16 Foot Stick-Built Wall Height?

[sbosecker]

I know there are no stupid questions but I am also aware that there are a lot of inquisitive idiots. Please be gentle when answering my question.

I'm planning to build a 46' x 60' shed with 16' tall walls. Has anyone built a shed with 16 foot tall stick-built walls?

Scott

 

[RVDan]

That's a big shed, I would call it a shop or garage.

I've never built one but it's not uncommon.

 

[slowzuki]

Yes. Farm workshops are up to 16, 18, 20 feet now to fit combines in with the extensions up. They have to pick pole or stick framed too.

 

[jkwilson]

Conventional stud construction in walls taller than 10ft is beyond most contractor's knowledge even if you use 2X6 studs. Lateral bracing is required at 90 degrees to the wall plane. The only way you'd want to consider that is if you have an engineer heavily involved in the plans.

This is an easy build for pole construction though, and you can easily frame stud walls between the poles if you want conventional walls.

 

[1grnlwn]

I think it depends on the finish you want on the inside. I wonder if pole config is stronger or just cheaper. Or maybe just more bang for the buck. I went with pole building. But finished 1/2 with studs on inside. But it will be heated and the stick walls allowed 8" of insulation. 16' 2x4s are expensive. Just in-congruent ramblings.

 

[Majordisorder]

Scott, on this shop the plate height was 19'-6" above the finished slab. The framed portion of the walls used studs that were 205", taken from 20' - 2x6. All the cut-offs were used as blocking. That being said, half of the building was two stories so this was not four walls of 19'- 6" height. The top plate tied in with the two story half of the building. This ended up getting an 8x20 storage loft across the back which further added to the stability. Having my own telescopic fork lift makes tall walls easy.

When you say "shed", do you mean open walls? I would think solid sheathing would be a given on tall framed walls and if you could incorporate some interior loft, wing walls or buttresses, it wold add to the stability of your long walls. I'm just a framer, not an engineer.

 

[rburke65]

It is done often, but that is, as said, a pretty good sized "shed". I had built for me a 32 x56' with 13' walls, 2x6" at 16" on canter. Good luck!

 

[Mattlt]

Just asking. Is it possible to build two 8' walls, one on top of the other? Or are there issues properly fastening them together?

It's certainly nothing new; think of how many older homes were built with balloon framing. Granted, a house had the upper floors to prevent the walls from bowing out, unlike a shed.

I know of one building in my area that was stick-built this tall. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about how it was constructed. I drove by it going to work everyday and thought "wow, that's a tall building for stick-built" I do remember there being some kind of "line" about half way up the sidewall. Not sure if it was a top plate/bottom plate (two walls), some kind of lateral bracing, or maybe even a fire stop. It's still standing 15-20 years later, so they must have done it right!

 

[rsanter]

Just asking. Is it possible to build two 8' walls, one on top of the other? Or are there issues properly fastening them together?

It's certainly nothing new; think of how many older homes were built with balloon framing. Granted, a house had the upper floors to prevent the walls from bowing out, unlike a shed.

I know of one building in my area that was stick-built this tall. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about how it was constructed. I drove by it going to work everyday and thought "wow, that's a tall building for stick-built" I do remember there being some kind of "line" about half way up the sidewall. Not sure if it was a top plate/bottom plate (two walls), some kind of lateral bracing, or maybe even a fire stop. It's still standing 15-20 years later, so they must have done it right!

You cannot just build two 8ft walls one on top,of another as that creates a hinge point. You can however build,it like a pole barn and then build the wall sections to go between the posts

Bob

 

[sbosecker]

Majordisorder,

Thank you for your useful post.

I know that a pole building or metal building could easily do what I've described but, as I thought about it, I realized what a structural problem a tall stick-built structure might be. Hence the question as to if anyone had done it.

I was chuckling when you mentioned "buttresses" in your post. When I started thinking about the "tall wall" problem, I thought of medieval European cathedrals with their flying buttresses.

To help visualize what I have am doing, a floor-plan of my project follows this post.

Again, the building is 46' x 60' with 16' high walls. The interior 30' x 30' space will have a conventional height ceiling.

Best regards,

Scott

Scott, on this shop the plate height was 19'-6" above the finished slab. The framed portion of the walls used studs that were 205", taken from 20' - 2x6. All the cut-offs were used as blocking. That being said, half of the building was two stories so this was not four walls of 19'- 6" height. The top plate tied in with the two story half of the building. This ended up getting an 8x20 storage loft across the back which further added to the stability. Having my own telescopic fork lift makes tall walls easy.

When you say "shed", do you mean open walls? I would think solid sheathing would be a given on tall framed walls and if you could incorporate some interior loft, wing walls or buttresses, it wold add to the stability of your long walls. I'm just a framer, not an engineer.

