The Ultimate Tool Set? Grainger Seems to Think So?

[toddmorr]

My point is that the list price is straight-up nuts. A $50 per tool average is completely ridiculous. No matter how "good" those tools are, there is no way they're worth that kind of money, frankly.

You're dead wrong, they're worth whatever a customer is willing to pay.

Your opinion as to the price of the tool is irrelevant unless you're a buyer.

 

[zendriver]

Saying harbor fright is comparable to proto cost you all credibility.

They don't both remove and replace fasteners?

 

[1982fxr]

They don't both remove and replace fasteners?

In the same way a Ferrari and a pedal bike will both get you down the road.

 

[zendriver]

In the same way a Ferrari and a pedal bike will both get you down the road.

Got it.

The Ferrari owner has an inflated ego (plus bank account) and the pedal bike owner does not, since both methods get one down the road.

 

[NC Fabricator25]

So you don't care that Grainger sells this set at this price but you start a thread about it? Just bored then? Geez.

Yup. My real reason for posting the original post was the phenomenon of tool sets where the cost per tool ends up being over $40. For me, that makes no earthly sense at all, for many reasons.

Yes, there are people who take advantage of ignorance on the part of purchasing agents, most of whom have never held a hand tool. Government organizations and corporations fall into that category.

I don't care that Grainger offers a set like that at a price like that. What I care about is individuals for whom tools mean their livelihood. More and more are figuring out that tools that are priced way above their true value are not a good bargain, and that's a good thing, it seems to me.

 

[Garcky]

So you don't care that Grainger sells this set at this price but you start a thread about it? Just bored then? Geez.

No, not bored. Interested. And, since you bothered to read my post and thread, you must be interested, too. It's easy to skip over uninteresting threads. I do it frequently.

Thing is that I have opinions about things. Your opinion might differ from mine. We can discuss that.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Got it.

The Ferrari owner has an inflated ego (plus bank account) and the pedal bike owner does not, since both methods get one down the road.

Yup, dumbest cyclist thinks he's in the tour de France and there's no difference between him and a car. While he goes 15mph on a 60mph road.

 

[Garcky]

Yup, dumbest cyclist thinks he's in the tour de France and there's no difference between him and a car. While he goes 15mph on a 60mph road.

And, yet, even someone just walking gets down the road. All modes of transportation get one down the road. An airplane lets you skip the road altogether, but they are even more costly than a Ferrari. We have many ways to get down the road. None are intrinsically superior to another. They are simply different.

I don't have a Ferrari, but I have a car. My car can exceed the legal speed limit on any given road, just like the Ferrari can. I generally choose not to do that, as can the Ferrari owner. So my little car is equal to a Ferrari for taking me down the road. It is, however, very different in very many ways. I prefer the vehicle I drive, and have no wish to own a Ferrari.

Relating to the topic of this thread, my toolbox contains all the tools I need to do anything I need to do. If I need an additional tool, I can buy one. The retail value of all the tools I own is probably well under $1000, because they are all used tools now. Still, I have a complete tool set for my needs. It has been many years since I broke a tool. So, are my tools less useful than the ones in that Grainger set? I argue that they are not less useful, but they certainly are less costly.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

And, yet, even someone just walking gets down the road. All modes of transportation get one down the road. An airplane lets you skip the road altogether, but they are even more costly than a Ferrari. We have many ways to get down the road. None are intrinsically superior to another. They are simply different.

I don't have a Ferrari, but I have a car. My car can exceed the legal speed limit on any given road, just like the Ferrari can. I generally choose not to do that, as can the Ferrari owner. So my little car is equal to a Ferrari for taking my down the road. It is, however, very different in very many ways. I prefer the vehicle I drive, and have no wish to own a Ferrari.

Sorry you don't like nice cars. Believe it or not, there's a difference between that and a civic.

I think I'd get a cayman as a toy personally.

 

[Garcky]

Sorry you don't like nice cars. Believe it or not, there's a difference between that and a civic.

I think I'd get a cayman as a toy personally.

I like nice cars just fine. I own a couple of nice cars, which I enjoy driving. Measuring what is nice or not nice is not a simple thing. I don't own a Civic, though. I've never owned a Honda. I own a KIA Soul and an AWD Chevy Trax. Both are nice cars, by my definition of what is a nice car. I have no doubt that they will be more reliable than a Ferrari, if not as fast. I will never own a Ferrari, which costs more than my house cost. I can't live in a Ferrari.

