Also costco has a strict "no tip" policy for the tire shop, so it really is no cost to you.
Import Tire Machine/ Balancer Combos Or Good Used?
- Thread starter Renegade1LI
- Start date
Also costco has a strict "no tip" policy for the tire shop, so it really is no cost to you.
djbmw
Well-known member
Costco, at least here, will only mount and balance tires that you purchase through them. Unfortunately that means you'll be paying major markups and have a limited selection (no trailer tires, ATV tires, Tractor tires, etc.). For our 4 cars, 3 trailers, 4 ATV's, 3 tractors, and many other wheeled vehicles,.. the cost would be asinine. Pair that with being at their mercy for availability,.. you can see how it only makes sense for those that are generally not perusing this forum
Costco rarely has the tires I want. Not sure if they can special order stuff. The same problem exists with the staff working as fast as possible and not balancing properly, as my vehicles are abnormally sensitive to balance issues. The 1 hour round trip doesn't help either.
If you only have 2 or 3 vehicles, I totally get it - not worth buying the equipment.
OTOH, I've got a vehicle problem, with a dozen registered / insured and something like three dozen sets of wheels / tires. We bracket race street cars (NHRA quarter-mile) so there are some sets of drag radials in there too. Given those quantities, I should have bought the tire machines many years ago!
Costco rarely has the tires I want. Not sure if they can special order stuff. The same problem exists with the staff working as fast as possible and not balancing properly, as my vehicles are abnormally sensitive to balance issues. The 1 hour round trip doesn't help either.
They can order pretty much anything. Tire Rack is one of their big suppliers.
And my costco drive is 96 miles over curvy mountain single lane roads. Still worth it!
Interesting! I'll keep that in mind. I usually order from either Tire Rack or Discount Tire, and had been going to DT for the mount & balance. Same 1 hour round trip, plus usually 1-2 hours waiting as they almost never are able to do the work immediately. My outlaws get their tires from Costco and have had good results.
djbmw
Well-known member
With that many sets I would imagine/hope/encourage you to get a wholesale account with whoever your primary or secondary tire importer is for your area. For most passenger tires (17" to 19" in standard width and aspect) I'm spending in the $85 to $120/each usd range (this was discussed in This thread).
Minor update on the tire machine & balancer combo. I am heavily leaning towards Katool as noted above.
However, I changed my mind on which combination to get. Now I'm eyeing the same KT-T830 tire machine, but with the KT-B750 balancer. The fancier balancer is quite a bit more, but has some features I think would be very useful.
This pair is $2600 / OBO, erasing the savings vs Vevor, but is a significant upgrade for basically the same price. I'm going to use the "Make Offer" option for grins, worst that can happen is they'll decline.
Oddly, while I was finally able to find dimensions for the tire machine, I cannot find exact dimensions for the balancer. Same as @ctandc72 I don't have room in my shop, and it's going to be a Jenga/Tetris adventure to stuff them in somewhere. Really wish Katool would have the same drawing for the balancer, as provided for the tire machine (see below).
autool.us
However, I changed my mind on which combination to get. Now I'm eyeing the same KT-T830 tire machine, but with the KT-B750 balancer. The fancier balancer is quite a bit more, but has some features I think would be very useful.
First, it has the auto-width select, where you slide a thingy out of the balancer and touch it to the side of the wheel, and the balancer reads this automatically. The cheaper balancer requires you to enter the numbers manually using up/down arrows.
Second, the fancy balancer has a laser guide to show where to apply the weights, in theory making the weight application slightly more foolproof. I like this a lot.
This pair is $2600 / OBO, erasing the savings vs Vevor, but is a significant upgrade for basically the same price. I'm going to use the "Make Offer" option for grins, worst that can happen is they'll decline.
Oddly, while I was finally able to find dimensions for the tire machine, I cannot find exact dimensions for the balancer. Same as @ctandc72 I don't have room in my shop, and it's going to be a Jenga/Tetris adventure to stuff them in somewhere. Really wish Katool would have the same drawing for the balancer, as provided for the tire machine (see below).
KATOOL KT-T830 Tire Changer & KT-B750 Wheel Balancer Combo
KATOOL KT-T830 tire changer and KT-B750 wheel balancer combo. Features assist arms, bead blast system, and ±1g precision balancing for automotive shops and garages.
autool.us
Here's a video showing the B760, which AFAICT is the same as the B750 exccept the 750 has the big protective shield.
