paulsomlo
Well-known member
The problem is that the penetrating oil just can't get past the surface and down into the threads, the rust won't allow it. Many times, when I use penetrating oil, the fastener eventually comes out with dry threads.
2003 Toyota Avalon A/F Sensor Replacement
- Thread starter Maui
- Start date
nicks78camaro
Well-known member
Whatever you choose, there's always a chance the threads come out of the exhaust and you're now into repairing the threads with the part on or off the car, or replacing the exhaust.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Penetrating oil is going to do nothing. The sensor has a sealing washer above the threads. Unless there is soot from exhaust leaking, penetrating oil isn't going to touch those threads.
Pull the intake if need be for access. I like a 24" ratchet for anything remotely stubborn. You also want 1/2 drive tools for this if you can fit them in there.
Pull the intake if need be for access. I like a 24" ratchet for anything remotely stubborn. You also want 1/2 drive tools for this if you can fit them in there.
Wrench97
Well-known member
What that special sauce won't penetrate the the sealing washer and coat the rusted threads with the magic juice to make the O2 sensor finger tight?
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
What that special sauce won't penetrate the the sealing washer and coat the rusted threads with the magic juice to make the O2 sensor finger tight?
Penetrating oil is great as a lubricant as things are unthreaded to help keep stuff moving. Washing rust particles away, helping to cool and prevent seizing mid removal, etc.
I don't care what product you want to use, douse the thing until the second coming - if the threaded area is sealed from outside intrusion due to rust, zero penetrant will reach the threads. It's like spraying penetrating oil on a caliper banjo bolt. Of course it will not enter the brake fluid system, it is simply laying on the surface while the sealing washers seal the threads. Rust seals the threads from the fluid.
Penetrating oil won’t do anything to the threads. They are below a gas-tight metal washer. Oxy acetylene is the preferred method with a 22mm socket.
Might be worth it to take it to shop. On a lift, it may be more accessible. Northern NY shops are no strangers to seized fasteners! Best of luck.
Fwiw, my tool of choice is a short 22mm box wrench & a small sledge hammer, if you have the room (from below ?).
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Removing the manifold and spraying the penetrating oil down the runners or through the collector would probably help. The soot usually breaks down pretty quick.
LoL removing the manifold is usually even harder than the O2 sensors.
This guy O2 sensors...heat is the only way as I said on the last page.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I was being sarcastic. The last thing a DIY needs to be messing with is rusty toyota exhaust hardware. It's like they designed it to gall upon removal.
Didn't read that way.
I never had issues maintaining Toyota vehicles in the snowy salty white north here, in fact, they came apart better than a lot of other vehicles I've dealt with *cough* mazda *cough*
The thing that surprised me was that the first sensor that went bad came off EASILY. I had it removed and the new one installed and the car running again in under 15 minutes. And this is EXACTLY the same sensor, but just in a different location on the engine. It's on the firewall side of the engine closer to the ground, and apparently that by itself makes a world of difference up here in the frigid, salty North.
They come out way easier when hot. Drive it like you stole it, get it up quickly and crank it out.
And sometimes the easiest looking way to get a wrench on them isn't the best, sometimes you have to think a bit. Note the image below, the 02 is down near the wheel well, look where I have the breaker bar and extensions.
And sometimes the easiest looking way to get a wrench on them isn't the best, sometimes you have to think a bit. Note the image below, the 02 is down near the wheel well, look where I have the breaker bar and extensions.
I have run the engine prior to trying to remove it to warm it up, but haven't gotten it THAT hot. It's worth a try. Getting a wrench on it to get the proper leverage does take some thought. Thanks for the illustration.They come out way easier when hot. Drive it like you stole it, get it up quickly and crank it out.
