Hi All: I didn’t find another set but I did find a #360 Ratchet to add to my collection.
Frank Mossberg Pressed Steel Socket Sets
- Thread starter Ayrhead
- Start date
WisJim
Well-known member
I found an old Crisco can of stamped steel sockets and from the markings that I can find, it appears that they are Mossberg. The 21/32 cleaned up OK, but some of the others are pretty grungy. I really don't need another rabbit hole to fall into.
It might be a fun hole to venture into…I found an old Crisco can of stamped steel sockets and from the markings that I can find, it appears that they are Mossberg. The 21/32 cleaned up OK, but some of the others are pretty grungy. I really don't need another rabbit hole to fall into.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
HAHA!
"I don't blame you!", "I don't blame you," "I don't blame you," "I don't blame you," I shout from well inside the hole.
The fixed double offset socket wrench and the extension piece to the left of the 21/32" socket (denuded of its rustproofing!) are more interesting and more uncommon than the sockets. What is the number on that "socket" on the extension? (EDIT: 6627? And is the number forged-in or spot-welded in on a tab?) And is the whole thing welded or jammed onto the hexagonal end of the longer piece?
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Flathead_Fred
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2025
- Messages
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I have been searching for a Mossberg 21/32 square and 15/32, and 1-3/32 hex.I found an old Crisco can of stamped steel sockets and from the markings that I can find, it appears that they are Mossberg. The 21/32 cleaned up OK, but some of the others are pretty grungy. I really don't need another rabbit hole to fall into.
While I am posting, also some Walden Worcester pressed steel sockets. Hex 17/32, 19/32, 5/8, and 25/32.
Also have some duplicates of other sizes if someone needs some singles.
By the way, great save.
WisJim
Well-known member
The number is most likely 6627, although it looks like 662T, but the first 6 is also poorly or double stamped. The number looks forged in place and the whole thing looks like one piece, certainly not just jammed on, and not obviously welded either.
I’m up here in Ontariariarioooo, Canada. I’ll take a look but I might have the 3 Mossberg sockets. I’ll take a look…
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks for taking the time to further inspect that, Jim. I'd Iove to see some better photos of that piece, especially that end, if you get a chance. What is the opening? A hex service opening? Or square? Frankly, I don't recall seeing anything like that before. Not with that hexagonal shoulder, I'm not even sure what the purpose would be. I guess to grab it with a wrench and turn it from there. And it's not a recognizable P/N.
I found the 2 squares but not the hex.
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WisJim
Well-known member
I'll get more pictures of it for you tomorrow. I suppose it might not be Mossberg, and just happened to be in the can of stuff. It was in a toolbox of mostly carpentry and woodworking tools that I got earlier this year, and I just rediscovered it today when trying to organize my shop space. The "organizing" has become quite a process as I am trying to sort and inventory my "collections" and I'm discovering things I don't recall having.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
^ Know the feeling. No urgency, obviously.
WisJim
Well-known member
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
^ Thanks, Jim. So, clearly not an extension with that hex service opening, but a long and very oddly constructed socket. It may not be press-fit or welded, as I suggested, but it almost looks hand-forged the way the bell of the socket meets that hex shoulder. You'd know better from there with it in your hand, but from here, that looks like cast malleable iron, possibly forged, but not pressed steel. If you would indulge me just a few more questions..., is the square female opening 1/2"? And is the O.D. of that square end 11/16"? That would make it interchangeable with pressed steel stuff, despite its apparent alternate composition.
WisJim
Well-known member
The square female opening is 7/16", and the outside is 11/16".
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
^ Thanks.
I managed to find another Frank Mossberg #14 pressed steel socket set. This one is slightly different than my other sets where the wrenches are on a tray that fits inside the box. These wrenches fit on the inside of the lid of the box. I did a quick search on the internet and The site Alloy Artifacts has a section on Frank Mossberg. I attached a page from Alloy Artifacts at the end of the pictures. It says that the first #14 set started with have the wrenches on the lid of the box.
The set is not 100% complete yet. I need to find a couple of pieces to complete it.
Also the height and width of this box is not the same as the other #14 box sets that I own. This box is slightly wider as well as about 1/2” lower that the other #14 boxes I have.
