12 point SAE sockets...keep or dump?

[Hootbro]

My theory is that 12pt are cheaper to produce due to less metal. .....................

There is less material after the broach cut of a 12pt but a 6pt socket is using the same blank. So they are not cheaper to produce.

 

[jeffk14]

I guess I'm just old.

The first tools I ever used as a kid were my grandfather's. This was in the late 1960's & early 1970's. ALL his sockets were 12-point. A mixture of mostly SK, Herbrand and Mustang.

The first 6-point sockets I ever SAW was around the late 1970's and I remember thinking how cheap that looked. Tie all that in with my 30 years in aviation and if I had to choose, I'd keep the 12-point and let the 6-point go.

 

[pipsters]

I wouldn't sell both sets, and I don't think I'd sell just one set either. Think about it this way, you'll sell it for a lower price than what it'll cost you if you bought them back at a later date.

If you wanna sell them because you feel like you have a lot of the and can spare losing a set, go ahead. Have you divied up the sets to the likely locations you'll want/need a set of sockets? Vehicles, garage, house?

I want to do it more for getting rid of clutter. I hate clutter. Can't stand having stuff I won't *ever* use at all.

You tend to see 12 point metric bolts but I haven't come across any 12 point SAE bolts yet. I don't and won't ever own a larger International Harvester tractor or semi so that kinda stuff won't ever come up.

This isn't a debate about 6 vs 12...

I wasn't really asking about the 12 pt vs 6 pt debate, I'm more wondering about the prevalence of 12 point SAE bolts. I just haven't come across one ever and was wondering where they were. I know in aviation they are around, and if I were to ever get an A&P I'd just buy another set. The chances of that are around .05% though...

 

[pipsters]

I guess I'm just old.

The first tools I ever used as a kid were my grandfather's. This was in the late 1960's & early 1970's. ALL his sockets were 12-point. A mixture of mostly SK, Herbrand and Mustang.

The first 6-point sockets I ever SAW was around the late 1970's and I remember thinking how cheap that looked. Tie all that in with my 30 years in aviation and if I had to choose, I'd keep the 12-point and let the 6-point go.

I think the reasoning for the 12 point back then was the low tooth count ratchets. It was a design tradeoff.

 

[bcradio]

If its a third set of the same sizes, then yeah I'd get rid of it. Otherwise I would keep them as a backup. Put em in a ziplock or 2 and throw them in the closet out of sight. Now if it was a massive 3/4 drive set that takes up a ton of room, then I would probably sell.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

I want to do it more for getting rid of clutter. I hate clutter. Can't stand having stuff I won't *ever* use at all.

I can appreciate that. I do the same thing and usually don't have trouble letting go. But not machines and tools

If you're comfortable letting them go and you've determined it's likely you won't need 'em, liquidate.

 

[Steevo]

12pts can also be used on square fasteners, dont forget that its a triple square...
.

bingo!

 

[TwoInch]

There is no right or wrong to using 12 point or 6 point, the answer is they both work. Yes a 6 point will fit better but everyone and I mean everyone will without a second thought after having trouble undoing a bolt or nut with a socket of either kind they will go to their toolbox grab a wrench and give a good swing to loosen it, 99% of the time that wrench is 12 point.

Thats what I find funny people will debate for years on 12 point or 6 point yet will without thought happily swing on a tight bolt with a 12 point wrench.

i dont understand why people still harp about 6pts being a superior tool, i figured that should be long gone in todays world.

the only reason a 12pt is going to strip a fastener any more than a 6pt, is if you are using the wrong size. when the size is correct, they both grab the same. some 12pts grab better than some 6pts.

here is the socket contact thead again, for anyone who has not looked. it has tons of pictures and examples. very informative.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73245

 

[TwoInch]

This isn't a debate about 6 vs 12...

I wasn't really asking about the 12 pt vs 6 pt debate, I'm more wondering about the prevalence of 12 point SAE bolts. I just haven't come across one ever and was wondering where they were. I know in aviation they are around, and if I were to ever get an A&P I'd just buy another set. The chances of that are around .05% though...

whoops, shoulda read the rest of the thread.

 

[jeffk14]

I think the reasoning for the 12 point back then was the low tooth count ratchets. It was a design tradeoff.

I don't know about that. I also inherited an SK "Wayne" ratchet from from my grandfather from about that same time period. I don't know the tooth count, but it's pretty dang fine!

The model # is 42470 if anybody knows anything about those.

 

[plinker]

I don't know about that. I also inherited an SK "Wayne" ratchet from from my grandfather from about that same time period. I don't know the tooth count, but it's pretty dang fine!

The model # is 42470 if anybody knows anything about those.

The S-K's were the exception to the rule for their day as most ratchet's were 20 to 30 tooth while the S-K's were 50+ tooth (depending on drive size).



The thing I look at is if you have something it's "paid for", and doesnt cost anything to keep it. I have had some tools for 4-5 years and never used them yet, but most of them I have have been used at least once (mostly service tool's). Some tool's (like a fuel line disconnect for example) I finally used as I got a truck that uses one on the filter. Before then I had not used it. It all depends on what you do, given time.