Video is watchable at 2x speed, and you only need to see the first few minutes to understand how it works. The rest of the video is the guy balancing all 4 wheels/tires.
Video is watchable at 2x speed, and you only need to see the first few minutes to understand how it works. The rest of the video is the guy balancing all 4 wheels/tires.
djbmw
Well-known member
Those "features" are only useful if you hire people to work the machines for you. None of my 3 balancers have those features... nor would I really fimd much value in them. Especially not $600 worth!
I hear ya. But, I also watched a video on the cheaper balancer where you manually beep up/down to enter everything, and it looked like a PITA. The cheaper balancer also requires you to beep up/down to the desired mode, where the nicer one has buttons to press for each mode. I think I'll be using them enough that I'll appreciate the convenience (ditto the laser aligner). I'm more in the camp of "buy once, cry once"... I've been burned in the past trying to save a buck and wishing I had just spent the $$ up front.
I do worry about the front pad marring aluminum wheels with nice clearcoat finishes. I want to get the "pin plate" that presses into the lug holes, shown back in post #4 on this thread, but OMG those are crazy expensive. Hoping I can find a used set for less. The pin plate is the BEST way to clamp the wheel against the back cone. I need zero vibrations through at least 120mph.
djbmw
Well-known member
Those plates are only for lug centric rims... not hub centric. I dont know which rims you have but most that i seem to work with are hub centric... so those plates wouldnt work.I hear ya. But, I also watched a video on the cheaper balancer where you manually beep up/down to enter everything, and it looked like a PITA. The cheaper balancer also requires you to beep up/down to the desired mode, where the nicer one has buttons to press for each mode. I think I'll be using them enough that I'll appreciate the convenience (ditto the laser aligner). I'm more in the camp of "buy once, cry once"... I've been burned in the past trying to save a buck and wishing I had just spent the $$ up front.
I do worry about the front pad marring aluminum wheels with nice clearcoat finishes. I want to get the "pin plate" that presses into the lug holes, shown back in post #4 on this thread, but OMG those are crazy expensive. Hoping I can find a used set for less. The pin plate is the BEST way to clamp the wheel against the back cone. I need zero vibrations through at least 120mph.
As for adjusting the balancing machine settings... it takes me about 30 seconds per set of wheels.
As for the laser... i thought about buying a laser add on from Aliexpress for $10... but still didnt have enough need to pull the trigger. Top dead center is where you mount the weights so... kinda hard to mess up. If the rim is a strange shape, i use chalk to mark where the weight needs to go (top center) and rotate the rim to where I can access it. The laser wouldnt help in that scenario.
Having said that, you'll be happy either way with any of the machines.
Regarding scuffing up the rims... the tire machine is far more likely to do that vs the balancer. Its all about paying attention, using technique (and plastic coated duck heads, pry bars, rim clamps help), and taking your time.
The laser part for where the weight goes is a gimmick. It's not that hard to figure out on your own.
The automatic width thing usually using a big deal to put in manually but maybe the cheap machines made that harder then it should be.
The automatic width thing usually using a big deal to put in manually but maybe the cheap machines made that harder then it should be.
The plates do work with hubcentric wheels, where the wheel is centered by the rear hub bore. The pin plate simulates pressure from the lug bolts/nuts just as they would on the vehicle. A number of vehicle manufacturers specify using these for dealer/factory service, there are some threads on wheel forums which get into the details. However, I'm not sure there is enough advantage to justify the insane cost.
The laser may be a gimmick, but it's an awfully helpful one!
djbmw
Well-known member
Pin flange plates do not rely on the wheel bore at all though - they rely on the studs. You should never balance a hubcentric wheel assembly using the studs alone.The plates do work with hubcentric wheels, where the wheel is centered by the rear hub bore. The pin plate simulates pressure from the lug bolts/nuts just as they would on the vehicle. A number of vehicle manufacturers specify using these for dealer/factory service, there are some threads on wheel forums which get into the details. However, I'm not sure there is enough advantage to justify the insane cost.
The laser may be a gimmick, but it's an awfully helpful one!
Hubcentric rims rely on the precise fit of the bore to the hub - the studs are simply there to snug everything up.
Lug centric rims rely on the lugs and lugs alone... your bore can be any size so long as it fits.
djbmw
Well-known member
The Audi "service bulletin" tells techs how to take the cheap/backyard mechanic way out... instead of properly fixing a banged up bore (by having the rim machined to spec to correct the issue).Random factory TSB's below. Audi uses hubcentric wheels.
