1/4 drive - Koken vs Snap On.
- Thread starter 2ndGearRubber
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Odd-job
Well-known member
Happy bday!
Just want to note, with all the time 2ndGear has spent on this thread and over analyzing this critical purchase decision he could have bought 2 sets of Snap On from all of the BJ jobs (ball joint) he could have banged out in the mean time.
Just want to note, with all the time 2ndGear has spent on this thread and over analyzing this critical purchase decision he could have bought 2 sets of Snap On from all of the BJ jobs (ball joint) he could have banged out in the mean time.
Pinemarten
Well-known member
Doing ball joint replacements in the Rust Belt might be "Hard Time" but it isn't prison!
Wrench97
Well-known member
When I started I got buy SAE and then had to add metric later.................................funny thing is in trucking you still find a lot of SAE bolts seems like just the last 10 years everything but air line fittings have gone to metric.....................
I personally think Williams USA and SO are the same in this case. Because from a manufacturing and logistical standpoint, it doesn't make sense to make a lesser product for Williams on the same assy line to maybe save 5% on materials; instead of just charging 5% more for the Williams- since there is very little cross-shopping between brands as they target different markets. Making them the same, less markings, greatly simplifies production and logistics; this is easy to justify even without increasing the price on Williams a few dollars a set- no stocking two materials, no variance in heat treatment- you can combine both products on the same line and then just mark them differently.
Ok, let's say they're not and the Williams are 90% as good for 30% the cost; that's still a win, IMO. What is funny is that people (that pay 3X as much for SO) refuse to admit they could be the same because at 3X the price, the SO just has to be better. It has to be.
Either way, I really don't see how you can justify the SO premium if the OP can just buy the 3 sizes he regularly wears out from SO and then have the warranty for the few sockets he actually uses, vs paying the warranty premium on everything. Will you really ever need a replacement on that 5, 6, 7, 9, 11....deep socket? Probably not. But you are paying for it. It's like how SO sells the screwdriver sets with ~4 slotted screwdrivers and 3 phillips; and the #2 6" phillips is going to see 99% of the use; yet you're paying for the warranty on all of them.
Ok, let's say they're not and the Williams are 90% as good for 30% the cost; that's still a win, IMO. What is funny is that people (that pay 3X as much for SO) refuse to admit they could be the same because at 3X the price, the SO just has to be better. It has to be.
Either way, I really don't see how you can justify the SO premium if the OP can just buy the 3 sizes he regularly wears out from SO and then have the warranty for the few sockets he actually uses, vs paying the warranty premium on everything. Will you really ever need a replacement on that 5, 6, 7, 9, 11....deep socket? Probably not. But you are paying for it. It's like how SO sells the screwdriver sets with ~4 slotted screwdrivers and 3 phillips; and the #2 6" phillips is going to see 99% of the use; yet you're paying for the warranty on all of them.
OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
About the only SAE I use on cars is 1/4 for aftermarket hose clamps. The rest of the SAE use is for the pullers, chasers, pressing tools that for some reason all need to still be SAE. That said I have a full set of SAE sockets and wrenches. Sometimes you're in a situation where a fastener can only be reached with an angle wrench, and the flats are pairs of 13mm, 14mm, and 9/16. Luckily I have moved away from most pre-metric vehicles as I don't typically care for working on them. Most of that stuff is 30+ years old at this point and often not worth the hassle. Last major SAE job was a waterpump? on an early 70s Mustang.
I tell the newbies this over and over. Typically they don't want to save up and buy, tekton, or whoever in full. The tool truck stuff is amongst the best in the world. But one often doesn't -need- the best in the world starting out. One needs a full set of metric deep/shallow chrome in 1/4 and 3/8, extensions, 1/2 impact deep/shallow, etc. I always preach to buy cheaper stuff first, decent but cheaper. Then upgrade as needed. Guys are slumming it trying to do alignments without a 24mm wrench, while paying off tool truck impact guns...... while an Astro Thor imapct is like $140.
OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I will say, for stuff like 1/2 drive impact sockets, or 3/8 chrome, buying snap on can make sense. If you're using it daily, the stuff IS going to fail. Not if, but when.
I have sets of Williams USA 1/2 impact sockets for instance. In my career, I've basically bought a set of snap-on impacts with the HF, Sunex, Williams, SK, etc I've bought. Now I'm just buying singles from snap-on. What's good and bad about SO is they don't really give discounts for sets. If you have 10 sockets, at $20 each, they'll sell the set for $196. So buying singles has little/no penalty unless we're talking promo stuff.
All of this said, if I bought everything snap-on from day one, I'd have much more invested and not nessessarily need the warranty or increased performance. Like my 1/2 drive chrome SAE 6 points, are all Craftsman and some other USA brand long out of business. When I need a 1 1/16 socket on a breaker bar, it's typically not a delicate nor precision operation, so I do just fine.
I have sets of Williams USA 1/2 impact sockets for instance. In my career, I've basically bought a set of snap-on impacts with the HF, Sunex, Williams, SK, etc I've bought. Now I'm just buying singles from snap-on. What's good and bad about SO is they don't really give discounts for sets. If you have 10 sockets, at $20 each, they'll sell the set for $196. So buying singles has little/no penalty unless we're talking promo stuff.
All of this said, if I bought everything snap-on from day one, I'd have much more invested and not nessessarily need the warranty or increased performance. Like my 1/2 drive chrome SAE 6 points, are all Craftsman and some other USA brand long out of business. When I need a 1 1/16 socket on a breaker bar, it's typically not a delicate nor precision operation, so I do just fine.
SO isn't going to be losing $ over time, at least ~10 years, on warranty thru sets, because they know the warranty rate and adjust for that with pricing. This is why their 1/4" socket set cost 2.5-3.5X what Williams USA or Proto does. For sure if you use that socket set for 30 years every day, maybe you'll come out ahead. But SO is like the casino where they can set the pricing, or the odds, so that the vast majority of their customers, probably 90%, will lose $ on that set of sockets or screwdrivers. If the majority of purchasers were actually coming out ahead on warranty vs price, they'd be losing $, and not printing $; yet they print $, year after year. This means that most of their customers are losing $ on the deal.
Now if you buy a Williams, Tekton, Wiha, Knipex..... set, and just replace the 10-20% of items that you actually use with SO, then I think that you will come out ahead. But this requires logic, and
OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
SO isn't going to be losing $ over time, at least ~10 years, on warranty thru sets, because they know the warranty rate and adjust for that with pricing. This is why their 1/4" socket set cost 2.5-3.5X what Williams USA or Proto does. For sure if you use that socket set for 30 years every day, maybe you'll come out ahead. But SO is like the casino where they can set the pricing, or the odds, so that the vast majority of their customers, probably 90%, will lose $ on that set of sockets or screwdrivers. If the majority of purchasers were actually coming out ahead on warranty vs price, they'd be losing $, and not printing $; yet they print $, year after year. This means that most of their customers are losing $ on the deal.
Now if you buy a Williams, Tekton, Wiha, Knipex..... set, and just replace the 10-20% of items that you actually use with SO, then I think that you will come out ahead. But this requires logic, and
Yup, the lube techs pay for my warranty.
Please stop spreading the ideal that Williams is relabled snap-on. That's simply not a smart take with hardline goods like wrenches, sockets, etc.
Snapon has higher hardnes, higher quality steels, uses unique and higher quality broaching hardware, and changes it out more frequently (for better tolerances). There is loads of testing out there on "corporate cousins" where the results confound those believe they these are just re-labels of the same underlying good.
