I bought this pliers set back in 1982 from Channel Lumber and I recall them being cheap in price for even back then. I used them in the early 1980s and then put them away when I upgraded to Channellock. Looking at the back of them they are all stamped "Drop Forged" China. To be honest they feel as heavy as something from Channellock brand and seem to be decent quality for what they cost. Was the quality of Chinese tools any better back then? Or are these really just as junky as most of the stuff they put out today.
Was there a time China made a decent hand tool?
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richfinn
Well-known member
I always think that if China can build cars/trains/aircraft and spacecraft, somewhere at least they have access to decent quality tools.
The mistake we make in the West is assuming that the stuff they export under contract (for Western Companies) is the best of what they produce.
The mistake we make in the West is assuming that the stuff they export under contract (for Western Companies) is the best of what they produce.
I mean… I have modern day Chinese tools that are comparable in quality if not better than some of the USA stuff I have.
The last time I bought Channellock pliers, they were so poorly finished and crappy looking, I returned them to Menard’s and bought their Masterforce brand. Couldn’t be happier. They are a real gem for the price.
I have sets of auto parts store China made screwdrivers that perform better and fit fasteners better than my Craftsman USA’s and SK’s.
The last time I bought Channellock pliers, they were so poorly finished and crappy looking, I returned them to Menard’s and bought their Masterforce brand. Couldn’t be happier. They are a real gem for the price.
I have sets of auto parts store China made screwdrivers that perform better and fit fasteners better than my Craftsman USA’s and SK’s.
Orangina
Well-known member
Sorry, I think it is foolish to dangerous to underestimate China today.
They have built up a lot of know-how in the last decades or simply bought high tech production and robot companies.
Many well-known companies have their know-how manufactured there more cheaply in modern plants, while their own become outdated.
You can hardly accuse them of poor quality these days, unless at the required cheap prices.
And if the price is made by a known brand but made in China, only some of the cost are used for production - and not China is to blame for this quality at the end.
Our competitive advantage here (in the Western world) is shrinking...
US trade deficit is at record high - so are China supporting loans for the US
They have built up a lot of know-how in the last decades or simply bought high tech production and robot companies.
Many well-known companies have their know-how manufactured there more cheaply in modern plants, while their own become outdated.
You can hardly accuse them of poor quality these days, unless at the required cheap prices.
And if the price is made by a known brand but made in China, only some of the cost are used for production - and not China is to blame for this quality at the end.
Our competitive advantage here (in the Western world) is shrinking...
US trade deficit is at record high - so are China supporting loans for the US
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rooster59
Well-known member
China is capable of making tools to whatever quality is required. They can alloy, forge, heat-treat, and finish with anyone today. But when a company contracts with them and says too expensive, make it cheaper, corners will be cut.
finn
Well-known member
Using coo as an indicator of quality is foolish and myopic.
My Apple tablet is made in China, and is of remarkably high quality.
They have a space program, and much of the medical equipment at your local hospital, equipment that your life will depend on some day, is made there.
My Apple tablet is made in China, and is of remarkably high quality.
They have a space program, and much of the medical equipment at your local hospital, equipment that your life will depend on some day, is made there.
I wasn't trolling but I understand most believe Taiwanese tools have some good quality stuff and I have some myself. Chinese tools are usually trashed but these seem to be decent quality and they were inexpensive. I just wondered if things were different 40 years ago.Interesting twist for a troll thread.
"ah, the good old days of high Chinese quality!"
theoldwizard1
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I will add, it is the purchasing company's responsibility to monitor quality control (a.k.a. quality assurance) and do "incoming material" inspection and testing.
Finding suppliers of good quality raw materials is also a challenge.
You can indeed get anything at any level of quality in China...BUT you must provide your own qa/qc at source. Since Chinese is a contextural language, the same written or spoken words can and will change from day to day, so what says "SAE 4130 with mill spec sheet attached" may well start out as that, but over time will drift to something else with a forged mill spec sheet because it allows someone to make more money while sort-of making what it said they were supposed to make. A good part of the problem is the WalMarts of this world who have been there for 30 years, chiselling, cheating and trying to screw over suppliers and giving China a pretty nasty (and accurate) opinion of their North American customers. We should not be surprised when Chinese suppliers try to treat us in the same way.
Al Borland
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And if they want high quality, but fail to ensure quality control through CONSTANT monitoring, well, the Chinese supplier will revert to cheap. Just like anyone else these days.
I had a Chinese made set of combination wrenches I bought cheap in the late 70's or early 80's that were crude but effective. It was the only wrenches I had for quite some time. Always fit and never broke. I got my money's worth out of them before sending them off to auction.
I guess you forgot to tell Snap-On you can’t make lifetime tools and be profitable.
Worth every penny to me and I don’t turn wrenches everyday. You are paying more for a lot of reasons mainly being the use of American labor. Don’t you want your fellow Americans to be able to feed their families.
Yes China is capable of making high quality anything but they make more money making disposable junk.
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
The average Snap on customer usually goes with Snap on because of customer service, brand prestige, and how effective their marketing is. Buying American is probably the 5th reason or lower on the list. There are other USA made options out there that aren't as overpriced for those whose primary reason is buying American.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Are all of the Indian made tools showing up making you long for PRC made tools 
I guess it depends on what your definition of decent is but, SATA currently makes decent tools in their PRC factory sold under Husky and other names.