Don't shoot the messenger...
The service bulletin has spelling errors in it as well - "cantering cone" (instead of centering cone). It likely was published by some local dealer... and not Audi North America. Either way, it is only suggesting the use of a pin flange plate instead of properly fixing the issue, to get the customer out the door as quickly as possible.
Just because you "can".. doesnt mean you should.
Many of us have welded **** together when we should have had the part replaced or machined... but it doesnt make it "right".
The pin plate is usually only needed for worst case scenario when something about the rim won't let it mount properly the normal way with cones. In general no matter what type of hub mounting a rim is a cone centers the rim, the mating surface of the rim is clamped against the mating surface of the balancer, there's not much to it.
Not sure why Toyota had that back in 96 unless possibly they has something going on with one of their vehicles that made issues more pronounced and they were trying to avoid potential balancing issues.
Not sure why Toyota had that back in 96 unless possibly they has something going on with one of their vehicles that made issues more pronounced and they were trying to avoid potential balancing issues.
The pin plate serves multiple purposes, one of which is eliminating contact with the wheel face. For expensive wheels which have a painted or clearcoat finish, that you wish to remain undamaged, the pin plate is THE ONLY way to press the wheel against the rear cone or collet. The standard balancer method shoves a pad against the painted surfaces. Also, some wheels do not have a face shaped properly for the pad to press against. The pin plate cures all of those problems. I have a LOT of wheels that I do not want a pad pressing against. Maybe your wheels aren't like that.
Hubcentric wheels should use a collet or shallow-angle cone to keep the wheel exactly perpendicular to the center shaft of the balancer. For vehicles that are not particularly sensitive to imbalance, this doesn't matter much. Vehicles that are sensitive (like mine), and/or dealing with vehicle speeds far above the 85mph street legal limit in USA (racing use), need additional steps to get the balance absolutely perfect.
I don't want to derail this thread into a "wheel balance best practices" though... that should be a completely separate thread.
Hubcentric wheels should use a collet or shallow-angle cone to keep the wheel exactly perpendicular to the center shaft of the balancer. For vehicles that are not particularly sensitive to imbalance, this doesn't matter much. Vehicles that are sensitive (like mine), and/or dealing with vehicle speeds far above the 85mph street legal limit in USA (racing use), need additional steps to get the balance absolutely perfect.
I don't want to derail this thread into a "wheel balance best practices" though... that should be a completely separate thread.
The pin plate serves multiple purposes, one of which is eliminating contact with the wheel face. For expensive wheels which have a painted or clearcoat finish, that you wish to remain undamaged, the pin plate is THE ONLY way to press the wheel against the rear cone or collet. The standard balancer method shoves a pad against the painted surfaces. Also, some wheels do not have a face shaped properly for the pad to press against. The pin plate cures all of those problems. I have a LOT of wheels that I do not want a pad pressing against. Maybe your wheels aren't like that.
Hubcentric wheels should use a collet or shallow-angle cone to keep the wheel exactly perpendicular to the center shaft of the balancer. For vehicles that are not particularly sensitive to imbalance, this doesn't matter much. Vehicles that are sensitive (like mine), and/or dealing with vehicle speeds far above the 85mph street legal limit in USA (racing use), need additional steps to get the balance absolutely perfect.
I don't want to derail this thread into a "wheel balance best practices" though... that should be a completely separate thread.
Some of that is the case I mentioned about rims that won't mount the normal way with cones. I have no problem with the pad pressing on the rim if I'm the one who mounted it on the machine. Like djbmw said rims are far more likely to get damaged by a tire machine then how they're mounted on a balancer.
You're getting into situations when balancing is that important that most people wouldn't be trusting a Chinese balancer for.
Pin plates are used with a cone. They are used to improve the consistency of the cone mounting, not as the only mounting method.
I bought a Haweka set at an auction cheaply ($200 AUD) but it didn't have the studs for my wheels and those were going to cost me heaps more. I also realised it really doesn't solve the problem with my steel nut-centric wheels as the primary method is still the cone, the plates are just an assistance. Because of this, I sold them. I had each plate listed (four of them) for $500 AUD each for a long time. Someone eventually messaged me and I sold the whole set with two sets of studs for $1000 AUD.
