New Slab Pour - Gonna request a Tear Out

[Lunker]

Detached 26x22

Can anyone talk me out of telling the Concrete Contractor to Tear this out and restart or part ways?

Not only is this the worst finish I've ever seen but its honeycombed with exposed rebar where the 18 and 16 ft doors are going as well as all along the side.

 

[The Cobbler]

that's bad. sorry bout your problem. is the contractor on board with how bad it is?

 

[Lunker]

that's bad. sorry bout your problem. is the contractor on board with how bad it is?

Yeah he admitted it was bad. We talked about Epoxy but now will all the honey combing I noticed today I am going to have him pull it out. (unless Im over reacting LOL)

 

[240sxguy]

Epoxy or not, can you live with it? That's the ultimate question.

 

[billconner]

Ask him to show you his epoxy repairs. But I am close to saying redo.

 

[Lunker]

Epoxy or not, can you live with it? That's the ultimate question.

I was thinking I could live with Epoxy but not after seeing the honey combing and exposed rebar. I think its going to crack with cars going in and out

 

[ConCretin]

Can anyone talk me out of telling the Concrete Contractor to Tear this out and restart or part ways?

I'm not even gonna try.

Some things aren't fixable. The honeycombing is but inadequate cover over the rebar isn't. The finish isn't fixable either. It looks like they just floated it and called it good. You could cover it up with epoxy but do you really trust you will get a quality product and installation?.

The poor quality that's visible makes you wonder about the problems that aren't. Good luck with this and the rest of your build.

 

[mike93lx]

What's the excuse and why is it going to be different in round 2?

 

[Garcky]

That's pretty bad, for sure. I suspect there's going to be considerable resistance to a complete redo, though, from the contractor. There always is. Get the local building department inspector in there. If they won't close the permit, the contractor will be forced to make it right. Shoddy work is unacceptable, but I think you're going to have to fight the contractor on this one.

 

[Doubled33]

The areas of rock pockets can be chipped out to good concrete exposing the bar and about 1” clear behind the bar. Epoxy or cementious Patch material can be used. Rock pockets are not uncommon on walls and columns.

The finish can be fixed by grinding. That looks like excess cream. Not sure how many square feet needs to be ground So it may take some time.

In the future be sure the place and finish crew uses a ******** and is on the slab giving it a hard trowel finish. Basically troweling it several times until it is hard enough to not leave a thumb print.

Got a copy of the mix design? Curious as to the slump and WC ratio along with any additives

 

[Toolfool]

No excuse for that kind of work. Did he leave his 'new' crew alone to do this ? Tear it out. ( and hope he does a better job)

 

[wssix99]

If this is a thickened edge slab, maybe you could get an inspector out and reject it due to the placement of that rebar and the poor quality of the concrete consolidation? (Then you aren't "the bad guy" and there's no question.)

If the inspector is good, then that might give you some piece of mind to have the concrete contractor to pay for an epoxy finish and repairs. to the honeycombing and inadequate rebar cover?

A proper epoxy finish will bead blast away the top layer and will give you a smooth floor.

 

[billconner]

Did the same contractor do the base? Poor base would be a bigger concern. The honeycomb in the slab edges don't bother me except the uncovered rebar.

 

[58Yeoman]

Are there ANY good concrete companies out there? Sure seem to be a lot of crappy jobs posted here.

 

[Jackfre]

Have you paid him? Money = leverage.

 

[SlotlessMan]

Are there ANY good concrete companies out there? Sure seem to be a lot of crappy jobs posted here.

Yes, but good ones around here stay very busy. Seems mine is at least 9 months out all the time.

Not saying that was the OP issue though.

 

[06 DIESEL]

You can pull the specs for rebar coverage with concrete and get them on that one and make them fix it. The finish could be fixed but not easily. I deal with this kind of stuff all the time at work, 90% of the time I make then tear it out and start over. I definitely would be checking before the pour and during the pour next time. Might even be worth paying for an inspector to check rebar and take cylinders for the pour to let the contractor know you are serious.

 

[jblnut]

Are there ANY good concrete companies out there? Sure seem to be a lot of crappy jobs posted here.

Yes! The two companies I use up in central Minnesota are both reasonable and do amazing work and as a bonus they are easy to deal with and show up on time when they tell you they will.

As just mentioned though they are booked quite a ways out. For a large slab pour I would like to be waiting at 6 months plus. Some of the smaller stuff I've had them do they come right away because I have all the prep work done rebar laid tied etc.

 

[Zeke]

I would see if it will respond to grinding and polish like a Costco floor. If it does then you get a premium finish for free. The edges could be 'sacked' or parged with an epoxy mortar.

If it won't look good polished (you'd have to do at least 20 sq ft) then I guess out it comes. That's gonna set you back a month, maybe? But polishing takes time too, so catch 22.

