Anyone identify this old breaker panel?

[Noltz]

I've bought a property outside of town with my first real, detached shop (yay!). Can anyone identify what kind of breakers these are? It's a 200A panel. Sorry for the bad picture, seems I forgot to take a real photo so this just came off my walk-through video. I have to confirm they're Siemens in the house and I'll probably try and find another for out here. This panel looks like it should have gone down with the Titanic.

Thanks!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Those white bodied breakers are classified aftermarket breakers. Judging by the size & twin handles my guess is Zinsco replacements... The panels are junk

 

[23ford]

Zinsco out of date unable to get parts except for a old one.

 

[Noltz]

Cool. Thanks!

 

[Norcal]

Since your Canada, looks to be Federal-Pioneer.

 

[rooster59]

I would update the smoke alarm

 

[Mzungu]

Definitely Federal Pioneer. Installed lots of these back in the day.

 

[nadogail]

Zinsco Breakers earned such a bad reputation among Electricians that they were not called Zinsco; but F**king Zinscos.

They were known for not opening and protecting the circuit and the Electrician working on it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Since your Canada, looks to be Federal-Pioneer.

whoops i missed that

Zinsco Breakers earned such a bad reputation among Electricians that they were not called Zinsco; but F**king Zinscos.

They were known for not opening and protecting the circuit and the Electrician working on it.

i prefer to call them Shitsco

 

[u2slow]

The panel decal says Stab-lok.... So yes Federal Pioneer.

 

[Noltz]

Beautiful. This forum is great; You guys see stuff and immediately know. Very much appreciate the experience. I've never seen one before, didn't know if it was even possible to use it as-is, but I've not yet taken possession of the building yet and Mrs Noltz will need me inside the house for a while yet.

Shop has 200A service but my meter is on a pole on the property, not on a building. I haven't determined if this is a main and the house (~200' away) is a sub or if / can the meter pan allows for two main panels?

I would update the smoke alarm

Whole shop is honestly pretty gross. But I'll make it shine again.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The panel decal says Stab-lok.... So yes Federal Pioneer.

whoops i missed that

 

[Sumboodie]

Was the shop a liquor or convivence store or something (breakers for soda coolers)

 

[Norcal]

The panel decal says Stab-lok.... So yes Federal Pioneer.

Just the handle design screamed FPE, & the colors meant Federal-Pioneer but still better then FPE, but if given the choice of Federal-Pioneer, or Eaton BR, I would vomit.

 

[u2slow]

I recognized the handles too... but figured I should point out something more concrete.

 

[Snip's]

This is a very helpful thread.... It caused me to look into two old subpanels used in my 1940's built home.... I was hopeful I could order new breakers with the thought I'd replace the old ones that had some miles on them with new... What I have are Federal Noark, that apparently use Stab-Lock breakers...

Did a search and came across this Link... Time to make a call to an electrician... I'm sure they will need to be totally upgraded....

Pic of what I have...

 

[The Cobbler]

according to an electrician I know well, he says that the Federal Pioneer panels in Canada are not the same as the bad firestarters in the US and are safe . I forget his reasoning .

 

[u2slow]

according to an electrician I know well, he says that the Federal Pioneer panels in Canada are not the same as the bad firestarters in the US and are safe . I forget his reasoning .

They are the same stabs and outward visual appearance... and I have personally found burnt busbars and non-tripping breakers (especially 15A).

That said, it was a Schneider brand (the QO guys) in later years. I was installing brand new Stab-lok panels as late at 2004. They were still considered a budget brand; but perhaps a better product since Schneider took over.

I'm on the fence really. I cringe a little when I see a panel full of the old black breakers vs the newer white ones.

Canadian house insurance co's have so far not been screening against particular panel brands - noted particulars being knob & tube, aluminum branch circuits, fuse panel vs breakers, and 100A minimum service.

 

[Norcal]

This is a very helpful thread.... It caused me to look into two old subpanels used in my 1940's built home.... I was hopeful I could order new breakers with the thought I'd replace the old ones that had some miles on them with new... What I have are Federal Noark, that apparently use Stab-Lock breakers...

Did a search and came across this Link... Time to make a call to an electrician... I'm sure they will need to be totally upgraded....

Pic of what I have...

That is a panel that predates the Stablok product line, just by age alone should be replaced, breakers are going to be very hard to find, and will be used & at a less then desirable price.

 

[sparky 1971]

Other than the colors, what is the difference between Federal Pioneer and Federal Pacific since they are both Stab-lok? I went out to install a circuit and receptacle for a range this afternoon. Got there and it had a FPE panel. Since it was the last house on a dead end street, I pulled the meter and did the worlds fastest panel change to a Homeline. Take note of yhe three pole 50. That was for the AC.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Other than the colors, what is the difference between Federal Pioneer and Federal Pacific since they are both Stab-lok? I went out to install a circuit and receptacle for a range this afternoon. Got there and it had a FPE panel. Since it was the last house on a dead end street, I pulled the meter and did the worlds fastest panel change to a Homeline. Take note of yhe three pole 50. That was for the AC.

a 3 pole breaker in a single phase panel? wtf

 

[Mzungu]

Other than the colors, what is the difference between Federal Pioneer and Federal Pacific since they are both Stab-lok? I went out to install a circuit and receptacle for a range this afternoon. Got there and it had a FPE panel. Since it was the last house on a dead end street, I pulled the meter and did the worlds fastest panel change to a Homeline. Take note of yhe three pole 50. That was for the AC.

