1921 Craftsman Garage

[murphy9]

1921 Craftsman Garage
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We bought our house a couple years ago and I have just recently been kicking the idea around of what to do with the old garage and backyard. The garage has a lot of charm and really gives the house some extra character. The problem is that it was built in 1921, with the house, and has fallen into a state of disrepair.

I have been checking out a lot of other people's project on this site- looking for inspiration, ideas, and trying to make up for my complete lack of experience. I was hoping that to get some feedback on this garage and hopefully decide on a plan of action.

Background:
The garage is 462 sq ft, appears to be built on a slab, has a roof that slopes to the rear, and has two stalls. The garage is in the back corner of our backyard and is accessed by a very narrow (7-7.5ft) driveway bordering the house. One side of the driveway is along the property line where there is a 2.5-3ft concrete retaining wall. We do not use the garage as a garage because of the garage's condition, the narrow driveway, and the fact that the retaining wall leans into the driveway at places. A small to mid-size car could be backed down the driveway but a larger suv or truck would not make it.

Another big consideration in this overall project is regrading the backyard away from the house. We have had a few water issues that we would like to address before they become a problem.

Options and potential plans:
1. Knock down the entire garage, jack hammer out most of the slab, and rebuild a shed (modeled after the old garage) on top of the old slab. This would give us the greatest amount of yard back but still allow for a building to store bbq, lawn equipment, etc.

2. Knock down the more central stall and make the garage a single car garage. This would require a complete replacement of the roof, repair of rotten sill plates and studs, and adding a new exterior wall to replace the current wall that separates the two stalls. This keeps the charm of the old building and makes it possible to have future automotive/motorcycle projects!!! It probably is also the most dangerous option- I'm afraid that once I try to take down the one stall the other half of the garage will come crashing down.

3. Keep the garage as it is and repair/replace damaged roof, studs, sill plates, etc. This doesn't give us much room to fix the grading problem.

4. Knock down old garage and rebuild new one. This isn't really an option (way to much $$$ for us at this point) but didn't want people to think I didn't consider it.

So there you have it--any advice or lessons learned will be much appreciated. I will add more pics as I figure this out to show the damage, decay, and lay of the land. My overall goal is to go with the smartest financial decision--we hope to have this house for another 5 or so years (Its a small 2 br/1 bath starter home) and ultimately don't want to put to much money in where we will never be able to get it back. However, I love these kind of projects and have no problem putting the time and labor in to get things done myself.

 

[murphy9]

Well first post didn't go as planned--I wanted the pictures to be on the page with the text.

Here are some exterior roof pics--the whole roof was covered in debris which I swept off last fall. After looking at the rafters more closely this spring I am thankful I didn't fall through and break my neck

I was trying to convey how bowed the roof is but this pic doesn't really portray it well

pic's of rot at rear of roof:

 

[-Brent-]

It is a charming looking building. Not seeing any images that show the damaged areas I'd say working with what you have may be the least expensive, as well as the least time and energy consuming. It certainly looks repairable. It's a simple structure so you could probably handle most tasks with the guidance of a book or Google or the like. However, this makes your grading wants more difficult. If you're only going to be there 5 years, is this something really worth getting into? It's been that way a long time.

Keeping the house for only 5-or-so more years. I'm not sure what would be the best investment, either fixing up the building or replacing it with a smaller shed-like structure to gain some yard?

Also, maybe trimming the trees could help the yard feel more spacious and cut down on the moisture that's effected the rear of the garage.

 

[murphy9]

General interior pics:
1 st stall

Interior Door between stalls:

Stall #2:

 

[-Brent-]

Looking at the damage pics posted in the second post, if it were my place, I wouldn't tear it down. It definitely is able to be fixed.

Do you have any interior shots, say something looking at the ceiling joists? A couple of the sill issues, too?

Edit: I should stop posting until you're done!

 

[murphy9]

Rot concerns
I decided to rip back some of the vines, leaves, debris that accumulated on and along the outside of the building to get some pics.

I also ripped out the lower part of the tongue and groove on the interior to check the damage.
stall 2 back wall

stall 1 back wall

stall 1 front corner:

interior shots of the roof (looks more like a quilt):

The back wall of stall #1 has some issues. The previous pics show the lower sill plate is missing or completely waterlogged. The top plate of the wall is sagging and soft also.