Snap on vs Williams Wrenches = ∆4pts higher HRC
Heres AvE 's review of williams 1/4 drive USA sockets...on you tube
"Williams; Yard sale kwality at Proto prices"
Why would they possibly do that? And why would they disclose differences when people like you are willing to believe they have discovered the secret to getting snap on tools at 75% off? This is a $4B company we’re talking about.
With respect, Williams = Snap On is one of the most misguided GJ conspiracy theories.
@drtyler is right, I don’t have proof, but there’s plenty of evidence. I didn’t want to hijack the thread with this, so I recommend starting a new thread if you are interested in discussing further.
Congrats 2ndgear! I think you’ll be happy with your Williams 1/4 drive.
scooby074
Well-known member
Yowza. Those socket sets are all sorts of messed upPlease stop spreading the ideal that Williams is relabled snap-on. That's simply not a smart take with hardline goods like wrenches, sockets, etc.
Snapon has higher hardnes, higher quality steels, uses unique and higher quality broaching hardware, and changes it out more frequently (for better tolerances). There is loads of testing out there on "corporate cousins" where the results confound those believe they these are just re-labels of the same underlying good.
Snap on vs Williams Wrenches = ∆4pts higher HRC
Heres AvE 's review of williams 1/4 drive USA sockets...on you tube
"Williams; Yard sale kwality at Proto prices"
KnurledNut
Well-known member
How old is the Williams socket?
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
But it is relabeled Snap-on in regards to sockets. We have even had reps on here saying they are made in the same shop with the same materials and on the same line. It’s why you always end up with a hodgepodge of sockets like AvE did. CAT/Williams/Snap-on are all made to the same standard at the same place by the same people. The main distributor literally said Snap-on sockets go through more finish work but that is the sole difference.Please stop spreading the ideal that Williams is relabled snap-on. That's simply not a smart take with hardline goods like wrenches, sockets, etc.
Snapon has higher hardnes, higher quality steels, uses unique and higher quality broaching hardware, and changes it out more frequently (for better tolerances). There is loads of testing out there on "corporate cousins" where the results confound those believe they these are just re-labels of the same underlying good.
Snap on vs Williams Wrenches = ∆4pts higher HRC
Heres AvE 's review of williams 1/4 drive USA sockets...on you tube
"Williams; Yard sale kwality at Proto prices"
As far as wrenches, ratchets, and other hand tools, you are correct. Williams has their own distinct stuff. But we are talking sockets (though if I had to take a guess their SAE bit sockets and the chrome extensions are the same from my experiences).
OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Sorry to be a buzz-kill but here we are in post #130 of this thread
asking about "the best 1/4 sockets"
And the thread is titled "koken vs snap on..."
and some how we ended up with williams??
Options are nice, that's why I posted. Would anyone argue USA Williams sockets are not among the best in the world? Just by the numbers they have to be in the top 1%, look at all the cheapo brands on Amazon. Lump all the premium stuff in a list, maybe 10 to 15 boutique socket manufacturers exist world wide? They're a good product, I agree there is some difference between the Williams and snap on, and I've had more "soft" Williams sockets than snap on.
I saved money for -dimensionally similar- Williams sockets, I'll buy the snap on singles as required.
OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I can tell you the Williams chrome extensions are thicker, in 3/8 drive. Still nice tools though.
Looking through their catalog, I found they make USA 1/4 drive wobble extensions. If they're 50% of snap on quality that would be a good value.
“rep” meaning sales rep. And not the Snap On sales rep, the toolsdelivered sales rep IIRC. So the guy selling them said they were the same. And he didn’t say they were the same as I recall ( I recall that post). He said they were the same except they short cutted some finishing and chroming steps IIRC.
We know they are not as hard, so maybe that’s part of what he heard regarding “finishing” (fair enough- I think that’s a reasonable thing to think).
Some people say the broaches are identical, some say clearly not. I suspect Williams uses broaches longer, which is responsible for the variation.
We know they are not identical dimensionally, tho differences are small. Some of that may be due to abrasive finishing, not different tooling per se.