You and I desire different things, apparently.

 

[zendriver]

Yup, dumbest cyclist thinks he's in the tour de France and there's no difference between him and a car. While he goes 15mph on a 60mph road.

Somehow, the discussion just had to shift (no pun intended) from wrenches to cars.

If there is an Icon combination wrench and a Proto, somehow there is a noticeable difference in the fit, functionality and longevity between the two?

Hard to imagine that anyone does not see one as silly.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Somehow, the discussion just had to shift (no pun intended) from wrenches to cars.

If there is an Icon combination wrench and a Proto, somehow there is a noticeable difference in the fit, functionality and longevity between the two?

Hard to imagine that anyone does not see one as silly.

I pulled a 2.5 turbo subaru exhaust manifold, leaving the turbo in place, on a 2021 ascent a few weeks ago. Prevented me from getting new turbo gaskets and whatnot. Needed to swap the oil pan.

Snap on socket barely made it past the manifold flange to get to the turbo nut. Barely, like I wiggled and scrapped it in. Craftsman ain't gonna fit, proto wouldn't have either. Proto sockets are super thick. "There is a difference". IDK, what's it worth to you to deal with a few more studs, sit on the phone with the dealer for gaskets, etc.

Being that I've used proto basic open ends and carlyle wrenches with the same toothed open end as icon, I can tell you the icon open ends **** ***. Proto asd, snap on, wright grip are all superior on rotten fasteners.

Call it like you want, just my experience wrenching on junk in rustville.

 

[Nutria]

Somehow, the discussion just had to shift (no pun intended) from wrenches to cars.

Just drive this, and all bases are covered.

 

[Debcrow]

Large buyers do get a substantial discount.
I know we all complain about 'Government Waste'. I worked for a government agency before I retired, hydroelectric to be exact. A lot of the equipment we worked on was well over 50 years old and VERY WELL BUILT.
We needed some tappet style wrenches to work on a governor that had some tight hard to get to working spaces. I ordered 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and 5/8 inch DOE tappet style wrenches from the GSA catalog. I thought they were kind of expensive when I ordered them at prices of 8.00 to 17.00 each. I was somewhat surprised when they all came in...Snap-On.

 

[turnthewrench 2.0]

You're dead wrong, they're worth whatever a customer is willing to pay.

Your opinion as to the price of the tool is irrelevant unless you're a buyer.

Hang on tight, If you're hoping (it) to be digested.

 

[CS454]

No, not bored. Interested. And, since you bothered to read my post and thread, you must be interested, too. It's easy to skip over uninteresting threads. I do it frequently.

Thing is that I have opinions about things. Your opinion might differ from mine. We can discuss that.

Can we discuss what our favourite drink at Starbucks is? That has more future than discussing hypothetical 5 figure tool purchases on a tool forum.

 

[Garcky]

Can we discuss what our favourite drink at Starbucks is? That has more future than discussing hypothetical 5 figure tool purchases on a tool forum.

You can start a thread on that if you like. I never go to Starbucks.

 

[yamaha0343]

I'm sure you could duplicate the Proto set with Icon-grade tools from HF for well under $10,000. Quality would be just as good. BTW, the Grainger set includes a rolling toolbox, although there's no description of it.

Grainger exists for industrial companies’ procurement departments. Its a one stop shop that makes things easy and stocks pretty much everything. I always try to use local supply houses but Grainger exists for a reason and they’re great at it.

Having worked in procurement, I can promise that no sane procurement coordinator is dealing with the never ending brand name changes and constantly moving range of quality levels at Harbor Freight. How many battery platforms have they gone through? Buying a massive Proto set like this from Grainger prevents the procurement guy from getting that angry call at 3am that the job didn’t get done because we tried to save $20 on sockets.

Icon isn’t bad (some of it rather good actually) and is well known on this board, but outside of here the brand name carries little to no name recognition. In the event of a failure I’d much rather tell a PO’ed service manager I bought Proto than Harbor Freight’s new boutique brand.

 

[Lassen Forge]

Grainger exists for industrial companies’ procurement departments. Its a one stop shop that makes things easy and stocks pretty much everything. I always try to use local supply houses but Grainger exists for a reason and they’re great at it.