 

[volleyball]

Wow, a 5 bay "shed". Makes my 12 x 14 shed look puny
I am pretty sure you won't be able to get structurally secure building using sticks.
Why did you want to use 2x's?
You could as cladding on a pole frame structure though.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

My build is 32x48 with 16' (almost) walls completely unsupported on the inside. Using 2x6 construction I had to install blocking every 4' and use 5/8" plywood sheathing on the outside. I was told 48' was the limit for a shear wall this high. Going bigger would have required a different design or interior structure to brace against bowing. I will be adding plywood to the interior at a later date so that will help as well.

 

[sbosecker]

Volleyball,

I don't necessarily want to use 2x's...

I was wondering if anyone had done it.

It would be an option to consider & discuss prior to building.

Best regards,

Scott

Why did you want to use 2x's?

 

[sbosecker]

Chilliwack Murray,

What does " blocking every 4' " mean?

Best regards,

Scott

My build is 32x48 with 16' (almost) walls completely unsupported on the inside. Using 2x6 construction I had to install blocking every 4' and use 5/8" plywood sheathing on the outside. I was told 48' was the limit for a shear wall this high. Going bigger would have required a different design or interior structure to brace against bowing. I will be adding plywood to the interior at a later date so that will help as well.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Maybe there are other names, that is what the engineer and inspector called it.


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[kbs2244]

Looking at your floor plan I would recommend post construction with stick built panels between the posts.
I think it would be the best combination of cost, strength, and ease of construction.

I think the term "blocking" came from the balloon construction days.
They learned the hard way that the walls needed something to "block" the chimney like voids in the wall in case of a fire.

They do add a lot of structural stiffness however.
That is why they are used between floor joists.

 

[MScott]

Why not build it with a 4 foot concrete (poured or block) step wall, then stick frame the top? It would certainly require building the walls in sections and probably require some help lifting the sections up to set on the top of the step wall, but the top part would only require 12' studs (actually less when you deduct the bottom and top plates. I have seen 12 foot walls built this way.

 

[McKay]

We put 17' walls on top of my foundation. Had to use select structural 2x6 studs on 12" center with doubling up every 4' but it worked fine.

 

[sbosecker]

Chilliwack Murray,

Ahhh...

This is what I have in my basement and I think it serves the same structural purpose as blocking. Framing crew runs a circular saw across the stud half way up the wall. This "T" shaped strap (don't know the technical name for it and I didn't dare do a Google search for "stud stiffener") dramatically increases the column load capacity of the wall.

I am a bit surprised there was a requirement for both blocking and exterior sheathing. I would think sufficient stiffening would be accomplished with one or the other, with the exterior sheathing probably doing a better job than the blocking.

Best regards,

Scott

Maybe there are other names, that is what the engineer and inspector called it.


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[sbosecker]

McKay,

Thanks!

It was noted earlier in this thread that the length of the wall - coupled with the wall height - might be a limitation. May I ask what the dimensions of the footprint of your building are? Open space inside or internal walls?

Best regards,

Scott

We put 17' walls on top of my foundation. Had to use select structural 2x6 studs on 12" center with doubling up every 4' but it worked fine.

 

[sbosecker]

MScott,

There are certainly work-arounds but, for the moment, I'm just trying to determine what the limitations of stick-built height are.

Best regards,

Scott

Why not build it with a 4 foot concrete (poured or block) step wall, then stick frame the top? It would certainly require building the walls in sections and probably require some help lifting the sections up to set on the top of the step wall, but the top part would only require 12' studs (actually less when you deduct the bottom and top plates. I have seen 12 foot walls built this way.

 

[pantera1]

Here is a link to wall height in MN. There should be something like this in your state.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=1309.0602&format=pdf

Good luck!

 

[theoldwizard1]

My build is 32x48 with 16' (almost) walls completely unsupported on the inside. Using 2x6 construction I had to install blocking every 4' and use 5/8" plywood sheathing on the outside..

Was there any requirement for staggering the exterior sheathing (one installed from the top, the next installed from the bottom) ? It would be easy with the extra blocking and it would help eliminate a potential "hinge point".

Also, 5/8" is a pretty big upgrade from the more common 7/16' - 1/2" sheathing.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Yes, all sheathing has to be staggered joint on any wall here, regardless of size. Same with roof sheathing.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Maybe there are other names, that is what the engineer and inspector called it.

It was originally called "fire blocking" as it prevented fire from running up the "chimney" created by the 2 studs.

Blocking add some stiffness against the wall racking (the top plate moving for side to side in the same plane as the bottom plate) because there are more attachment points (nails) for the sheathing.

Straight on wind is held back width (by4 or by6) of the stud.

This why plans have to be reviewed and approved by structural engineers !

 

[sbosecker]

Pantera1,

There seem to be some pages missing... the information ends with a roof span of 34 feet and my plans are for about 46 feet.

Ha!

Thanks for that link. I'll see if the great state of Georgia has anything similar online.

Best regards,

Scott

Here is a link to wall height in MN. There should be something like this in your state.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/rules/?id=1309.0602&format=pdf

Good luck!

 

[volleyball]

Blocking also transfer load to the adjoining studs. Therefore a stronger wall.

