The vintage Blackhawk Thread

CRTDI · Jan 5, 2012

Nugget Toolbox For 77K/L Set.

Previous thread:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131846&highlight=mystery

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stormking · Jan 6, 2012

Found this Caterpillar Serviceman's tool kit made by Blackhawk at the estate sale of a 93-year old retired mechanic. Not in the best of shape, but never thought I'd find one of these. Missing the medallion - by chance does anyone have one of these boxes and could post a good photo of the medallion?

By stormking3 at 2012-01-05

JAKE-THE-TOOL-MAN · Jan 6, 2012

You guys are making me want to buy some Black Hawk, these tools are too cool :bowdown:

CRTDI · Jan 6, 2012

stormking said:
Found this Caterpillar Serviceman's tool kit made by Blackhawk at the estate sale of a 93-year old retired mechanic. Not in the best of shape, but never thought I'd find one of these. Missing the medallion - by chance does anyone have one of these boxes and could post a good photo of the medallion?

By stormking3 at 2012-01-05

I'm not sure if this box is the same as yours, but it appears to be very similar:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123333&highlight=blackhawk

Please show off some of the other Blackhawk goodies that you have in the box. :drool:

stormking · Jan 6, 2012

CRTDI, Yes it is similar but the emblem on this tool box is metal and says (Caterpillar Serviceman's Toolkit by Blackhawk). There is an old thread here about one but the pictures are gone. Will try and post a picture of the tools.

CRTDI · Jan 6, 2012

So the missing medallion/emblem on your box is supposed to be a "Caterpillar" medallion/emblem? Looks like Blackhawk produced some specialty sets then. Can you post a link to that old thread?

CRTDI · Jan 12, 2012

SA-18 Porto-Power.

Previous thread:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=133381

Rivethead · Jan 13, 2012

These are some of my grandfather's I found 2 years ago. I had to hunt for them all but I think I got them. I sprayed them all down with amsoil's heavy duty mp protector once 2 years ago and they haven't rusted any more since. I put them in an old tool box of mine that I got from walmart years ago. Its the typical portable tool box that comes with a tray, but it's completely made out of metal, tray too if that tells you how old that is lol. The box the sockets came in sat on the shop floor for 20+ years with it open the whole time and always having inch diameter bolts, washers, and nuts in both halfs as far back as I can remember. I haven't had a chance to clean it up yet, but when I do, im going to coat it in that same spray when im done to store it. That spray is AWESOME for storing things you don't want to rust.

johnnybentwrench · Jan 13, 2012

@Rivethead Nice tool set :thumbup:

@CRTDI You are building a nice stash of Blackhawk

CRTDI · Jan 14, 2012

Rivethead said:
These are some of my grandfather's I found 2 years ago. I had to hunt for them all but I think I got them. I sprayed them all down with amsoil's heavy duty mp protector once 2 years ago and they haven't rusted any more since. I put them in an old tool box of mine that I got from walmart years ago. Its the typical portable tool box that comes with a tray, but it's completely made out of metal, tray too if that tells you how old that is lol. The box the sockets came in sat on the shop floor for 20+ years with it open the whole time and always having inch diameter bolts, washers, and nuts in both halfs as far back as I can remember. I haven't had a chance to clean it up yet, but when I do, im going to coat it in that same spray when im done to store it. That spray is AWESOME for storing things you don't want to rust.

These Nugget sets are always nice to see. But it's even better that you know the background history and it's part of the family... :beer:

When you get around to reuniting the tools back with the box, I'm sure you're going to end up with some duplicates or some missing pieces. Shoot me PM when you're ready. I've got some pieces that I might be willing to sell or preferably trade for others.

[@CRTDI You are building a nice stash of Blackhawk[/QUOTE]

Yep, I think they're taking over....... :Twitch:

CRTDI · Jan 28, 2012

johnnybentwrench said:
Keep em coming. I would love to run into a porta power cabinet

Check out post #24 here:

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=125488&page=2&highlight=BLACKHAWK

johnnybentwrench · Jan 30, 2012

I may have to call Dad in N.J for a favor

CRTDI · Feb 16, 2012

stormking said:
Found this Caterpillar Serviceman's tool kit made by Blackhawk at the estate sale of a 93-year old retired mechanic. Not in the best of shape, but never thought I'd find one of these. Missing the medallion - by chance does anyone have one of these boxes and could post a good photo of the medallion?

Here is a pic of a CAT Serviceman's medallion. Perhaps this is this the one you are looking for? :dunno:

stormking · Feb 17, 2012

CRTDI, That's the one, is this one that you have found? Anyway thank you for the picture.

CRTDI · Feb 17, 2012

stormking said:
CRTDI, That's the one, is this one that you have found? Anyway thank you for the picture.