No difference, Pioneer is just the Canadian brand name. We had the same problems up here with breakers not tripping when overloaded.

 

[Norcal]

a 3 pole breaker in a single phase panel? wtf

Expensive but what does it hurt? I don't recommend it & it wastes panel space but only using 2 of the 3 poles is not unsafe, other then it was a Fisher-Price Electric panel. BTW, it looks like Federal Electric is a successor to the Colt electrical products as shown in post #36 & the Hartford, Conn. address. Yes, Colt Firearms.

 

[sparky 1971]

a 3 pole breaker in a single phase panel? wtf

I didn't take a picture, but the meter socket was upside down too. That was a first for me.

 

[TRWham]

a 3 pole breaker in a single phase panel? wtf

Maybe they used all 3 poles to provide a common disconnect for the 240 V and 120 V branches for the HVAC? I know both are not always needed if heat pump or electric heat but usually are for gas heat.

 

[sparky 1971]

Maybe they used all 3 poles to provide a common disconnect for the 240 V and 120 V branches for the HVAC? I know both are not always needed if heat pump or electric heat but usually are for gas heat.

No. As I already stated, it was for the AC. If the furnace 120 volt had been hooked to that breaker, it would have been a 50 amp circuit.

 

[TRWham]

No. As I already stated, it was for the AC. If the furnace 120 volt had been hooked to that breaker, it would have been a 50 amp circuit.

Fair point.

 

[rawen2]

Sparky 1971, I'm not an electrician and wondering what's the significance of this sentence?

"Since it was the last house on a dead end street, I pulled the meter and did the worlds fastest panel change to a Homeline."

 

[sparky 1971]

Sparky 1971, I'm not an electrician and wondering what's the significance of this sentence?

"Since it was the last house on a dead end street, I pulled the meter and did the worlds fastest panel change to a Homeline."

The chances of getting caught changing a panel without a permit went down significantly. In other words, there isn't much of a chance of someone from the city or POCO driving by and noticing.

 

[yatg]

The chances of getting caught changing a panel without a permit went down significantly. In other words, there isn't much of a chance of someone from the city or POCO driving by and noticing.

But with smart meters, big brother is always watching.

 

[sparky 1971]

They don't have smart meters there, but there is a work around. Only pull the bottom of the meter, leaving the line side engaged. Then put a piece of thick cardboard in so the load side doesn't make contact. I learned that one from one of my former apprentices that is now a state inspector.

There are two jurisdictions that I won't do panel changes because of all the extra work required. That was in one of them, but it was for a friend

But with smart meters, big brother is always watching.

 

[yatg]

Only pull the bottom of the meter, leaving the line side engaged. Then put a piece of thick cardboard in so the load side doesn't make contact.

Twicky!

 

[Norcal]

Only done it twice with smart meters, one was a meter/main panel swap because it idiot(s) who installed it failed to use a gasket on a raintight hub causing problems with the aluminum bus, & the second was swapping the roof jack on the OH mast because the house was getting a new roof, not a peep from PG&E either time. It was hairy slipping the hot conductors through the top of the box on the first job.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ive done it once. pulled a Profit Gouge & Execute smart meter in chowchilla.

did my work as fast as i could and got out of there. no clue if their popo ever showed up

 

[u2slow]

But with smart meters, big brother is always watching.

There's a time and a place. I waited for a good long power outage to swap stuff over.

 

[sparky 1971]

I've only been caught once, and I didn't know it was a smart meter, I'd never even heard of one. Small REC in the middle of nowhere. Bad main on the pole. It only took about five minutes to change, but I'll be damned if two line crews didn't show up when I was putting the meter back in. They just happened to be at the closest neighbors about a mile away when the alarm went off. The older guy thought it was funny, but the 20 something with him wasn't amused.

Mid American Energy is the big POCO around here. I think it was 2011 when they started the we are the only qualified people to pull our meters BS. Since then, I've had at least five lineman out to pull a meter and those slobs are so busy bitching about how ridiculous it is that an electrician can't pull a meter that they don't realize they've dropped at least a dozen meter seals on the ground. Of course, I am all about not littering so like a good citizen, I pick them up and might have put them to good use. I may have even used one on the panel swap in question. No, they don't have smart meters.

 

[Norcal]

I've only been caught once, and I didn't know it was a smart meter, I'd never even heard of one. Small REC in the middle of nowhere. Bad main on the pole. It only took about five minutes to change, but I'll be damned if two line crews didn't show up when I was putting the meter back in. They just happened to be at the closest neighbors about a mile away when the alarm went off. The older guy thought it was funny, but the 20 something with him wasn't amused.

Mid American Energy is the big POCO around here. I think it was 2011 when they started the we are the only qualified people to pull our meters BS. Since then, I've had at least five lineman out to pull a meter and those slobs are so busy bitching about how ridiculous it is that an electrician can't pull a meter that they don't realize they've dropped at least a dozen meter seals on the ground. Of course, I am all about not littering so like a good citizen, I pick them up and might have put them to good use. I may have even used one on the panel swap in question. No, they don't have smart meters.

With the roof jack swap did not pull the meter, just disconnected the triplex, the panel swap I pulled the seals apart & reformed the wire on the seal then just put them back, I was pissed at whoever hung it on the pole for not using a gasket on the hub & the way they routed the wiring panel was a UG or OH model & they never moved the lugs to the top. Old panel was a ITE, replacement was the same other then Siemens had dropped the ITE name, but was the same panel.