12pt Metric Sockets, useless?

[MikeF2316]

I generally grab a 12 point unless the fastener is damaged or really rusty. My record is hammering a 6 point 10 mm socket on what was a 13 mm exhaust flange nut.

 

[Ji m]

I keep a rail of 12 and 6 point sockets of metric and std in my main box.

I prefer the 6's, but sometimes the 12's are thinner,
and when you do finally run into a 12 point bolt you'll wish you had them.

Me,
if I accidentally ordered one single 12 point to replace a missing 6pt I would either:

1)stick the 12pt in the 6pts spot and live with it

2)order a 6pt, and tuck the 12pt somewhere for the day I need it

3)if OCD makes #1 or #2 impossible,
order the 6pt and give away, throw out, or smash the 12pt so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

 

[pl_silverado]

I keep a 3/8 & 1/2 Metric set of 12 points on hand. Most ARP fasteners, whether it’s head studs/bolts or their smaller accessory bolts are 12 pt.

 

[Lotek]

I keep a rail of 12 and 6 point sockets of metric and std in my main box.

I prefer the 6's, but sometimes the 12's are thinner,
and when you do finally run into a 12 point bolt you'll wish you had them.

Me,
if I accidentally ordered one single 12 point to replace a missing 6pt I would either:

1)stick the 12pt in the 6pts spot and live with it

2)order a 6pt, and tuck the 12pt somewhere for the day I need it

3)if OCD makes #1 or #2 impossible,
order the 6pt and give away, throw out, or smash the 12pt so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

3a)buy the rest of the 12pt set, #shiny bits, because you can't have too many tools.

My theory is that 12pt bolts were invented back when engineers first realized that they could mess with mechanics and make their mark on the world just by changing some small part of the design of something. I call it peeing on the engineering tree, #It doesn't have to be better, just new and different. After the bean counters didn't object to their initial foray, they came up with such delights as torx, torx+, spline, etc...

 

[Ji m]

3a)buy the rest of the 12pt set, #shiny bits, because you can't have too many tools.

My theory is that 12pt bolts were invented back when engineers first realized that they could mess with mechanics and make their mark on the world just by changing some small part of the design of something. I call it peeing on the engineering tree, #It doesn't have to be better, just new and different. After the bean counters didn't object to their initial foray, they came up with such delights as torx, torx+, spline, etc...

I didn't want to overcomplicate my response,
but I agree

I was thinking of this as 2a:

after the tucked away 12pt becomes useful and necessary for some job,
buy the whole set of 12pts.

^which will still mean having one extra socket because buying the whole rack of 12 points is cheaper than purchasing the set minus one, one socket at a time

I await the next thread.

 

[Lotek]

I didn't want to overcomplicate my response,
but I agree

I was thinking of this as 2a:

after the tucked away 12pt becomes useful and necessary for some job,
buy the whole set of 12pts.

^which will still mean having one extra socket because buying the whole rack of 12 points is cheaper than purchasing the set minus one, one socket at a time

I await the next thread.

But if you buy them one at a time, it isn't like you are some sort of tool polisher that has to have the complete set, it just ends up that way. #rationalization. What I have done and recommend to the kids in the shop is buy the sockets I need outside of a basic set, then if the compulsion overwhelms you at a later date, all you are buying is a 16mm and 25mm impact sockets to fill the holes.

 

[lilredex]

My everyday sockets are all 6 PT. (SAE and Metric). I'd really have to look around for a 12 PT. in my collection, but there are a few, mainly used on square heads, etc.

 

[nelstomlinson]

In the real world, 12 point sockets and wrenches have worked well for years, and continue to do so.

The flank drive sockets work in twelve point. For the old on-the-corner engagement sockets, six point was noticably less likely to do damage. Twelve point has worked well for years because manufacturers have made nothing but flank drive since Snap On's original patent expired.

``Six point is stronger'' used to be very real, but you children can't remember back that far.

 

[bob15]

The flank drive sockets work in twelve point. For the old on-the-corner engagement sockets, six point was noticably less likely to do damage. Twelve point has worked well for years because manufacturers have made nothing but flank drive since Snap On & Bonney's original patents expired.

``Six point is stronger'' used to be very real, but you children can't remember back that far.

Fixed it for you

 

[theoldwizard1]

I do not own ANY 12 point sockets. Someday I will have to buy 1 for a specific project.

 

[M6erfan]

I do not own ANY 12 point sockets. Someday I will have to buy 1 for a specific project.

^^^My situation too. I'll wait 'till I need 'em...

 

[toolmutt]

In fact almost ALL combination wrenches are 12pt on the box end, so why are we concerned exactly??

If this question actually desires an answer it would have something to do with off-axis engagement increasing the chance of round off.

This is my answer in the ratchet/socket versus wrench threads.

