220 circuit split question

[glennm]

Hi
i am considering purchasing a Laguna 14BX bandsaw (any thoughts on the saw would be welcome). It is available as a 110 or 220. The 220 is more robust and it is actually a bit less money right now. I would need to run a new circuit for the 110 because I believe it needs a 20 amp breaker so I don’t see any advantage in choosing that one. i have an ingersol rand compressor hard wired on a double 20A breaker right beside where the saw would be located, I am wondering if there is any reason that I shouldn‘t add a surface mount box, install a 220 receptacle and also feed the compressor from the same box? The two would not be running at the same time and it would save a lot of work running a second circuit.

 

[eegger]

Sure you could leave the Compressor hard wired and wire a outlet off of that.

 

[u2slow]

You could do 6-20R receptacles and plug in either/both.

Not sure what NEC says about hardwiring both to the same 20A circuit.

 

[glennm]

My thought is to hard wire the compressor and have a receptacle for the saw

 

[u2slow]

My thought is to hard wire the compressor and have a receptacle for the saw

If that's what I wanted in my own shop, I'd just do it and not think twice about it.

 

[Zeke]

I'll bet that under most circumstances both would run at the same time w/o a problem. A BS is not something you bear down on much. They just don't work that way, say, as opposed to a table saw. Only if they started at the same instant and I would think that any delay built into the breaker would allow that.

This should explain it.

 

[marak]

I've had the Laguna LT16 HD, made in Italy, for about 7 years now and I absolutely love the thing. Simply a pleasure to use and is one of my favorite woodworking tools. It is 240V, as is most equipment in my shops, and I use Twist-Locks for all of them with the exception of welders, plasma cutter, and air compressor.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is the HP rating on the compressor motor and BS motor and do either of them have integral overload protection?

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don't know if this is NEC "legal", but I would add a pigtail with a 6-20P plug. Put a 6-20P on the bandsaw and install a 6-20R receptacle. Obviously you can only use them one at a time.

What is the HP rating on the compressor motor and BS motor and do either of them have integral overload protection?

These are the details I don't know about.

 

[u2slow]

do either of them have integral overload protection?

Aka "thermally protected" ... Often a reset button on it somewhere then too.

 

[glennm]

The compressor has a protect. Not sure about the saw (I don’t have it yet)

 

[alfredeneuman]

What is the HP rating on the compressor motor and BS motor

The "220" version of the bandsaw is rated 2.5 HP. It also says to use 15A C/B (I looked at the manual)

 

[eegger]

2.5HP, 9.8Amp for 220v

6 ft. Cord w/Nema Plug: 6-15P

You'd have to change the plug/or get an adapter to go to a 20A outlet.

 

[pattenp]

Nema 6-15 is rated to 1.5hp. Using a non manufacturer installed plug would need to be a 6-50 which is 3hp rated.

 

[rpcraft]

If they sell the same unit in 220 or 110 how is one more robust? Just curious. Usually I go for 110 as much for items for shop equipment, especially something I am moving around or using semi-portably. I do simply because I'm able to use in locations other than my shop at a 220 socket. My main desire for something being 220 is only when it has to use more energy capacity than a 110 line can support.

 

[eegger]

Nema 6-15 is rated to 1.5hp. Using a non manufacturer installed plug would need to be a 6-50 which is 3hp rated.

That's straight out of the manual.

The bandsaw is supplied pre-wired with a 110V (NEMA 5-15P) 3pin plug or 220V (NEMA6- 1 5P) 3-pin plug. It is recommended that The bandsaw be connected to a 15-amp breaker. The start/stop button activates the motor.

 

[Norcal]

It's time for A-holes who import equipment with obsolete voltages to have a chain attached to their ankle & the other end to their **** machine, then push the machine overboard. Rant over, more then a bit harsh but that garbage needs to stay in whatever s-hole country until they can supply it to standard voltages, the Europeans & Chinese seem to be the worst at that.

 

[pattenp]

That's straight out of the manual.

The bandsaw is supplied pre-wired with a 110V (NEMA 5-15P) 3pin plug or 220V (NEMA6- 1 5P) 3-pin plug. It is recommended that The bandsaw be connected to a 15-amp breaker. The start/stop button activates the motor.

I guess you didn't understand what I was saying. The factory installed 6-15 plug is okay. If modification is done to the cord and a non-factory replacement plug is used it would need to be a 6-50 to be NEC compliant if the motor is actually 2.5hp.

 

[TRWham]

It's time for A-holes who import equipment with obsolete voltages to have a chain attached to their ankle & the other end to their **** machine, then push the machine overboard. Rant over, more then a bit harsh but that garbage needs to stay in whatever s-hole country until they can supply it to standard voltages, the Europeans & Chinese seem to be the worst at that.

I know Brazil, South Korea and Saudi Arabia still use 220 V 60 Hz power. There may be others but those are the 3 I dealt with most often when building equipment.