The last 2 ft of all of the rafters have seen water. Some are very soft and were sistered by previous owner.


Just to clarify- I don't think I absolutely "need" to even mess with this project. I just see it as an opportunity to learn and maybe add some value to the house. But I do need to have something to work on to occupy my off time--I can't sit still and I don't have any cool cars, jeeps, motorcycle type projects yet.

 

[-Brent-]

Thanks for those pictures. That tells the story better, for sure. I think this is going to be a great post. There's likely to be a good amount of info gained when others chime in.

If it were me, I'd buy the lumber and repair it. Yes, some of it is tedious work but I could see that building being pretty versitile.

I don't see where regrading would help, though. Perhaps some "footing drains" would help the building though and a gutter off the back edge of the roof.

 

[murphy9]

Thanks for those pictures. That tells the story better, for sure. I think this is going to be a great post. There's likely to be a good amount of info gained when others chime in.

If it were me, I'd buy the lumber and repair it. Yes, some of it is tedious work but I could see that building being pretty versitile.

I don't see where regrading would help, though. Perhaps some "footing drains" would help the building though and a gutter off the back edge of the roof.

"I don't see where regrading would help, though. Perhaps some "footing drains" would help the building though and a gutter off the back edge of the roof."

The re-grading is to help out with the house. Right now the yard slopes towards the back of the house and water comes in along the back wall. The backyard is already above the level of the back sidewalks and is generally "high" all around. I'm thinking to that to fix the problem and keep the garage as is I will have to get some one to haul some dirt away.

 

[red85]

With a little lumber and some time you could easily fix it up and use it as a very nice work space. If you leave it, it will continue to deteriorate. It's kind of a pay me now or pay me later situation. If you leave it, you'll end up getting dinged for disposal and you won't have a place to store your bbq etc. By fixing it now, your property will retain a bit more value when it's time to sell.

 

[Wingnut65]

There are good bones in that old place. Wood can be replaced or strengthened. Like Brent said, I'd try to keep it as well. It looks like your roof is the source of some of your problems. Possibly consider replacing all the roof framing and add a little more pitch to get better drainage.

There are many other's here that have saved old structures. One educational and inspirational thread is Bull's Old Barn.

BTW, Welcome to GJ, murphy. And gongrats on making the leap with your first post your own thread. Glad you joined us.

 

[loveall13]

My wife and I live in a really cool 1850’s colonial on a great lot. I would love to have an original building to restore. The previous owners didn’t do anything to save the original out buildings so they added a portable building when the original fell down.
If I were in your situation, I would jack up the walls replace the bottom plates with treated lumber. Next I would sister the studs in the bad portion of the walls. Then I would continue up to the roof. Finally I would fix the siding/trim and work my way through the inside.
Could the water problem be fixed by grading to the center of the lawn between the house and the garage and adding a catch basin and a tile to drain it to another location?
Jeremy

 

[Cougar67]

I hope you fix it. It's only original once. It would be very expensive to replicate the Craftsman charm. It looks like some jacking up and replacing of sills, some sistering of joists and some siding replacement. If there is a local lumber company they will often have replicated the siding that is typical in the area. In the city I used to live (Richmond, VA), if you tore down your old garage the city would not allow a new one to be built due to setback requirements. The old ones are "grandfathered" in to the zoning laws. I used to have a 1908 brick garage with a flat roof. It was the brick version of what you have - a bit of a mess. We sistered some roof joists and repalces the roof decking with 3/4" exterior plywood. No OSB. We also used the roll roofing. It was cheap but holds up well for a few years.

 

[murphy9]

It seems like people think saving the garage is the better option so far. The idea rolling through my head though is how useless the 2nd stall is to us. We really only need the one stall to house everything we have or will have. Knocking down that 2nd stall would really increase the actual size of our yard, but it would also make the yard feel huge because our neighbor to the rear has a huge yard. This is kind of my, and wife's, personal preference. I'm gonna try to reply to some comments but have not figured out how to quote a few lines and not a whole post---I just cut and pasted into italics.

