120/240v

[scotty95]

First off, happy holiday's to all. I have a new 230v air compressor that I need to wire up. Here is what I got. 2- 120v hots and 1 grd out of main panel in the house with single 40amp breakers. New 120/240 sub-panel in garage. I have a new 120/240v double pole breaker in garage for the compressor. I am only getting 120v thru my wires. So I checked both hots with each probe and I get nothing. Went down to the main panel, they each have 120v flowing, but when I touch both breakers for the 240v reading, I get nothing. Do I need to put a double pole breaker in the main panel, or try new 40a singles? I still need 120v in garage too. I am not an electrician, but have learned a ton on here and google. Thanks for any input, scotty.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You need a double pole breaker that connects to both phases in the main panel.

The 120v is established via 1 hot and the neutral.

Did you run 4-wire feeder to the garage? If not you wont be able to get 120v and 240v at the same time

Also what is the HP rating on your compressor motor?

 

[scotty95]

It is 6/3 wire. It's a 5hp 21 amp quincy

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is the garage detached? If so then the NM-b you ran underground is not kosher...

so youre not getting 240v potential because both breakers are on the same phase...

your pics just loaded (didnt show up before). Looks like you have a GE panel. With those, the slim breakers will connect to the same buss. You need the wider double pole breakers that take up 2 whole spaces

The compressor will need #10 THWN in pipe or #8/2 NM-b. Youll need a disconnect at the compressor if its not within sight of the panel and further than 50’ away. The compressor also needs to be hardwired unless you use expensive pin and sleeve plugs....

 

[dogdog]

nvm

 

[dogdog]

Nvm

 

[scotty95]

The garage is detached, I have 10-3 wire from sub panel to compressor which is 8' away from sub panel. I have a dryer curcuit also with 240v and only 3 wire. That is the breaker with the metal clips above the 40amp breaker and tested both them and got 240v. If I put a double pole breaker in the main panel, will that eliminate me having 110 in the garage sub panel?

 

[Snapped-off]

Yes, double pole breaker if you want 240 out there, and you'll need a 4th wire for your neutral if you want 120 out there at the same time. You need 120 from both sides of the main panel, not just any 2 120s.

 

[AntonLargiader]

If the white conductor in the photos is for that circuit, and you also have a ground, then you have everything you need for 120/240. Right now you are L1/L1/N but you need to be L1/L2/N.

Wylie asked about that wire. What is it? Individual THWN in conduit, or some cable assembly?

 

[scotty95]

Here is the panel in the garage. I am thinking that I cant get 240 from main panel the way it's wired up. Some pics aren't clear because of our weather today. The white wire is at the ground bar in main panel. I didn't do this. Was this way when bought the house. Wire is in conduit from house to garage. Thanks

 

[sparky 1971]

All other problems aside, the breaker needs to move up or down 1/2 a space so each half is on a separate phase. And be a two pole. Take out the 20 amp single pole above the 40 and move it up., then move the 20 below it. The existing might be a two pole and missing the handle tie since I've never seen two single pole 40's in a tandem. POS Generic Electric panel

 

[mike93lx]

Still haven't answered on what kind of wire you used from the house. Conduit or not, I hope it isn't nm-b

I also see lose conductors going through a clamp.

If you zoom out and share details, we can help you make it right

 

[yatg]

You need to add a separate ground bar in the garage panel and move the green and bare grounds to it.

What's this white wire doing? It looks like its in the neutral lug? Move it to the neutral bar.


You've got the main feed wires coming directly into the panel without a sheath or conduit.

 

[scotty95]

OK, the wire from house to garage is 6/3 nm-b. It was in there when I moved in. Here is what I need. Want a 35' wire from house panel to garage for-120v outlets and a 230v breaker for garage. hat size and type wire I need. I will put all the exposed wires in conduit also. And you say add a ground panel and move the grn and grnd to it. The white wire is on the ground bar in house panel. Is that wrong? Thanks again.

 

[dogdog]

OK, the wire from house to garage is 6/3 nm-b. It was in there when I moved in. Here is what I need. Want a 35' wire from house panel to garage for-120v outlets and a 230v breaker for garage. hat size and type wire I need. I will put all the exposed wires in conduit also. And you say add a ground panel and move the grn and grnd to it. The white wire is on the ground bar in house panel. Is that wrong? Thanks again.

Read post #11 make sure you have 240V on the two breakers at the main panel where the red and black wire is connected to and the breakers are linked/tied at main panel. Then verify that black to the white for 120V and Red to the white for 120V at both end of the wires... means the main panel and the sub panel.

The Ground and Neutral is tied at the Main panel, but it is not tied at the Sub Panel (at garage) so you need to make sure a green or ground wire connector is connected or pulled seperately or the conduit is able to do ground if EMT... supposedly you needed to add a lighten ground connection also for the ground at subpanel. if you are keeping that panel, you needed to add a ground bar, that is not tied to the neutral at the sub panel.