I couldn't see how the slight play in everything would solve my balancing issues, each pin is pretty solid to the plate but then there is the play between the balancer shaft and plate as well as that fact I needed a reducer for the shaft. It would be fine for hub-centric wheels.
djbmw
Well-known member
I must apologize to gsxr - it looks like the terminology has evolved over the years and there's now two different types/styles of plates.
The one that I'm familiar with, and I was referring to, uses studs to mount the wheel to the machine (you bolt the rim to the hub that's been mounted to the balancer, using lug nuts):
The one you're referring to still uses the back cone but, instead of the front pressure cup pressing the rim onto the cone, you use cone-shaped pins that fit into each lug hole - applying front pressure onto the rim, seating it onto the rear cone. You still use your wing but now this device replaced the cup.
So,.. instead of potentially getting a plastic marring mark on the face of the rim, you've moved that potential to the lug holes instead!?
These are your machines and your rims - as long as you take care you you shouldn't be making any marks with the front pressure cup. I suppose in a high volume shop with wing nut bearings that are sticking and not spinning as freely,... I can see the pressure cup binding to the wing nut and causing marks on the rim face when you go to snug it up. Seems like a costly investment to avoid a "potential" future scuff mark that can be rubbed off.
The one that I'm familiar with, and I was referring to, uses studs to mount the wheel to the machine (you bolt the rim to the hub that's been mounted to the balancer, using lug nuts):
The one you're referring to still uses the back cone but, instead of the front pressure cup pressing the rim onto the cone, you use cone-shaped pins that fit into each lug hole - applying front pressure onto the rim, seating it onto the rear cone. You still use your wing but now this device replaced the cup.
So,.. instead of potentially getting a plastic marring mark on the face of the rim, you've moved that potential to the lug holes instead!?
These are your machines and your rims - as long as you take care you you shouldn't be making any marks with the front pressure cup. I suppose in a high volume shop with wing nut bearings that are sticking and not spinning as freely,... I can see the pressure cup binding to the wing nut and causing marks on the rim face when you go to snug it up. Seems like a costly investment to avoid a "potential" future scuff mark that can be rubbed off.
Thanks for the info, @djbmw! I wasn't aware of the type you show above, with studs attached to the balancer flange. And yes, I was referring to the separate plate in your second photo.
I am not sure what the SuperChina pressure cups are like, but when I eventually get my balancer, I'll report what I find out. If they do not mark the face of the wheels at all, that would be fantastic.
I am not sure what the SuperChina pressure cups are like, but when I eventually get my balancer, I'll report what I find out. If they do not mark the face of the wheels at all, that would be fantastic.
signcrafter
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 12,317
When I was reading this yesterday I thought you guys were talking about two different types of plates. I don't have either type and don't have knowledge about them but when reading posts I was picturing what gsxr was saying about the stud plate not used for centering but for pushing the rim onto the cone, using the studs in lug holes vs the traditional face plate.
If I remember correctly I have used the centering cone on the outside of the rim when the front of the rim isn't flat and doesn't allow the screw on plate to sit flat. Believe the instructions that came with my chinese balancer showed this configuration. That plate would really come in handy for things like this but for the few times a year I use my balancer I will probably just use the cone on the outside when needed. I did have to order a larger cone for doing truck tires on 3/4 and 1 tons. Think my balancer came with 3 or 4 cones and they weren't big enough so I ordered a bigger one online. Not sure if you do trucks or not but might want to look into the sizes that balancer comes with. It sucked the first time I went to use it and couldn't because I didn't have the cone.
I'd like to get a laser for mine, they make one for 50-60 dollars last time I checked into it. It's not a must but after the machine runs and you rotate the tire to where it says to put the weights, you have to bend over the tire and clean the spot good for sticky weights. Then mark it so you can rotate it and put weights on where they go easier. You're kind of looking down around the mounting shaft while doing this so you can't just look straight on to see where the weights go. A laser isn't a must but I think it would be worth it just to make things a little easier. I've often thought about just mounting a cheaper line laser on the side of the machine for how little I use mine.
If I remember correctly I have used the centering cone on the outside of the rim when the front of the rim isn't flat and doesn't allow the screw on plate to sit flat. Believe the instructions that came with my chinese balancer showed this configuration. That plate would really come in handy for things like this but for the few times a year I use my balancer I will probably just use the cone on the outside when needed. I did have to order a larger cone for doing truck tires on 3/4 and 1 tons. Think my balancer came with 3 or 4 cones and they weren't big enough so I ordered a bigger one online. Not sure if you do trucks or not but might want to look into the sizes that balancer comes with. It sucked the first time I went to use it and couldn't because I didn't have the cone.