I guess it depends on what your definition of decent is but, SATA currently makes decent tools in their PRC factory sold under Husky and other names.
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
Made in China tools have come a long way since China started mass manufacturing for export. Granted, some junk bin quality tools are still coming out of China, but price points up to mid price range are now being covered. Those made in China sockets and wrenches found in big box stores these days are usually at least half way decent. That being said, the attitude towards quality control and intellectual property is still an issue. Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have all gotten past the point where they realized that if they don't take quality control seriously, their products will not be competitive due to rising production costs. Anyone can make an up to standard product when there aren't cost pressures. It's those who can build to cost while having minimal quality control issues that have a competitive edge. Copying someone else's technology and products is also a dead end. Anyone can produce pirated goods. It will be interesting to see how much tool production moves from China to Vietnam in the coming years.
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Making a blanket-statement that todays Chinese tools are "junky" kind of hints to that.
IMO the other pliers in your image look a bit rough finished and not perfectly aligned. Maybe they work just fine, which is the name of the game.
I have Chinese tools that are well finished, accurate and hold up great. Not sure whet else I should expect from them.
I've had some that were total ****, but they initially looked, felt and performed like **** and priced at near nothing.
The notion that todays China tools are worse than in decades past, just seems a bit silly, IMO.
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
I guess you have never heard of the completely unusable "steel" being manufactured in China in communal furnaces during the Mao era just so China can pretend they hit their 5 year plan steel production targets. That's the kind of starting point China was at when it started transitioning towards state capitalism and exporting manufactured goods.
I honestly don't understand your rant, relating to this thread.
I made my opinion that their tools are better today.
During that time you mention, their most kickass form of transportation was the bicycle. Now they are the world manufacturing leader in most everything.
Do you think it is the other way around?
Professional Tool User
Well-known member
My bad. I misread the last sentence of your post.I honestly don't understand your rant, relating to this thread.
I made my opinion that their tools are better today.
During that time you mention, their most kickass form of transportation was the bicycle. Now they are the world manufacturing leader in most everything.
Do you think it is the other way around?
yatg
Well-known member
Some decent stuff came out of Taiwan, and Taiwan is part of China, maybe ... depends on who you ask and what day of the week it is.
orangeblood
Well-known member
China excells in reverse engineering and manufacturing at the lowest possible value in the specification range.
Design and innovation are not Chinese core competencies.
Just my $0.02
Design and innovation are not Chinese core competencies.
Just my $0.02
Average wage for factory workers at Snap-On is $18.47/hr. Better have a small family and live in your parents' basement.
That is probably more than the weekly pay of a factory worker in a Chinese factory.
Maybe, but we don't live in China.
Average factory worker in China makes about $285/week, or about 1/2 that of an American worker (after taxes, SS, etc). Foreman and supervisors make 2-3x that amount. The middle class is growing fast in China.
NOBODY in China reports their actual earnings. This is why traditional economic analysis based on government records are wildly inaccurate. It is one of the HUGE barriers to Chinese immigration into Canada. If you want to use the immigrant entrerpreneur route (fastest) you have to be able to document and prove your source of wealth - that very few Chinese can or will do. Price out a condo in Shenzhen or Guangzhou and tell me you think you can afford that on $20 a week.
Oh: forgot that many of the basic costs of living there are either heavily subsidized or price controlled (thus why most transactions take place off the books) greatly distorts numbers.
I worked with Chinese factories a few decades ago and the factory wage was more than 50 cents/hr even back then. $20/week is just a crazy number. Nowadays it is substantially higher and is actually forcing many industries to move to cheaper countries like Indonesia or India.
Interesting the quick shift from how ****** the mfg pay is in America, to how shittier it is in China.
Makes me feel much better already.
Back to the OP topic, the $8 set of HF PP screwdrivers, are my go-to and are some of the best screwdrivers I have ever used. Never a problem with any of them.
Makes me feel much better already.
Back to the OP topic, the $8 set of HF PP screwdrivers, are my go-to and are some of the best screwdrivers I have ever used. Never a problem with any of them.
jabberwoki
Well-known member
no
Used to work for a company that would outsource some parts to China. They were developing (coping) an electric liniar actuator for us. On a visit to the manufacturer we wanted to set up a cycle test, 1 million cycles. Got it ready to go and the guy says I’ll go get a counter. Came back with a guy and a chalkboard.
Last I checked, the average manufacturing worker's wage was something like $5/hour in China. At the time this was more than it was in Mexico. And this is why low cost items are now being manufactured in India, Vietnam..... Because China is too expensive.
Read this story about the Bay Bridge & their attempt to save money by fabricating parts in China. There are other stories about that debacle too.
www.americanmanufacturing.org
The Made-in-China Bay Bridge Continues to Cost California - Alliance for American Manufacturing
Wish we could say we were surprised. The decision to hire an inexperienced company from China to build key parts of the suspension span of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge will “haunt the new span and the traveling public for generations to come.” Those are the findings in a lengthy…
www.americanmanufacturing.org
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