The set is not 100% complete yet. I need to find a couple of pieces to complete it.
Also the height and width of this box is not the same as the other #14 box sets that I own. This box is slightly wider as well as about 1/2” lower that the other #14 boxes I have.
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Here are 2 more of the #14 sets that I own. They both have the wooden tray. The first set still has the 3 slot bits as does the set that I just acquired. The last set also has the wooden tray but doesn’t have the space allocated for the 3 slot bits. Also this last set, the stampings on the sockets are much bigger than the two earlier sets. There are more pieces in the trays that actually do not belong there. Because I don’t have much space I put those extra pieces in these sets. I greatly appreciate all of the input and help I’ve received on supplying me with information about the Frank Mossberg Pressed Steel socket sets from the garage journal members. Hope you enjoy the pictures.
Harry
Harry
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Since acquiring my last set a couple of weeks ago, it got me thinking about this question I asked back in 2022. This set I believe is the oldest of the # 14’s as it has the DOE Wrenches in the top lid, not in a separate tray and it has the 3 flathead slot screw bits in it. The stampings in this box are about a 1/8” font size with that Mossberg logo below it on both the hex and square sockets… there were also a couple of extra hex sockets that had the size on one side and the Mossberg logo on a side right beside it but the logo was not horizontal, it was vertical. This box is also wider and shorter that the other boxes. 3”x 9 1/2”x 15”
The next set that I think might be slightly newer is the set that has the wrenches in a removable tray, the same size font as well as the Mossberg logo below the socket size.
The set that I think follows that one is the set with no screw bits in it but it still has the removable wrench tray. The font size of these sockets is about 3/16”. and the Mossberg is off a side next to the side with font print. The logo is also horizontal. Both of those boxes have the same dimension but it is not the same as the first box. 3 3/4” x 9” x 16”. Now I have some sockets where the Mossberg logo is off to the right of the socket font side and some to the left…
I don’t know if that designates a different chronological order or not.
Besides that… I have one hex socket that is shorter than the rest. It has the 1/8” font with the Mossberg logo below it.i don’t know where that one fits in. I’m thinking Mossberg made a set with shorter sockets and I happen to have just the one socket.
Lastly I have one hex socket where the font is 3/16” and the Mossberg logo is on the opposite side of the socket horizontally and this is a small dimple on that same side… I’m thinking that this socket may be the newest of my pressed steel sockets. I only have the one of those sockets. Hopefully the pictures show what I’m trying to describe…
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It wouldn’t take more than 10 pics.. here are the rest.
If anyonelse wants to share their opinion on what I think might be a way to discern the order that the sockets were produced, I would like to hear about it. I didn’t find anywhere else where this topic was brought up and if it is somewhere… then I apologize for putting this post(s) up…
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Trying to piece together a No10set. Maybe missing the 1-5/32 sparkplug socket, though I don’t see how it would fit in the metal box. Every piece but the universal is marked <M>.
And that brings me to my question: how does the universal fit anything but the sockets?
It does not fit into the extension, and the square hole in the ratchet is too large. The only solution I see is to use a nonexistant 1/2square socket.Am I missing something?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
11/16" to be exact, for turning the sockets from the outside like male drive tangs. You were onto the solution. You use another socket as a shim. Insert the drive tang and it sits inside the female drive opening flush. Insert the universal joint drive tang inside that.
Incidentally, that's not a Mossberg universal joint, or not one that I am aware of anyway. However, the actual Mossberg uni joint has the same design. Same solution. Shim socket.
EDIT: I would take photos, but I'm not home, and, I think you'll see what I mean without photos.
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Thanks to you both. I had read AA, and did not see anything addressing the issue. I had a 15/32sq socket that sort of worked. I’ll see if I have a 11/16sq. The guy who invented the male-female universal was a hero.
I have two shiny universals like that and a heavier plain steel one. None are marked.
I have two shiny universals like that and a heavier plain steel one. None are marked.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I thought I posted photos years ago but apparently not. Just this...
You don't need a socket with a square service opening. Any socket, including hex, will do. You're using the 1/2-inch square female drive opening.
I just got home. I'll take some photos.
You don't need a socket with a square service opening. Any socket, including hex, will do. You're using the 1/2-inch square female drive opening.