I'd like to get a laser for mine, they make one for 50-60 dollars last time I checked into it. It's not a must but after the machine runs and you rotate the tire to where it says to put the weights, you have to bend over the tire and clean the spot good for sticky weights. Then mark it so you can rotate it and put weights on where they go easier. You're kind of looking down around the mounting shaft while doing this so you can't just look straight on to see where the weights go. A laser isn't a must but I think it would be worth it just to make things a little easier. I've often thought about just mounting a cheaper line laser on the side of the machine for how little I use mine.
OX1
Well-known member
Minor update on the tire machine & balancer combo. I am heavily leaning towards Katool as noted above.
However, I changed my mind on which combination to get. Now I'm eyeing the same KT-T830 tire machine, but with the KT-B750 balancer. The fancier balancer is quite a bit more, but has some features I think would be very useful.
First, it has the auto-width select, where you slide a thingy out of the balancer and touch it to the side of the wheel, and the balancer reads this automatically. The cheaper balancer requires you to enter the numbers manually using up/down arrows.Second, the fancy balancer has a laser guide to show where to apply the weights, in theory making the weight application slightly more foolproof. I like this a lot.
This pair is $2600 / OBO, erasing the savings vs Vevor, but is a significant upgrade for basically the same price. I'm going to use the "Make Offer" option for grins, worst that can happen is they'll decline.
Oddly, while I was finally able to find dimensions for the tire machine, I cannot find exact dimensions for the balancer. Same as @ctandc72 I don't have room in my shop, and it's going to be a Jenga/Tetris adventure to stuff them in somewhere. Really wish Katool would have the same drawing for the balancer, as provided for the tire machine (see below).
KATOOL KT-T830 Tire Changer & KT-B750 Wheel Balancer Combo
KATOOL KT-T830 tire changer and KT-B750 wheel balancer combo. Features assist arms, bead blast system, and ±1g precision balancing for automotive shops and garages.
If your doing any kind of "nice" rims, I wouldn't do rim clamp. You either have "knubs' that dig into inside of rim or you have to use plastic covers that hold lower edge of rim, which sometimes slip with harder to install tires (and sometimes if it slips far enough, you trash a TPMS).
Also, they can be a PIA beading up, since you have to remove to seat lower bead and sometimes you really have to jerk a tire around to get both beads seated (like some larger truck tires that have sat for a while, and beads "****" towards each other, don't want to get anywhere near seated). I guess if only doing std pass car tires, won't matter much or could get bead blast canister down the road.
One other option if/when is center post adapter kit. Spendy, but allow use with nice wheels, never slips, and not in the way seating lower bead.
Attachments
djbmw
Well-known member
Thats a cool adapter... but then I question why we are still using a machine with a manual duck head. At what point are the rims so priceless and true "show pieces" that we dive into a 100% touchless machine?
For me, i invested time into learning how to use standard machines over and over again - thousands of times - so that the likelihood of scratching a rim is extremely low (learn the skills vs spend the money on "tech"). Also.. . Its my view that rims are to be installed on cars that are driven - and can see rocks/pebbles hitting them while on public roadways. If, on the off chance, you scuff it with one of the abs clamp or bar protectors... just rub the scuff mark off.
Regardiing the rim slipping while using rim clamp protectors.... that only ever happens on underpowered machines OR if you're mounting a 30 profile run flat without the help of robo arms and bead depressors.
Last edited:
Holding the rim on from the center like that puts it in the same situation he doesn't like how balancers hold the rim on.
The first tire machine I used looked like the typical rim clamp type with the bead breaker on the side and the swing out arm but instead of the rim clam it had a shaft like the old style with a cone that screwed down it to hold the rim down. I never minded that setup and thought the rim clamp was strange the first time I saw one.
There's probably more risk of damage from the actual process of getting the tire on and off then from the rim clamps if the machine is working properly. But it's one reason I did like the one that held it down from the center better. It seems like it's usually nice aluminum rims that put up a fight with some of the low profile tire sizes and if it's clamped from the outside you can imagine the rim turning in them and getting scraped up.
