Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
I think it's be transfer from my cheap brass looking brush, but its kind of a cool color so I left it.
Long C Craftsman Ratchets - Survey help needed:
- Thread starter Outlawmws
- Start date
Private Lugnutz
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Haha. That's funny. Well, it does look good. And if you wanted to fib, you could say it's "a sheen of residue from the NOS factory preservative." 
Rileysan
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d42jeep
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Private Lugnutz
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Thanks for the new additions, guys! EDIT: We're still on pattern as I summarized upthread a bit.
Hmm. Why do I get the feeling that Brian was the kid in the 3rd grade who always came home with the gold star for following directions, and all you other guys were standing in the corner?
Hmm. Why do I get the feeling that Brian was the kid in the 3rd grade who always came home with the gold star for following directions, and all you other guys were standing in the corner?
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twertsy
Well-known member
I was usually bent over a desk with a whiffled paddle being swung mightily....
Anecdotally, I hail from a tiny town. First 2 times I got paddled were by 2 uncles, third time was by my great aunt, who was also my grandmother's math teacher!!
Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Me too. Small coal cracker town. Church on every corner, tavern on the other.
True story. I had four brothers. No sisters. We had a big blackboard at my house, in the kitchen, near the phone on the wall. It was for phone messages, notes to each other, reminders, etc. There was a nail in one corner and hanging off the nail was a huuuuge wooden paddle. My dad, a bit of an artist, painted a Rockwellian image of a young boy with his dungarees down around his ankles, his bare *** beat red as a Santa Claus suit, turning around with a tear in his eye and a look like, "I've had enough, Dad!" on his cute little face. At the top of the paddle it read, "BOARD OF EDUCATION." And, the paddle had a crack in it.
True story. I had four brothers. No sisters. We had a big blackboard at my house, in the kitchen, near the phone on the wall. It was for phone messages, notes to each other, reminders, etc. There was a nail in one corner and hanging off the nail was a huuuuge wooden paddle. My dad, a bit of an artist, painted a Rockwellian image of a young boy with his dungarees down around his ankles, his bare *** beat red as a Santa Claus suit, turning around with a tear in his eye and a look like, "I've had enough, Dad!" on his cute little face. At the top of the paddle it read, "BOARD OF EDUCATION." And, the paddle had a crack in it.
Rileysan
Well-known member
Hmm. Why do I get the feeling that Brian was the kid in the 3rd grade who always came home with the gold star for following directions, and all you other guys were standing in the corner?
LOL - Not I!
I've had more than my fair share of paddlings. As such, I try to learn by watching other's mistakes. This thread is so much more entertaining than a simple survey implies
Brian
Rileysan
Well-known member
My mom used to use her hand, until she broke a blood vessel in her hand spanking us. Then she got the paddle from one of those paddle ball toys. She still has it in the kitchen cabinet...
The two biggest motivators in life: fear and pain. Or is it the fear of pain? I needed it, and glad I received it!
Brian
don long
Well-known member
You guys have ratchets i've never seen before
There must be a whole new world out there that I've not yet discovered
But I'm lookin
Don
There must be a whole new world out there that I've not yet discovered
But I'm lookin
Don
Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
Hmm. Why do I get the feeling that Brian was the kid in the 3rd grade who always came home with the gold star for following directions, and all you other guys were standing in the corner?
Fine, I choked down my rebellious streak, and edited my post for format compliance. Also it was an S not an 8.
bill300d
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Private Lugnutz
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It's too soon (insufficient sample size) to draw any definitive conclusions, and yet, as I summarized in a few posts above, some interesting patterns are emerging, with no crazy outliers, and those patterns are better seen in table form, sorted by time. See chart in thumbnail.
I will update and re-post this as we go if/when there is a significant number of additional examples posted.
I will update and re-post this as we go if/when there is a significant number of additional examples posted.
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AdrianBoomer
Well-known member
Not sure if I am contributing but I went to my shop and looked at my stuff and snapped a couple pics.
My 1/2"er stamped 12.45
![GALLERY]](http://[GALLERY=media, 78626][/GALLERY])
3/8"
View media item 78625
My 1/2"er stamped 12.45
3/8"
View media item 78625
Lugz, I put a pointer to your new date code survey, in Post one for new visitors, and here are my 1/2 and 3/8's
Only one had a date code, of T 2 46, and interestingly, it was in the case with the heritage logo when I got it...
Also oddly, the NB 1/2 and the 2 Craftsman 3/8 had the drive on the side with the switch. The 1/2 Craftsman had the switch on the opposite side.
On the above Craftsman 1/2's Date code is T 2 46
The "non date code" has either a sideways "S" of a "69"; in the pic it looks like an S, but to the naked eye/magnifier looks far more like 69...
Only one had a date code, of T 2 46, and interestingly, it was in the case with the heritage logo when I got it...
Also oddly, the NB 1/2 and the 2 Craftsman 3/8 had the drive on the side with the switch. The 1/2 Craftsman had the switch on the opposite side.
