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Between 265 & 485 SQ/FT Nick's Two-Car Detached Vdub Garage

Workspaces sized between 265 and 485 squarefeet.

old_smokey

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Hey @nicholam77 I just read through most of your thread and am loving it! So much great work.

I ended up finding your thread because I was searching for solutions to a problem we have in common... I am re-doing my bathroom and I have the identical room layout, tub, tile, and window arrangement as you.

I have a tile job I am not happy with, and have decided to re-do it. How is your PVC window trim working? Any indications of issues, or has it held up well? I currently have tile running into the sill and jams like you wanted to do, but for a few reasons, I'm not happy with it. I was thinking that trimming the window in PVC could be an option, and that thought brought me here. Would you recommend it?

Thanks!
 
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Jeff Ivers

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With regards to the night stand mounting, have you considered one of those ceiling fan hangers? The kind that can be inserted through a ceiling box size hole and expanded to lock to the studs on either side?
 

wreckdiver1321

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Can you put two screws in the stud? Then supplement with two or maybe three anchors?

I know the toggles can hold a ton of weight, so I wouldn't worry too much about that, but if you can get two screws into the double stud, you really will increase the rigidity of the cleat at that attachment point and take some of the strain off of the anchors. With two screws into the stud, your anchors won't be forced to stop the rotation of the cleat, at least not entirely.
 

ebarker9

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You might be able to get away with toggle bolts, but I'd just bite the bullet and put in solid blocking and never worry about it again. You could probably hide most of the patch behind the night stand and, if you're neat about it, it shouldn't be too bad to do.
 

bj383ss

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If you can get two screws in the stud vertically as far apart as possible in between them and a toggle on the other side you should be good I would think. I think worst case scenario the toggle side would pull on the wall but if you have two screws in the stud now way it is going to crash down.

Sorry I didn't see your question on topcoat choice. It's a mute point now.

Bret
 

loganb

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I'm also in the camp that a couple lags or GRK style structural screws into the double stud and then a toggle bolt on the other end and you'll be fine. With the solid french cleat on the roomside of the drywall it helps improve the strength of the toggle as well as it becomes harder to pull the toggle thru....another in the middle is also easy to add. As mentioned above, it would be pretty straight forward patch job to cut an access hole to stick some blocking in to remove any concerns.

If you wanted to get a bit fancier with toggle anchors, I used this style in college when mounting TV's for the dept I worked for, still put at least 2 anchors into metal studs but in our non-scientific load tests(it was an engineering dept lol) they did hold better than the normal wing style.


If you want to hate yourself when you move houses you could also use construction adhesive on the backside of the french cleat :devilish:
 

Bob Heine

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Nick, I would use two lag bolts on a diagonal into the double stud. That alone should handle the weight. A molly in the middle and a second on the right would lock the french cleat level. I avoid toggle bolts because I always make mistakes and have to remove the screw, leaving piles of wings in the wall cavity. I knew I shouldn't look but I'm almost out of mollies. Discovered there's a tool to install mollies reliably.
Mollies and Tool.jpg


EDIT: I see I'm not alone but I am late.
 
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nicholam77

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@zanyad
@pat9198
@Trapps
@loganb
@Bob Heine
@bj383ss
@wreckdiver1321
@Jeff Ivers

Thanks for all the input, guys.

Yes, I could get two lag screws in the double stud. I agree with you all that it would be likely be 99% fine adding the toggle bolts or mollies or whatever substantial wall anchor. The self-drilling plastic anchors I normally use have surprisingly high load specs, too, like 75 lbs each if you get the big ones.

I am tempted to do this, but... after thinking about it further I might just block it out so I don't have to worry about it.

You might be able to get away with toggle bolts, but I'd just bite the bullet and put in solid blocking and never worry about it again. You could probably hide most of the patch behind the night stand and, if you're neat about it, it shouldn't be too bad to do.