All in all, that's a shame. How do some people sleep at night?

All concrete cracks. Our member don long had the best crew and equipment including laser guided power screeds and the job was better than a skating rink. Today it has cracks. It been a few years, but it happens. The only thing I have seen not crack is an 8" thick tennis court with rebar 12"O.C. But, I digress.

 

[Sumboodie]

I would see if it will respond to grinding and polish like a Costco floor. If it does then you get a premium finish for free. The edges could be 'sacked' or parged with an epoxy mortar.

If it won't look good polished (you'd have to do at least 20 sq ft) then I guess out it comes. That's gonna set you back a month, maybe? But polishing takes time too, so catch 22.

All in all, that's a shame. How do some people sleep at night?

All concrete cracks. Our member don long had the best crew and equipment including laser guided power screeds and the job was better than a skating rink. Today it has cracks. It been a few years, but it happens. The only thing I have seen not crack is an 8" thick tennis court with rebar 12"O.C. But, I digress.

Shop I worked in had no cracks, but I was told it was a 12" thick slab. (no idea why) Was poured in the late 80s, maybe early 90s. My shop has several cracks, but they poured a 30x42 with no cuts, and I doubt it's any thicker than the minimum if that even.

 

[Lunker]

Have you paid him? Money = leverage.

I haven't paid a dime and don't plan on it.

 

[eegger]

Epoxy or not, can you live with it? That's the ultimate question.

Same, It's some thing that you will look at for a very long time and it will probably still bother you and have more issues down the road and then it's too late.

 

[Lunker]

What's the excuse and why is it going to be different in round 2?

He did another garage for me turned out OK. Its his main crew I guess this was a new crew he just picked up.

 

[Beemer]

If you get to redo it, it's important to CURE the slab to minimize cracks. You do not want it to dry out fast....think dried mud in the desert.
There are spray on curing compounds or cover it with thick poly. Not one commercial job I've overseen in over 40 years did not have the slabs cured. As some noted above, all concrete cracks and much of it has to do with how much water was in the mix (more is less good).
My own basement slab (35'x27' without joints) was cured with poly sheets for a week and I only see a couple barely noticeable hairline cracks there where expected; it's almost 40 years old.

 

[Lunker]

Stopped by this a.m. and the Slab is Ponding as well at the Alley Door. Garage has 2 doors off the driveway and into the alley with a 3" drop toward the front driveway. This is pooling right off the rear door.

 

[Doubled33]

I have been in management for heavy commercial construction for over 25 years.

Before you go down the tear it out pathway a few things to think of.

What PSI concrete was called for and were any test cylinders taken?

What does the contract (is there a written and detailed one?) with the concrete guy say?

Inspectors will probably not comment on this and call it non structural. It is not an elevated slab or retaining / shear wall. The only leg may be the exposed bar that did not meet code minimum coverage.

Remember if you have a contract and drawings and specifications they may be above code minimum which is not enforced by building inspector. They only in-force code minimum and not fit and finish.

Your drawings should have an archive/ engineer stamp on them. Call that person and send them these pictures and discuss with them.

Lastly ACI is the governing body for concrete. Be prepared to argue this multi volume document with the contractor if he is savvy on his trade. This and the contract will be where legal goes if there is a battle.

With that said one possible easy button is what grade of rebar was called out on your drawings and is that the grade that was used? Should have A615 gr 60 or A706 gr 60 etc…. If not then go down that pathway for replacement as it is easier to defend.

 

[Doubled33]

If you get to redo it, it's important to CURE the slab to minimize cracks. You do not want it to dry out fast....think dried mud in the desert.
There are spray on curing compounds or cover it with thick poly. Not one commercial job I've overseen in over 40 years did not have the slabs cured. As some noted above, all concrete cracks and much of it has to do with how much water was in the mix (more is less good).
My own basement slab (35'x27' without joints) was cured with poly sheets for a week and I only see a couple barely noticeable hairline cracks there where expected; it's almost 40 years old.

Solid advice on this. And the mix design has a lot to do with this as well. Shrinkage, water to cement ratio, heat of hydration.

Water works as a cure and also chemical compounds. If using chemicals make sure your flooring glue is compatible with it.

 

[Zeke]

Well, a little bit of a birdbath won't make or break a job for me. No doubt, that slab is poorly done but I sometimes wonder what people expect from concrete. It's NEVER perfect — sometimes close. I had a friend that built minimalist modern homes and used exposed concrete in kitchens and such. As a general contractor doing his own work, he was good. Still, I saw cracks. He was also good at fixing them. But again, I digress.

 

[thunderalley3]

I haven't paid a dime and don't plan on it.

Be very cautious here. If you have not paid the contractor they more than likely have not paid the concrete company. If he throws up his hands and walks away there is a good chance that you will wind up with a construction lien on your property with no recourse against the contractor, which will leave you owing for the supplies used to clear the lien and all the contractor is out is the labor which he will more than likely not pay the crew either.