And sometimes the easiest looking way to get a wrench on them isn't the best, sometimes you have to think a bit. Note the image below, the 02 is down near the wheel well, look where I have the breaker bar and extensions.
signcrafter
Well-known member
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- May 9, 2012
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I don't have many snap on tools but have invested in a few that I feel are worth it, one is this O2 sensor wrench. It gets in a lot of tight spots and have put a pipe on it for leverage, https://shop.snapon.com/product/Sensor-Tools/Oxygen-Sensor-Wrench/SWR1A
I've never used one but have wanted to look into the O2 sensor air wrench for a while. Anyone use one like this before? Just went to google it and looks like it's discontinued, was lisle 43960. https://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ll-43960
I've never used one but have wanted to look into the O2 sensor air wrench for a while. Anyone use one like this before? Just went to google it and looks like it's discontinued, was lisle 43960. https://www.northernautoparts.com/part/ll-43960
Wow that Snappy is sweet. I have a basic auto parts store O2 socket. Don't know if it's me or my imagination but feel it sometimes "spreads" allowing it to skip around the O2 sensor and sometimes the sensor actually gets jammed in the socket. Last Sensor I did (this past weekend) I just used a combination wrench. Don't really do enough to justify that Snap-on but you've got me thinking....
signcrafter
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I don't really do many either but it's one of those tools that just works, never seen it spread. I know there are some other brands with similar design, no clue how good they are compared. But in my mind on tough jobs like this I rather spend money on whatever tool might make the job easier. Figure I'm saving the money I would have otherwise paid a shop to change it so spend that money on tools and have the tool for future.
bwringer
Well-known member
I've never had the least bit of luck with any O2 sensor socket; they all spread out. The only thing that's ever done any good was beating on a 22mm 6 point box end, or cutting the wires and using a 22mm socket.
And heat, yeah heat. Drive it around for a while, and/or use a torch.
That said, I haven't tried that Snap-On, or a similar tool. Looks beefy.
And heat, yeah heat. Drive it around for a while, and/or use a torch.
That said, I haven't tried that Snap-On, or a similar tool. Looks beefy.
Ramblin Man
Well-known member
Along with the advise of a hot engine temperature, if they are stuck tight, I first give it a pull in the tightening direction. I try to feel or hear something happen, then go to the loosen direction.
toddmorr
Well-known member
This is my go to, rare that it can't fit, I've used it a ton, including on the same motor as op. It has also survived serious hammer whacks on the handle.
sptool.com
67750A SUPER DUTY 22mm 12 & 6 POINT SPLINE DRIVE OXYGEN SENSOR WRENCH WITH HANDLE
To purchase this product, click here: www.schleytools.com -- This versatile wrench has been designed for use on most oxygen sensors with electrical connectors of any size. Offering maximum accessibility, this wrench removes sensors in hard-to-reach areas with the 12-point Spline Grip Drive™...
sptool.com
Wamsutta
Well-known member
visionguru
Well-known member
You only need a good pull with a long rachet. O2 sensors only have 4~5 threads, installed with antiseize, rarely need anything dramatic.
First, good sockets, this is probably the best among non-truck brands:
Differrent lengths, crawfoot will be helpful to avoid obstacles.
2nd, 1/2" drive long rachet, extension (to avoid obstacles)
3rd, make room. Will removing intake air tubes, boxes helpful? Any hoses are in the way? Can you access it from down under?
I recently changed 4 O2 sensors on a Honda V6. The biggest headache was one of the sensor 2's. I had to craw under, extremely tight and awkward. Thinking back, without my Gearwrench 120XP 17" 1/2" rachet (I only have about 30 degree swing room), without those O2 sensor sockets, without extension, I would not have done that O2 sensor.
Be patient, focusing on how to gain better access. You will figure it out.
tooljunkie4
Well-known member
How did this situation turn out?
One of those situations where it was well worth the $.
Reminds me of the shop by my house that will swap on a pair of springs for like $20 with their industrial spring compressor. Don't even dabble with anything you can buy as a DIYer for that $.
strutaeng
Well-known member
Nothing wrong with that honestly. I think you did well. Glad problem is fixed and you can move with your life. 
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Save a penny and spend a dollar is and old saying that a lot of Garage Journal contributors could take to heart. I buy tools because I like tools. If I ever use them, which from time to time I do, that's a plus but certainly not the reason I bought them.
Two friends of mine just replaced the head gasket on a Toyota Prius that the daughter of one of them drives. I happened to have the proper double hex bit needed to remove and install the head bolts and the torque angle torque wrench needed to install them. I've never used these myself and I doubt that I ever will since for me to keep a car over five years is a rarity. But it was fun letting my buddies use my tools to actually accomplish something. Scotts ancient Craftsman ratchet died (thank god) and I was so impressed by Scott's talent at completing this job in 12 hours that I went into my way back machine and found a brand new 40 year old Snap-On ratchet that I had never used and gave it to him as a gift. He loved it and it made me feel good that it will, after all these years, finally be used. The Prius is running fine if anybody cares.