 

[Sumboodie]

Nema 6-15 is rated to 1.5hp. Using a non manufacturer installed plug would need to be a 6-50 which is 3hp rated.

3hp? Are plugs derated that much?

6-50 is a 50 amp setup.

50 amps is ~ 16 hp.

 

[Sumboodie]

I know Brazil, South Korea and Saudi Arabia still use 220 V 60 Hz power. There may be others but those are the 3 I dealt with most often when building equipment.

S Korea was 50Hz when I lived there about 20 yrs ago.. I remember figuring it out when my alarm clock kept losing time.

 

[TRWham]

S Korea was 50Hz when I lived there about 20 yrs ago.. I remember figuring it out when my alarm clock kept losing time.

Well they bought a lot of 60 Hz compressors both in 220 V and 380 V versions.

 

[The Cobbler]

There's been tons of posts on this board with respect to HP ratings & plugs. yes, plugs need to be HP rated

 

[TRWham]

There's been tons of posts on this board with respect to HP ratings & plugs. yes, plugs need to be HP rated

But if the equipment is a listed appliance, then Article 422 says that whatever the OEM supplies is acceptable and Article 430 no longer applies.

 

[The Cobbler]

^^^ Ok, makes sense . So manufacturers can put on a plug but that's it.

 

[Norcal]

Like it or not, 110,220,440 volts are not supply voltages, 120,208,240,480 are standard supply voltages, with 115,200,230,460V the rated voltages for motors & welding equipment.

What is even more annoying is for some equipment the user has to add transformers (buck/boost) to allow the oddball equipment to function on the power supplied by the PoCo.

 

[u2slow]

There are dual rated motors and welders that will accomodate 220-240v and 50 or 60 Hz. This is getting more common.

Fwiw, my 16A/240v USA-made compressor came with a factory 6-20p molded cord. It's worked fine for 20years. I wouldn't get too hung up on the HP rating if it holds on a 15 or 20A breaker. Jmho.

 

[glennm]

well, I’m confused now. I thought I could leave the compressor direct wired and install a receptacle to accept the plug on the bs?

 

[F-22]

Do these things really make a difference? TBH I do not know what the actual voltage is in my country (Slovenia, EU), some call it 220, some 230, some sockets have 240 written on... I assume devices are made for 230V and can handle +-5%, maybe even +-10%.
About the same deal with the 50Hz vs 60Hz frequency. I think, at least for workshop tools, that everything is designed to handle the differences. And with tech stuff like chargers that use DC, I think those can usually handle everything from 100V to 240V...

 

[mike93lx]

well, I’m confused now. I thought I could leave the compressor direct wired and install a receptacle to accept the plug on the bs?

It would function, but I wouldn't want them to have a chance at kicking on at the same time.

I'd be inclined to do it in my shop, but I would probably just put both on plugs so there is no chance of simultaneous running

 

[theoldwizard1]

well, I’m confused now. I thought I could leave the compressor direct wired and install a receptacle to accept the plug on the bs?

To be "legal" you would have to install a new circuit (breaker and wire).

 

[mike93lx]

To be "legal" you would have to install a new circuit (breaker and wire).

"legal" is a terrible word to use here.

Code compliance and legality are not the same. Using quotes doesn't make it clear to someone inexperienced.

A plug would satisfy the requirement as well as long as the right hp rating is used

 

[wyliesdiesels]

3hp? Are plugs derated that much?

6-50 is a 50 amp setup.

50 amps is ~ 16 hp.

how do you figure? a 10HP motor has an FLC of 50a

yes a nema 6-50 is rated for about 3HP. go read the specs

 

[mike93lx]

how do you figure? a 10HP motor has an FLC of 50a

yes a nema 6-50 is rated for about 3HP. go read the specs

You mean a 1hp motor doesn't draw exactly 746 watts?? Shenanigans

/s

 

[alfredeneuman]

50 amps is ~ 16 hp.

That is assuming it's a DC motor with no losses due to friction, etc.
No machine is 100% efficient. Otherwise perpetual motion would exist.

 

[Sumboodie]

That is assuming it's a DC motor with no losses due to friction, etc.
No machine is 100% efficient. Otherwise perpetual motion would exist.

1hp ~ 746 watts. 1 amp at 240v is 240 watts.
1hp at 240v is about 3 amps.

At least I think that's right. It's 0230 and I'm tired.

 

[alfredeneuman]

1hp at 240v is about 3 amps.

How many motors have you wired using that criteria?
9A by the NEC.
When you wake up it will still be the same.

 

[u2slow]

Nameplate values of the actual machine you have are more useful than a theoretical table value. I know NEC is contrary to this, but not all codes see it this way.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Nameplate values of the actual machine you have are more useful than a theoretical table value. I know NEC is contrary to this, but not all codes see it this way.

However, any wiring or circuit components need to be based off NEC code not nameplate amps

 

[u2slow]

^ NEC doesn't apply to some of us... and some can make practical decisions without rules.