1929 Mossberg Set Professional edition

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's a composite and an excerpt I made from a long skinny ad in the 1929 Shapleigh catalog detailing the contents. Love the little note at the bottom - "The Box Cannot Be Purchased Separately". I bet they had lots of queries.

BTW, not that I would sniff at the red enamel, but the OD is awesome. Same color as my box at the top of this thread.

 

[four.cycle]

It is a very interesting design. Love the "flat top" look.

I'd guess there's probably more documentation in other issues of "Automobile Trade Journal" editions (and other trade journals) but I never did get past 1898.

 

[MR.X]

Thanks! That was fast......well there's the "made for" explanation. The set was by order...the one I got had just about all options, 2 different speeders , 2 sizes of T-wrenches, a sliding T, open gear ratchet, 8 pt and hex sockets, spark plug sockets, missing the universal.....maybe something else....I only had it long enough to wipe it down and transfer it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I found an interesting Mossberg socket at the flea yesterday.



With its shape and its black rust-proof finish, it may look like a typical Mossberg socket, and when I first spotted it, I thought for sure it was, but it's not. The first clue was the weight of it in my hand. It's heavy. The second clue was the sizing: 29/64"! WTF? (As you guys know, all the early pressed steel sockets were sized in 32/nds.) Where have I seen that before?



The third clue was the construction. That is not a male drive tang. It's an opening for a 1/2-inch male drive plug. The holes are for detent balls on drive plugs. And it's not pressed steel. It's solid steel that has been machined, and weirdly, it's literally machined around a nut - which probably acted as a guide for a hexagonal mandrel!



It's from their "Heavy-Duty" era.

I'm putting it here because we don't have a more appropriate thread.

It's a 'Tweener. What I mean by that is it was produced between what I will call their 'heyday era' of pressed steel sockets (1908 to 1918) and their 'last gasp era' (1925-1929), as they desperately tried to match Walden, Blackhawk, and Snap-on with hot-forged, cold-broached "real" sockets (such as those in the set that is the subject of this thread), before they joined with APCO and pretty much abandoned detachable sockets altogether. (Ironically, they made a killing with the US Government during WWII making special 1/2-inch drive handles - extensions, extensions with rotating grips, and L handles, at a time when they were NOT even making their own 1/2-inch drive tools and sets.)

I could've tacked it onto one of the two threads (early, and later with research) we have for pressed-steel socket sets, but those threads get plenty of their own traffic, and doing it here, on a thread with examples of the later offerings makes a little more sense in terms of transition.

Here are some references...

 

[Private Lugnutz]

By the way, these are the same exact sockets they pinned on speeders and other handles, such as this set of Tee handles I have shown previously. That's where I had seen one before.



Here is a shot showing an evolution of Mossberg socketry. (Note they did make similar sockets branded "Ever-Wear" that would come between the second and third. I don't have any of those.)



Lastly, be forewarned that the AA section on these sockets, linked here, is erroneous! They say that have a No. 45 set, but I suspect they are misreading the sizes or the 1919 catalog or both when they say the range was limited to a niche-y 7/8" to 1-1/2". I am also not sure why they played up the "Indestructible" adjective as if it were a brand name. They are referred to as "all steel" (as opposed to pressed steel) and "indestructible" (as opposed to the notorious splitting) in advertising between 1919 and 1922, but the 1920 catalog clearly labels them "Heavy-Duty."

 

[four.cycle]

^ what year range on those?
the only "heavy duty" I'm finding in my Mossberg folder is a 1920 page showing T-handles like your examples above.

 

[Old Radar]

Lugz--
I'm over two years late to the game, but your recent post here brought this thread back to my attention. After what must have been a frantic garage clean-up for some forgotten reason, during which several items got "shelved," this thread and my Mossberg 82 set, were "out of sight and out of mind." If all goes well, I'll spend tomorrow cleaning up my set and post it here. In the mean time, here is a re-posting of my Feb 2022 Garage Sale find:

The second sale didn't have much I was interested in and when I saw this I forgot about whatever that might have been...