Why'd you have to come in here with the voice of reason?! :ROFLMAO: I don't want it to keep me up at night so I think this is what I'm going to do.

Even if it doesn't come crashing down, I don't want an anchor to pull on or weaken the drywall like @bj383ss suggested, or have the cleat pull away from the wall a little bit. I'll have to do a bit of drywall patching but I think it's worth it.

As you'll be able to tell I've been wrestling with this — I even drilled a variety of holes and counterbores in the cleats depending on the fastener and placement (lag screw, drywall anchor, GRK construction screw):

IMG_9198.jpg
IMG_9200.jpg

To attach the mating cleat on the cabinets, I used pocket screws. I saw a neat tip from Bourbon Moth Woodworking on YouTube to cut some slots in the 45° miter to have a flat surface to place some F-Clamps while driving the screws:

IMG_9201.jpg

I didn't glue the cleat in, but I'm expecting the 9x screws to be plenty.

Since I've backtracked on the drywall anchors for the left cabinet, I only mounted the right one so far. I still have more work to do on these so this is just a sneak peak:

IMG_9205.jpg
IMG_9206.jpg


I bungled the math a bit on the cleat height. They are pretty close to the mattress height, but I was intending the night stand to be an inch or two lower than it is. I don't think it's worth moving, though.

My wife really wanted me to put legs on these. Partly because I think she doesn't trust they will not fall off the wall, and maybe partly for aesthetic reasons.

I'm glad I held my ground (so far) though, I think having them floating adds to the visual lightness, which was the whole design concept, being very minimalist.

@bj383ss regarding the top coat, I actually haven't put it on yet. I'm still planning Arm-R-Seal unless you have a good reason why I shouldn't! You know a lot more about finishes than I do!

I'm thrilled with the color match of the Danish Oil, though. I was sweating that one and it's just about perfect.

Well, time to go cut a hole in the wall! 😁
 

bdbecker

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I agree with the decision to put a backer board in and anchor to that. You've got young kids and I would bet that there will be a time when one of those little monkeys will decide to go full ninja warrior and hang off the front of the nightstand. While the heavy duty drywall anchors are great for a shear load, they don't do that well in tension (learned from experience). The way you are mounting them to the wall, a percentage of that load will certainly be tension and needs to have that backer board to tie into.
 

bj383ss

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Nick here is a long answer to your finish question. There is no right or wrong I don't think. It comes down to preferences and opinions. Of which everyone has their best. The topcoats I prefer yellow the wood. Which is what I like. I like would to look deeper, darker, and aged. Based on what you have expressed you like your wood to be natural and clear. So my go to topcoat most likely will not achieve that. But have a watch at this video. It explains alot. For me the topcoat decision also comes down to what the piece will be used for and what effort your are willing(or have time for.) to do.


Bret
 
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nicholam77

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Looks grand. Just remember to put one little screw through the nightstand into the wall, just to keep it from jumping off the wall when you find it with your name-body-part-here in the dark.

Thanks, Kay! 110% on the extra screw. I'm planning to put one on each side into stud/backer board.

This video comes to mind (accident right at the beginning)


I agree with the decision to put a backer board in and anchor to that. You've got young kids and I would bet that there will be a time when one of those little monkeys will decide to go full ninja warrior and hang off the front of the nightstand. While the heavy duty drywall anchors are great for a shear load, they don't do that well in tension (learned from experience). The way you are mounting them to the wall, a percentage of that load will certainly be tension and needs to have that backer board to tie into.

😲

This is a real concern, but fortunately our bedroom is the only thing upstairs, so it's kind of sectioned off from the rest of the house and we currently have a baby gate, so there is little reason for them to go up there. I know kids will be kids, but so far my daughter is very respectful of our stuff. My boy... time will tell, but I think he's going to be on the rowdier side. :ROFLMAO: I do like to take care of my stuff, and dings / dents / scratches bother me. But that comes with the territory of having kids. I try not to be too precious about my stuff, and educate them as best I can on what not to do. That being said, I fully expect one of them to go Full Ninja Warrior on something i've made at some point.