I just got home. I'll take some photos.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Okay, but that doesn’t allow for the no351ext, the design of which seems to me to be the weak point in versatility.
You can do this
though both male ends meeting inside one female makes for a treacherous joining (I hope I don’t get cancelled for saying so).
But you should be able to do this
(cowgirl); you can’t because the inner walls of the ext are just one RCH too tight, and no amount of lube will change that. Yet somehow, they managed to get a 1/2dr stud in the other end.
And you also can’t add extensions to each other for the the same reason (I will eschew the analogy).
These are supposedly from the libertine twenties, but there’s a startlingly rigid approach to modular tools.
You can do this
though both male ends meeting inside one female makes for a treacherous joining (I hope I don’t get cancelled for saying so).
But you should be able to do this
(cowgirl); you can’t because the inner walls of the ext are just one RCH too tight, and no amount of lube will change that. Yet somehow, they managed to get a 1/2dr stud in the other end.
And you also can’t add extensions to each other for the the same reason (I will eschew the analogy).
These are supposedly from the libertine twenties, but there’s a startlingly rigid approach to modular tools.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Yes it does. (And the extension is the most versatile piece in the set. You can drive it female or male, and you can connect male or female!) You asked how this set works, I told you how, and I've shown you, but you seem to be skeptically resisting.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Yes. I'm just not going to stop showing you photos of a socket inserted into the ratchet as a shim until you try it!
Apparently. It should have a 1/2-inch solid male drive stud with an 11/16-inch square male drive step or shoulder on one end, and an 11/16-inch male square drive stud with a 1/2-inch female opening on the other end.
3baygarage
Well-known member
Not that it affects things much, but I think your u joint could be, could be a Ray. Looks sort of like it anyway.
But I did try it with every combination of two extensions and three universals! Neither extension would accept a 1/2sq male stud from the other, nor from any of the three universals. I’ve since doubled down on filing, with only marginal success.Yes. I'm just not going to stop showing you photos of a socket inserted into the ratchet as a shim until you try it!
Apparently. It should have a 1/2-inch solid male drive stud with an 11/16-inch square male drive step or shoulder on one end, and an 11/16-inch male square drive stud with a 1/2-inch female opening on the other end.
It shouldn’t affect things much, right? A half-inch square should be a half-inch square.
I have two of those and a dark plain steel one that is heavier-bodied.
I have filed all burrs and spalling, and created chamfers where there never were any, and just managed to get ONE of the extenions to accept the 1/2sq male drive stud of the Ray-ish universal and the 1/2sq male drive stud of the other extension. The other extension refuses to accept anything.I’ve filed inside the female and outside the male ends of all extemsions and universals as much as I’m going to, and more than I think I should have.
The extension on the left has rounder corners - not just at the opening, but down the tube.
That’s the one that still won’t accept any stud. The one on the right with more squared corners does accept the studs of the other extension and the Ray-ish universal now, grudgingly.It can’t be that Frank Mossberg intended customers to do the final fitting of these things, so I remain puzzled at what the real situation is. Whether by design or by quality control, I remain dubious of these extensions.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
@LesserSon
If this is your first, real, practical, benchtop foray with pressed steel era Mossberg tools, tools made by Mossberg, and others, I think you're going to continue to be frustrated applying expectations of machined and hot-forged era to them. It sounds like one or both of the extensions were poorly made or deformed, etc. This is not at all unusual. Among all my wood box pressed steel era sets I have more than a few pieces that just won't fit. And going across sets, and across production periods - all 1/2, all pressed steel - is even less precise, more suboptimal. I don't remember which, I will have to experiment later, but I think I have a few Mossberg sets (early Auto-Cle, later No. 14, and set made for someone else branded Triumph) where the pieces are not compatible. I don't know which thread anymore, but I am sure we have had similar discussion among the larger group. It's kind of notoriously imperfect.