They had it marked as $50 for "the set." Looking inside, about a third of the things in there were not Mossberg. I went to find the guy in charge and explained I was interested in the set but not all of it. He sent one of his guys to see what I was talking about. He took a quick glance at it and said they didn't concern themselves about specific makers and the box and the tools it contained were $50. Perturbed by the flunky's attitude, I went back to 'splane it to the boss again. He had a much more congenial attitude and accepted my offer of $30 minus the shiny tools I wasn't interested in. Sold.

Researching, I read Lugz's account of another couple of No.82 sets back in 2018. My set is complete minus a "connector box" which I would dearly love to see a picture of, since I don't know what that is. The gentle cleaning I've given the universal and the ratchet adapter (lower left) have been quite successful.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm over two years late to the game,...

Better late than never! Very cool find and welcome to the No. 82 Professional club. My box and tools are in better condition that yours, but your box decal is exceptionally clean!

Researching, I read Lugz's account of another couple of No.82 sets back in 2018.

I'm not sure what this is referring to. I don't remember talking about any other set except the one I am showing in posts #21 through #23.

My set is complete minus a "connector box" which I would dearly love to see a picture of, since I don't know what that is.

The "Connecting Block", No. 371, is the drive plug.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

what year range on those?
the only "heavy duty" I'm finding in my Mossberg folder is a 1920 page showing T-handles like your examples above

The catalog excerpts are from a 1920 catalog on IA/ITCL. It is attributed to Mossberg, but I think it might be the Mossberg section of a hardware store or hardware suppliers catalog. If you search IA/ITCL on "Mossberg" you'll see it.

 

[Old Radar]

I think at the time I posted my Garage Sale find, I thought the OP here and yours were two different sets.

Yes, I saw your post about the 371 drive plug. Did you ever find one?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

No. I've got an orphan Walden or Hinsdale in there I think.

 

[four.cycle]

Model 82 Mossberg Socket Wrench Set
( or, alternately, "Mossberag" in at least one catalog )
(these are posted somewhere else on this site but I wasn't able to find them.)

 

[Old Radar]

Just a quick update, since I was way to optimistic on my clean-up estimate. I started on the box since it needed serious help including cleaning, sheet metal straightening and re-bending and aligning the piano hinge that was sprung.

A great development was I actually have the 371 "connecting block". It was sitting quietly in the 350 ratchet, where it belongs, but since its non-descriptive name gave me no clue as to it's purpose (I was thinking of some block shaped hunk of steel that held two things together) I didn't look closely at the "drive plug".

It's interesting that the hexagonal plate on my 371 is noticeably off-center.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Just a quick update...

The box looks great, OR! I'd be interested in your take on the color. Mine is tricky. It's either a deep mossy brown or a deep chocolate green.

 

[Old Radar]

Exactly!

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Lugz--
I'm over two years late to the game, but your recent post here brought this thread back to my attention. After what must have been a frantic garage clean-up for some forgotten reason, during which several items got "shelved," this thread and my Mossberg 82 set, were "out of sight and out of mind." If all goes well, I'll spend tomorrow cleaning up my set and post it here. In the mean time, here is a re-posting of my Feb 2022 Garage Sale find:

The second sale didn't have much I was interested in and when I saw this I forgot about whatever that might have been...

They had it marked as $50 for "the set." Looking inside, about a third of the things in there were not Mossberg. I went to find the guy in charge and explained I was interested in the set but not all of it. He sent one of his guys to see what I was talking about. He took a quick glance at it and said they didn't concern themselves about specific makers and the box and the tools it contained were $50. Perturbed by the flunky's attitude, I went back to 'splane it to the boss again. He had a much more congenial attitude and accepted my offer of $30 minus the shiny tools I wasn't interested in. Sold.

Researching, I read Lugz's account of another couple of No.82 sets back in 2018. My set is complete minus a "connector box" which I would dearly love to see a picture of, since I don't know what that is. The gentle cleaning I've given the universal and the ratchet adapter (lower left) have been quite successful.

