Are All Breaker Boxes This Tidy?
- Thread starter lolaetype
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sparky 1971
Well-known member
Whoever twisted the grounds together like that should be kicked in the nuts repeatedly.
EDIT: To answer the original question, NO. Very few are made up that way with the wires squared off like that. For every pretty panel like in the photo, there is one, maybe two that are absolute disasters. Most are somewhere in between. I make mine nice and easy to work in for the next guy because that might be me, but I'm not going to take time to make them into a piece of art. Once the cover goes on they all look the same.
EDIT: To answer the original question, NO. Very few are made up that way with the wires squared off like that. For every pretty panel like in the photo, there is one, maybe two that are absolute disasters. Most are somewhere in between. I make mine nice and easy to work in for the next guy because that might be me, but I'm not going to take time to make them into a piece of art. Once the cover goes on they all look the same.
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This whole thing feels like Hank the Homeowner read some ideas on a forum one day and installed a panel....
Hope we didn't insult the OP.
rkevins
Well-known member
Wiz02
Well-known member
I don't have pics, but I had neatened up my main panel over the years, and it was presentable and code compliant to the best of my ability. Recently I had a whole house standby generator installed with an automatic transfer switch. I couldn't monitor the entire installation and now the main panel looks like ***. What a mess, the wires are a rats nest just shoved into the panel haphazardly. This company has done a huge number of generator installation in my area and was highly recommended.
I'm going to have to straighten out the panel wiring myself as I didn't open the panel until long after I paid the bill. I know, I am a dumb ***.
I'm going to have to straighten out the panel wiring myself as I didn't open the panel until long after I paid the bill. I know, I am a dumb ***.
Dagny
Well-known member
It looks good but I would rather have some extra wire for the future
Yeah its a nice setup, the guarding on the main terminals is also a good idea. Up here in the frozen north we cant bring our branch circuits into the same section as the main breaker in a main service panel. We have a barrier separating the main breaker from the rest of the breakers, so all branch circuits need to come in through the sides or the bottom.i like these:
Someone proposed Canadian style loadcenters for the NEC, it was turned down, but the guarding of the live parts is a great idea.
I believe for the installations with Main Breaker service panels it is much safer for the average homeowner. Now if only Canada would adopt meter main combo units for residential services. Currently they are only allowed on farms, 20 acres +.
cmandp
Well-known member
The box in the OP looks nice but I'd hate to work or trouble shoot in there.
I had been looking at those Square D panels for a new main and sub for the garage. I liked the shielded main lugs. I thought the wire retainers would be good. I have since worked on a Square D Trilliant panel that has similar wire entrances to the box and I didn't like it. They might have improved it and it might be a case of working with it differently.i like these:
what didnt you like?
cmandp
Well-known member
You really had to put a kink in the cable to get it to fit in there. It was hard to push 12-2 NM-b into the slot without hurting the sheathing with the tool you were using or on the sharp molded edges. On the Trilliant panel the edges were left fairly sharp from molding as I mentioned. That was bad for the cable and for your hands and fingers if you slipped. It looks like they rounded the edges so that would fix the sharp edge issue.
The other is you have to stack cables one on top of each other. If you need to get to one that is behind then you are disturbing multiple cables. So very different from pushing them through an NM bushing or clamp. Just something I wasn't used to and would require thinking about how to run cables differently.
The other is you have to stack cables one on top of each other. If you need to get to one that is behind then you are disturbing multiple cables. So very different from pushing them through an NM bushing or clamp. Just something I wasn't used to and would require thinking about how to run cables differently.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Here's a couple I took during the process of installs,missing a couple things in the pictures.
What can I say,I was raised by a pack of anally retentive blacksmith/boiler maker/spring makers. Hahaha
And yes,sometimes existing wires are short and need to be spliced.
What can I say,I was raised by a pack of anally retentive blacksmith/boiler maker/spring makers. Hahaha
And yes,sometimes existing wires are short and need to be spliced.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
are these main panels or subpanels?Here's a couple I took during the process of installs,missing a couple things in the pictures.
What can I say,I was raised by a pack of anally retentive blacksmith/boiler maker/spring makers. Hahaha
And yes,sometimes existing wires are short and need to be spliced.
I think there are a few other violations as well...
beemerphile
Well-known member
Without the violations? We don't have to cover up Romex any more?What about a whole job that's done that way (without the violations)?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Not if it isn't subject to damage
Square D sells those yellow covers for the main terminals.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Mains.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Enlighten me.
Doesn't the jacket on nm-b need to extend into the box a little more?
How is the nm-b secured inside the conduit chase?
Blue wire?
Is that thhn in the conduit or nm-b with the jacket removed?
Not a sparky, worked with a few and know enough to be dangerous.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
If that were to happen, just think about how many people would ***** about how that idiot 'lectrician put the panel in upside down!
And since fair is fair, I'm looking for pics of my panel swap.
Dual meter was feeding 2 runs of SER to 2 100A panels with a very sketchy split bolt connection.
I consolidated down to a single 200A panel, and after finding other issues pulled new wire to all but 1 circuit in the house.
Lost most of the really good pics due to a phone issue, but have some saved some to a computer.
Dual meter was feeding 2 runs of SER to 2 100A panels with a very sketchy split bolt connection.