The first tire machine I used looked like the typical rim clamp type with the bead breaker on the side and the swing out arm but instead of the rim clam it had a shaft like the old style with a cone that screwed down it to hold the rim down. I never minded that setup and thought the rim clamp was strange the first time I saw one.
There's probably more risk of damage from the actual process of getting the tire on and off then from the rim clamps if the machine is working properly. But it's one reason I did like the one that held it down from the center better. It seems like it's usually nice aluminum rims that put up a fight with some of the low profile tire sizes and if it's clamped from the outside you can imagine the rim turning in them and getting scraped up.
OX1
Well-known member
The plates do work with hubcentric wheels, where the wheel is centered by the rear hub bore. The pin plate simulates pressure from the lug bolts/nuts just as they would on the vehicle. A number of vehicle manufacturers specify using these for dealer/factory service, there are some threads on wheel forums which get into the details. However, I'm not sure there is enough advantage to justify the insane cost.
The laser may be a gimmick, but it's an awfully helpful one!
I recently got the hunter adjustable "pin" plate $$$, as I acquired a newer GT500 for track days that has CF wheels.
Have had no issues using it with back cones for centering, with pin plate only providing force to hold on wheel.
I also use it on my tire machine.
It also helps with some newer finicky wheels (that don't have much depth for a back cone) that don't want to center well.
My RF machine will also do centering check by measuring runout on bare wheel. Then you rotate wheel on machine and
do runout again. It lets you know if the centering changed at all. It distributes force over wheel face more evenly when
mounting on cone.
One thing that has worked really well over the years before the pin plate, was the thicker rounded door (home) edge molding.
It's self sticking and run a line of it on plastic cone face. Sometimes it may only last one set of wheels, but cheap and easy to redo.
Has not let me down on the marring issue for many years. I would give it a shot if you don't want to spend coin on pin plate.
As mentioned, I mainly got pin plate as CF wheels are "still" $2500 each, used....
Attachments
OX1
Well-known member
Holding wheel on a tire machine uses a cone with plastic insert. It only touches the very center of hole where center cap typically goes.
I have only had one issue using that method. It was older 80's wheels that had been professionally powder coated. Developed some very minor cracks in powder coat, that were covered by center cap anyway. But the other 100 or so modern wheels I've done since getting center post kit, have had zero issues.
Attachments
Last edited:
OX1
Well-known member
Glad to hear the rim clamp is working good for you. My Atlas is pushing 25 years old now, so maybe the newer machines have larger rams for rim clamp, holding better than my older machine.
Another issue for me early on, was the plastic inserts would break when releasing the clamps and the tire was "almost beaded. I gave up on the plastic inserts and for years use the knubs that dig into the wheel. Wasn't crazy about having the dents in wheel, but alleviated the rim edge clamp issues I've had (mostly slipping when tire bead lube got on plastic inserts). Again, this was mostly low profile perf tires.
And since the world runs mostly SUV's/trucks now, most probably don't have many of the issues I have with wide rim, ultra low profile perf tires. Since my friends and I have started doing track days, I am doing a ton of tires in 305-325 size, 30 series, and 11-13 wide wheels.
I do agree on going to a better machine at some point. The kit is nice if you already own the rim clamp setup
and want the holding power of having a pin through one of the lug holes. Just another option if/when.
That said, I was looking for a newer machine used without a "duck" head and without "side" rams.
Looked for well over 2 years, but machines are all beat up from shops and they still want 10 grand or more.
Finally blew some of my retirement money on a new Corghi. Still mostly a "manual" machine,
but super easy doing these track day type tires. I realize my equipment is WAY out of the original
spirit of this thread.
Attachments
Last edited:
OX1
Well-known member
One final thing I will offer up is low profile cones. Again, some newer wheels have very little depth.
This "low" profile cone set came with my used RF machine. Has been helpful on many newer wheels.
Not sure on cost, but most of this equipment is ridiculous money, on average.
EDIT. I lied, one more. They do make a "reasonably" priced center post mount machine now.
If you are looking at both machines for a grand, then this would not apply. But if you are
looking for new, but lower end pricing, then it is another option.
autool.us
This "low" profile cone set came with my used RF machine. Has been helpful on many newer wheels.
Not sure on cost, but most of this equipment is ridiculous money, on average.
EDIT. I lied, one more. They do make a "reasonably" priced center post mount machine now.