Nick here is a long answer to your finish question. There is no right or wrong I don't think. It comes down to preferences and opinions. Of which everyone has their best. The topcoats I prefer yellow the wood. Which is what I like. I like would to look deeper, darker, and aged. Based on what you have expressed you like your wood to be natural and clear. So my go to topcoat most likely will not achieve that. But have a watch at this video. It explains alot. For me the topcoat decision also comes down to what the piece will be used for and what effort your are willing(or have time for.) to do.

Fantastic video! I do like natural, but I'm coming around to the ambered look. The big downside to the General Finishes High Performance water-based poly I've used so much, is it builds up like a muddy film. Durability is A++, the non-yellowing is perfect. But the actual look and feel of the wood I'm less sold on these days. As I've tried some other oils and wiping varnishes I'm starting to prefer that, especially on darker woods. But even on maple, if it's not going to get drinks placed on it I'm more inclined to do an oil-based wiping varnish.

I'm surprised the guy in the video thought Arm-R-Seal was so hard to apply, I've had pretty good results with it.

If anything I think that video gave me confidence that Arm-R-Seal was right for this project. I want the high durability, and it had to be a wipe-on.

It's adding a little sheen compared to the raw Danish Oil, but I think the added protection is worth that tradeoff.


__________________________________________


Got the wall surgery mostly done.

IMG-9220.jpg

Thankfully I had a nice 2x4 in the garage rafters to use for blocking.

IMG-9222.jpg

I screwed a spacer into each side.

IMG-9225.jpg
IMG-9226.jpg

Had to notch one out for some electrical. Then the main backer board got screwed into those spacer blocks, as well as diagonally into the studs with GRK construction screws.

IMG-9228.jpg

And of course I couldn't quite get this done without a trip to the hardware store for drywall screws. :rolleyes:

IMG-9229.jpg

Getting reacquainted with my old friend, PLUS 3.

IMG-9230.jpg

I brought a surprising amount of tools up to the bedroom to work on this + the cleat installation. Shout out to my Systainer stack for keeping things neat and tidy after I'm done for the day. I have my two bosch 12v drills, impact driver, all kinds of screws, drywall saw, multi-tool, chargers, level, screwdrivers, measuring tools, and more all in this small footprint.

IMG-9233.jpg

I need to do another skim coat, prime, and paint. So far adding this backer board has been a good extra 3 hours I wanted to avoid, but I've come this far!

Last night laying down 1st coat of Arm-R-Seal:

IMG-9234.jpg

I'm motivated by how close I am to being finished, so I'm setting a goal of having them on the wall by the weekend.

🍻
 

pat9198

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Tennessee
This is really looking good, and the color match looks spot on from here. I have learned to just load up the tool bag when I'm working in the house, I always need one more thing, then one more.. :lol_hitti
 
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nicholam77

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Hey @nicholam77 I just read through most of your thread and am loving it! So much great work.

I ended up finding your thread because I was searching for solutions to a problem we have in common... I am re-doing my bathroom and I have the identical room layout, tub, tile, and window arrangement as you.

I have a tile job I am not happy with, and have decided to re-do it. How is your PVC window trim working? Any indications of issues, or has it held up well? I currently have tile running into the sill and jams like you wanted to do, but for a few reasons, I'm not happy with it. I was thinking that trimming the window in PVC could be an option, and that thought brought me here. Would you recommend it?

Hey @old_smokey , didn't mean to ignore you, just busy!

I'm surprised anyone reads the beginning of this thread anymore haha. Thanks for checking it out.

I think the PVC window trim works ok. Here in MN we have really big swings in both temperature and humidity from summer to winter, so expansion and contraction is a problem. If you live in a more level-headed climate this might not be as much of an issue, but the main problem I've had with the PVC trim is it opening up a bit in the winter:

IMG_9191.jpg

That's actually a current pic. I need to re-caulk and re-paint it.