My go to's when I was in industry were MSC, Grainger, and Fastenal. When you need something right now that's unusual, these are the go-to's. When we decided to move to the EU and I needed a 230V50Hz motor for my old faithful drill press, I went to Grainger and my new Dayton motor showed up a couple days later. I needed some off size atachments for a project I was involved in, Fastenal came to my rescue. And who doesn't love spending countless hours in the MSC Big Blue Wishbook... ;-)

BTW, that's not a bad price for the Wiha insulated tool set. I got my sparkproof tools from one of them (needed for my old job), not cheap but they efing worked!!! And if something failed - it would get replaced within 24 hours, 48 if it were totally unusual. Then, we ended up with a manager who had no experience beyond home despot, so he got a HD "corporate" card, and sent his boys to buy tools etc, from them - great for the occasional homeowner, but in a heavy duty industrial setting, not very durable nor cost effective. But, by god, that's where he bought his homeowner tools, so EVERYONE should use them.

 

[ATC]

Relating to the topic of this thread, my toolbox contains all the tools I need to do anything I need to do. If I need an additional tool, I can buy one. The retail value of all the tools I own is probably well under $1000, because they are all used tools now. Still, I have a complete tool set for my needs. It has been many years since I broke a tool. So, are my tools less useful than the ones in that Grainger set? I argue that they are not less useful, but they certainly are less costly.

And how long did it take you to procure all your tools? Companies don’t have years or decades to thrift shop and garage sale their tool kits together while they are equipping their maintenance team.
Some of that Grainger price is a convenience fee for having everything you need, brand new, right now.

 

[Garcky]

And how long did it take you to procure all your tools? Companies don’t have years or decades to thrift shop and garage sale their tool kits together while they are equipping their maintenance team.
Some of that Grainger price is a convenience fee for having everything you need, brand new, right now.

Pretty much my entire adult life, really. At age 77, I just bought some new tools last week.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

Op that is a nice looking set I need to save up, perhaps 2030, by then it may cost $60K, should have saved up back in 2010. This thread may be good for advertising Grainger and Proto.

 

[signcrafter]

Pretty much my entire adult life, really. At age 77, I just bought some new tools last week.

Pretty sure that was his whole point. A company doesnt have an entire adult life to look for the best deal for each tool. As said many times already this isnt a set for everyone. This isnt for the diy home owner looking to do a brake job in the driveway. This isnt even really for a dealership level mechanic. And it's pretty clear to see in this thread who has been on the business side of things before and who hasnt.

Another way to look at it is how many hours of your adult life do you think you spent searching for and researching and buying tools to get the best price? The same thing a company would have to do in order to get all the tools needed to complete a set like this. If you add up all the hours you spent at the store, yard sales, ordering online, etc I would guess you would be in the several hundreds of dollars. One trip to HF is probably at least an hour for most people by the time you head out to the truck, drive there, pick out a tool, and drive home. Time adds up fast in business, labor is a huge cost. So now if a business did this same thing when they needed a tool and pay a guy 30 to 40 dollars an hour plus benefits to find the best deal on each tool. It would cost them way more then this tool set costs them. It's one thing to sit at home sipping a coffee or beer and search online for the best tool. It's a whole different story when you are paying someone good money to find a deal on the best tools. Grainger did that work and put together a pretty complete set for the company. So the company is paying a premium. And like mentioned earlier if a machine goes down and a guy has to run to the store to get a tool to fix it while a handful of people stand around and no product is being produced. A few times of that and this set would pay for itself.

I'm not trying to justify this set for anyone. There is no question its overpriced. Just saying that from a business standpoint there are reasons one may order this set.

 

[Garcky]

Pretty sure that was his whole point. A company doesnt have an entire adult life to look for the best deal for each tool. As said many times already this isnt a set for everyone. This isnt for the diy home owner looking to do a brake job in the driveway. This isnt even really for a dealership level mechanic. And it's pretty clear to see in this thread who has been on the business side of things before and who hasnt.