If it was mine I would not "settle" for what was done and any attempt to repair it. I want it done and done right!!

 

[mike93lx]

Be very cautious here. If you have not paid the contractor they more than likely have not paid the concrete company. If he throws up his hands and walks away there is a good chance that you will wind up with a construction lien on your property with no recourse against the contractor, which will leave you owing for the supplies used to clear the lien and all the contractor is out is the labor which he will more than likely not pay the crew either.

If it was mine I would not "settle" for what was done and any attempt to repair it. I want it done and done right!!

Same thought when I read that. The batch plant doesn't care if the finishing was any good.

Make sure they get paid. It's your house the concrete is at, not the contractor's

 

[dougf]

I don't know too much about concrete, engineering, code, etc.. But i'll say this....

It doesn't look very good and there are some issues as has been shown and stated, but I would be inclined to have him do a little grinding, pour an apron off the front where the rebar issue is at, knock off a large bit of the cost of the slab, and keep it.

 

[duneslider]

Be very cautious here. If you have not paid the contractor they more than likely have not paid the concrete company. If he throws up his hands and walks away there is a good chance that you will wind up with a construction lien on your property with no recourse against the contractor, which will leave you owing for the supplies used to clear the lien and all the contractor is out is the labor which he will more than likely not pay the crew either.

If it was mine I would not "settle" for what was done and any attempt to repair it. I want it done and done right!!

When I built my house the two fastest people to put liens on the property was the concrete supply company and the concrete pumps. They both filed liens before the trucks arrived at the house. We started the project without a construction loan and we were paying cash while we worked out the financing and by the time the construction loan was happening I had several liens that I had to get lien releases for before the bank would close the construction loan.

They were fast to place the liens but took their time removing them.

 

[mike93lx]

When I built my house the two fastest people to put liens on the property was the concrete supply company and the concrete pumps. They both filed liens before the trucks arrived at the house. We started the project without a construction loan and we were paying cash while we worked out the financing and by the time the construction loan was happening I had several liens that I had to get lien releases for before the bank would close the construction loan.

They were fast to place the liens but took their time removing them.

Annoying for sure, but I bet they've been burned in the past and repo'ing concrete is challenging

 

[duneslider]

Annoying for sure, but I bet they've been burned in the past and repo'ing concrete is challenging

Really wasn't a big deal at all, we obviously were paying all our bills, so all it took was a couple phone calls. I just found it interesting that over the course of 12 months and all the different subs used, the only places that placed liens were the pumpers and the concrete suppliers. That really tells me that they both get burned a lot and yes, pretty tough to repo concrete.

 

[thunderalley3]

duneslider, that is how it is done here as well. In most instances within a few days of signing the contract the contractor will file a lien on the property at the courthouse. I understand it and have been dealing with it for years, there is also something in the law that if they bring material onsite before filing the lien it becomes a different situation for the contractor and they have difficulty even removing the material if you don't pay. Fortunately it is quick to get them removed. A paid receipt with a notarized form from the contractor and they are removed same day in most cases.

Where it does get interesting is when the property owner is different than the home. My wife and I rented mobile home lots and the tenant owned the home. When they would get something such as a carport etc. added some contractors struggled to understand it had to be filed against the homeowner not the property owner. Fortunately my wife was well versed in law and kept the forms and was a notary so we kept it all straight. She even wrote it in the leases that we had to approve all construction and sign off so the lien issue was handled then so we avoided a bunch of liens on the property for items that were not related to us.

 

[Beemer]

Are there ANY good concrete companies out there? Sure seem to be a lot of crappy jobs posted here.

When we built our house the framer busted my chops saying that the top of the foundation wall was off 1/4" in elevation over the 60' long back wall!

 

[thunderalley3]

The guy who does most of our concrete work always gives me a guarantee.
1) It is going to crack
2) No one is going to steal it

 

[brownbagg]

Really wasn't a big deal at all, we obviously were paying all our bills, so all it took was a couple phone calls. I just found it interesting that over the course of 12 months and all the different subs used, the only places that placed liens were the pumpers and the concrete suppliers. That really tells me that they both get burned a lot and yes, pretty tough to repo concrete.

the concrete company in my town will repo is, will push a house off the slab to get it, they will demo it in a heart beat

 

[brownbagg]

if the concrete is a certain psi,say 3000, and it breaks 3000. the concrete gets paid, no question

 

[Lunker]

Im not worried about a Lien. Im a Custom Home Builder and have used this guys a few times for foundations and recently did Flatwork on a $1.5M house and there was no issue. Have had several of his crew tell me this job is no good and they have said this crew's work that did this garage has questionable jobs in the recent past. So may be an expensive lesson for him.

If he Liens me I'll go after him with one of my attorney's