If this is your first, real, practical, benchtop foray with pressed steel era Mossberg tools, tools made by Mossberg, and others, I think you're going to continue to be frustrated applying expectations of machined and hot-forged era to them. It sounds like one or both of the extensions were poorly made or deformed, etc. This is not at all unusual. Among all my wood box pressed steel era sets I have more than a few pieces that just won't fit. And going across sets, and across production periods - all 1/2, all pressed steel - is even less precise, more suboptimal. I don't remember which, I will have to experiment later, but I think I have a few Mossberg sets (early Auto-Cle, later No. 14, and set made for someone else branded Triumph) where the pieces are not compatible. I don't know which thread anymore, but I am sure we have had similar discussion among the larger group. It's kind of notoriously imperfect.
THANK-YOU, Lugz. I’m glad I’m not the only one with flawed pieces. It may actually explain why they survived in fairly good condition - rarely used!
I have two other boxes - another steel, that I think is Ray with many Ray pieces and a Ray ratchet, and a wooden one (missing the top, of course) that I may have previously identified, but since forgot. It’s too small for a Mossberg No14, about the right size for a No10, but the wood-strip divider layout doesn’t look right. That one has a mix of mfrs sockets and an Auto-Cle wrench (purchased separately). I sometimes have bought a handful of extruded sockets without paying much attention to sizes (which are often unreadable at the flea, anyway), in the hopes of sorting them into sets later.
Now I’m trying to get that done, and then purge what I don’t need.
Next break in the rain, I’ll set up my derusting rig outdoors and get the couple dozen accumulated “extra” sockets cleaned up. Monday or maybe better, Tuesday, when BLO can bake in the sun.
I intend to make a top for that wood box, but want to be positive what it should look like (the No14 set makes me think of the cotter pin tool and a few pressed-steel DOEs hung inside - maybe that’s for another box.)
I have two other boxes - another steel, that I think is Ray with many Ray pieces and a Ray ratchet, and a wooden one (missing the top, of course) that I may have previously identified, but since forgot. It’s too small for a Mossberg No14, about the right size for a No10, but the wood-strip divider layout doesn’t look right. That one has a mix of mfrs sockets and an Auto-Cle wrench (purchased separately). I sometimes have bought a handful of extruded sockets without paying much attention to sizes (which are often unreadable at the flea, anyway), in the hopes of sorting them into sets later.
Now I’m trying to get that done, and then purge what I don’t need.
Next break in the rain, I’ll set up my derusting rig outdoors and get the couple dozen accumulated “extra” sockets cleaned up. Monday or maybe better, Tuesday, when BLO can bake in the sun.
I intend to make a top for that wood box, but want to be positive what it should look like (the No14 set makes me think of the cotter pin tool and a few pressed-steel DOEs hung inside - maybe that’s for another box.)
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I pulled out my early Auto-Cle (QMS) set, a later Mossberg No. 14 set, and a Triumph-branded set (interesting thread in its own right) that I suspect Mossberg of supplying all pieces for, including sockets, ratchet, and extension.
Pic 1: Brighter steel finish pieces from early QMS Auto-Cle set on left, blackened finish pieces from Mossberg No. 14 on right. Note how "identical" the knuckle joints look! The male drive studs on the later Mossberg universal joint will fit inside the female drive opening of the earlier Auto-Cle sockets, but the female opening in the later Mossberg extension will not accept the male drive studs of the earlier Auto-Cle era universal joint or extension.
Pic 2: The male drive stud of the later Mossberg extension will fit in the female drive openings of the early Auto-Cle sockets
And yet the sockets, universal joint and extension of the Mossberg No. 14 set all fit each other.
Pics 3 & 4: The male end of the Triumph extension will not fit inside the female end of the Mossberg extension, but the male end of the Mossberg extension will fit the Triumph sockets.
Crimping that 11/16-inch square outer drive into the end while preserving the 1/2-inch interior drive seems to be the culprit.
Pic 1: Brighter steel finish pieces from early QMS Auto-Cle set on left, blackened finish pieces from Mossberg No. 14 on right. Note how "identical" the knuckle joints look! The male drive studs on the later Mossberg universal joint will fit inside the female drive opening of the earlier Auto-Cle sockets, but the female opening in the later Mossberg extension will not accept the male drive studs of the earlier Auto-Cle era universal joint or extension.
Pic 2: The male drive stud of the later Mossberg extension will fit in the female drive openings of the early Auto-Cle sockets
And yet the sockets, universal joint and extension of the Mossberg No. 14 set all fit each other.
