Military?

[elidas]

Trying to identify a 6 inch rotating grip extension. The only thing on it is: 41-b-30.200 Is this a military marking? Thanks Mike

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It is not military, per se. It is a Federal Stock Number that was in use from 1934 to 1953. The Treasure Dept was administering the Federal Standard Stock Catalog during that time, and yes, the military technical services were the largest customers. But not the only customers. Very likely military, and very likely wartime, especially if it's not chromed.

If you're not wedded to keeping it, I am putting dibs in for it right now. I have a longer one with the FSN 41-B-311-500.

Re-check the FSN. Are you sure it's not 41-B-311-200?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Does it look like a shorter version of this one?

 

[elidas]

Yes!! It is 41-b-311.200 The tool had some grunge on just the right spot to make it look like a 0

 

[elidas]

Yes, a shorter version.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes, a shorter version.

Terrific find, Mike!

Here is a manual reference for you.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Mike's wartime 1/2-inch drive 5" extension with rotating grip (41-B-311-200) has been united with much gratitude with its bigger brother, a 9" extension with rotating grip (41-B-311-500), in the Lugzsonian.

 

[d42jeep]

My rotating grip doesn’t rotate. Must have had a hard life.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yikes. That's a shame, Don. Since I'm sure you've tried soaking it, and it looks like it was used as a punch, I suspect the problem is physical. Something got jammed up.

 

[Sumboodie]

Interesting.

I'm only familiar with stock numbers like 1325-00-585-3841

 

[Private Lugnutz]

This system was in place between 1934 and 1952, just before the format you are used to, and administered by the Treasure Dept. The old hand tools class ("41") became "5120" in the 11-digit FSN, around 1953, when it started to be administered by federal logistics agencies. That "00" in your 13-digit NSN example was a placeholder for a COO code.

 

[thehorse13]

Mike's wartime 1/2-inch drive 5" extension with rotating grip (41-B-311-200) has been united with much gratitude with its bigger brother, a 9" extension with rotating grip (41-B-311-500), in the Lugzsonian.

I love seeing reunions like this. Hopefully the Lugzsonian has enough physical real estate to continue this sort of thing for years to come.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Sonny. It is satisfying. Now if we could only figure out the OEM for these unbranded buggers. I seem to recall proffering APCO-Mossberg, Snap-on, and Williams and neither of them working out exactly right. I'll have to put that on the to-do list.

 

[thehorse13]

Thanks, Sonny. It is satisfying. Now if we could only figure out the OEM for these unbranded buggers. I seem to recall proffering APCO-Mossberg, Snap-on, and Williams and neither of them working out exactly right. I'll have to put that on the to-do list.

The first look at it reminded me of Blackhawk. The extension looks really close to their designs of the era.

 

[elidas]

Mike's wartime 1/2-inch drive 5" extension with rotating grip (41-B-311-200) has been united with much gratitude with its bigger brother, a 9" extension with rotating grip (41-B-311-500), in the Lugzsonian.

Family reunion!!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

From the top, bonney, snapon, two blackhawk and the bottom is williams. Does not quite match any of them.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nope. When I first posted mine I was thinking Snappy or Williams but no.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Could be made by a company that never sold them to the public. Non catalog item.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

This is one that came with some walden tools

 

[Ricky Joe]

I never understood the value of these. When would you want to use one that would be more advantageous than a regular extension? It seems to me that the sleeve would be a hindrance.

 

[RoninB4]

Terrific find, Mike!

Here is a manual reference for you.

-I'd like to say that you have surprised me with your posts in several threads Private. May I ask what the source is for your considerable data and experience? I was in the Air Force (Chair Force....) and they didn't allow us to handle high tech items like that in the Aerospace Clinic (medical squadron) without supervision.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I never understood the value of these. When would you want to use one that would be more advantageous than a regular extension? It seems to me that the sleeve would be a hindrance.