If I were in your situation, I would jack up the walls replace the bottom plates with treated lumber. Next I would sister the studs in the bad portion of the walls. Then I would continue up to the roof.

1. If I jack up the walls to replace the sill plate should I do the sill plate first or the roof first? Jacking up the walls seems like it would be safer and more solid if a roof was above the walls. My concern is that I would cause the weak roof that is on the garage now to come falling down on my head if I start jacking the building up. Should I replace the roof first or should I try to jack the walls up after I tear off the old roof but before putting on the new roof? I checked out the hammerzone.com website to kind of review the process. I don't have any steel lalls and they look to be pretty pricey. I saw on someone else's thread here that they just bolted a 2x6 to the lower portion of the studs and were able to avoid using the lalls or big posts required to support the lifted section (instead using smaller blocks I think?).

2. When sistering the rotted studs, how high up a stud is safe to go? Some studs would have to be cut almost 2.5 ft up from the sill. Also, is it safe to sister a stud this high from the bottom and then sister the top 1 ft or so?--I will definitely need this along the back wall where both of the top plates are rotted, broken, and sagging

Could the water problem be fixed by grading to the center of the lawn between the house and the garage and adding a catch basin and a tile to drain it to another location?
Jeremy

This is definitely something I have been researching on the internet. I need to find a way to pull water away from the foundation of the house but it is difficult when you only have about 3 feet of yard along the side of the house and tiny front and back yards. Either way this is a problem I really need to address because it is preventing us from renovating a half bath in the basement.

In the city I used to live (Richmond, VA), if you tore down your old garage the city would not allow a new one to be built due to setback requirements. The old ones are "grandfathered" in to the zoning laws.

Same for us. If I were to tear this garage down one could never be built in the same location because of the current setback, firewall, etc. codes. Rebuilding a new garage would require it to be about smack in the middle of our tiny yard and look ridiculous. We are lucky enough though to have the whole no permits/plans thing for sheds under 8ft tall and under 200sq ft max.


Thanks for all the comments. The collective experience of this forum is much appreciated!!!

 

[Kevin54]

First off, if you tear it down are you permitted to build another in its' place? That right there may determine what you can or cannot do.

Seeing that you don't have a lot to work with, for starters you need a good foundation. You can brace up the existing garage cut off the bottom rotted joist and bottom plate, and set it on a new foundation. As far as the roof, tear it completely off, put up some new rafters, then cover the roof with metal. You could change the looks of the roof somewhat to gain some attic space by putting a saltbox style of roof on. You may have to reframe the front wall if you want to put standard size doors in. Or you may have to custom make doors that fit your existing opening if you want the carriage style door. Granted, the garage does add character to the house and I would want it to look close to what it does now to maintain that character.

 

[Mmfh]

Unless you want to deal with the city, permits and possibly not even being able to do what you want, I'd fix it. Maybe even use one stall and open up the other side to use as a outdoor patio BBQ area. Covered but open to the nice private little yard.

If you tear down city will probably make you build new one farther into the yard, thus loosing yard again.

A french drain might be the thing to do about your drainage problem, make sure all downspouts are taking the water away from the buildings, french drain will take care of the yard.

Whatever you decide to do following you through it would be great.

Good Luck!

Mm

 

[49stude2r6]

Looks like a pretty flat yard. Hard to tell from the pictures but looks like you could remove soil from the backyard and slope everything to the rear of the yard/the corner opposite the garage. Check out the derilict garage by user fergus to see how bad a building can be and still be saved also. I think Saving the place would be a great project. That said, Brent makes a good point about how long will you be in the place. 2 car garages would have a better resale to me, but maybe not everyone. I like a shed stall and an outdoor room stall/studio outdoor kitchen or whatever.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

Just to clarify- I don't think I absolutely "need" to even mess with this project....

Hmmm... I think you DO "absolutely need" to fix the rot damage. It's only going to get worse/become a bigger job up to the point of a total tear down and replacement...and that could become a real PITA.

I too think it has good "bones." I'd suggest you consider following the style of GJ member Nimrod's garage. His is truly unique and has SUCH a feel good, old timey vibe. Granted yours is smaller, but that doesn't mean you couldn't get some of the same out of the old wood, etc.