 

[Jim Riseborough]

Not related, but might want to put that bathroom towards a corner, incase you want to open up your 'shed' to fit a combine or 777 into it.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Blocking also transfer load to the adjoining studs. Therefore a stronger wall.

What "load" are you referring to ?

The 2 significant loads are from the roof/ceiling resting of the top plate and flat against the sheathing from head on wind. Wind load will be fairly equal, stud to stud and the way blocking is connected (nailed) to the studs will only do a good job of transferring a load applied to the edge of a wall.

The blocking will help a lot in spread the wind load applied to the sheathing.

 

[volleyball]

What "load" are you referring to ?

The 2 significant loads are from the roof/ceiling resting of the top plate and flat against the sheathing from head on wind. Wind load will be fairly equal, stud to stud and the way blocking is connected (nailed) to the studs will only do a good job of transferring a load applied to the edge of a wall.

The blocking will help a lot in spread the wind load applied to the sheathing.

You must not be in an area where flying things hit buildings. Not a distributed load.

 

[sbosecker]

Jim,

Neither of those items would fit through the door. Ha!

I don't currently do any farming so a combine probably isn't needed. My employer provides me with an airplane so I don't need a 777 either. Ha!

Best regards,

Scott

Sunrise over the Amazon - Heading towards Rio de Janeiro.

Not related, but might want to put that bathroom towards a corner, incase you want to open up your 'shed' to fit a combine or 777 into it.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

I worked with a guy who proved that most anything will fit through the door. Sometimes you just can't close it anymore.


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[McKay]

McKay,

Thanks!

It was noted earlier in this thread that the length of the wall - coupled with the wall height - might be a limitation. May I ask what the dimensions of the footprint of your building are? Open space inside or internal walls?

Best regards,

Scott

Ya my main floor footprint is just over 7000 from memory last time I figured. Also I bricked 100% of my exterior. From memory if I would have done stucco I could have gotten away with structural studs at 16" OC. Brick put it over the top and I also had to put 18" steel moment frames around 6 of the garage doors.

 

[rburke65]

You might also want to look into the requirements from your local building department to see what they might have today about your build. They can be very helpful as well as a pain, but it helps if you are 'up front' with they from the start.

 

[MScott]

MScott,

There are certainly work-arounds but, for the moment, I'm just trying to determine what the limitations of stick-built height are.

Best regards,

Scott

Hi Scott (good name BTW):
One of the limitations of building a stick-built is getting dimensional lumber long enough for a wall of that height. I know you can use 16' 2x lumber but it is harder to access and is more expensive. I was just trying to show a way of using more commonly available 12' pcs. Also, the 4' step wall also means you can wash your vehicles without worrying about getting the walls damp.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

If you are buying from a lumber yard they should be charging by the board foot and there shouldn't be any extra cost for anything up to at least 20'. Most of my 2x6 was 16' but there were a number of 20' pieces as well.

If you are buying the materials yourself even with a contractor, talk to the local lumberyard - but shop around for the right one. Around here they ranged for less than big box to considerably more. On average the better ones are close on most items (usually a little more on the flyer stuff) but way cheaper on lumber and especially fasteners. If you set up an account with them, even if you pay per order with your credit card the one I used took at least 20% off everything and sometimes more which made them considerably less that the big box on nearly everything.


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[Majordisorder]

Scott, your plan looks good. If you include a beam from the corner of the bathroom across to the outside wall it could probably be engineered. The beam might be useful as well.

 

[Avi8or]

Scott,
I'm surprised PTC is allowing you to build a "shed" this size! PTC is strict on everything. However, looking forward to the updates and build pics.

 

[sbosecker]

Avi8or,

Ha! Me to...

This should make you chuckle though... I stopped by the City Building Department last winter and asked about building a "shed" this size and their immediate response was, "Don't call it a shed."

Apparently a "shed" has to be located farther from the street than the house. However, they indicated that so long as a "building", "structure" or whatever met the setbacks, I was OK.

I'm going to walk in a sketch of my site plan soon and see if they are still OK with this whole deal. No doubt at some point PTC will stiff-arm something. I just don't know what it is going to be yet.

Best regards,

Scott

Scott,
I'm surprised PTC is allowing you to build a "shed" this size! PTC is strict on everything. However, looking forward to the updates and build pics.

 

[sbosecker]

Chilliwack Murray,

Thanks for the very useful information!

Best regards,

Scott

If you are buying from a lumber yard they should be charging by the board foot and there shouldn't be any extra cost for anything up to at least 20'. Most of my 2x6 was 16' but there were a number of 20' pieces as well.

If you are buying the materials yourself even with a contractor, talk to the local lumberyard - but shop around for the right one. Around here they ranged for less than big box to considerably more. On average the better ones are close on most items (usually a little more on the flyer stuff) but way cheaper on lumber and especially fasteners. If you set up an account with them, even if you pay per order with your credit card the one I used took at least 20% off everything and sometimes more which made them considerably less that the big box on nearly everything.


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