I don't think they're meant to improve any particular situation, RJ, but any or all of them. With a regular extension, you have to let go, ever so slightly, to allow the extension to spin loosely between the fingers and palm of your hand. With a rotating grip, you don't. Same with speeders with and without rotating grips.

I'm in the opposite camp. I find it surprising that once someone made one with them (and no, I don't know who the first to do that was) that they ever came without them.

May I ask what the source is for your considerable data...?

The Internet Archive International Tool Catalog Library, and this library...

 

[Ricky Joe]

I don't think they're meant to improve any particular situation, RJ, but any or all of them. With a regular extension, you have to let go, ever so slightly, to allow the extension to spin loosely between the fingers and palm of your hand. With a rotating grip, you don't. Same with speeders with and without rotating grips.

I'm in the opposite camp. I find it surprising that once someone made one with them (and no, I don't know who the first to do that was) that they ever came without them.

The Internet Archive International Tool Catalog Library, and this library...

When using an extension with the sleeve, it seems to me that the ratchet would just oscillate. Without the sleeve you can grip the extension and hold it still while the ratchet gets another bite.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

If you mean it would turn back on the backstroke with no resistance (a completely loose fastener), that's true.

 

[Dave455]

I never understood the value of these. When would you want to use one that would be more advantageous than a regular extension? It seems to me that the sleeve would be a hindrance.

They’re fantastic tools. Designed to be used with a Sliding T, not a ratchet.

Hold the tool in one hand, spin with the other. No quicker way to remove a relatively free turning fastener.

I have some beautiful examples by Blackhawk, but few modern manufacturers can be bothered.

KoKen offer this interesting variant in 3/8“ drive, with a T bar incorporated.

 

[RoninB4]

They’re fantastic tools. Designed to be used with a Sliding T, not a ratchet.

Hold the tool in one hand, spin with the other. No quicker way to remove a relatively free turning fastener.

I have some beautiful examples by Blackhawk, but few modern manufacturers can be bothered.

KoKen offer this interesting variant in 3/8“ drive, with a T bar incorporated.

-I use(d) a variation of this a lot during mold/die assembly and dis-assembly. Seating precision fit components often want all fasteners lightly torqued evenly, like the caps on a camshaft or a mold insert. At home I often use a speed handle on lug nuts for easier on/off. Plenty of tactile feedback to avoid cross threading a fastener when done with hand tools. Powered drivers offer zero feedback. JMO

 

[thehorse13]

I never understood the value of these. When would you want to use one that would be more advantageous than a regular extension? It seems to me that the sleeve would be a hindrance.

A buddy of mine swears by these sleeve extensions when spinning the nuts on a flat head Ford motor. Modern day, I have used them for fun when taking wheels off/on of my vehicles.

 

[elidas]

I picked up a pile of Milwaukee Tool and Forge stuff today. (pictures later) and went to Alloy Artifacts to try and date them. They also made a rotating grip extension that looks real close to the one pictured. I thought MTF was long gone by WW2 but when did they start using that particular number system?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I thought MTF was long gone by WW2 but when did they start using that particular number system?

1934.

 

[Cruzan80]

Reposted from the GS thread...

I had messaged Pvt Lugz about the spinning extension, and he clued me in to a thread about them, where is seems like the maker is unknown. Spinning extension is 41-B-311-200. However, the larger extension that I got looks almost identical, and it is marked 41-B-309-1/2. And it has a makers mark! Both have an uneven grind by the transition from the female to the rod portion, so I have turned them so they match (spinner on left). Both show a bevel on the male ends, to break the "square". And the marking on the extension very clearly is... Mossberg! <M>. What says the rest of you? Do we have a winner?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They are a well-known bona fide supplier of the extensions without the rotating grip, that's for sure. Here are some of mine. They're all cruder than mine with the rotating grip, but it's certainly possible. EDIT: Adding a reference I have posted before in other GMTK-related threads.

 

[Cruzan80]

For my two, it is more the same wear patterns on the top of each being identical. Both are Cad plated, whereas yours seem to look more black iron-ish? But I may also be seeing coincedence where none exists.