 

[Norcal]

Move the breaker down so there is space for another THQP 1/2" wide breaker, & should be able to get 240V, then either get a filler plate or another breaker to fill the open space. GE is the only brand currently in production that will work that way.

 

[mike93lx]

OK, the wire from house to garage is 6/3 nm-b. It was in there when I moved in. Here is what I need. Want a 35' wire from house panel to garage for-120v outlets and a 230v breaker for garage. hat size and type wire I need. I will put all the exposed wires in conduit also. And you say add a ground panel and move the grn and grnd to it. The white wire is on the ground bar in house panel. Is that wrong? Thanks again.

You'll need to pull that NM and replace it with THWN or xhhw. What size is the conduit?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

OK, the wire from house to garage is 6/3 nm-b. It was in there when I moved in. Here is what I need. Want a 35' wire from house panel to garage for-120v outlets and a 230v breaker for garage. hat size and type wire I need. I will put all the exposed wires in conduit also. And you say add a ground panel and move the grn and grnd to it. The white wire is on the ground bar in house panel. Is that wrong? Thanks again.

looking at the pics you posted, looks like you have cordage NOT nm-b, since the black jacket is uniform circumference, not random like nm-b. also that paper filler gives it away as being cordage

either way cordage and NM-b is not allowed underground and cordage is not permitted to be used for permanent wiring.

also sounds like you have 2 feeds to the garage (dryer circuit and 6/3 circuit). unless this was done under 2020 code cycle, its not allowed.

I would rip both circuits out, run conduit, and either pull #6 THWN black red white with a #10 green ground or #2 AL MHF which will give you 90a

the subpanel needs an isolated neutral bar meaning not bonded to the ground bar or the enclosure.

also the 10-3 you used for the compressor is technically too small. you need #10 THWN in pipe or #8/2 NM-b...

 

[sparky 1971]

looking at the pics you posted, looks like you have cordage NOT nm-b, since the black jacket is uniform circumference, not random like nm-b. also that paper filler gives it away as being cordage

either way cordage and NM-b is not allowed underground and cordage is not permitted to be used for permanent wiring.

also sounds like you have 2 feeds to the garage (dryer circuit and 6/3 circuit). unless this was done under 2020 code cycle, its not allowed.

I would rip both circuits out, run conduit, and either pull #6 THWN black red white with a #10 green ground or #2 AL MHF which will give you 90a

the subpanel needs an isolated neutral bar meaning not bonded to the ground bar or the enclosure.

also the 10-3 you used for the compressor is technically too small. you need #10 THWN in pipe or #8/2 NM-b...

Now that I am home and able to see that mess on my desktop, those are my thoughts exactly. There comes a time when the best thing to do is start over. I really like the use of the 1/2" flex 90 for the cord entrance, might want to keep that just for nostalgia.

 

[scotty95]

No wire is underground. Comes out of the basement outside and then up and over in 1" conduit to the garage.

 

[mike93lx]

No wire is underground. Comes out of the basement outside and then up and over in 1" conduit to the garage.

Underground doesn't matter with NM. It isn't allowed outdoors

 

[sparky 1971]

No wire is underground. Comes out of the basement outside and then up and over in 1" conduit to the garage.

NM can't be in conduit outdoors. Period. It doesn't matter if it's above or underground. Assumptions were made that it was underground since it's detached.

 

[scotty95]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to find an electrician to handle this ordeal. Don't want to burn the house down, it's paid for.

 

[mike93lx]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to find an electrician to handle this ordeal. Don't want to burn the house down, it's paid for.

Smart move. This stuff isn't for everyone and knowing when to tap out is something many of us struggle with

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No wire is underground. Comes out of the basement outside and then up and over in 1" conduit to the garage.

regardless if its underground, and if its cordage, its not code permissive to use it for permanent wiring. also the fine strands of cordage make it difficult to get good connections on lugs rated for large stranded conductors....

either way it should be ripped out and replaced with the proper wiring.

since its overhead, you would need to use cable that has a messenger wire or make your own.... 1" conduit overhead is not proper especially if its 35' long

 

[scotty95]

The conduit run is only 8' long between house and garage. Going to find an electrician and have them do it right. Thanks again for the info. Merry christmas

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The conduit run is only 8' long between house and garage. Going to find an electrician and have them do it right. Thanks again for the info. Merry christmas

yeah its still not kosher but good idea on the getting an electrician

 

[Metal-Marc]

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to find an electrician to handle this ordeal. Don't want to burn the house down, it's paid for.

Good.

 

[scotty95]

Update 1-04-23. The electrician was out today and fixed me up. Put a ground rod in ground and ran ground to sub panel w/grd bar. Got the compressor working good. So i I had him fix some electrical things in basement also. Thanks for the help in the right direction.

 

[The Cobbler]

money well spent. cheers!