My GUESS is, assuming a piece of tooling like a broach, produces good tools for 10,000 units, they run it for 20,000. First 10k get Snap On branding, last 10 becomes Williams. When they get to abrasives, same story. Quicker through heat treat, shorter soaks, warmer quenches etc. This is one possible explanation of how you can make tools of 2 different prices and qualities on a single production line.
The part of this discussion that raises my hackles is the apparent notion that factories are black boxes that produce widgets or “machines determine quality”. You feed raw materials in one end and magically get this product out the other. I’d like you all to think of factories more like restaurants. What we do inside the black box matters. We control our product and manipulate the machines and processes to produce products we’re happy with
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OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I think this is the general understanding. The Williams are not identical, just very close.
I've read cpu chips are made similarly, they make a run of however many 000s, test them when they roll off line. The fastest chips are labeled *** and sold at a premium, a bit slower are labeled yyy and sold at standard pricing and the really slow chips are labeled zzz and sold as the economy product. Same materials, same production line, same batch but three (or more) products at end of the day. The products themselves have significant performance differences and are marketed accordingly. Maybe it's the same with Snap-on/Williams they test specs (e.g. hardness, uniformity, finish, etc.) and batch them for further processing accordingly. Who knows...
In the tech world, it's pretty common to release the same product under different part numbers that are sold in different channels. Sometimes it's because the channels get special pricing or other terms and it makes sure those don't bleed into other channels, but there are cases where things like warranty is different.
Since warranty is one of the highest non-BOM costs to a lot of products, it's not hard to think SO would mainly be protecting their truck pricing and ensuring the trucks don't have to provide service/warranty to a product not from that channel. The Williams products serve a different market at a different price, but they also let SO keep the machines running, which is the most-profitable way to run.
IDGAF either way, but all the incredulousness here seems as lacking in evidence as the folks that suspect the sockets may be the same blanks in use on the same line.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
New Williams extensions have some machining differences vs Snap-on. Also, its not the same length. My 6” CAT lacks retention detents on the female end. All good tools but their are differences.
The Williams impact swivel adaptors are an excellent USA option vs Snap-on considering the price difference. The same goes for the non-impact reducers. They use the same replaceable square bit like Snap-on. These tend to fly under the radar of options when people are looking to buy.
Sorry for being slightly off topic, but the train was already derailed, so lets get back to 1/4 sockets shall we...
The Williams impact swivel adaptors are an excellent USA option vs Snap-on considering the price difference. The same goes for the non-impact reducers. They use the same replaceable square bit like Snap-on. These tend to fly under the radar of options when people are looking to buy.
Sorry for being slightly off topic, but the train was already derailed, so lets get back to 1/4 sockets shall we...
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CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
I wish I still had my Williams stuff for pictures but I gave it all away to another member last year. But my SAE hex bit sockets were pressed in just like my coworker’s Snappys. Also my 3/8” extensions looked just like your Snappy ones without the lines engraved on the female end. Maybe I just had a weird batch but they legitimately looked and were dimensionally the same as my coworker’s Snap-on bit sockets and extensions.1/4 drive 1/4” Proto vs Williams & 3/8 drive 7/32” old Snap-on vs Williams
The Williams uses a set screw while the older Snap-on had a roll pin. New Snap-on now uses dimple deformed press fit bit inserts. Im not sure about current Williams.
(The Protos 1/4 drives are sweet BTW!)
View attachment 2007880
New Williams extension (left in first photo) has some machining differences vs Snap-on. Also, its not the same length. The 6” CAT (second photo) lacks retention detents on the female end. All good tools but their are differences.
View attachment 2007881
View attachment 2007882
The Williams impact swivel adaptors are an excellent USA option vs Snap-on considering the price difference. The same goes for the non-impact reducers. They use the same replaceable square bit like Snap-on. These tend to fly under the radar of options when people are looking to buy.