Pics 3 & 4: The male end of the Triumph extension will not fit inside the female end of the Mossberg extension, but the male end of the Mossberg extension will fit the Triumph sockets.
Crimping that 11/16-inch square outer drive into the end while preserving the 1/2-inch interior drive seems to be the culprit.
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Mintgrun
Well-known member
Funny, I was going to bump this thread when I brought this No. 355 ratchet home on Friday. It's the first one I've seen with an 11/16" opening. It came with a 27/32" socket and a No. 101 combination 27/32" 21/32" socket. I also bought a 7/8" socket I'd previously seen/left at a Habitat store. The finish on the ratchet/socket is remarkably fresh for such an old tool.
It's pretty cool, the way the sockets also work with a half-drive ratchet. I have one of those as well as a couple of speeders, but that's about it for my assortment of Mossberg tooling; aside from a few wrenches.
EDIT-
Here is what AA has to sAy about the 355 (although there are other examples discussed on that page).
Fig. 68. Mossberg No. 355 Ratchet, ca. 1915-1916.
Fig. 68 shows the Mossberg No. 355 non-reversible ratchet from the No. 30 set, stamped "Frank Mossberg Co." and "Attleboro, Mass. U.S.A." with the M-Diamond logo, and with a "Pat. Pend." notice.
The overall length is 8.6 inches, and the finish is black paint.
The No. 355 ratchet is similar to the well-known Mossberg No. 350 Ratchet, but is slightly shorter and does not have a reversing mechanism.
The patent corresponding to the pending status is probably patent #1,165,995, filed in 1915 and issued late in that year. This patent describes the construction of a simple and inexpensive ratchet and is best known for its use with the Mossberg 645 Ford Reverse and Brake Ratchet.
The identification of the patent for the No. 355 model is somewhat uncertain, as no examples of this ratchet are known to have a patent date marking. However, since the No. 355 ratchet was intended as a lower-cost model, and the ratchet is known to have been offered as early as 1916, the #1,165,995 patent seems to be the likely choice.
A later example of the No. 355 ratchet can be seen as the Mossberg No. 355 Ratchet from a No. 13 socket set.
Excerpt taken from here--
Tom
It's pretty cool, the way the sockets also work with a half-drive ratchet. I have one of those as well as a couple of speeders, but that's about it for my assortment of Mossberg tooling; aside from a few wrenches.
EDIT-
Here is what AA has to sAy about the 355 (although there are other examples discussed on that page).
No. 355 11/16-Drive (Non-Reversible) Ratchet
Fig. 68. Mossberg No. 355 Ratchet, ca. 1915-1916.
Fig. 68 shows the Mossberg No. 355 non-reversible ratchet from the No. 30 set, stamped "Frank Mossberg Co." and "Attleboro, Mass. U.S.A." with the M-Diamond logo, and with a "Pat. Pend." notice.
The overall length is 8.6 inches, and the finish is black paint.
The No. 355 ratchet is similar to the well-known Mossberg No. 350 Ratchet, but is slightly shorter and does not have a reversing mechanism.
The patent corresponding to the pending status is probably patent #1,165,995, filed in 1915 and issued late in that year. This patent describes the construction of a simple and inexpensive ratchet and is best known for its use with the Mossberg 645 Ford Reverse and Brake Ratchet.
The identification of the patent for the No. 355 model is somewhat uncertain, as no examples of this ratchet are known to have a patent date marking. However, since the No. 355 ratchet was intended as a lower-cost model, and the ratchet is known to have been offered as early as 1916, the #1,165,995 patent seems to be the likely choice.
A later example of the No. 355 ratchet can be seen as the Mossberg No. 355 Ratchet from a No. 13 socket set.
Excerpt taken from here--
The Frank Mossberg Company
An article on the Frank Mossberg Company and its tools.
alloy-artifacts.org
Tom
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chasinfram
Active member
After a quick search on the internet, Alloy Artifacts.org identified this as a flex extension made by C.M.B wrench company… it’s pretty sweet!!
I’m wondering if the sockets are Mossberg or perhaps a different manufacturer… it’s definitely a nice piece. Just not sure on its value.
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A little further dig and I think that is a socket set from cmb