If you have a way to construct it where the sill overhangs the casing, that might be better, although in my opinion not look quite as nice or proper.

I don't have any data on if water is getting inside or not. Water does collect on the sill. But my wife and I are both religious about wiping it down immediately. We have a squeegee and a hand towel that are used to dry it (I wipe around the whole casing) every time.

The miters have stayed pretty tight.

IMG_9192.jpg

So my conclusion is: yes it works, but I would caulk and paint it with a gloss paint, and I would glue all the joints. I don't think I glued the joints, I can't remember. And I would wipe it down after use, but that's just me.

Hope that helps!
 

Trapps

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I dig the Systack…

I hope the limit is Full Ninja Warrior. The introduction of compounds in any form, liquid, solid or gas, when combined with the acrobatics, bed jumping, and parkour like activities of FNW, takes things to a whole new level of um,…excitement , yea, excitement.
 

wasfast

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I doubt that PVA glues would have allowed that much expansion/contraction over the seasons. Other caulks like Big Stretch or Extreme Stretch, if applied on the surfaces when constructed may have. Perhaps you can pry it back slightly with a stiff taping knife or thin pry bar to get penetration into the joints.
 

old_smokey

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Hey @old_smokey , didn't mean to ignore you, just busy!

I'm surprised anyone reads the beginning of this thread anymore haha. Thanks for checking it out.

I think the PVC window trim works ok. Here in MN we have really big swings in both temperature and humidity from summer to winter, so expansion and contraction is a problem. If you live in a more level-headed climate this might not be as much of an issue, but the main problem I've had with the PVC trim is it opening up a bit in the winter:

IMG_9191.jpg

That's actually a current pic. I need to re-caulk and re-paint it.

If you have a way to construct it where the sill overhangs the casing, that might be better, although in my opinion not look quite as nice or proper.

I don't have any data on if water is getting inside or not. Water does collect on the sill. But my wife and I are both religious about wiping it down immediately. We have a squeegee and a hand towel that are used to dry it (I wipe around the whole casing) every time.

The miters have stayed pretty tight.

IMG_9192.jpg

So my conclusion is: yes it works, but I would caulk and paint it with a gloss paint, and I would glue all the joints. I don't think I glued the joints, I can't remember. And I would wipe it down after use, but that's just me.

Hope that helps!
Brilliant, thank you for the details! I live in Manitoba so I have the same issues. -40 in the dead of winter, 100 in the summer. It’s rough on houses for sure. I should be able to build out an overhanging sill like you suggested. Once again thank you for the feeeback!
 

kaymccampbell

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This is a real concern, but fortunately our bedroom is the only thing upstairs, so it's kind of sectioned off from the rest of the house and we currently have a baby gate, so there is little reason for them to go up there. I know kids will be kids, but so far my daughter is very respectful of our stuff. My boy... time will tell, but I think he's going to be on the rowdier side. :ROFLMAO: I do like to take care of my stuff, and dings / dents / scratches bother me. But that comes with the territory of having kids. I try not to be too precious about my stuff, and educate them as best I can on what not to do. That being said, I fully expect one of them to go Full Ninja Warrior on something i've made at some point.
Mine were allowed to shred their own room. I told them if they broke it, they'd live with it until they fixed it or moved out. I kept my word.
They did get the genius notion that my room was ok to shred, cause I hadn't specifically mentioned it. I just put them on the deck in the rain, locked the door, and let them think about their transgressions. An hour of that gave them an epiphany of sorts. They finally realized I meant business. One later asked, What if it had been winter and snowing. I said Naked, for 2 hours. Gulp.
 
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nicholam77

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I doubt that PVA glues would have allowed that much expansion/contraction over the seasons. Other caulks like Big Stretch or Extreme Stretch, if applied on the surfaces when constructed may have. Perhaps you can pry it back slightly with a stiff taping knife or thin pry bar to get penetration into the joints.