View attachment 2007883
View attachment 2007884
Sorry for being slightly off topic, but the train was already derailed, so lets get back to 1/4 sockets shall we...
We have clearly seen quality escapes including mixed brands in Williams deliveries. Screwdriver shanks are sometimes slightly off axis, tho the blades appear to be Snap On part numbers. The handles appear to use Snap On HH molds, tho they may be older molds and they are restricted in colors available to blue only(?).
Sockets are clearly not graded like diamonds. They appear deliberately different, which makes sense if you think about it. You really don’t want a Williams socket ground like a Snap on but with a lower heat treat. That would be a BAD socket. Also, the roller stamping is not the end of the manufacturing process.
You guys have probably watched the videos. The sockets are made out of bar stock. Any change to that shape comes at an incremental cost. Shaping, smoothing, grinding, polishing, knurling etc all add cost. Reduce or eliminate any of that will result in manufacturing cost savings.
bcradio
Well-known member
Nah bruh, you're the misguided one here. You jealous cause you paid more for your tools?
Like I said, if I was a betting man, I'd say they are the same.
You're much better making that argument with CAT distrubtion tools, but not williams.
Williams..all the bad design decisions of the snap-on 1/4 drives, without any of the redeeming quality of materials...
Snap-on isn't my go-to for 1/4s, because I dont' work on airplanes on the daily, and IMHO there are usally better shapes/sizes for most things i see these days. But when I want grab a snap-on socket (in any drive size), its usually because the hardest and highest quality steel.
And the best grade of snap-on sockets are indeed very, very good. Even if you don't love the design decisions, you cannot help but appreciate they work well in their niche.
OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
FWIW the deep set arrived today, still waiting for the shallow set.
I was sort of hoping there would be a Snap On socket mixed in just to stir the pot.
I was sort of hoping there would be a Snap On socket mixed in just to stir the pot.
How is comparing different wrenches relevant to comparing these sockets? It is quite obvious Snap On FD+ are totally different to the super combos.Please stop spreading the ideal that Williams is relabled snap-on. That's simply not a smart take with hardline goods like wrenches, sockets, etc.
Snapon has higher hardnes, higher quality steels, uses unique and higher quality broaching hardware, and changes it out more frequently (for better tolerances). There is loads of testing out there on "corporate cousins" where the results confound those believe they these are just re-labels of the same underlying good.
Snap on vs Williams Wrenches = ∆4pts higher HRC
Heres AvE 's review of williams 1/4 drive USA sockets...on you tube
"Williams; Yard sale kwality at Proto prices"
The sockets are not. The silly youtube guy isn't actually saying anything either, except it seems he is claiming he got a bunch of different sockets in the same packaging. If he got Snap On and CAT along the Williams ones in what he ordered, there's even more reason to assume they're all the same.
That is not established. Who or what proves Williams sockets are not as hard? Even if the steels were different, the hardness can be exactly the same with different steels. Did anyone do an accurate test? With that I mean - actually cut one in half, polished it up and did a Vickers test. The differences are probably too small to distinguish them with a Rockwell test at all (if someone did it).
Just hypothetically - Williams production gets in an order for a batch of Williams sockets, Bahco sockets and CAT sockets but no order of Snap On sockets at the moment. What happens if the tooling like the broach and the abrasives is just worn out at the moment (did 20000+ parts and needs to be replaced)?
As far as I know how manufacturing goes in such companies, they WILL NOT make a big series of Snap On sockets to keep on storage just because they replaced the tooling, and make those sockets until "the tool wears out a bit" and then start making different sockets with the worn out tooling. That's just very silly in my opinion. The production plan for making Williams sockets does not have a step that would say "wait until the snap on broach is worn out just right".
What they do is they order a new broach (or take one from the spare parts storage) and make the sockets with the new tool.
If the same sockets are made on the same machine - how likely is it that the broach tool is different? How much does the cost to make the tooling change? Is it cheaper for them to order 2, 3 or 4 different broaches for the 4 brands to make the same sockets in those 4 "tolerance classes"?