If you are looking at both machines for a grand, then this would not apply. But if you are
looking for new, but lower end pricing, then it is another option.
KATOOL KT-T880 Center Post Tire Changer (13"–26" Rims)
Katool KT-T880 Center Post Tire Changer delivers fully automatic, pneumatic operation for fast, precise tire mounting and demounting. Designed for professional shops, it handles 13"–26" wheels including low-profile and run-flat tires with ease. Built with heavy-duty steel construction for...
autool.us
Attachments
OX1
Well-known member
Oh , and since I'm post whoring. One option on lack of space for tire machine's is build a wheel kit.
I used 1/4 wall angle iron on my old machine (and 2" square 1/4 wall on my new Corghi).
Need to build platform for using bead breaker after lifting machine. But this allows you
to push machine up a against a wall or corner, when not in use. Wheels are rated 400 lbs each,
from McMaster. Lowest profile I could find.
I used 1/4 wall angle iron on my old machine (and 2" square 1/4 wall on my new Corghi).
Need to build platform for using bead breaker after lifting machine. But this allows you
to push machine up a against a wall or corner, when not in use. Wheels are rated 400 lbs each,
from McMaster. Lowest profile I could find.
Attachments
djbmw
Well-known member
I LOVE the weather seal strip idea! Brilliant!
I dont touch CF rims but if anyone comes in with chromed out rims then I will steal your idea!
RE: plastic jaw covers and slippage - i agree that you probably saw more problems than most of us because of the types of tires you're mounting. Ultra low profile (<35 aspect) will put up a fight (especially if its also a run flat!). I probably mount a 30 aspect tire less than 2% of the time. Most are 40 to 60 aspect. However, the last 35 aspect (non runflat) had no slippage but was a pain in the **** to pop the bead. Ended up needing ~65 psi to seat.
zimman
Well-known member
Here are the clues;
The Old Wizard
44,000 post
I'm not sure about everyone else but I'm paying attention. LOL
Zim
Oh and it's called a "Laydown Machine"
Glad to hear the rim clamp is working good for you. My Atlas is pushing 25 years old now, so maybe the newer machines have larger rams for rim clamp, holding better than my older machine.
Another issue for me early on, was the plastic inserts would break when releasing the clamps and the tire was "almost beaded. I gave up on the plastic inserts and for years use the knubs that dig into the wheel. Wasn't crazy about having the dents in wheel, but alleviated the rim edge clamp issues I've had (mostly slipping when tire bead lube got on plastic inserts). Again, this was mostly low profile perf tires.
And since the world runs mostly SUV's/trucks now, most probably don't have many of the issues I have with wide rim, ultra low profile perf tires. Since my friends and I have started doing track days, I am doing a ton of tires in 305-325 size, 30 series, and 11-13 wide wheels.
I do agree on going to a better machine at some point. The kit is nice if you already own the rim clamp setup
and want the holding power of having a pin through one of the lug holes. Just another option if/when.
That said, I was looking for a newer machine used without a "duck" head and without "side" rams.
Looked for well over 2 years, but machines are all beat up from shops and they still want 10 grand or more.
Finally blew some of my retirement money on a new Corghi. Still mostly a "manual" machine,
but super easy doing these track day type tires. I realize my equipment is WAY out of the original
spirit of this thread.
How long have you used the pin plate on the tire machine like that? They used to say the pins could start wearing the plate and get loose over time just by the balancing spinning and it would be under more pressure used on a tire machine.
Mine is a Coats that's probably a good 20 years old now.
I've been wanting to put mine on wheels, didn't think about the bead breaker. I was thinking of putting it on a pallet with wheels on that but how you've done it is more lower profile which might be better using it without the added height.
OX1
Well-known member
I originally had mine on two small dolly's (not bolted down at all). It almost killed me one day, getting aggressive trying to move it.
Only thing saved me was the "project" I had on the two post. When I made the steel mounts, I made the one on the "fat" end, especially long.
Oh, and just got that pin plate about 6 months ago. Only used it maybe 5 times so far.
The hunter stuff has been ultra durable for me overall. My first balancer a DSP 7700
I went 3rds with my brother and father back in the day. Still going, got it June 2000.
(for $2800, lot of money back then).