 

[O_M_Jeep]

I would think of them like an airbag, ***** to deal with, always in the way when working, but the one time you need it, it pays for itself all at once.

 

[LSU]

If you have the space and this is your only set of 12 points, I'd keep them. As soon as you sell them - you'll need them.

 

[cglasgow]

You tend to see 12 point metric bolts but I haven't come across any 12 point SAE bolts yet. I don't and won't ever own a larger International Harvester tractor or semi so that kinda stuff won't ever come up.

This isn't a debate about 6 vs 12...

I wasn't really asking about the 12 pt vs 6 pt debate, I'm more wondering about the prevalence of 12 point SAE bolts. I just haven't come across one ever and was wondering where they were. I know in aviation they are around, and if I were to ever get an A&P I'd just buy another set. The chances of that are around .05% though...

12-pt sockets aren't for only 12-pt fasteners. To say otherwise is opening the 6 vs 12 debate. ;-)

Keep them both if you ever think you might need to use a breaker bar on something....
(Or sell the 6-pt sets)

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Unless you NEVER venture outside the realm of fairly recent production passenger cars, you are liable to run into 12 point SAE bolts, sometimes in some "I would have never imagined" type places. From just working on my own stuff, I've found the agitator on my washing machine uses a 3/8"-16 12 point bolt and the brake caliper hold downs on my boat trailer are 3/8"-16 12 point as well. I've noticed that more and more electric motors are getting shipped with 12 points as well.

My Fairlane project is full of them (rod bolts, intake, headers, flywheel, balancer), as are a lot of other cars using aftermarket bolt kits.

 

[O_M_Jeep]

I just watched a video from NG about the Bugatti Veyron, and while it's unlikely any of us will ever see one, the mono-**** is held to the engine cradle with 14 12pt bolts/nuts.

So I guess thats one example of a currently produced vehicle using them exclusively.

 

[ihateminimumwage]

There's 12pt and square head fasteners in/on the 6.9/7.3idi Diesels in Ford trucks.

 

[ajchien]

I'd keep them.

But my reasoning may be different from others: it takes more effort than i want to spend to try to sell them.

 

[RedFordTruck]

^^^^this^^^^


and really, only widows and girlie men sell tools.




edit: Thief’s, dumdasses, and guys really desperate for money sell tools too.

Nope! I bought one of the $200 Kobalt 227 piece sets on black friday last year for $95 after tax. Used it a little then decided in March i wanted a different set that would actually fit in my truck tool box. Put the Kobalt set on Craigslist and got $150 for it. Used that money to buy a $400 Craftsman 309 piece set for $200 (came with free $10 gift card made it basically $190) and then sold the 16 Chinese Ratcheting wrenches out of it for $80.

So basically I paid 95 to get $150 . Paid $50 more to get $200 C-man set. In the C-man set for $ 145. Got $10 back to be in the C-man for $135. $80 for the ratcheting wrenches means I paid $55 for what was left of the set. Not bad for 293 pieces.

 

[6-Speed]

I had an application once where I needed to torque a jam nut in a recessed hole on differential cover. The 6pt socket was too big to fit into the hole and could not reach the jam nut ... but the 12pt socket did.

 

[franzdom]

I had an application once where I needed to torque a jam nut in a recessed hole on differential cover. The 6pt socket was too big to fit into the hole and could not reach the jam nut ... but the 12pt socket did.

You do realize there is no reasonable explanation for 6 point to be larger OD than 12 point? It will vary by manufacturer and perhaps by socket to socket but by design there is no difference.

 

[pipsters]

I just watched a video from NG about the Bugatti Veyron, and while it's unlikely any of us will ever see one, the mono-**** is held to the engine cradle with 14 12pt bolts/nuts.

So I guess thats one example of a currently produced vehicle using them exclusively.

Doubt they are SAE though...

 

[RedFordTruck]

I like to use a 12 pt 3/8'' drive 21mm chrome socket on an impact gun for rounded bolts...




(Think I made every GJ member cringe while reading that...)

 

[Ohio Auto]

Just curious. Outside of aviation where I doubt I will ever be taking apart a jet, is there a legit reason to keep say 12 point 3/8" & 1/2" drive SAE sockets?

The only 12 point bolts I have ever encountered were in metric.

I'm considering selling off the 12 points from my large Craftsman purchase, shallow and deep. Just don't ever see a need for them.

I would never get rid of a rail of sockets. I've got every socket set I ever bought. They're not eating any hay..I would keep them. About the time you get rid of them you'll need one for something, never fails.

 

[KinzeMech]

I wouldn't get rid of any tool I had one of.

Any tool I have two of is one for the toolbox @work, and one for @home.

Any tool I have three of is time to sit down and think of a reason to keep it. Maybe in the toolbox of the truck.

If I have four of a tool, then, it is ok to sell one. Wait...wait a minute...I broke one of those once, better take it to work to keep as a spare.