You're Welcome...I'm glad I was able to help out. I think it's a pretty cool looking medallion. Unfortunately, it isn't attached to anything that belongs to me. I was just lucky enough to come across this pic while browsing around for some other Blackhawk goodies.

:beer:

CRTDI · Feb 17, 2012

More Blackhawk goodness.....I'm really digging the little S-7 jack... :drool:

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/45704-blackhawk-floor-jacks?in=1129

Private Lugnutz · May 20, 2012

Hi Guys,

I was hoping I would find some Blackhawk junkies/aficianados here...

May I join you?

By pure chance, I picked up a fairly complete Blackhawk No. 22-CD/32-CD 1/2 drive socket set in an original "C" type steel box (ca. 1928-30) today at a flea market. I am not a Blackhawk collector, but it's love at first sight, especially now that everything has been de-rusted. The sockets are serious contenders to early Walden and Duro-Indestro, the heft and ruggedness of the pressed steel (versus forged) ratchet is amazing, and I am digging these art deco rotating hand grips - which match the handle on the carry box, I see!

I wasn't sure what I was going to do with this, but now I am thinking of making this my next restoration project, and I have a few questions:

(1) Is there a good source for high quality Blackhawk reproduction decals out there somewhere? If so, please post some links. (The decal is completely missing from the inside lid.)

(2) According to my research, I have determined that the sockets and peripherals (brace, speeder, valve grinder, uni joint, etc) had a black enamel finish. What about the ratchet (911X) and the tee handles? I have seen one photo of a 911X with black paint finish, but the sites I was reading (AA, others) were ambiguous on this. Was everything in the set black paint finish?

Thanks much.

vr,
Lug

CRTDI · May 21, 2012

You've found some Blackhawk junkies all right...I just can't seem to get my fix these days... :willy_nil

I get pretty goofy when I see nice intact decals on old original items. Unfortunately, the only reproduction decals that I have seen available, were on E-bay awhile back for some Plomb sets.

As a novice collector, I have not come across many '20's to early '30's pieces. I think I remember that the sockets in some of the early sets required a release key to unlock the socket from the detent plunger when in the locked position.

I really can't speak knowledgeably about these early tools. However, the 911 ratchets certainly do seem like they should have the same finish, as the other items in the set, but I can't say for certain as the ratchets I have seen, the original finish appeared very worn and rusted.

Does your box/case have a bronze or yellow colored interior finish?

Please post some pics when you get a chance.

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

CRTDI said:
As a novice collector, I have not come across many '20's to early '30's pieces. I think I remember that the sockets in some of the early sets required a release key to unlock the socket from the detent plunger when in the locked position.

I have what Blackhawk called a Quick-Disconnect ("Q.D.") set. From what I have been able to find out on-line, this succeeded the very early era of extensions and connecting rods that had sockets either tabbed on or welded on, and preceded the "Lock-On" era (which Snap-On basically later appropriated and turned into an empire).

CRTDI said:
The 911 ratchets certainly do seem like they should have the same finish, as the other items in the set

Thanks. I think I answered my own question with further research. Every piece in the set does appear to have the same finish in a similar set in a catalog illo.

CRTDI said:
Does your box/case have a bronze or yellow colored interior finish?
Please post some pics when you get a chance.

It does not. But I have seen photos of partial collected sets in which the underside of the lid has a bronze or golden hue to it, and the bottom is a dark metallic flake. My entire box appears to be silver.

I will try to post photos today, although it's raining and overcast - bad light.

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

Okay, here are some pics...

This thing was so rusty when I got it, I could not identify half the markings and the 1 inch socket was stuck so hard to the end of the speeder that a decent blow would not dislodge it.

Blackhawk metal case (20"L x 9"W x 3"H), “C” type, exterior, top

Interior

Three-element hinge construction

Simple clasps

Case handle matches the look and function of the patented “rotating grip handles” on the brace and speeder tools inside the set, which is a very nice and admirable design and marketing touch

Bottom (one hole, some other thin areas where the corrosion has done its worst)

Open case with Blackhawk Q.D. No. 22/32-CD Wrench Set (1/2 drive) tools inside… On the lid is the 3310 Tee Handle and the 610 Speeder… In the single long socket compartment, to the left are five (5) 4-point Oxx sockets and to the right (with gaps for missing sockets) are nine (9) 12-point Dxx sockets… In the bottom are the 136 Spark Plug Socket, the 911X Ratchet, the 500 Short Speeder, the T-1 Drag Link Bit, T-2 Universal Joint, and T-11 Valve Grinder Adapter.