Probably not, it is even cheaper to order 10 same broaches and save money with using the exact same tool for all of them. The possibly minor tolerance difference would not be meaningful at all in the cost of manufacturing the tools. It does make production planning a big headache. Instead of having a machine that does the 19mm broach, they would then have a machine that does a 19mm Snap On broach and would need to be retooled into a machine that makes a 19mm Williams broach. That re-tooling downtime is not worth it. The more precise Snap On broach would never cost twice as much to manufacture - and even if it did, the downtime for re-tooling and production planning would not be worth it.
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You either have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to LOL...
There are plenty of examples of brittle HRC 55+ (King ****) tools and well performing mid-40s (proto), that's not really the point. Hazet is mid 40s hardness and they are very good tools, its just their companies style that they use matte crhom and middle-hardnesses. Snap on typically 50+ HRC in sockets and wrenches, they have a unique feel to them.
But in no way are two lines with 5 HRC points using the same steel/post processing....no way jose not happening.
This is true whether you like their wrenches or sockets or not. As I said earlier, I'm not a huge fan of snappy 1/4 shallows myself...I prefer other sockets to snap on....but... I DO prefer snap on's steel quality to anyone else....and you can definitely tell the difference.
I would be the first person buying up off-label stuff if they were using the same quality steel, since that's about 95% of the reason to buy snap-on (even when you don't love the designs).
Its the same reason many people like snap-on breaker bars...and pry bars...when the ony thing between you and a trip to the ER is steel quality...smart people pick steel quality over doctor bills.
But know my tools pretty well at this piont, and if you know your tools...like inside and out... nobody is sitting there saying A and B are the same when they are not. If you go on ebay, people are selling CAT for like snap-on prices, like 2-3x what they are selling williams for.
Nobody is buying williams and thinking its snap-on, except for the times where its very well documented they are both re-labeling the same 3rd party suppliers or using older snap-on designs (like hard-handles and 936 ratchets, and the older ratcheting wrenches..or whatever).
There is no "truck tool equivalents" thread with 20 years of reports where professionals sit there and say snap on and williams sockets are the same...LOL
I honestly hope you get an entire set of CAT or something good as a suprise...
Your answer is "mechanics know". My experience tells me mechanics can be a very superstitious lot so that argument does not convince me in the slightest...
Also, still have no idea what you mean to tell with the second and third paragraph. How does comparing wrenches probably made on totally different product lines prove that sockets made on the same product line are different? Does comparing Taiwanese Williams sockets to Snap On sockets suddenly mean the USA Williams sockets are also worse?
You can reach 50 HRc with a ton of completely different steels. Again, not sure what you're trying to convey.
Unless someone actually performed tests of both sockets, I hold your statements in very low regard. You are not going to "feel the steel" difference between Williams and Snap On. Try saying that out loud and you might realize how silly that sounds
I'd say it's actually quite well documented that the williams usa and snap on sockets are the same. The exact same manufacturing plant and same dimensions and even videos of the production exist. The only other argument is snap on dumps a ton of money into using just a tiny bit different steel that's better than williams but there's no real way to prove it.
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OP
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
If someone has access to all the fancy steel and hardness testing stuff, I will gladly front the $40 to buy some sockets for science.
I actually had a member here offer me a set of CAT sockets, shallows I think. I'll be buying some fancy snap-on 3/8 shallows soon the replace some worn Kokens.
I honestly hope you get an entire set of CAT or something good as a suprise...
I actually had a member here offer me a set of CAT sockets, shallows I think. I'll be buying some fancy snap-on 3/8 shallows soon the replace some worn Kokens.
Someone has actually done hardness testing of both sockets. That’s what I’ve been saying. And as I recall, not close.