Yeah I don't think I used glue. Pretty sure I just used painter's caulk and paint, and silicone on the outside where it meets the tile. I was less savvy about building things then. Good idea on trying to wedge some better caulk in there. It's really just that bottom sill-to-casing connection that's a concern.

Brilliant, thank you for the details! I live in Manitoba so I have the same issues. -40 in the dead of winter, 100 in the summer. It’s rough on houses for sure. I should be able to build out an overhanging sill like you suggested. Once again thank you for the feeeback!

No problem! Obviously I think no window in the shower is best, but at least in my case it's nice to have the natural light. Ok if you're from Manitoba then you know "real winter" haha. Good luck with your project!

The first one is a trap to get you to have more. Our second one is nicknamed 'Smasher' for a reason. But, by putting in that backer board, you should be okay!

Ha, for sure!

I just put them on the deck in the rain, locked the door, and let them think about their transgressions. An hour of that gave them an epiphany of sorts. They finally realized I meant business. One later asked, What if it had been winter and snowing. I said Naked, for 2 hours. Gulp.

Nearly spit out my coffee upon reading this :ROFLMAO:

Kay, I see you're in upstate NY — are you anywhere near that big storm I keep hearing about?


_______________________________


I did get the night stands 100% completed as of last night. I'll post some final pics and wrap up when I have a chance.

🍻
 
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nicholam77

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Night Stands — final install and reveal

What hole?!

IMG-9262.jpg

Not a perfect patch job, but most of it is behind the cabinet so I didn't scrutinize too much.

A look at the wall cleat with 2x lag screws, and 4x GRK construction screws. As DIY dads around the world would say "That ain't goin' nowhere!"

IMG-9263.jpg

Next I drilled the holes for the drawer pulls on the drill press. At first I was annoyed they didn't fit with the fence, but then I realized I could just flip it around. :ROFLMAO:

IMG-9274.jpg

Drilling through MDF scraps on the top and bottom left nice and clean holes through the veneered surface.

IMG-9275.jpg

I've detailed how I align drawer fronts before, but I don't expect anyone reading now to go dig for it so I might as well share in case it helps someone. First I drill holes for the two screws that will attach the drawer front into the drawer.

Then I screw the attaching screws through the drawer until just the tip pokes out.


IMG-9284.jpg
IMG-9280.jpg

Then I reinstall the drawer in the cabinet and put the drawer front in place.

To set an even spacing, I align it to the bottom and one side, and then fill the opposite gaps with playing cards. I used a Cards Against Humanity set for my table saw cart way back in the day, so using it again here as a little throwback.

IMG-9276.jpg
IMG-9277.jpg

Once no more cards can be inserted, I take them out, diving the piles in half, and put each half in their requisite sides.

IMG-9278.jpg

Now the reveal should be equal all around.

With it balancing in place, I push on the drawer front against the two attachment screws, which will leave a small impression at each screw contact point.

Then take the drawer face off and mark them better with a scratch awl.

IMG-9282.jpg

And carefully drill, making sure not to go through the other side!

IMG-9283.jpg

And then theoretically you line these holes up with the screw tips, and screw them in the rest of the way. Usually the alignment maintains pretty well. If it's off slightly, the Blum slides I am using have some adjustment to them.

Final Installed Pics:

IMG-9302.jpg
IMG-9292.jpg
IMG-9295.jpg
IMG-9298.jpg
IMG-9296.jpg
IMG-9301.jpg
IMG-9304.jpg
IMG-9305.jpg


I am happy to be finished with these, and will likely take a hiatus from building stuff for a bit. Need to catch my breath.

Thanks to everyone who followed along, and gave encouragement and advice along the way.

🍻
 

bj383ss

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Absolutely Fantastic Nick! Well worth all your trials and tribulations during the project. I think you have definitely earned yourself a break. Just don't stay gone too long.

Bret
 
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nicholam77

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