely adopted and makes things just a "little" bit easier where we're not digging for our 37th cable that we lost. Nothing will be perfect.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You seem determined to "fight" this new technology.

On the contrary, USB-C and USB PD are the best thing that has happened in higher speed wired communication and power delivery ! I am just warning people that "you can't always get what you want, but if you try real hard, you'll get what you need !"

 

[Citation]

This has nothing to do with USB-C and everything to what is between the USB-C connection and the wall. The little white blocks(assume apple product) the cable is plugged into are usually something like 5V 2-4amp out or 10 to 20W whereas the block you laptop cable is attached to have a much higher output like 65W is the case of my work laptop. This would be true for any connection type, just because it has the same connection doesn't mean it will charge/power the device. The transformer or buck converter that the cable is attached to must have the minimum required power output for it to work.

You are correct that, in that case, I'm talking about issues with the power supply. However that does have to do with USB-C since USB-C is a standard for not only the connector but what's driving that connector. In thinking about your reply, you might be thinking about cases where the brick has an attached cable. I was thinking about cases where the brick has a USB-C female plug. My laptop came with the former but I normally use the latter when traveling with it. The issue is still the same, you have a power supply with a USB-C output but it's not always apparent what parts of the full standard that particular outlet will support.

Don't get me wrong, I think USB-C is a nice step in the correct direction but it's not perfect. In the past USB was largely, "if it fits, it works". USB-C isn't that way as my phone charger can't charge my laptop despite mechanically connecting. While my laptop will charge if I combine my laptop brick with my phone's USB-C cable, it won't dock with my USB-C doc unless I use the higher standard USB-C cable.

Like I said, it's better than what we had but we aren't in universal standard land yet.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Like I said, it's better than what we had but we aren't in universal standard land yet.

People got greedy ! If they had never added the optional 5A charge rate everything would have been fine !!

 

[will335i]

@Citation yea I was a little over zealous and generalized too much. You are absolutely correct that the cable will pose some restrictions since the gage wire used will dictate the amount of current it can carry. Which also means there's likely some pin structure based on the cable rating to prevent too high of a load being transmitted over the cable and creating a fire hazard.

 

[haveissues]

Yea my hats off to the UK for forcing all phone manufacturers to use the same charging connection. I wish we could get on board with that here in the US. It is really nice seeing how popular USB-C is getting and being able to reduce the number of cables lying around that only work for one thing.



This has nothing to do with USB-C and everything to what is between the USB-C connection and the wall. The little white blocks(assume apple product) the cable is plugged into are usually something like 5V 2-4amp out or 10 to 20W whereas the block you laptop cable is attached to have a much higher output like 65W is the case of my work laptop. This would be true for any connection type, just because it has the same connection doesn't mean it will charge/power the device. The transformer or buck converter that the cable is attached to must have the minimum required power output for it to work.

It's really easy to avoid phones with proprietary connectors at this point-just don't buy an iphone. Everything else is usb c with the exception of maybe some really low end phones although I have not seen one.

 

[haveissues]

Usb c is great! We keep a few power adapters that can do PD plugged in around the house and can charge everything. Our phones, kid's tablets, kids chromebooks, our laptops, kid's switch. Just about everything is usb c. No more proprietary laptop charges that are not only brand specific but model specific in many cases.