Attachments
Last edited:
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
NuttsGT
50,800
rustbucket5
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2015
- Messages
- 252
this is just my 2 cents, i work on tirechangers, balancers and lifts for work. the biggest things are parts availability and not getting a balancer with a 36mm shaft, you want a 40mm shaft. we get inquiries to fix or get parts for these machines all the time and we have had very little luck getting any parts
Center post machines basically relocate the risk of damage from the rear lips, to the center of the wheel face. For some wheel designs this may be better, but for others if it chips the powder coating at the center face where there is no cap to cover it... no bueno. I generally won't mind light markings on the rear lips as those aren't visible with the wheel on the car. I'm more concerned about the face.
The low-profile, shallow-taper back cones/collets that @OX1 shows above are critical for proper balancing. I'm hoping I will be able to locate one to fit the 36mm shaft on the Katool balancer, for my 66.67mm diameter center-bore wheels. I expect the Katool cones will not be shallow-taper.
Brief update on the eBay purchase, I haven't been impressed with the seller's post-sale communication. But, they said the pair of machines should ship out of PA very soon (implied this week, but did not provide a date) and will give me a tracking number when it's on the way. Hoping for delivery by the end of June, ideally sooner.
The low-profile, shallow-taper back cones/collets that @OX1 shows above are critical for proper balancing. I'm hoping I will be able to locate one to fit the 36mm shaft on the Katool balancer, for my 66.67mm diameter center-bore wheels. I expect the Katool cones will not be shallow-taper.
Brief update on the eBay purchase, I haven't been impressed with the seller's post-sale communication. But, they said the pair of machines should ship out of PA very soon (implied this week, but did not provide a date) and will give me a tracking number when it's on the way. Hoping for delivery by the end of June, ideally sooner.
djbmw
Well-known member
This is how it is when buying import products - they are 1/5the the price of North American made machines because the after-sale service and support is generally bottom barrel (if any). Once you have your kit... you're mainly on your own. But... all parts are readily available from amazon and aliexpress.Center post machines basically relocate the risk of damage from the rear lips, to the center of the wheel face. For some wheel designs this may be better, but for others if it chips the powder coating at the center face where there is no cap to cover it... no bueno. I generally won't mind light markings on the rear lips as those aren't visible with the wheel on the car. I'm more concerned about the face.
The low-profile, shallow-taper back cones/collets that @OX1 shows above are critical for proper balancing. I'm hoping I will be able to locate one to fit the 36mm shaft on the Katool balancer, for my 66.67mm diameter center-bore wheels. I expect the Katool cones will not be shallow-taper.
Brief update on the eBay purchase, I haven't been impressed with the seller's post-sale communication. But, they said the pair of machines should ship out of PA very soon (implied this week, but did not provide a date) and will give me a tracking number when it's on the way. Hoping for delivery by the end of June, ideally sooner.
Ive replaced several valves on my Coats machine with chinese stuff and it works well (but does look slightly "weaker")
OX1
Well-known member
Two more things I will toss out there that I've stumbled on (sorry, they are both 40mm shaft).Center post machines basically relocate the risk of damage from the rear lips, to the center of the wheel face. For some wheel designs this may be better, but for others if it chips the powder coating at the center face where there is no cap to cover it... no bueno. I generally won't mind light markings on the rear lips as those aren't visible with the wheel on the car. I'm more concerned about the face.
The low-profile, shallow-taper back cones/collets that @OX1 shows above are critical for proper balancing. I'm hoping I will be able to locate one to fit the 36mm shaft on the Katool balancer, for my 66.67mm diameter center-bore wheels. I expect the Katool cones will not be shallow-taper.
Brief update on the eBay purchase, I haven't been impressed with the seller's post-sale communication. But, they said the pair of machines should ship out of PA very soon (implied this week, but did not provide a date) and will give me a tracking number when it's on the way. Hoping for delivery by the end of June, ideally sooner.
If you want your wheel mounted almost exactly like it does on a hubcentric car,
these are self adjusting, hubcentric "cones" (but not angled like a normal cone). I got two that have the ranges for
all my "performance" wheels. Combined with pin plate, it's just like you would mount it on the car.
And to avoid the multiple piece setup you need to back cone a newer 3/4-1 ton, purely hubcentric wheel,
especially (at least Fords). I found a piece that is machined for my exact wheel center hole diameter . Otherwise, you have to use
a large diameter spacer, then a smaller spacer to get cone farther out board, and then the large dia cone you wanted
to begin with. Pics show old way and new "direct fit" flange. They make a bunch of different diameters, for most popular
3/4 -1 tons.
