Are my new hein werner jack stands Made in the USA?

theamcaddict · Jan 23, 2014

The sticker on the stands say made in USA, the yellow arm has USA cast into it, but the box states assembled in the US of US and global components.

PN HW93506

I sent an e-mail to shin fu america to see what they say.

HW

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theamcaddict · Jan 23, 2014

Shin fu just responded to my e-mail.

Tim,

The bars are made in America, the frame is made in China.

Thank you,

Cale Mahan

SFA Customer Service Rep.

SFA Companies

10939 N. Pomona

Kansas City, MO 64153

Hours: 8 Am-4:45 Pm CST

Phone: 816-891-6390

Fax: 816-448-1999

Toll Free: 1-888-332-6419

[email protected]

redwrench60 · Jan 23, 2014

Oh ****........

theamcaddict · Jan 23, 2014

Tim,

The jackstands you purchased are a made in USA item. As with all manufactured items some of the components may be sourced from overseas, but they are assembled and shipped from the US. In our Hein-Werner line we are committed to keeping as much of that product as possible sourced domestically, the major castings on the HW93506 for instance are cast in South Dakota and the stands are assembled and boxed here in KC. Most of the items that we produce overseas are sourced from our own factories in China or Taiwan.

Thanks,

Keith Tucker

jacked_72 · Jan 23, 2014

The first response from Shinn Fu seems to be honest. The second double speak. Not having read the first response first, I would have concluded that the frames were stamped in china, but welded together here. But, "assembled and boxed" seems to suggest (after reading the first post) that they put the sticker on them in the US and put them in a box.

SMKS · Jan 23, 2014

What does the sticker on the jack stand say?

They used to say "made in the USA" on the stands themselves. Do they still say that? If the bases are made overseas, then I have a hard time believing they would meet the "all or virtually all" requirement for labeling them "made in the USA."

I wonder if this is a recent change?

Here's a thread from 2012 where you can clearly see the sticker on the jack stand:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148786

EDIT- it's hard to see in the pics, but it appears the OP's box says they're "assembled in the US from..." I can't read the last part of it.

That is proper labeling for something that is put together in the US with US and imported parts.

Can we see some pics of the stands themselves? I suspect they've changed them recently from the previous ones that were "made in the USA."

SteveCh · Jan 23, 2014

I'd been considering buying some of these jack stands, will wait and see what we learn here. I already have a pair of Chinese-made ones, was gonna get rid of them and replace with H W, on my to-do list for this year. Maybe not.

SMKS · Jan 23, 2014

SteveCh said:
I'd been considering buying some of these jack stands, will wait and see what we learn here. I already have a pair of Chinese-made ones, was gonna get rid of them and replace with H W, on my to-do list for this year. Maybe not.

There's still US Jack.

theamcaddict · Jan 23, 2014

SMKS said:
What does the sticker on the jack stand say?

They used to say "made in the USA" on the stands themselves. Do they still say that? If the bases are made overseas, then I have a hard time believing they would meet the "all or virtually all" requirement for labeling them "made in the USA."

I wonder if this is a recent change?

Here's a thread from 2012 where you can clearly see the sticker on the jack stand:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148786

EDIT- it's hard to see in the pics, but it appears the OP's box says they're "assembled in the US from..." I can't read the last part of it.

That is proper labeling for something that is put together in the US with US and imported parts.

Can we see some pics of the stands themselves? I suspect they've changed them recently from the previous ones that were "made in the USA."

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SMKS · Jan 23, 2014

If what they told you is accurate, and the base is made overseas, then I would guess that labeling those "made in the USA" may be a violation of the FTC's labeling rules:
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

What is the standard for a product to be called Made in USA without qualification?

For a product to be called Made in USA, or claimed to be of domestic origin without qualifications or limits on the claim, the product must be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. The term "United States," as referred to in the Enforcement Policy Statement, includes the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories and possessions.

What does "all or virtually all" mean?

"All or virtually all" means that all significant parts and processing that go into the product must be of U.S. origin. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

But, it gets a little sticky, because the box is accurately labeled, since it notes they're only "assembled" in the US.

Perhaps they just made the change recently and they don't have new stickers yet for the jack stands themselves?

wmartin · Jan 23, 2014

lol.

By 'assembled', do they mean that they stuck the post in the base? That's really beautiful.

Rogue1987 · Jan 23, 2014

So now you can have the frame made in China, the bar made in the US, pay some poor fellow minimum wage to stick said bar into said frame and you get made in USA?

Thats kinda tough for me to take.

Askme42 · Jan 23, 2014

wmartin said:
lol.

By 'assembled', do they mean that they stuck the post in the base? That's really beautiful.

Yeah. That was my thought. With many items I'm like ok it's fine they are assembling them here it's better than nothing. With a jack stand however there isn't much to assemble.

metaleltr · Jan 23, 2014

So other than US jack and Alan Camby does anyone make jack stands here?

theamcaddict · Jan 23, 2014

metaleltr said:
So other than US jack and Alan Camby does anyone make jack stands here?