Another way to look at it is how many hours of your adult life do you think you spent searching for and researching and buying tools to get the best price? The same thing a company would have to do in order to get all the tools needed to complete a set like this. If you add up all the hours you spent at the store, yard sales, ordering online, etc I would guess you would be in the several hundreds of dollars. One trip to HF is probably at least an hour for most people by the time you head out to the truck, drive there, pick out a tool, and drive home. Time adds up fast in business, labor is a huge cost. So now if a business did this same thing when they needed a tool and pay a guy 30 to 40 dollars an hour plus benefits to find the best deal on each tool. It would cost them way more then this tool set costs them. It's one thing to sit at home sipping a coffee or beer and search online for the best tool. It's a whole different story when you are paying someone good money to find a deal on the best tools. Grainger did that work and put together a pretty complete set for the company. So the company is paying a premium. And like mentioned earlier if a machine goes down and a guy has to run to the store to get a tool to fix it while a handful of people stand around and no product is being produced. A few times of that and this set would pay for itself.

I'm not trying to justify this set for anyone. There is no question its overpriced. Just saying that from a business standpoint there are reasons one may order this set.

Yes, of course. All of that. That was never my point in the first place. It was just a set at that price that got me thinking about how we all evaluate tool costs and how those costs fit into our lives. So, I started this very active thread to talk about that. And so we have talked about it, from a number of perspectives. My feelings about the excessive cost of that set still stands. Do some organizations buy such tool sets? No doubt they do. Is that set a good value? Nope. It's not.

Some individual mechanics have six figures invested in their tools. Others choose to get their tools in another way for less money. Both methods are valid and give those who buy those tools what they need to do their jobs. Neither way of buying tools is right or wrong. They are just different.

 

[signcrafter]

Is that set a good value? Nope. It's not.

Some individual mechanics have six figures invested in their tools. Others choose to get their tools in another way for less money. Both methods are valid and give those who buy those tools what they need to do their jobs. Neither way of buying tools is right or wrong. They are just different.

Depends on your definition of value. To some businesses this might be a great value. If your time is worth zero and you have all the time in the world then yes it's a horrible value. If your time is worth several thousands of dollars an hour, which many company's time is worth that, then it's a good value to one click and usually have at your dock in the morning. Obviously this set is back ordered right now but most things with grainger is overnight shipped. Theres also things in business like deadlines and contracts. So if you cant meet those because a machine is down you get penalized and lose future contracts. If you think this set is crazy you should see the inner workings of a huge company. The one I worked at had a spare parts room with millions of dollars in parts just sitting there. A replacement motor for every machine. A replacement gear box for every machine. Rollers, bearings, circuit boards, etc. Basically we could rebuild a machine and minimize down time. Also had a full welding and machine shop. Could fabricate all sorts of stuff. Metal supply room. The list goes on and on. And if we needed a part it was overnighted at whatever expense. Because if if shipping was 2000 dollars for a 200 dollar part it was cheaper then that machine being down for 3 days. So value doesnt always mean the cheapest option. Just like the cheapest auto parts aren't always the best value.

And one more thing about this set, it's a tax write off also. I know a lot of big farmers that have 3 or 4 brand new john deere combines. Are they a good value? Not sure but they are a tax write off and they buy new and trade in when warranty is up so they dont have to deal with break downs.

 

[Kuma601]

As above^

At a casual level I enjoy shopping as it passes time to find deals even thought that is maybe 5-20% out there. Wife comments to me that the 2-5 hours spent wandering online I could have called the local tool shop, placed an order and went to pick it up. How valuable is my time? In corporate manufacturing that is not an acceptable arrangement.

I just so happen to like Proto and other than Grainger there is one local tool supply that I know that carries them. Due to supply chain issues, they have not had much in stock so even Grainger was a 2-3 day wait. Even for myself I have back-up so that if there is a supply issue or tool, I generally have on hand what is needed. JIT inventory is great if the supplier regularly has it but in these times, that's iffy. The sitting $ makes my stomach turn but I'm glad at times to have spent to have the necessities.

 

[Bockscar]

Depends on your definition of value. To some businesses this might be a great value. If your time is worth zero and you have all the time in the world then yes it's a horrible value. If your time is worth several thousands of dollars an hour, which many company's time is worth that, then it's a good value to one click and usually have at your dock in the morning. Obviously this set is back ordered right now but most things with grainger is overnight shipped. Theres also things in business like deadlines and contracts. So if you cant meet those because a machine is down you get penalized and lose future contracts. If you think this set is crazy you should see the inner workings of a huge company. The one I worked at had a spare parts room with millions of dollars in parts just sitting there. A replacement motor for every machine. A replacement gear box for every machine. Rollers, bearings, circuit boards, etc. Basically we could rebuild a machine and minimize down time. Also had a full welding and machine shop. Could fabricate all sorts of stuff. Metal supply room. The list goes on and on. And if we needed a part it was overnighted at whatever expense. Because if if shipping was 2000 dollars for a 200 dollar part it was cheaper then that machine being down for 3 days. So value doesnt always mean the cheapest option. Just like the cheapest auto parts aren't always the best value.