What a superb set

 

[Old Radar]

I decided the worn out fluid left in my old quart of Evapo-Rust just wasn't up to the task, so I splurged on a 3.5 gal bucket of fresh stuff. Glad I did--even though I had to first de-grease all the parts first. Soak, Rinse, Repeat--took me two days. Then I used Johnson's Past Wax to stave off the flash rust. The wax slightly darkened some of the pieces.
A few discoveries during/after the cleaning process:
1. I've got a duplicate 13/16" socket, but am missing the 5/8".
2. What I assumed was the 367 Speed Brace, not only wasn't a speeder, it wasn't a Mossberg at all-- it's an unbranded 3/4" socket handle.
3. I have three styles of crosshatch knurling--fine, coarse and acute angle--see photo.
4. The brackets for the 366 speeder keep the speeder handle too close to the edge of the door flap and prevent the flap from closing.
5. My luck with decals continues to be poor. Gently using only a Q-tip and plain water to address some dirt, I still lost a little ink.

Anyway, here's the cleaned up case with tools:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice job! Looks terrific. Mine won't close right, either, for the same reason. It takes some finesseing.

 

[Old Radar]

I thought my brackets were a little wonky or fastened just out of spec, so I bent them a little to allow the brace to seat further away from the edge, but then when the flap latches, the brace falls out of them...

I don't suppose you have a dup 5/8 and need a 13/16?

Do you also have different style knurls?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I never tried to classify and enumerate them, but I do recall they're not all consistent. A few were a little different from the rest. I'll try to make some time to take some photos tomorrow, but you can look over the pics I already posted back on page 1 in the meantime if your curiosity gets the best of you.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I decided the worn out fluid left in my old quart of Evapo-Rust just wasn't up to the task, so I splurged on a 3.5 gal bucket of fresh stuff. Glad I did--even though I had to first de-grease all the parts first. Soak, Rinse, Repeat--took me two days. Then I used Johnson's Past Wax to stave off the flash rust. The wax slightly darkened some of the pieces.
A few discoveries during/after the cleaning process:
1. I've got a duplicate 13/16" socket, but am missing the 5/8".
2. What I assumed was the 367 Speed Brace, not only wasn't a speeder, it wasn't a Mossberg at all-- it's an unbranded 3/4" socket handle.
3. I have three styles of crosshatch knurling--fine, coarse and acute angle--see photo.
4. The brackets for the 366 speeder keep the speeder handle too close to the edge of the door flap and prevent the flap from closing.
5. My luck with decals continues to be poor. Gently using only a Q-tip and plain water to address some dirt, I still lost a little ink.

Anyway, here's the cleaned up case with tools:

Man that is fantastic. I want one.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Old Radar
As promised, some close-ups...

Here are all the sockets in my set, top two rows are hex, bottom row is square.



As I said, to me, there are some differences in the knurling patterns, but not what I would call drastic.

You can have fun trying to characterize them and compare to yours. I'm not sure I have a keen enough eye. I am not sure it's not just a function of the same die, different roll stamping machine, and different operator, or slight variations of either of those factors producing different implementations (deeper, etc), but if I was forced to study the shapes formed between the intersections of the crosshatched lines, gun to my head, here they are in the groups I see.

These look much more like blobs, squashed ovals or dots than diamonds.



These look like true diamonds.



And these look like skinnier diamonds, I guess, but not so different from those above.

 

[Old Radar]

Yep, no mater what we call them, the variations seem consistent in both sets. Thanks for looking.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...the variations seem consistent in both sets.

Looking at yours again, I agree, and I like your terminology better. I guess they were being put through finishing with fine, coarse, and acute patterns and then distributed to sets for sale indiscriminately.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I have a new life goal

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I took possession of this c. 1927 Mossberg Socket Wrench Set No. 82 on Black Friday. It’s a wonderful kit!

You know this box reminds me so much of the 1920s snap on stuff. I like this even more

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have a new life goal

They're out there! I thought I had the only one - and then @Old Radar found one!

You know this box reminds me so much of the 1920s snap on stuff. I like this even more

That's a great comparison! But Mossberg and its short-lived contribution in the early hot-forged cold-broached era is like the Rodney Dangerfield of vintage tools.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

They're out there! I thought I had the only one - and then @Old Radar found one!

That's a great comparison! But Mossberg and its short-lived contribution in the early hot-forged cold-broached era is like the Rodney Dangerfield of vintage tools.

I seriously am going to focus on this set. I love it.