Two friends of mine just replaced the head gasket on a Toyota Prius that the daughter of one of them drives. I happened to have the proper double hex bit needed to remove and install the head bolts and the torque angle torque wrench needed to install them. I've never used these myself and I doubt that I ever will since for me to keep a car over five years is a rarity. But it was fun letting my buddies use my tools to actually accomplish something. Scotts ancient Craftsman ratchet died (thank god) and I was so impressed by Scott's talent at completing this job in 12 hours that I went into my way back machine and found a brand new 40 year old Snap-On ratchet that I had never used and gave it to him as a gift. He loved it and it made me feel good that it will, after all these years, finally be used. The Prius is running fine if anybody cares.
signcrafter
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I'm programmed different the way my mind thinks. I've always tried to do things myself to save money. Sometimes it ends up being an expensive learning lesson. But I have the mindset that I would rather buy tools then pay someone else to do it for me. I would have spent the 450 or whatever they are now for the bolt buster and it would have came right out. Would have cost more but you would own a great tool to have. Sometimes it's best to know when to throw in the towel and not take.the chance of making things worse. But sometimes you just go for it and do whatever neccessary to get it done. Even if it means spending way more in tools then the repair would cost at shop. And before you know it you will have all sorts of "oh ****" tools and many tricks you learn along the way for when you run into these issues.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
A lot of times just the experience is worth it, even if it ***** in the moment. Think about how many jobs kicked your ***, but you learned something critical that has helped you since.
joel63
Well-known member
You did well.
joel63
Well-known member
I've been there many times, but each time I came away from the experience having learned something.
Getting a new tools always feels satisfying.
Sure, the failure ends costing you money and time, but education always cost time and money.
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jonesg
Well-known member
get this , the low profile allows better leverage than deep sockets.
torch it until cherry red, should come out like buddah.
otherwise I'd dropt the exh or have a shop do it and be done.
torch it until cherry red, should come out like buddah.
otherwise I'd dropt the exh or have a shop do it and be done.
I actually purchased a set of offset sockets from Autozone to remove this A/F sensor. One of them in that set was an incredibly sloppy fit. And the other one that did fit sort of "OK" flexed badly enough under load that it wouldn't budge the sensor. So I decided to take things into my own hands a build a wrench from scratch even though the job is already completed. I may need this down the road if I ever have to deal with this problem again. And I might as well take what I learned and use it now before I forget it. So I sat down two days ago and drew up a design by hand, calculated out the dimensions, and went to work in my basement. I had an old steel fixture that has been sitting around for years, and I kept it to use the steel in it for machining projects. So I removed a piece from it and milled and turned it on my lathe to make a socket for the A/F sensor. The steel is about 3/4" thick. The distance between the flats on the sensor measures 0.858", so I machined the socket so the distance between adjacent flats is about 0.864". The sensor slides into it easily and there is no perceptible slop in the fitment. And the sensor harness slides right through it too, so there isn't any need to slot it for the wiring harness. The corners have holes drilled through so that the wrench can't damage the corners on the A/F sensor nut (like my sloppy wrenches did). I'll machine and shape the head on this to accept a specially designed wrench handle. I'll be out of town all next week and probably won't have any time to work on it until after I return. And I've never made anything like this before, so this is a first time experience for me in actually fabricating a wrench like this. So please be patient. I would certainly welcome your input in terms of ideas on how to design the handle and attachment - I know what I have planned, but somebody here might have better ideas.
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I was helping my sister with her V6 Camry, same sensor. I took one look and told her this might have to go to a shop. I got extremely lucky and was able to spin it out with a 7/8" wrench. There are always going to be the odd instance where you just have to pay someone to finish it.
jonesg
Well-known member
cheapo deep o2 split sockets tend to open up, you can prevent that by using a hose clamp.
That was the very first thing I tried. No luck. And I can put enough force on these things to do some real damage, so I had to be careful in order to prevent that as much as possible while still getting it to loosen up. I've sheared heads off of bolts on engine blocks before, and definitely did NOT want to do that here.
I totally get it. I learned a long time ago (I'm 66) that sometimes you got to let your pride go. My pride has cost me $$$ in the past and California cars don't have too many issues with rust.