And one more thing about this set, it's a tax write off also. I know a lot of big farmers that have 3 or 4 brand new john deere combines. Are they a good value? Not sure but they are a tax write off and they buy new and trade in when warranty is up so they dont have to deal with break downs.

Exactly.....until you work in a large factory you can't understand the costs involved....places I have worked like you said the tool cribs are packed with parts for everything.....where I currently work depending which goes down can cost from 10,000 to a 100,000 dollars an hour so that tool kit is really nothing for the company to have the tools for the job....heck the company I work for spends a million a year just on gloves for the employees

 

[PoorUB]

They don't both remove and replace fasteners?

Believe it or not but some tools are higher quality than others. Snap-On came out with Flank Drive years ago. A Flank Drive box end wrench would not slip on a rounded off hex head fastener that most other brands would just slip and spin.
Also metal hardness and durability. I was working on a car and broke two Craftsman open end wrenches and a Snap-On got the bolt off with out damage to either.

I have a set of HF 3/8" impacts and I have been pleasantly surprised that they have held up for my occasional use for thirty years. On the other hand I have a set of HF combination end wrenches and the box ends have a huge chamfer in them and slip off bolt heads easily where my Snap-On wrenches don't.

I am not sure about the Proto versus HF comparison, but I would have to believe Proto is better. I have a some of HF 3/8" drive allen wrenches, I bought them in the last ten years. I have broken a couple and in comparison the Snap-On and Proto Allens I have had for 45 years have not broken yet.

There is more to quality tools than just metalurgy, there is also fit and finish, tolerance, or how well they fit the hardware they are removing.

 

[dchawk81]

https://www.grainger.com/product/53GL71?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsdKbBhDHARIsANJ6-jcU7o1Hko-aXx4-FnUzGpiWxrpwP_wRxA40wpq99OlSZ-pwgWFKXF4aAhjyEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Want a master toolset from Proto? Grainger will sell you one. It's got a whopping 1,046 tools in it. Proto tools. You'll have to wait, though. A note on the Grainger web page says that shipment is expected by the end of January, 2023.

You could start saving up for it, though, right now. The price is $49,655.33.

Get yours before it sells out, eh?

Note: I have no connection to either Proto nor Grainger.

Since it's not for you, you're obviously not one of the ones that get it done.™

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Believe it or not but some tools are higher quality than others. Snap-On came out with Flank Drive years ago. A Flank Drive box end wrench would not slip on a rounded off hex head fastener that most other brands would just slip and spin.
Also metal hardness and durability. I was working on a car and broke two Craftsman open end wrenches and a Snap-On got the bolt off with out damage to either.

I have a set of HF 3/8" impacts and I have been pleasantly surprised that they have held up for my occasional use for thirty years. On the other hand I have a set of HF combination end wrenches and the box ends have a huge chamfer in them and slip off bolt heads easily where my Snap-On wrenches don't.

I am not sure about the Proto versus HF comparison, but I would have to believe Proto is better. I have a some of HF 3/8" drive allen wrenches, I bought them in the last ten years. I have broken a couple and in comparison the Snap-On and Proto Allens I have had for 45 years have not broken yet.

There is more to quality tools than just metalurgy, there is also fit and finish, tolerance, or how well they fit the hardware they are removing.

Now we have flank drive xtra sockets which put the previous champ, matco non-slip spline, to shame. Absurd what those sockets will grab onto.

Not to say lots of other brands don't make good tools. I believe there's a disconnect between saying a tool is better or offers additional benefits, and people hearing that the other tool doesn't do the job at all. I use both HF and snap on tools daily. Proto? Not so much, probably a couple times a month.

 

[zendriver]

Believe it or not but some tools are higher quality than others. Snap-On came out with Flank Drive years ago. A Flank Drive box end wrench would not slip on a rounded off hex head fastener that most other brands would just slip and spin.
Also metal hardness and durability. I was working on a car and broke two Craftsman open end wrenches and a Snap-On got the bolt off with out damage to either.