 

[Beerhippie]

This seems to be the best place for these APCO Mossberg tools:





I haven't found much on the torque wrench, other than some examples from WWII that are stamped US (this one is not), but I did find the "ratcheting" adapter (that doesn't ratchet) on AA: http://alloy-artifacts.org/frank-mossberg-company-p2.html (about halfway down the page)

If AA is correct, I believe my No. 909 "Frictionless Reversible Ratchet Unit" would be 1929, as it has scraps of nickel plating remaining. It was attached to the wrench when found.

 

[Beerhippie]

It just occurred to me to look up the patent # of the torque wrench: 2196223: https://www.datamp.org/patents/displayPatent.php?pn=2196223&id=52584

So, 1940 or later.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

This seems to be the best place for these APCO Mossberg tools:





I haven't found much on the torque wrench, other than some examples from WWII that are stamped US (this one is not), but I did find the "ratcheting" adapter (that doesn't ratchet) on AA: http://alloy-artifacts.org/frank-mossberg-company-p2.html (about halfway down the page)

If AA is correct, I believe my No. 909 "Frictionless Reversible Ratchet Unit" would be 1929, as it has scraps of nickel plating remaining. It was attached to the wrench when found.

I have a couple as well

 

[Private Lugnutz]

A Mossberg No. 890 ratchet has been posted on a solo thread, here.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Since we don't have an APCO-Mossberg thread, I'll just leave this universal drain plug wrench here on a thread discussing tools from Mossberg's last gasp offerings.



It was a freebie from Don (@d42jeep). Jock (@Provincial) reported finding one a few years ago on the GS thread. I don't think Mossberg was making it prior to the APCO merger. It doesn't show up in the 1928 catalog or in any late-period ads or trade mags.

I was able to find this snippet-only view reference in a 1940 Canadian trade mag...



...and this funny but also endearing mention in a 1982 issue of Cars & Parts, which seems to have been dedicated to the resurgent restoration/rod hobby. It's also a snippet-only view that Google Books cannot make fully available, but I managed to piece a few different snippets together to near-complete the Q&A, which is kinda sorta like the 1982 long distance print and US Mail version of a Garage Journal "Whatzit?" thread. Grady Cox of Avery, Texas has found one but has no idea what it is. So, of course he quaintly draws a picture of the wrench and sends it in a letter to Ken New, the "Tool Talk" (letters) section editor of Cars & Parts. Ken doesn't know what it is, either, but he guesses it might be automotive based on the branding, and begins to give Grady a history lesson on Mossberg. I tried to query my way into a snippet of the rest of his Answer, but no dice.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Some sparkplug sockets, label is hard to read but I can make out mossberg

 

[d42jeep]

The Mossberg spark plug sockets that were included in onboard WW2 Jeep toolsets look quite similar.
-Don

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yup just no chrome!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Some sparkplug sockets, label is hard to read but I can make out mossberg

That is as an awesome kit! The wood box and the multiple sizes and a little compartment for the crossbar is what makes it so special! Obviously prewar.

The Mossberg spark plug sockets that were included in onboard WW2 Jeep toolsets look quite similar.

Indeed. APCO-Mossberg at that time, though, and for almost 12 years.

Yup just no chrome!

Well, yeah, that (they were actually "sheradized" (galvanized)), and they would be marked differently. Factory kits (those issued by Willys Overland, and later, Ford), would have a "W.O. 637635" stamped on them, for Willys Overland and their part number, and "GPW 17017-A2", for Ford's designator equivalent to Willys' "MB" and Ford's part number. Or nothing. A recent trove of unmolested NOS SPW's still in cosmolene and pkging just had the "APCO-Mossberg" branding and the < M > logo on the crossbar (which had its own P/N), both painted OD green. I have never been fortunate enough to find a factory SPW in the wild. I have found several marked with FSN's (41-W-3335-30, 41-W-3335-40, and 41-W-3335-50), which would've been issued as replacements by the Ordnance Dept. The sizing story gets too weird and intricate for this thread, but the Willys factory jeep SPW spec was originally 13/16" hex opening.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm a little disappointed that Cars & Parts letters section Q&A on the drain plug didn't get more chortles. It's exactly like a Whatzit? thread - without a camera, internet, or forum!

 

[d42jeep]

You found out more about it in a few days than the whole time I had it sitting around the garage. I knew it needed a new home.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Which wasn't much! But that '82 Cars & Parts Q&A I only found because of the tool is so precious it made my entire month!