On the above Craftsman 1/2's Date code is T 2 46
The "non date code" has either a sideways "S" of a "69"; in the pic it looks like an S, but to the naked eye/magnifier looks far more like 69...
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Private Lugnutz
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Private Lugnutz
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It looks like "12.45.S." Is that correct? Also, is that a "T." I see before the "12", obscured by the manufacturing mark? See that nub? It's on all reversible ratchets. It seems to be some kind of artifact from installing the switch, which is directly in line with it on the flip side of the ratchet, like the end of the pin being punched into place. I actually mistook it for an "O" on some of the early photos.
Secondly, how is it branded? You didn't identify the mfgr/model or share a photo of the top side.
Thanks, Outlaw. And thanks for adding the new survey pointer to post #1. Good idea.
REMINDER: Some of the photos are difficult to see, so please identify it by brand and model number (if it has one), whether it's BE or Circle-H if it doesn't have a model number, and transcribe the entire marking - including any letters that may appear before or after the date code, and transcribe the date exactly as it appears, including period marks or hyphens, etc.
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I'm not so sure. I initially thought the same, but look at the others photos. Most 3/8 are "backward" and some 1/2's are? Maybe they just didn't care?
Moreover the '42 catalog consistently shows the 3/8" setup "backwards" with the possible exception of the amber handle pics, and I'm not sure that is the same ratchet? it may be the Plvmb pear head?
Hmm. I wonder if there would be an application that would benefit from the "reversed" arrangement? My money is still on it being inadvertent, given the ease with which the ratchet could be reassembled in either orientation.
AdrianBoomer
Well-known member
It looks like "12.45.S." Is that correct? Also, is that a "T." I see before the "12", obscured by the manufacturing mark? See that nub? It's on all reversible ratchets. It seems to be some kind of artifact from installing the switch, which is directly in line with it on the flip side of the ratchet, like the end of the pin being punched into place. I actually mistook it for an "O" on some of the early photos.
Secondly, how is it branded? You didn't identify the mfgr/model or share a photo of the top side.
Here is the other side. Yes, it does look like a "T" where a pin goes though.
![GALLERY]](http://[GALLERY=media, 78637][/GALLERY])
![GALLERY]](http://[GALLERY=media, 78638][/GALLERY])
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks.
Thanks. I don't know what to make of that symbol.
A few of the reversible ratchets have an "S" after the date.
My inclination is to concentrate on the date code area markings for now, Outlaw. Also, unlike features that are indisputably original (e.g., forged-in markings), it's difficult to impossible to determine if the switch is in its factory position. As for the PAT. PEND. marking, remember that all of the Costello patent reversible ratchets have it. We have never seen a ratchet that had the actual patent or no PAT. PEND. marking. So it would get repetitive fast.
Ole Slewfoot
Well-known member
My view is that there is no 'backward assembly' on most ratchets that will go together either way. When working in a confined space with a lot of obstruction, esp. wire and hose bundles opposite the drive end, the selector gets fouled more than it does if nested between the socket and your hand on the 'wrong' side. You flip directions with your forefinger now, and its still easy.
Some Plomb have a notch on one side of the handle which the selector is meant to sit in, so those would be correctly switched by only flipping the starwheel. But with these NB ones you cant mess that up.
Some Plomb have a notch on one side of the handle which the selector is meant to sit in, so those would be correctly switched by only flipping the starwheel. But with these NB ones you cant mess that up.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I found a WWII era 14-pc Husky 1/2-inch drive socket set at the flea this morning, and it included a date-coded New Britain-made ratchet, joining Ole Slew and a slew of others in November 1944 production. The ratchet, the extension and the sockets were coated with dried BLO. I posted a bunch of photos in the New Britain thread, here, and here, but I am going to re-post the ratchet here for the survey.
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mgmlvks
Well-known member
Here is my addition to the survey from today
Craftsman Circle-H
Non-reversing 1/2" Drive, OAL 10"
MADE IN U.S.A. (on same side as "Craftsman (H)"
T-S FORGED 7-46
Craftsman Circle-H
Non-reversing 1/2" Drive, OAL 10"
MADE IN U.S.A. (on same side as "Craftsman (H)"
T-S FORGED 7-46
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks. Nice find. The date coded ratchet sets aren't super rare, but they aren't super common, either!
baldytooltime
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I will cover the Costello 1940 (filed end of 1937) patent with particular emphasis on Sears Craftsman contract. First New Britain had the contract for sockets and sub contracted VLCHEK to provide the ratchet. I believe the last modification is this Craftsman BE ratchet.
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baldytooltime
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baldytooltime
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So here are 4 modifications of original Costello patent. I suspect 1939 models as advertising ads can not be relied on during this time frame.
1. No Manufactuers mark (Still PAT. PEND.)
Flat head screws/wide sliding bolt/wide opening on bottom front plate / & back plate.