I have a set of HF 3/8" impacts and I have been pleasantly surprised that they have held up for my occasional use for thirty years. On the other hand I have a set of HF combination end wrenches and the box ends have a huge chamfer in them and slip off bolt heads easily where my Snap-On wrenches don't.

I am not sure about the Proto versus HF comparison, but I would have to believe Proto is better. I have a some of HF 3/8" drive allen wrenches, I bought them in the last ten years. I have broken a couple and in comparison the Snap-On and Proto Allens I have had for 45 years have not broken yet.

There is more to quality tools than just metalurgy, there is also fit and finish, tolerance, or how well they fit the hardware they are removing.

Maybe they are better, which was not my point, which was inexpensive tools almost always get the job done -, just the same as their more impressive, more expensive counterparts.

IDK but other posts state they believe even Proto is “not as good” as it once was - whatever that actually means.

 

[dsimatt]

That set reminds me of the sets in the Sears Wish Book that I would look at endlessly as a kid. That was back in the day, and I don't think that it worked out to $40/tool, even after accounting for inflation. I did love looking at those sets as a youngster though.

One of the guys in my first year at tech school bought one of their sets. I was not really impressed and seemed like a lot of stuff was done to claim X amount of tools unnecessary.

 

[1982fxr]

I just hope next time I reach for a hammer, punch and safety glasses, I get lucky and pull out harbor freight instead of the crappy Proto stuff.

Said no informed person ever.

 

[dchawk81]

I just hope next time I reach for a hammer, punch and safety glasses, I get lucky and pull out harbor freight instead of the crappy Proto stuff.

Said no informed person ever.

No one would ever say that because it's really really weird.

Has nothing to do with whether a Harbor Freight hammer can run a Harbor Freight chisel safely.

 

[Garcky]

I just hope next time I reach for a hammer, punch and safety glasses, I get lucky and pull out harbor freight instead of the crappy Proto stuff.

Said no informed person ever.

Well, the lucky thing is that you're grabbing the safety glasses, because there's always a risk with hardened striking tools. Safety first. However, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

Still, what punch are you picking up? Which hammer will you use with that punch? I have tons of different punches and a whole range of sizes of ball pein hammers to strike them with. Matching the two tools appropriately is far more important than the brand name on the hammer, really. Am I driving out a 5/32" pin or a 1/2" pin? Or am I using a center punch to mark the workpiece for drilling a hole?

My hammers are made by a wide range of companies. So far, in my 77 years, I have not had any hammers break nor any punches splinter.

 

[Garcky]

Maybe they are better, which was not my point, which was inexpensive tools almost always get the job done -, just the same as their more impressive, more expensive counterparts.

IDK but other posts state they believe even Proto is “not as good” as it once was - whatever that actually means.

There's a history of Plomb and Proto here in the vintage tools forum. Proto was bought up by Stanley a long time ago. Their tools are not the same as they were when Proto was a stand-alone company. Of course, nobody's tools are the same as they were any more. Some are better; some are not.

 

[1982fxr]

No one would ever say that because it's really really weird.

Has nothing to do with whether a Harbor Freight hammer can run a Harbor Freight chisel safely.

You haven't read this whole thread then. And you're better off for it, trust me.

 

[1982fxr]

Well, the lucky thing is that you're grabbing the safety glasses, because there's always a risk with hardened striking tools. Safety first. However, I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make.

Still, what punch are you picking up? Which hammer will you use with that punch? I have tons of different punches and a whole range of sizes of ball pein hammers to strike them with. Matching the two tools appropriately is far more important than the brand name on the hammer, really. Am I driving out a 5/32" pin or a 1/2" pin? Or am I using a center punch to mark the workpiece for drilling a hole?

My hammers are made by a wide range of companies. So far, in my 77 years, I have not had any hammers break nor any punches splinter.

How did I know a reply like this would be coming.

You've never done the type of jobs that the Proto set is about.

 

[Garcky]

How did I know a reply like this would be coming.

You've never done the type of jobs that the Proto set is about.

I see. Well, you would know, I suppose...

 

[dchawk81]

You haven't read this whole thread then. And you're better off for it, trust me.

I did actually read the entire thread. Garcky would never say something like Harbor Freight is better than Proto.

Being good enough is a different stance entirely.