 

[PR1Gneon]

Use 6-point socket for a 6-point fastener and a 12-point socket for a 12-point fastener.



https://www.tekton.com/which-is-better-in-sockets-and-wrenches-6-point-vs-12-point

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

 

[CR888]

I have a combination of 6/12pt chrome sockets in the first 3 drive sizes. I don't buy 6pts are stronger or better as such. The new flank drive 12pts seem to engage fasteners further away from the points than a 6pt. It the tolerance was tighter on sockets maybe this would change but fit a 6pt over a fastener in your hand and look to see where it engages, times along with tool design have changed, the old 6pt rule has not kept up with reality.

 

[plinker]

I have a combination of 6/12pt chrome sockets in the first 3 drive sizes. I don't buy 6pts are stronger or better as such. The new flank drive 12pts seem to engage fasteners further away from the points than a 6pt. It the tolerance was tighter on sockets maybe this would change but fit a 6pt over a fastener in your hand and look to see where it engages, times along with tool design have changed, the old 6pt rule has not kept up with reality.

I tend to agree about socket strength 6 vs 12 pt, either will break when the applied torque is too much. 12pts being a thinner walled can get into places better if it's a tight fit.

One issue I've had with 12pt is the "points" tend to wear, which can make the socket to fastener fit looser. Not a real problem except on corroded fasteners. Then there are times where a 6pt wont work, a Matco non-slip will (6pt spline, sort of). Then there are times where you have to use a turbo socket/bolt out extractor or just cut the head off and extract the rest. Having to pound a 6pt or other socket on a bolt that used to be a different size is also thing that has been done.

Improper engagement of the socket on the fastener is likely contributes to rounded fasteners about as much as rust. If a person is working on new stuff or non-corroded fasteners, the 6pt vs 12pt debate is mostly moot as the fit should be good with a quality socket. Fastener quality may vary as well, contributing to the issue.

Short answer is buy them all and use what works best for the task at hand

 

[Gmonkee]

I only have about 20 sockets at work. 8-22mm no skip in mostly Knova 6 pt. The rest are whatever brand whatever pt count I found first. A good portion of those 12 pt.

Frankly I grab the proper size and go not caring nor thinking about it. The shop halfer set is worse mix and there both of us grab and go all the same.

Just like the old days when most kits were 12 pt. It just works. Don't have to over think it.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I have 12 point metric socket sets in four drive sizes. All were bought for a purpose; it depends on what You work on.

 

[VinceG]

I am a Class 8 truck tech and use 12pt metric a lot.
I also have used them as extractors for damaged Lug nuts on cars and other rounded bolts.
Just grab a Craftsman 12pt that is a little smaller than the rounded bolt head or nut beat it on with a hammer grab your favorite ratchet and remove.

 

[CR888]

Yes, I agree 12pts will wear more easily if reefing on a fastener but in those instances an impact is a far better tool. I like the ease of fitting the socket on a fastener with a 12pt. I have both & think its an iasue you should not take sides on, get both. But I notice most 1/4" sets sold these days are 6pt & 'most' 3/8"/1/2" sets with ratchets, extensions etc are now 12pt. Impacts are a different story. If I'm rounding fasteners its usually not due to the style of socket, as mentioned cheap fasteners are a big culprit. And at that point I'd use Lok-on™ sockets or extractor sockets or other means to deal with it. I think the old tech's rightfully have an opinion on the subject who bought their tools in a pre flank drive era.

 

[reader2580]

Detroit Diesel series 60 uses metric 12 points

I had to remove the oil cooler on my Series 60 and I used a 3/8” 12 point socket. Maybe it was really metric?

 

[M*A*S*H]

Jeeps use 12 points on the front wheel bearings, and I'm fairly certain I used one on an F-150 pinion flange a while back.

Every time I have to go into a D35 I curse a bit looking for where that damn 8mm 12 point went... until I remember I zip tied it to a spare shaft.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Being most respondents here are from the USA; the variety of answers comes as no shock.

We import machines and ideas from every corner of the globe, and the variety of fasteners are part of the deal. Do other countries think of the USA as the world oddball with their fractional bolt sizes? For the past four decades, many USA industries have been converting to metric. More 12 point fasteners appear to have followed in the same suit. The USA is known as the melting pot of nations; and our machinery and tools follow in the same suit.

 

[Ign]

I've said it before but I have two vertical mills and keep a set of fractional ratcheting wrenches at each machine for set up and tear down. Yes, virtually everything the user will directly interface with at a mill (even a new import) is fractional. T-slots are still 5/8 and t-slot bolts are tapped 1/2-13. Your drawbar is 7/16-20 but takes 3/4" on top. 1-2-3's are tapped 3/8-16 and 2-4-6's tapped 5/8-11.

Anyway at one mill I have flex head GW 12pt. The other mill has flex head Tekton 6pt. I will say the difference in ease of initially engaging the fastener w 12pt is NOTICEABLE. And when you're setting up or tearing down you want EFFICIENCY. You're rarely getting paid well for setups - the money - if any - is in making chips. Everything else is just a formality.

 

[Al Borland]

Strike 1 - Metric
Strike 2 - 12 point
But a necessary evil sometimes.