2. Craftsman BE
Flat head screws/wide sliding bolt (no hole in middle,/ wide opening on bottom front plate/ & back plate.
3. HUSKY H4725
PHILLIPS SCREWS/ SKINNY BOLT/ front & back plate narrowed and CLOSED OFF at bottom.
4. Craftsman BE
Phillips/ even skinnier bolt/ closed off / now HOLE IN HANDLE
You can see how the design was progressing. These 4 modifications were relatively close to the patent and prolly would have put the patent number on the tool but in 1940 the ratchet showed a more robust or significant change.
1. No Manufactuers mark (Still PAT. PEND.)
Flat head screws/wide sliding bolt/wide opening on bottom front plate / & back plate.
2. Craftsman BE
Flat head screws/wide sliding bolt (no hole in middle,/ wide opening on bottom front plate/ & back plate.
3. HUSKY H4725
PHILLIPS SCREWS/ SKINNY BOLT/ front & back plate narrowed and CLOSED OFF at bottom.
4. Craftsman BE
Phillips/ even skinnier bolt/ closed off / now HOLE IN HANDLE
You can see how the design was progressing. These 4 modifications were relatively close to the patent and prolly would have put the patent number on the tool but in 1940 the ratchet showed a more robust or significant change.
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baldytooltime
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1940 thru 1947 New Britain held the Sears contract for ratchets and sockets. The forges(yes there were several) drop forged this rugged ratchet which earned Craftsman its reputation. The sliding bolt was removed and the micro ball bearing switch was produced and the handle was modified for a thumb to move the selector. Over these years New Britain made this ratchet and put 5 different manufacturer’s names on it
1. Craftsman Circle H
2. Husky H4725
3. Craftsman BE
4. None Better S40
5. New Britain NS40
The Circle H and Husky were believed to be made in Kenosha, Wi at the newly built Husky drop forge factory. Husky had been acquired by New Britain in 1933. The other 3 were made in the Arthur L. Moore drop forges located in Springfield Massachusetts.
The thumb selector was modified on all 5 models to the non ball bearing model and at the end only the New Britain model was forged that completely modified the selector. Eventually a date code was used in later models. Here is the selector modifications.
1. Craftsman Circle H
2. Husky H4725
3. Craftsman BE
4. None Better S40
5. New Britain NS40
The Circle H and Husky were believed to be made in Kenosha, Wi at the newly built Husky drop forge factory. Husky had been acquired by New Britain in 1933. The other 3 were made in the Arthur L. Moore drop forges located in Springfield Massachusetts.
The thumb selector was modified on all 5 models to the non ball bearing model and at the end only the New Britain model was forged that completely modified the selector. Eventually a date code was used in later models. Here is the selector modifications.
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baldytooltime
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So now let look at this iconic ratchet that made Craftsman famous. I have 8 ratchets
1. Craftsman Circle H - missing MADE IN USA
2. Craftsman Circle H
3. Husky H4725
4. Craftsman BE
5. None Better S40
6. New Britain NS40
7. Husky H4725 with second gen. thumb selector.
8. New Britain NS40 third gen. Thumb selector (again only New Britain model has third gen selector)
1. Craftsman Circle H - missing MADE IN USA
2. Craftsman Circle H
3. Husky H4725
4. Craftsman BE
5. None Better S40
6. New Britain NS40
7. Husky H4725 with second gen. thumb selector.
8. New Britain NS40 third gen. Thumb selector (again only New Britain model has third gen selector)
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four.cycle
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baldytooltime
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Ok here is my “reasoning” on what happened. Sears wanted a “dedicated” Craftsman only tool company. No one would step up to the plate. They didn’t want the same tool with someone else’s name on it. So they started evaluating forges. Moore acquired the Page-Storms Drop Forge Company (founded in 1902 by Edward C. Page and Frank F. Storms, with operations in Chicopee, Massachusetts.) in 1919 and Page was dropped and Storms Drop Forge was brought down to Springfield. Moore now has 2 forges in “town”. To distinguish his forges the forge mark SDF (Storms Drop Forge) was forged onto the ones coming out of Springfield, Mass (Moores forges) vs Husky’s forge between Chicago and Milwaukee. All 8 (yes two circle H’s and two Husky models) I show have Storms Drop Forge forge mark/logo on them Just above the word FORGED (except 3rd gen New Britain forged mark is below MADE IN U.S.A. Sears chose Moore to take up the contract, he threw in a third “Sears” dedicated factory in Springfield, Mass and started producing Craftsman ratchets and sockets with the -v- forge mark. The rest is history. Aesop Fable: when you let someone make your tools for you, you the middle man will be cut out of the equation eventually. Note the SDF logo on alloy artifact is a Japanese tool maker Showa Drop Forge trademark 1942. Storms Drop Forge has. Serif type S font and were using that forge mark before that time.
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baldytooltime
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It was a Japanese Trademark.