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2” spray foam or 3”?

FL Guy

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Dec 21, 2022
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Building is getting spray foamed next Friday. The contractor told me he can spray an extra inch on the roof for $1.15 per square foot. This will give me 3” instead of 2”.
That’ll be an extra $1200.
Is that 1 inch of extra foam worth it or no?

I’m already getting 2” on roof and walls.

Im in Central Fl
 
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Denwood

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Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Check this video out ... on the value of extra insulation. It puts a different perspective on code vs adding extra insulation based on a presentation by Allison Bailes. I'm 100% in agreement with going 50 to 100% past code as once the envelope is in place, it does not cost anything extra after, only saving $$ on operating costs.

 

jack stand

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Lakes Region Maine
Building is getting spray foamed next Friday. The contractor told me he can spray an extra inch on the roof for $1.15 per square foot. This will give me 3” instead of 2”.
That’ll be an extra $1200.
Is that 1 inch of extra foam worth it or no?

I’m already getting 2” on roof and walls.

Im in Central Fl
If you're cooling it, eventually it'll pay you back!
I'd imagine that it's got to delay (further) the time before you need the air conditioning and the sooner you might not need it also. $1200 in the scope of your total building costs is really insignificant. 👍
 

dfiler2

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I would go for the extra, the $1200 may take a while to recover but the comfort you get from the extra insulation will be felt right away.
 
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FL Guy

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Looks like it’s just a 4% reduction in heat loss for an extra inch of closed cell foam going from 2 to 3 inches?
 

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American Locomotive

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One thing I learned in stats class in college was to always pay attention to what the "reference" value is. In this case, the reference in that chart is a completely bare un-insulated wall which has an absurdly high heat loss. This really distorts the data.

But when you look at the actual test data on the right, 2.0" of foam has a 79 btu/hr loss (at given test size), and 3.0" has a 59 btu/hr loss. When switching the reference to the 2" of foam, we see that 3" of foam has a 25% reduction in heat loss compared to 2".

So whatever your heating/cooling costs would be with 2" of foam, they will be 25% lower with 3".

If that still doesn't make sense, let's put some values to it:
  • Let's someone has a giant completely uninsulated shop that costs $10000/year to air condition.
    • Going to 2" of spray foam will reduce your cooling costs to $1400/year
    • Going to 3" of spray foam will reduce your cooling costs to $1000/year
So for the guy who was paying $10k/year, any insulation at all will make a big difference, and the $400/year difference between 2" and 3" is meaningless compared to the nearly $9000/year he'll be saving. But for you, it isn't a no-insulation-vs-2" or no-insulation-vs-3" sort of thing. It's a 2" vs 3". In which case, you'd be going from a baseline of $1400/year to $1000/year, which is pretty significant.

For you, I think it the extra insulation would probably pay for itself in around 5-6 years, assuming you use the shop a lot.
 
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Wiz02

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There's liars, damn liars and then there are statisticians. I become extremely wary when percentages are bandied about.
 

littleboss

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Go with 3" everywhere. I have a shop with 2" on the side walls. When the temp outside is 100 and over and once the sun gets low and hits the west wall the air conditioner can hardly keep up. 2.25 ton unit in a 20x35x10 shop with 2" foam in the walls and R30 batts in the attic).
I don't remember the temp of the west wall at the moment but it was really radiating the heat..
 
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FL Guy

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Go with 3" everywhere. I have a shop with 2" on the side walls. When the temp outside is 100 and over and once the sun gets low and hits the west wall the air conditioner can hardly keep up. 2.25 ton unit in a 20x35x10 shop with 2" foam in the walls and R30 batts in the attic).
I don't remember the temp of the west wall at the moment but it was really radiating the heat..
They definitely gave me 2"+ everywhere. On the ceiling there are areas I got 12"! Rest of it is at least 3.5" minimum..
On the peak area where the cross support is, there’s about 13” from support to roof. As you can see, it’s completely filled in.
Going to start a new post. I'll have more pictures on there. I do have other questions regarding the foam.
 

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dcg9381

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Building is getting spray foamed next Friday. The contractor told me he can spray an extra inch on the roof for $1.15 per square foot. This will give me 3” instead of 2”.
That’ll be an extra $1200.
Is that 1 inch of extra foam worth it or no?
IMHO, he's already buying a quantity of barrels and may not be able to re-use what's left, so he's discounting it. Dunno how large your structure is.

I generally go for the recommended version of R value in your geography, UNLESS it's a shop that only has part time heating/cooling. In that case, rather than spend $10-15k on insulation, I opted for about $7k and oversized the ductless a bit. The cost offset would never be paid back in my lifetime...