That was my next question. I can get the US JACK brand for the same price from http://www.jackxchange.com/products/D-41608.cfm
The US JACK stands products look pretty legitimate.

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wmartin · Jan 23, 2014

Askme42 said:
Yeah. That was my thought. With many items I'm like ok it's fine they are assembling them here it's better than nothing. With a jack stand however there isn't much to assemble.

Maybe by 'assemble', they mean 'stick two of them in a box'.

They could work 'USA' into the model number.

This is sweet.

metal4130 · Jan 23, 2014

www.grayusa.com

My dad has 4 of the 10 tons and I've got a set of the 7 tons. They are very nice units and are 100% made in Missouri.

http://centralcitymfg.com/Products/jacks.php
http://www.ccmilitarystore.com/browse.cfm/other-items/2,94.html

This company offers a 5 7 and 10 made to military specs. I have not seen them personally but they seem very very nice.

I also have a pair of the 10 ton US Jack stands and they are also very nice.

thesilverone · Jan 23, 2014

wow that's BS. Do they have Ray Charles applying the labels too?

theamcaddict · Jan 23, 2014

thesilverone said:
wow that's BS. Do they have Ray Charles applying the labels too?

Thats it.
"You got the right one babayy!"

Does hein werner make the snap on branded stands? Seems some one had brought the country of origin for the snap ons into question. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3686756#post3686756

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Skin · Jan 23, 2014

They do supply the Snap-On ones. SO customer service confirmed the imported bases quite some time ago.

wmartin · Jan 24, 2014

Well, I admit that I got had by Hein Werner on a pair of HW93506 stands. There sure is big 'made in USA' stuff all over their webpage for that item.

It cracks me up to get ripped off by a vendor, it's not such a bad thing to be reminded of your own fallibility. A pair of jackstands is a pretty cheap lesson, and they'll remind me to keep my eyes open when I deal with any company that I don't know personally.

If I'm wrong on the COO, somebody mention it and I'll remove Hein Werner from my shitlist.

theamcaddict · Jan 24, 2014

I have been thinking about this a lot and I have decided to file an FTC complaint.
I would have been ok if it was advertised as Assembled in USA yada yada but the label on the Chinese part of the product states Made in USA.

carterbeauford · Jan 24, 2014

metaleltr said:
So other than US jack and Alan Camby does anyone make jack stands here?

http://milwaukeehydraulic.com/products.html

$$$$ but made in WI

"global components" is so innocent sounding that most people never give it a second though. glad to see some truth shed on the meaning of the phrase.

jacked_72 · Jan 24, 2014

theamcaddict said:
I have been thinking about this a lot and I have decided to file an FTC complaint.
I would have been ok if it was advertised as Assembled in USA yada yada but the label on the Chinese part of the product states Made in USA.

If you wouldn't mind posting a link to where you can make the FTC complaint, I would appreciate it. I'll file one too. This is ****.

theamcaddict · Jan 24, 2014

jacked_72 said:
If you wouldn't mind posting a link to where you can make the FTC complaint, I would appreciate it. I'll file one too. This is ****.

This is the link that made me decide to file a complaint
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/it-truly-made-usa

This is where I sent the complaint to.
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1

SMKS · Jan 24, 2014

I've looked at that link before and it looked to me like it was for mostly other types of consumer complaints, like scams, not "made in the USA" violations.

Here's what it says at the bottom of this page about reporting "made in the USA" violations:
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

What if I suspect noncompliance with the FTC’s Made in USA standard or other country-of-origin mislabeling?

Information about possible illegal activity helps law enforcement officials target companies whose practices warrant scrutiny. If you suspect noncompliance, contact the Division of Enforcement, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580; (202) 326-2996 or send an e-mail to [email protected].

If you know about import or export fraud, call Customs’ toll-free Commercial Fraud Hotline, 1-800-ITS-FAKE. Examples of fraudulent practices involving imports include removing a required foreign origin label before the product is delivered to the ultimate purchaser (with or without the improper substitution of a Made in USA label) and failing to label a product with a required country of origin.

theamcaddict · Jan 24, 2014

SMKS said:
I've looked at that link before and it looked to me like it was for mostly other types of consumer complaints, like scams, not "made in the USA" violations.

Here's what it says at the bottom of this page about reporting "made in the USA" violations:
http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus03-complying-made-usa-standard

Thanks

I copied the statement I sent to the FTC folks and sent it to the above e-mail with photos attached.

wmartin · Jan 24, 2014

My bet is that they squeak in under some sort of percent-made-in-US limit. It'll be based on value, not the amount of the product that is made from Chinesium.

If the base really is China built, one more thing to be done is to post an Amazon review.

SMKS · Jan 24, 2014

wmartin said:
My bet is that they squeak in under some sort of percent-made-in-US limit. It'll be based on value, not the amount of the product that is made from Chinesium.