Are you seeing where this sickness goes? Sell it, if you can bring yourself to do it. If you have four of them...

 

[6-Speed]

You do realize there is no reasonable explanation for 6 point to be larger OD than 12 point? It will vary by manufacturer and perhaps by socket to socket but by design there is no difference.

My point was if I didn't have that 12pt socket in the tool box things would not have gone as smoothly as it did ... just saying.

 

[redwrench60]

Keep. I had to have a 1/4" drive 1/4" sized 12 point socket on a 1981 vette rear driveshaft today. No access with wrench, only a socket, long extension and ratchet would work (without removing a bunch of other ****)
You can also use them to drive taps and extractors. I run into 12 pt. fasteners often enough to keep 12 pt sockets.

 

[pilotman81]

Numerous times I have been foiled by 6pt sockets when using someone else's tools. I always find that I cannot index the socket just right, and it is always when you are under a pipe or inside a crankcase or some other uncomfortable, nearly impossible to fit my ever-so-slight figure into spot... That's why I strictly use 12pt.

 

[KinzeMech]

If there was some strange reason I was forced to choose between 6 and 12 point, I would choose 12 point. It works on all fasteners (6 and 12). A 12 point socket will not round a fastener any sooner than a 6 point unless that fastener is already severely damaged/rusted.

 

[KinzeMech]

It was debated earlier that 12 point sockets do/don't work on square head fasteners.

They do. I do this regularly. The only difference is, if the 12 point box is double hex instead of triple square (i.e. most of them) you have to go oversize a tad. For example, I tighten a lot of 3/8" square head set screws, they fit perfectly into the 12 point end of my 7/16" gearwrench. Other than the size printed on the tool not being an exact match for the fastener, it works great.

 

[catsass]

Sitting at the barber shop.just read an article in Car and Driver about what tools you must have in a garage (July 2012).it says buy 6 point sockets and 12 point wrenches if you can only afford one of each. Very interesting article!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RCStocker]

My theory is that 12pt are cheaper to produce due to less metal. Only 12pt fastener I can think of are ARP rod bolts and head bolts.

From what I have noticed about pricing with Snap-on that the 12 pt are more expensive.????

 

[RCStocker]

12pts can also be used on square fasteners, dont forget that its a triple square...

as for using 12pts on a 6pt fastener, as long as the fastener is in good shape, the contact will be the same in either 6pt or 12pt for the most part. the 12pt is no more likely to round a fastener, unless its badly corroded or really super soft. that little spot on the flat thats missing on the 12pt socket never contacts a fastener flat, so it doesnt really need to be there.

another point i would like to mention is that all the sockets i have split have been 6pts, and almost all deep. i use 6pts and 12pts interchangeably, no preference unless im dealing with something badly corroded.

WOW! You need to read a little.
A 12pt socket is not the same a tripple square. They have a different angle to them.

Even Snap-on has this posted on thier web site.
A square socket has a 90 degree ange. A double and tripple still have 90 degree angles between corners on the sockets.

A 12 point has 30 degree angles. because there are 360 degrees in a circle and divided byu 12 you come up with a 30 degree angle.

Yes they both have 12 splines but the splines on one are 90 degrees and 30 on the other.

Not saying it might not bight but it alos might do a lot of damage to the fastener.

 

[Displaced Hokie]

You mean you can get 6-point sockets?

If feel that I've got something I really need to honk on, I'll throw my thick-wall 6-pt impact sockets on the breaker bar. Not so much for the 6-pt, but for the stronger socket. Otherwise, my box has both 12pt and 6pt and I use whatever.

It must be nice to be able to have both full sets of 6pt and 12pt!

 

[TwoInch]

WOW! You need to read a little.
A 12pt socket is not the same a tripple square. They have a different angle to them.

Even Snap-on has this posted on thier web site.
A square socket has a 90 degree ange. A double and tripple still have 90 degree angles between corners on the sockets.

A 12 point has 30 degree angles. because there are 360 degrees in a circle and divided byu 12 you come up with a 30 degree angle.

Yes they both have 12 splines but the splines on one are 90 degrees and 30 on the other.

Not saying it might not bight but it alos might do a lot of damage to the fastener.

hey boss, this has all been explained earlier in the thread.... check posts #12 #13 and #16 etc... i know that they arent a perfect triple square(90*), just as they are not perfect double hex broaching(120*) which has the same angle roughly as a 6pt hex broaching(120*)

old school 12pts were broached to 120*, but newer designs are less, to bring the contact off the corner of the fastener. same with 6pts, they are not broached to a hex shape anymore. even the 8pts i have are not double squares(90*), they are slightly less, again to bring the contact off corner.

360* divided by 12 means nothing. you can broach a socket with 12 pts to whatever angles you want. i dont "need to read a little" i was being generic in saying its a triple square, which it nearly is, and works as such.

for being here for such a short time, you sure like to come off as a punk.

That is a nother subject for another day how now one know the English language. It is a hoot.

really? do you read your own posts???