And remember, garage doors and windows are just big holes in the insulation... compared to any insulated wall anyway.
 

FredWanaker

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I don't know if this will help. We have a code requirement here of R40 in the attic. I had R19 cellulose + R19 batts up there and they had both deteriorated over the years. Had all vacuumed out, all penetrations sealed and new R50 blown in. Cost was $4,000 w/ blown in fiberglass. Cost of R40 cellulose was $2,800. Already have most of it back in reduced cooling and heating costs. We are in CA central valley. My neighbors are always amazed how much lower our electric cost is than theirs. 3" will probably keep the shop cooler until late evening then warmer in the morning. It will slow the heat transfer essentially by 50% better compared to 2". (.5 x 2" is 1"). Personally, I would do it. There is no way of knowing where electric costs are going to go in this country.
 

vavet

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Ashland, VA
Most of the value of spray foam is in the first dusting of it. It seals the entire building like batt insulation never could.
Based on that, it seems like I'm going to tell you to forgo the extra inch, right?
WRONG!
I didn't verify the numbers the posters before me tossed out there. 5-6 years seems a little optimistic to recoup the savings, but it might be true. I don't know.
Point: an extra inch adds zero value to resale
Counterpoint: if it can reduce your HVAC run time, maybe it extends to replacement/repair interval. That further offsets the cost of the extra insulation.

I'd spend the extra $1200 if it was my money.
 

FredWanaker

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whether it adds value or not on resale is unknown. If the house and garage are all up to date, over code and well kept, there are buyers who only buy by price, and others who are looking for a specific quality in construction and maintenance. It may not add to the value on an appraisal, but it will to that buyer who knows what they want and what it costs to get there. I bypass a lot of products, new and used, when I pencil in what it will cost me to get things where I want them to be. But I have friends who are the opposite and don't care one bit because they want something as cheap as possible when they buy it. Whether it lasts or not they don't care. For an example, I don't have or want solar panels on my roof. The payback with our lifestyle is 30 - 40 years. I am in my 70's. If you offered me a home with solar on it I would only pay more as to what I could save in power the next 8 - 10 years. My electric bill is only about $900 a year now so what would I save? But if I was buying a home and garage with high quality insulation and construction, I would not deduct from the price what it might cost me to upgrade it, or how much a year it might cost me more to heat and cool.
 

housewolf

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East Texas
Go with 3" everywhere. I have a shop with 2" on the side walls. When the temp outside is 100 and over and once the sun gets low and hits the west wall the air conditioner can hardly keep up. 2.25 ton unit in a 20x35x10 shop with 2" foam in the walls and R30 batts in the attic).
I don't remember the temp of the west wall at the moment but it was really radiating the heat..
That’s odd. I have (roughly) ~2” on my walls, 5” on my roof, about the same size metal shop with a 1-1/2T mini split and can cool it to 75* in minutes.

My 12’x10’ door isn’t even insulated
 

dcg9381

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Austin, TX
whether it adds value or not on resale is unknown. If the house and garage are all up to date, over code and well kept, there are buyers who only buy by price, and others who are looking for a specific quality in construction and maintenance. It may not add to the value on an appraisal, but it will to that buyer who knows what they want and what it costs to get there.
I'll certainly pay more for a foam insulated home. I'd wager that most people won't. They look at the "icing" not the cake.
Even looking at a shop, it'd be hard for me to figure out if you've got 2" or 5" of foam insulation. I'd assume if it's got foam insulation (at all) that's good enough for me.

Solar is a craps shoot. Some people hate it and it's a deal breaker (especially if you can see it from the front of the house). Some people don't care (I got a call from a home owner that had bought a home with PV - they never turned their system on). And some people do thing it adds value.

The tax man here will increase appraisals due to PV solar. I've never seen them increase an appraisal due to insulation type, but they do grade "construction quality" (from the outside).
 

Steve68!

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Nov 10, 2011
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8
They definitely gave me 2"+ everywhere. On the ceiling there are areas I got 12"! Rest of it is at least 3.5" minimum..
On the peak area where the cross support is, there’s about 13” from support to roof. As you can see, it’s completely filled in.
Going to start a new post. I'll have more pictures on there. I do have other questions regarding the foam.

Hello, I'm in Orlando far east side, Who did your spray foam? looks very thick, thanks
 

littleboss

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Feb 2, 2018
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134
That’s odd. I have (roughly) ~2” on my walls, 5” on my roof, about the same size metal shop with a 1-1/2T mini split and can cool it to 75* in minutes.

My 12’x10’ door isn’t even insulated
Old post but just now found this again. My buildings long side (35') faces the west. Once the sun comes down in the west below the roof and hits that wall it ridiculous how hot on that wall
 
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