Here's a link (for those who might have never discovered his place) and a couple photos just to whet your whistle!

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3740

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5322

Photos:

 

[nickleone]

I second the thought of turning the other stall to a open covered area for BBQ etc.
It will open up the yard visually.
Nick

 

[-Brent-]

It seems like people think saving the garage is the better option so far. The idea rolling through my head though is how useless the 2nd stall is to us. We really only need the one stall to house everything we have or will have. Knocking down that 2nd stall would really increase the actual size of our yard, but it would also make the yard feel huge because our neighbor to the rear has a huge yard. This is kind of my, and wife's, personal preference. I'm gonna try to reply to some comments but have not figured out how to quote a few lines and not a whole post---I just cut and pasted into italics.

I was thinking about this yesterday evening... the left side of the building (stall one) would be good for storage and maybe a work bench. The other side might make a neat entertaining area. It could be finished so it was cabana-esque or something of the sort. Might be a nice place to have friends over and have a drink and socialize. And with the doors open it'd provide that open air feel but still be undercover from rain. It certainly could add to the area and then be closed off when not utilized.

 

[fergus]

You can fix that. Just sister all the studs and joists. I did...

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107111&highlight=derelict

 

[ckadams00]

+1 on everyone else's comments. I think it is a great old building and deserves to be saved. I also agree that if you try to rebuild you are likely going to run into ALL kinds of new restrictions. 'Fixing up' requires very little in the way of permits. Fix the wood, roof, siding as needed - it has a great look and matches the house and neighborhood. Geez it is already 90 years old - gilve the old girl some maintenance!

I think you will be happy if you keep her . . . I know if I was the next buyer I would really be appreciative.

 

[loveall13]

Murphy
Sometimes I believe carpentry terms are regional. Around here a piece of wood used to make a repair like in your roof pictures would be a scab. Sistering would be adding a piece of wood that run the full length of the piece you are nailing it too. So on your side walls I’d cut new studs to run full length from plate to plate. The reason I'd work from the bottom up is I'd not want to have the added weight of the new roofing materials sitting on the rotten plates.
Jeremy

 

[murphy9]

So I put in a call to the city building department to try and figure out what kind of repairs require permits. According to the city, I would need a permit to redo the rafters and roofing and if I were to convert to a one stall. I can do all of it on "one" permit though. This surprised me because I didn't think replacing rafters would require a permit--is this normal? The permit thing is kind of intimidating to me because it requires scaled drawings. I have no experience in this at all but I guess I can give it a shot because the drawings don't have to be stamped or reviewed by any contractors or engineers for the type of work I'm getting into.

Sistering would be adding a piece of wood that run the full length of the piece you are nailing it too. So on your side walls I’d cut new studs to run full length from plate to plate. The reason I'd work from the bottom up is I'd not want to have the added weight of the new roofing materials sitting on the rotten plates.
-- This is what I was thinking you were getting at but for some reason I had the whole "sistering" thing incorrect in my head. I think I had read a thread on a different forum where they just cut out the rotted portion of the stud and nailed a smaller new piece against it with some overlap.

 

[Red Leader]

That garage is awesome...just needs a little TLC. It is what we might call 'deferred maintenance'

I hope you can save the old girl. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this thread...it should turn into something really cool.

 

[murphy9]

Well I opened up the back wall of Stall#2 today and found just about every stud, top plate, sole plate, etc soft and wet. Every rafter on this side would need to be replaced also. It looks like knocking this stall down and keeping Stall #1 is going to be the option I go with. It will save me money on the repair end of things and also give us that extra yard space we are looking for.

Right now the struggle is trying to figure out this permit process. I need to draw up plans for the garage as a single stall, draw a plot plan, and possibly draw plans of the existing structure (not positive on this one). Anyone have a ball park estimate what this might cost to have done by a pro? The building plans take me time but are not that bad because I can just walk out back and measure everything. My big struggle is the plot plans--I am wondering if it would be a fair use of my cash to get a surveyor to do it?

 

[fergus]

For the plot plans, I would get down to the county assessors office and get a copy of the plot map...aka plat map for your parcel. I'm a former real estate appraiser...that's what we used. Cost should be minimal. You could also call a local real estate appraiser and ask them to get you a map - they typically have online access and could just pull up an electronic copy and email it to you.