@F-22: you know all this. When you pull on a ratchet handle with any load, your tools, everything between your hand and that fastener winds up. Snap on tools are generally stiffer. You get used to moving your ratchet a certain amount, for a given load. It’s a Hooke’s Law thing. If you are working on airplanes, spending a lot of time with torque wrenches, you’re gonna feel the difference. If T-45 says he can feel the difference, I believe him.
No, opposite. Well documented that they are NOT dimensionally the same. They outwardly look alike which fools YouTube people. But checked with a caliper, not the same.
My guess is it’s the exact same steel. The original toolsdelivered thread on this subject is findable and what was told to him was chroming and finishing (I think grinding, polishing, all fit into this) and there was talk about heat treating in there IIRC. Imagine heat treating tons of tools everyday and just controlling the quench temperature, which as you know effects hardness. Maybe Williams sockets go in with the pliers, I don’t know.
Guys: don’t want to be rude, but don’t want to spend time on a subject that’s already been discussed, on a subject people don’t care enough about to start a proper thread for and collect all the data. Every 5 yrs or so this gets discussed in the wrong threads and we keep having this discussion with the newbies. And obviously, if you think Williams is Snap on just cheaper, bless your heart. Not trying to discourage anyone from buying Williams.
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You guys are talking past each other a bit.
I don't have enough caffeine in me yet to go back and forensically read the exchange, but I do recall thinking that comparing wrenches made in two different lines wasn't really the point. No-one has presented any data on the HRC of Williams or SO sockets. The AvE video (like so many of his these days) was utterly useless. I'd love to see TTC do soocket
In TTC wrench tests, there are three wrenches that come from the same ODM and have the same head design/AS/etc. - Carlyle, Icon and Milwaukee (lengths are different and Milwaukee has a more-decorative shaft design). The Carlyle has by far the highest HRC (58.2). where the Icon and Milwaukee have 46.2 and 49, respectively. All of them performed very similarly on the psi test (1465, 1495 and 1492). Their rankings are currently #5, #6 and #14 with ratings of 9.66 for Carlyle (same as SO FD+), 9.33 for Icon and 8.33 for Milwaukee.
All three are made in the same factory and presumably on the same lines. All produce a similar amount of psi in the test, despite the top two having significantly-different HRC ratings.
One of my conclusions from looking at their test information (they can't account for sample variation, etc. so it can't really be called data) was that HRC wasn't as much a factor as overall design, and even low clearance tolerances didn't really make a big difference in psi generated. The Wright broke the bolt with a pretty-poor 0.17 tolerance just like the#1-rated Mac did at 0.09.
Based on what I saw in the test, I chose Icon for the best bang for the buck, and they've been great so far.
I'd love the see TTC do similar testing for sockets. Over the holidays I'm going to do some comparison across my SO, Icon, SK, Tekton, Sunex and Ko-ken sets, but I admit right up front it will have to be considered a subjective exercise - I'm not a test engineer.
I don't either - who are you?
You keep citing testing and information, but you don't link to it or post it. That relegates your posts back to opinion.
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HannibalLecter
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- Aug 26, 2023
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Can you post the worn kokens if you have the time? Never seen well used Kokens and im curious
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Sure, I can post them Monday when I'm back at work. They're not awful.
I've had the 3/8 shallows either 6 months or 18 months, I bought them around summer. I think it's the former. Most of the issue is the 14mm and 17mm, mostly just the 14mm shows wear. There's a thread in free-parking about sockets getting stuck on lug bolts on a VW. That's basically the issue with them. My 1/4 stuff obviously doesn't see as much peak force, but I have some wear on some 1/4 kokens too.
Most of my jacked up looking sockets are 3/8 and 1/2 impacts. My stuff gets abused, although I typically don't impact on chrome. Only time I do is infrequent use of 1/4 drive chrome on a little M12 impact driver. Good for un-crusty M6 hardware, plastic dash panel screws, fender liners, etc. I'm certainly not afraid to beat a socket onto a rotten fastener though.