Well, it appears they are aware of the USA labeling requirements, because they correctly labeled the box, noting they're only "assembled" in the US. The strange thing is that they then go ahead and seemingly incorrectly label the item in the box. :headscrat

If they thought they were getting around a rule, why wouldn't they put "made in the USA" on the box?

fivespdcat · Jan 24, 2014

SMKS said:
Well, it appears they are aware of the USA labeling requirements, because they correctly labeled the box, noting they're only "assembled" in the US. The strange thing is that they then go ahead and seemingly incorrectly label the item in the box.

If they thought they were getting around a rule, why wouldn't they put "made in the USA" on the box?

This is why they could potentially have more risk. Since the knew what they were doing by changing one part and ignoring the rest, they could have big exposure. It shows they were aware of the issue and knew they had to change.

Skin · Jan 24, 2014

Should be easy to tell where they were made.

Good looking welds? Check
Sticker applied straight? Check

Made in China

Good looking welds? Check
Sticker applied crooked? Check

Made in China, sticker applied in USA

Bad looking welds? Check
Sticker applied crooked? Check

Proudly made in the USA.

Yea im trolling a bit but in all honesty when they make things like that here they're hiring guys for minimum wage to do it so the quality can be all over the map. USJack is no stranger to it either, my stands are great, others have posted pictures that look like a beginner tried to learn to weld on them.

wmartin · Jan 24, 2014

Skin said:
USJack is no stranger to it either, my stands are great, others have posted pictures that look like a beginner tried to learn to weld on them.

I wonder sometimes why a person welds on it at all.

Jack stands look so simple that you'd think that the only employee in the factory is a night watchman who has access to the on/off switch.

scw1991 · Jan 24, 2014

I'd be willing to bet this company is within the guidelines as to how they describe their product. There are rules to follow if you label your product "made in USA". There is raw material to consider as well as the amount of "value" added to the product in order to classify it as "made in USA". The weight of components is also taken into account. The cost to cast that heavy bar here in the USA will no doubt outweigh the cost to have the stand steel brackets stamped out and welded by some robot in China.

Skin · Jan 24, 2014

wmartin said:
I wonder sometimes why a person welds on it at all.

Jack stands look so simple that you'd think that the only employee in the factory is a night watchman who has access to the on/off switch.

Often times things like these are made in batches, its not a constant manufacturing process so automation makes little sense. Oh and labor, for a basic job like that, is cheap.

wmartin · Jan 24, 2014

Skin said:
Often times things like these are made in batches, its not a constant manufacturing process so automation makes little sense. Oh and labor, for a basic job like that, is cheap.

I just assume that the volumes aren't high enough to justify the capital expense of really automating the whole deal.

Ironhorse · Jan 24, 2014

Skin said:
They do supply the Snap-On ones. SO customer service confirmed the imported bases quite some time ago.

Yes they do...and yes I have been whinning about the two sets I bought...lol. The bases are made in China and the arms are made in the USA, then assembled and boxed in the us...sad part was the outer box was from China...which is what gave it away....so I hold my cars up from recycled cars that more then likely have been recycled a few time...and thus why I use all for with a Jack underneath just in case...and yes a 100% made in USA jack :lol_hitti

Ironhorse · Jan 24, 2014

Ohh...and for the record ( which I called out K&L motorcycle lifts, etc on....) if you have a factory in China, with Chinese people in it, and Chinese people making it...guess what?? IT IS MADE IN CHINA!!! Come on...made in USA is one of the 50 states...not a factory over sea's with your prints an or spec's....I am sure a steak in China is not like a steak in the US even if it is cooked to US spec's.....

SweetD · Jan 24, 2014

wmartin said:
I just assume that the volumes aren't high enough to justify the capital expense of really automating the whole deal.

Very rarely is it worthwhile to "automate the whole deal" on most any product, even at what most would consider "high volumes". Way more expensive than most realize to do so. And the inherent assembly equipment downtime, the product throughput, and overall quality issues that typically result from "assembly automation" usually end up far outweighing the effort to automate in the first place.

Dave

wmartin · Jan 24, 2014

SweetD said:
Very rarely is it worthwhile to "automate the whole deal" on most any product, even at what most would consider "high volumes". Way more expensive than most realize to do so. And the inherent assembly equipment downtime, the product throughput, and overall quality issues that typically result from "assembly automation" usually end up far outweighing the effort to automate in the first place.

Dave

It's certainly obvious in some portions of workflow, a pick and place machine being a prime example. I'm mostly just surprised that the welding isn't automated.

theamcaddict · Jan 24, 2014

Ironhorse said:
Yes they do...and yes I have been whinning about the two sets I bought...lol. The bases are made in China and the arms are made in the USA, then assembled and boxed in the us...sad part was the outer box was from China...which is what gave it away....so I hold my cars up from recycled cars that more then likely have been recycled a few time...and thus why I use all for with a Jack underneath just in case...and yes a 100% made in USA jack

Your snap on thread was the first link i clicked when i started my google-fu (search).

I returned the stands to sears tonight but im still fired up about hein-wernet. What about the floor jacks?

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Are my new hein werner jack stands Made in the USA?

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