If you live in a neighborhood, and the curb is original, the lot line markers might still be out there. Use that as your starting point and measure from there. Get one of those 100' reel tape measures. Lay it all out on paper (graph paper might be helpful) and then figure out your setbacks based on the boundaries you just measured.

 

[murphy9]

Update:

Between my brother-in-law graciously lending me his truck and my chiminea working a few 12 hour days here is the current state of things.

Since I tore down the second stall we have been really happy with how much bigger our yard feels. Also, I am real happy with the budget. To date I have spent about $110 dollars on the project- $80 to dump the construction debris ($40 per pick-up truck load), $20 in gas for the truck, and about $10 for sawzall blades.

I am now trying to figure out how I am going to save the remaining stall. After inspecting the demolished side I found that the walls were just set on about a 3 course layer of brick. The concrete slab was poured inside the building after it was already built. My initial plan was to jack up the walls, cut off the studs, put down a layer of block, sister-in on any weak studs, and reset the building over the block with a new pressure-treated bottom plate anchored into the block and slab. This would prevent any future rot from water and rain back-splash. However, after seeing the flimsy brick supporting the current bottom plates I am unsure how to attack this. I could just replace the bottom plate with pressure-treated, sister-in studs, and stretch out the life of the building a few more years- I know that this would inevitably suffer from the same water damage though. Any ideas???

Here is a pic of the brick "foundation" under the walls:

 

[Mavawreck]

Looks like a great project, I love older garages.

 

[FJ 432]

I second the thought of turning the other stall to a open covered area for BBQ etc.
It will open up the yard visually.
Nick

I think this is a good idea now that you've torn down stall #2. Couldn't you carry the roof over 5-6 feet with new lumber and use supportive/structural posts to help carry the weight of the roof? This way your newly uncovered old wall is no longer a load bearing wall. Once that side of the garage is supported you can shore up the bricks...or not.

 

[fergus]

I had a crumbling/wayward sill plate too. And rotten studs from water damage as well.

What I did was:
1. Reinforce the ceiling joists/roof.
2. Then I nailed in some studs/temporary wall to the joists and rafters a few feet from the wall.
3. Then I used a floor jack to slowly jack up the temporary wall/roof. I just shimmed it as I went along...jack the front up half an inch,shim 1/2" (little square shims made from plywood/osb worked great), jack the middle 1/2", shim, jack up the back,etc.
4. Once you've got a little daylight on the wall in question, tear the sill out, cut the studs off above the rotten portion, pour new footer, sister the studs, install new sill then drop it all down.

Sounds easy right?

 

[murphy9]

Update:

I built a temporary stud wall to support to roof, jacked up the stud wall to lift/level the roof, and tore down the rotted rear wall.

Overall:

I nailed an old 2x8 rafter (from the side of the garage I tore down) to the stud wall. I used a car jack sitting on cement blocks to lift the wall from using the 2x8:

I used some metal brackets to tie the top of the top wall to the rafters to prevent the wall from shifting.

Pic of the "footer" underneath the old rear wall. Its about 2 inches of concrete that had severely settled on the rear edge.

Not sure how well you can see it in this picture but the building is about a foot away from a very old and very leaning concrete retaining wall.

 

[murphy9]

pictures fixed

 

[fergus]

Sweet! You're making some progress.

 

[55cadillacking]

Your garage reminds me so much of my Grandparent's. I have enjoyed the progress photos thus far, and will similarly enjoy watching your continued progress. You are doing an admirable job!

 

[HSpencer]

The older homes really have character. If buildings could talk, we could all love to hear their stories. Saving what you can is exactly the right thing to do.
Good Luck

 

[CNGsaves]

Any plans to jack the whole thing up and put row of concrete blocks underneath sill plate to extend the life on that garage??

 

[fergus]

Any more progress?

 

[murphy9]

No updates yet- every day I'm off it has been raining real bad or I had other obligations.

Next step is digging under the rear wall location and pouring a new footer.

Ideally I'd like to add a row of blocks underneath all of the walls but I'm not sure I have the now how to pull it off yet. I'm sort of taking it one wall at a time.