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

Blackhawk Q.D. No. 22/32-CD Wrench Set tools, Top to Bottom – 610 19” Speeder, 911X Ratchet, 3310 Tee Handle, 500 15” Brace (or Short Speeder)… and Left to Right – T-2 Universal Joint, 136 Deep Socket (Spark Plug Wrench)(1 1/8”), T-11 Valve Grinder Adapter w/cross piece and cotter pin in place, T-1 Drag Link Bit (15/16”)

View of all markings

Close-Ups of individual tool markings

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

Closer Views

911X Ratchet and T-13 Plug

T-11 Valve Grinder Adapter

136 Spark Plug Wrench

T-2 Universal Joint and T-1 (15/16") Drag Link Bit

End of 3310 Short Speeder

610 Speeder Handle

Dxx Double-Hex (12-point) Sockets, left to right: intentionally unmarked D12 (3/8), D14 (7/16), D20 (5/8), D21 (21/32), D24 (3/4), D25 (25/32), D26 (13/16), D28 (7/8), and D32 (1”)…

View of socket construction

View of Blackhawk Q.D. Dxx marking convention

Oxx Square (4-point) Sockets, left to right: intentionally unmarked O12 (3/8), O14 (7/16), O16 (1/2), O18 (9/16), and O20 (5/8)

View of Blackhawk Q.D. Oxx marking convention

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

To complete the set (which is more complete than the example on Alloy Artifacts), I would need:
- T-4 Sliding Tee
- T-10 Extension
- T-60 Extension
- and either a T-5 Dbl End L-Handle or a 110X Offset Handle, depending if I was leaning 22- or 32-CD. (The two sets - both of which came in this type box - had some unique as well as some interchangeable parts.)

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

Here's the same set on AA, with the extensions I need and a very nice original decal...

I plan to use that as a model of sorts for the box paint finish.

And here is a similar (set number unidentified) set that chopper1 posted last year...

CRTDI · May 21, 2012

WOW!...thats a lot of pics. This is an interesting looking set. Do you know if the numbering of the set should correspond with the number of pieces within the box? Take a look and search around in worthpoint.com, you might get some other ideas on finishes.

chopper1 · May 21, 2012

Lugnutz -
I went through and looked at the part numbers on the pieces in my set.
Speeders 9506 and 9611
Ratchet 9811
Offset breaker 9201
Sliding T 9204
10" ext with rotating grip 9210
6" ext with rotating grip 6206
8" ext T8
13, 12pt sockets 8416 (1/2") to 8432 (1") included are the 19,21,25 & 31/32 sockets
4, 4pt sockets 8012 (3/8); 8016 (1/2); 8018 (9/16) & 8020 (5/8)
None of the numbers seem to match what AA is describing on their site for the set.

Private Lugnutz · May 21, 2012

Whoops, am I guilty of photo overload? Sorry 'bout that...

The T-numbering is not unique to the 22-C/CD or 32-C/CD sets, CRTDI. They sold some of these items by the same model number separately, and several Blackhawk T-numbered tools are not included, so it's not consistent. Plus, some tools were common to both, some were exclusive. (Alloy Artifacts has a very good section on these sets.) As for finish, I kind of like the two-tone look of the bronze-ish lid and the metallic flake bottom, but Worthpoint searching for more examples is a great idea. Thanks.

Hi chopper. Thanks for checking. Based on those model numbers, I think your set came a little later. The finish looks different, too. Same box though. Look at the handles on the speeder and brace. Those are more modern and knurled grip. But the handle on the box is the older rotating grip.

Private Lugnutz · May 22, 2012

CRTDI said:
Do you know if the numbering of the set should correspond with the number of pieces within the box?

I hate to double post, but I just realized that I misread this the first time... I was thinking numbering convention on each piece, not set. Please ignore that part of my prior reply... Yes, your hunch is correct. The 22-CD had 22 pieces; 32-CD had 32. But AA thinks that retailers sold custom versions, hence his example, a 22-CD case that is outfitted inside like a modified 32-CD.

As long as I'm here a question for chopper --- is the color on the inside bottom of your case the same color as the inside of the lid? and would you call it copper or bronze?

Question for all --- what do you make of the inside bottom of the AA example above? Does he have some kind of goofy charcoal colored foam in there for the tools to sit on? Or is that metal flake colored paint? Based on examing chopper's case more closely, I'm starting to think the whole thing was that glossy copper/bronze color on the inside... What do y'all think?

chopper1 · May 22, 2012

The inside bottom seems to be the same bronzish color as the rest of the box.

Private Lugnutz · May 22, 2012

Thanks, chopper. I'm loving that color. Taking CRTDI's advice, I found several others like it, including this slightly different well-preserved set (which also shows the black painted socket finish) posted elsewhere on the TGJ...

It's like a Vienna orchestra hall of tools when you open the lid.

What is the color on the outside? None of the boxes I have found show the outside.

Anyone have any product suggestions? I'm not adverse to rattle can, and I was thinking of maybe trying to match it up with one of those little modern GM touch-up paints that NAPA and others sell. It sort of has a modern metallic color car hue to it, don't you think?