I consolidated down to a single 200A panel, and after finding other issues pulled new wire to all but 1 circuit in the house.
Lost most of the really good pics due to a phone issue, but have some saved some to a computer.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
That looks like #2 SE cable on a 200 amp main breaker.. It's good for a 100 amp service entrance, but f you have a 100 amp main somewhere else, you need a four wire feeder.And since fair is fair, I'm looking for pics of my panel swap.
Dual meter was feeding 2 runs of SER to 2 100A panels with a very sketchy split bolt connection.
I consolidated down to a single 200A panel, and after finding other issues pulled new wire to all but 1 circuit in the house.
Lost most of the really good pics due to a phone issue, but have some saved some to a computer.
Good eye.
I ran into a snag and had to get some crimp terminals to fit my 2/0 cable into the meter. Since I pulled the meter and did the swap on a weekend I couldn't get what I needed at home Depot. I had a master electrician on staff at the time and he helped me out, most of my pics were on a work phone that was damaged beyond repair.
The pic I really wish I had was the meter. Dual meter, one fed reduced rate H20 heater. The other fed what turned out to be 3-4 sections of ground wire wrapped in tape feeding a split bolt feeding 2 runs of #2 SE, each feeding it's own panel. From there I had the full gambit of WTF, starting with 30A breakers feeding 14-2 and ending with ungrounded MWBC fed from nm-b using the ground as a CCC but insulated with phone cable jacket in each box.
The original owner was a plant electrician. I think everything worked, but the more I dig in the more WTF I found.
Edit: here's a few pics I had on FB, shown here finish to start. I had started some of the rewiring before the panel swap, thus the excess NM-B hanging in the last picture.
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wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
WTF is with all that tape?
On mine?
No idea. Previous owner wrapped the neutral feed.
That SE got replaced a few days later as noted above.
beemerphile
Well-known member
Which is to say that there is no way to call this installation "without the violations" without naming the particular AHJ and maybe even the particular inspector within the particular AHJ. Where I am, it won't fly. "If I can see it, I can damage it". I can appeal it to the Zoning Board and lose the argument. I know a guy who argued with the inspector about exposed Romex in the unfinished 12' ceiling of an accessory building. The inspector finally relented. Would a 10' ceiling pass? You'd just have to try it.Not if it isn't subject to damage
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Nm-b secured inside conduit? The conduit is for physical protection of the romex between bottom of joists and top of service panel.
When you have a roll of blue #10 thhn on your van and need to run power to an ac disconect, you use what you have on hand.
What's the matter,you dont like bright colors? Hahaha
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Blue?? How dare you
i only wire in yellow THHN. nothing else will work
cmandp
Well-known member
Green is my favorite color. Wait, isn't that used for some specific wire? Oh well, the green looks great.
Your plant electrician reminds me of our house. It was extensively renovated in the 50s and 60s by a man who ran an plumbing/electrical supply (He also sold Lionel and other model trains) out of the garage.
We swear he used left overs for most everything electrical and plumbing. Many junction boxes (buried in the walls BTW) connecting different types of the cloth covered NM. It was like: "I have all these random scraps of NM and plenty of boxes. I'll just make make my own cable the length I need!". We have 3 meter bases, 2 abandoned at this point. A main panel,, sub panel off of the main right next to it, several disconnects used as junction boxes. The garage has a "main" sub-panel and two sub-sub-panels off of it... Plumbing is also strange, random fittings that wouldn't be the easiest way to run it.
It still not as bad as your plant electrician.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Green is good, green is safe. Best color for showing someone your wiring is trustworthy and harmless
Not secured inside the conduit, but secured in the panel. If you pull on the wire above the conduit, does it pull on the breaker?
I’ll tell a story on myself. When I was a new tech I first worked on low voltage digital stuff. A couple of years later I worked on a magnetometer. Besides a lot of digital and low level analog stuff it had 240 V to drive a bunch of motors. We needed to wire up a 240 V breaker panel for it (in the instrument, not the building) and I volunteered to get it done. All lab stock had was this nice green wire with a yellow stripe in the gauge I needed. The EE on the project (fresh out of school) said “sure, use that stuff”. After I was done, another tech said “wow that’s a lot of grounds”. Um, nope. So on the redo I did it right. Kinda left an indelible impression on me.
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Jim greengo
Well-known member
Its stapled to the joists above the conduit,doesnt need to be secured inside of the conduit.
Jim greengo
Well-known member
It was in front of the red and black spools of #10 in my van,I was feeling lazy that day and didnt want to dig. Hahaha
Next time I'll use purple to really blow your minds! Hahaha
SlappyWhite
Well-known member
As others noted in Canada we cannot put the wiring through the main breaker "area" so we go into the sides of the panel. Some turn the panels sideways to come in from one side or just do it like this....
Some also run the wires behind the panel board and pop them out through holes in the board, which looks clean but it is usually a mess behind the board. The surface mount makes for easy future additions etc. Our code does not require the NMSC to be protected here... Not required but the binder contains all the permits, calculations and details for the system and is hung from a knob from the removed knob and tube....
Some also run the wires behind the panel board and pop them out through holes in the board, which looks clean but it is usually a mess behind the board. The surface mount makes for easy future additions etc. Our code does not require the NMSC to be protected here... Not required but the binder contains all the permits, calculations and details for the system and is hung from a knob from the removed knob and tube....