Private Lugnutz · May 22, 2012

I stripped the attache-style case today, carefully, a little at a time, with acetone, fine steel wool, and shop rags, and guess what I found underneath that drab silver… the remains of the original copper/bronze paint from ca. 1928.

The light in this pic really shows the color…

CRTDI · May 27, 2012

From this 1934 catalog, it appears that different models and plating of tools were available in similar style cases.
The "QD" set designation still appears to be available in 1934, but not with your style of case.

Here is a chrome plated 30CD set that appears to resemble the tools in Chopper's case.
Note that these are "Lock-On" drive tools.

Here is a cad plated 29CD set that more resembles the tools in your set.

I do believe that your set is earlier than these, but it is still quite interesting to see the different configurations that were available a bit later. I still don't really understand all of the different set designators.

chopper1 · May 27, 2012

The 30CD set is almost identical to mine. Only the offset breaker and 6" rotating extension #'s are different.
$36.55 in 1934 was a hell of a lot of money....more than a weeks pay in most cases.

Private Lugnutz · May 27, 2012

Thanks for posting the catalog pics. Very helpful in a number of ways.

Private Lugnutz · Jun 8, 2012

I am inside the 10 yard line on my project and have a question for the group...

None of the illustrations of these attache style tool boxes in catalogs (example posted above) that I have seen show the cases in a closed position. Do you guys think there was a decal on the outside of the top/lid? They all have a decal centered on the inside of the lid. I am wondering if they had the same decal on the top.

I have looked everywhere, in multiple sources, and can't seem to confirm one way or another.

In looking at photos of larger Blackhawk boxes, it varies. The Chief wrench set only had the decal under the lid. The Nugget set had the decal under the lid and 'A Blackhawk Product' on the lid in the corner. But the Master Chief Wrench Chest had a smaller version of the decal under the lid on the top of the lid. And, in looking industry-wide, small to medium boxes from other brands (Snap-On, C-Man, etc), including attache style, had something on the lid, too - if not a decal, then a badge.

I have acquired two (2) identical replica Blackhawk decals. I am definitely putting one on the inside lid. I bought the second one as a back-up; but now I am tempted to put it on the topside of the lid, too. But wavering. Box looks good without it. But I can see it looking good with it, too...

What do you guys think?

CRTDI · Jun 11, 2012

I have only seen pics of a couple of these older sets showing very worn black? outer finishes. I cannot be absolutely certain, but I believe there were no decals. If it were mine, I wouldn't apply an outer decal unless I could confirm that it had one originally.

Can you please show your replica decals and comment on the process of how you acquired or had them replicated.

Private Lugnutz · Jun 11, 2012

Thanks for your reply, CRTDI.

About the finish...

The only cases I have seen that were painted black on the outside (usually accompanied by that true yellow in the inside) were the type "A" cases (according to catalogs - for students and vehicle owners), with the single clasp and the bare bar style handle.

The type "C" cases seem to have been finished, on the inside and the outside, with the bronze/copper color we see on chopper's and mine above.

I have also seen exceptions to that. I posted a type "A" case above, for example, that also has the bronze/copper finish. (Maybe it's because it's a type "G" set?) I have never seen the reverse - the type "C" case in the black/yellow combination.

I wish we knew more, definitively. My case, carefully stripped, revealed traces of the original copper/bronze all over, so I am going with that.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post it.

About the decal...

I had planned to present the entire set, once the restoration was complete, to include photos, resources, and credits.

If you want to get a jump on decals now, my source was John Brantley at "Military Steel Helmets and Decals." Google that for his website. Email is [email protected].

John is a fixture in the WW2 collectors and reenactment community for high-quality reproduction decals (waterslide type) for original WW2 equipment (e.g., brass fire extinguisher, decontamination kit, first aid kit, etc) often missing original decals. He sells copies of known standard decals he created a long time ago in that domain, obviously, but he will create new decals to spec, from images and instructions. I sent him several photos of Blackhawk Q.D. set decals and we collaborated briefly on size. (As I said upthread, I would've preferred an equivalent from the speed shop/motorsports/tools collectors community, but nobody provided a recommendation - and John seems very enthusiastic and eager to diversify.) My cost was $25 for the first decal, $5 for copies.

wafrederick · Jun 16, 2012

My father has a Blackhawk 1/2 drive socket set from 1919 to 1925 in the original wooden case missing two sockets.Has the indian head logo on the sockets and attachments which was 1919 to 1925.It was in a box of stuff he bought in an auction.

Private Lugnutz · Jun 17, 2012

Thanks for the photo, Snapmom.

I'd love to see a photo of that Indian head era set, wafrederick.

Private Lugnutz · Jun 21, 2012

For those who conspired with me above about the old Blackhawk Q.D. set I found at a flea market, I have posted a separate thread on its resto here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154765

The vintage Blackhawk Thread

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